Episode 202- Was This Another Stephen King Killing Spree?  
Also Available OnPodcast TranscriptGun Lawyer Episode 202

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

dispensary, new jersey, gun rights, rage, carry, gun, pharmacy, guns, knives, law, firearm, copycat, issued, give, state, pistol, call, lakewood, place, radical ideology

SPEAKERS

Evan Nappen, Speaker 3

Evan Nappen 00:16

I’m Evan Nappen, and welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, you’ve probably been seeing in the news the latest what they like to call “school shooting”. It’s always amazing how the timing of these things go. You know, we can speculate all day long about why that is, and I’m not going to do that here. But I do want to point out that you can look at the history of school shootings, and you might be surprised to see where the idea kind of originally took root and became a fixture, if you will, in America. For that, you need to only go to Stephen King. That’s right. Stephen King wrote a novel called Rage, which was written under a pseudonym that he used, Richard Bachman, but it is Stephen King. This book was published in 1977 and then it was put into another book of his collected works in 1985 known as the Bachmann Books. And what that novel described was a school shooting, and this novel has been associated with actual school shootings. It’s pretty much documented. Then from the actual school shootings, where you can document his book Rage, are all the copycats that we’re still experiencing to this day. You can look and see that this epidemic, so-called, at least that’s what the media likes to play it as, goes back to Stephen King and the novel Rage.

Evan Nappen 02:21

In this novel, a high school senior has grievances, whatever, and ends up killing a teacher and all kinds of other things happen, even a hostage situation. So, many times in the school shootings, you also end up seeing the hostage issues take place. All this, you know, can find roots here, so much so that even Wiki, for that matter, admits that the plot of Rage vaguely resembles actual high school shootings and incidents of hostage taking. It’s true that King finally said, quit printing it and took it out of print. He took it out because he realized, I guess, the issues that have come from it. You know, he’s anti-gun. He is a gun rights oppressor, you know, and all that. He’s disavowed it and what have you, butut still, it’s out there. It’s out there.

Evan Nappen 03:38

Here’s a little list of some of its impact, by the way. So, this one guy, Jeffrey Lyne Cox, a senior at San Gabriel High School in California took a semi-automatic rifle to school in April of 1988. Just three years after the Bachmann Book anthology got republished. Cox held a humanities class of 60 students hostage, and it went on and on. A friend of Cox said that he was inspired by the novel Rage. Then, in 1989, Dustin Pierce, a senior at Jackson County High School in McGee, Kentucky, armed himself with

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a shotgun and two handguns. He took a history classroom hostage with a nine hour standoff. And guess what the police found among his possessions in his bedroom? You guessed it. A copy of Rage.

Evan Nappen 04:48

Then on September 11, 1991, Ryan Harris went into a math class (in Stevens High School, Rapid City, South Dakota) with a sawed-off shotgun and ordered the teacher to leave. Harris had been inspired by, guess what? Rage. He ordered pizza and cigarettes, which were delivered, and he wanted a million dollars. He fired a total of 10 shots. Then in 1993, Scott Pennington, a student at East Carter High School in Grayson, Kentucky, took a .38 revolver owned by his father and fatally shot his English teacher. He then shot and killed the school’s custodian and held the class hostage. And guess what? He had written an essay on Rage, and he was upset that the teacher gave him a C grade on his essay on Rage. In 1997, Michael Carneal shot eight fellow students, three of them fatally at a prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. And guess what he had in his locker? A copy of Rage.

Evan Nappen 05:55

They even talk about another school shooting where they compared it to Rage. Apparently the shooter, Barry Loukaitis, shocked his classmates said that he said, “This sure beats algebra, doesn’t it?” They said that was a line erroneously reported from Rage. They say that no such line appears, except there is a line in Rage that says, “this sure beats panty raids.” Oh, this sure beats algebra versus this sure beats panty raids, which is an actual line from the book Rage. But no, no , no. Rage wasn’t responsible there. No, not at all. I mean, look at this. Then what do you see from this? You see all the media coverage, all the hype. We get copycat after copycat after copycat. And what happens? Oh, well, the antis never miss a chance to do a blood dance to try to take away our gun rights and oppress our gun rights. They immediately call for the non-sequitur of gun rights oppression, which has nothing to do with it. I mean, they may as well when they call for their gun rights oppression, they talk about, oh, we need to stop “gun violence”, right? It’s always “gun violence”, and we need common sense gun safety laws.

Evan Nappen 07:30

Oh, really? Well, would you be in favor of ending book violence, book violence? Maybe we need common sense book safety laws. Do you think that’s good? I mean that’s the First Amendment. I don’t really want to see the First Amendment and those rights oppressed, but they have no problem when it comes to the Second Amendment and trying to blame the object. Yet here we have what is pretty much a documented history of the mayhem caused by King’s writings. Hey, I guess it’s the society we live in. We need to have free flow of ideas, just like we need to have guns. There are people out there that do bad things. But why does it seem so difficult to blame the person all the time? If you want to go around blaming guns, maybe I want to go around blaming books that can be documented to the inspiration for what we see going on.

Evan Nappen 08:41

Hey, here’s a little follow up on why it’s nice to live in America, my friends. Because you see, we have the Second Amendment that protects our rights. Recently, as you may recall, we discussed on one of the recent shows about the Massachusetts Supreme Court finding that switchblades, what we call automatic knives, are protected arms under the Second Amendment and invalidated Massachusetts

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ban on switchblades. Well, that is very good for us, and we’ve made great headway in terms of fighting knife laws.

Evan Nappen 09:24

However, just recently, on August 23, 2024, in Germany, guess what? There was a mass knife stabbing. In this mass knife stabbing, three people were stabbed to death and eight others wounded, ironically, at a festival in Solingen, Germany. Now, what’s ironic about it, if you know knives, Solingen is actually one of the capitals. One of the top, highly regarded places for making fine steel and cutlery. In a report from the Associated Press, they quoted saying, “federal prosecutors said that [the suspect] shared the radical ideology of the Islamic State extremist group — and was acting on those beliefs when he stabbed his victims repeatedly from behind in the head and upper body.” It’s also reported, by the way, that this person, under German law, shouldn’t even have been in the country. Apparently this news source, Deutsche Welle, said, “Authorities had planned to deport this suspected attacker to Bulgaria last year, but this did not take place because the man had not been seen at his refugee accommodation when officials tried to do so.” (https://www.nraila.org/articles/20240903/never-enough- german-government-pushes-knife-control-in-wake-of-terror-attack)

Evan Nappen 10:59

So, here you have this radical ideology and someone who shouldn’t be in the country, but what does Germany’s Social Democratic Party Chancellor, Olaf Scholz, say? He said the Government would be pursuing new knife controls. Of course, we have got to blame the knives. Well, you know, can’t blame guns there. They weren’t used. So, we’ve got to blame knives. It’s obviously the knife’s fault. It’s not this radical ideology and someone who shouldn’t be in the country being there. It’s knives. So, the Chancellor said, we’re now going to tighten up weapons regulations, in particular with the regard to the use of knives. And what are the knife laws that they’re going to do now? What are they doing? Well, according to the Deutsche Welle publication, the Interior Minister, Nancy Faeser, called for the law to be changed so that only blades of six centimeters, which in inches is 2.36 inches, would be allowed to be carried in public, rather than the current 12 centimeters, which is under five inches. An exception would be made for household knives in their original packaging. How nice, how nice. And switchblades would be banned all together. Like that had anything to do with that incident. But there they go. Let’s find some inanimate object to blame, to deflect. That’s Germany doing that.

Evan Nappen 12:50

This is what we have to be vigilant about here in America. Thankfully, the Second Amendment and our knife liberty movement is being successful because the focus at the moment, by the Second Amendment rights oppressors, is on guns. And so, this is a great opportunity, and we’re making tremendous headway. Next, of course, is removal of the FSA, the Federal Switchblade Act so we’d have no national life knife law whatsoever. There’s only a handful of states that even ban automatic knives, very few, and they’re commonly owned, as the Massachusetts Supreme Court noted. A lot of that common ownership is because of the efforts we’ve made in getting rid of knife laws. But remember, what happens there in Europe can happen here. The UK’s pulled this same stunt. You know, we just got to give the people something. So, what do we give them? Since we can’t address the real issues. Oh, a knife ban. Knife ban. How nice. It’s unbelievable.

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Evan Nappen 14:10

We constantly are struggling with these non sequitur type anti-rights oppression, and we’re constantly fighting. One of the best ways to fight it is with knowledge. When it comes to knowledge, especially in the DPRNJ, which is the Democratic People’s Republic of New Jersey, you need to make sure that you belong to the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They are the premier gun rights advocate group in New Jersey. They’re an umbrella organization of the gun clubs, but there are individual memberships. You need to be a member. It’s very reasonable to join. By being a member, you will get the email updates and a fantastic, the best, printed newsletter on gun rights in New Jersey. You will be helping to fight in the courts as they fight and litigate on the most pressing issues of gun rights oppression in New Jersey. They are the group. Make sure you belong to the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. anjrpc.org. Join today and be part of the solution.

Evan Nappen 15:38

The other important thing for knowledge is getting my book, which I will shamelessly promote. It’s called New Jersey Gun Law, and it is the Bible of Jersey gun law. I know that many of my listeners have copies, and they are smart enough to never lend them, because you’ll never get it back if you do. This book is over 500 pages. It’s 120 topics, and it’s all question and answer. It will be your roadmap to understanding New Jersey’s insane matrix of gun rights oppression and traps that are laid for the unsuspecting so that you don’t become the next GOFU. When you get the book, which you can get at my website, EvanNappen.com, when you go there and get the book, make sure you scan the front cover, that QR code, and get in my free subscriber database, which goes nowhere. It stays private. I don’t sell it. I don’t release it. But you will get updates to keep the book current, and you’ll have free, free access to the archives for any past updates and information. The updates themselves are free. You can’t beat it. It’s the indispensable tool for a New Jersey gun owner.

Evan Nappen 16:57

In addition to knowledge and protecting our rights, you need to have a place to shoot. So, let me give you my highest recommendation, which is WeShoot, which is an indoor range in Lakewood, New Jersey. You can go to their website, which is weshootusa.com. They have beautiful photography. You will enjoy their website, and you will see they offer everything you need. They are a state of the art place to shoot, which is a great resource. They’re conveniently located in Lakewood, New Jersey, right off the Parkway. They offer courses and training. It’s where I got my CCARE certificate to get my carry. It’s where my son got his, my brother got his, and on and on. You can get yours there, too. They have a great shop. They sell all the accouterments and equipment that you would want to enjoy the world of shooting and be able to defend yourself and your loved ones. Check out WeShoot at weshootusa.com. The premier range is right in Central Jersey in Lakewood.

Evan Nappen 18:24

So, I was thinking about a little idea that I had, and I want to put it out the first time on Gun Lawyer. We are coming up to the election, and as if I need to say this, but I’m going to say it, you better be registered to vote and make sure you vote. Our future more than ever, and not just on guns, folks, but on every other aspect of our life, our country, our sovereignty, our wealth, our liberties. Everything is at stake in this election, and you need to vote. And to vote, you need to be registered. I believe you have until October 15 to register in New Jersey. (https://nj.gov/state/elections/voter-registration.shtml) So,

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time is time is a ticking. If you’re not registered to vote, make sure you register, and then make your vote. Now, You know, President Trump actually has a shot at winning New Jersey. If those that love liberty come out and vote, he will win New Jersey. Make sure you’re registered.

Evan Nappen 19:39

Now, one of the things that struck me is that we have this law that was put in, a Federal law, known as the National Voter Registration Act of 1993. (https://www.justice.gov/crt/national-voter-registration-act- 1993-nvra) It was signed by good old Bill Clinton. It’s also known as the motor voter act or the motor voter law. The NVRA or motor voter law attempts to simplify voter registration by having folks who apply for or renew a driver’s license or if they apply for public assistance, register to vote. So, people getting public assistance, people getting driver’s license, to be registered to vote. The law requires states to register applicants and to use a Federal voter registration form and then prohibits states from removing registered voters unless the voter rolls contain certain criteria. So, here we have this motor voter act that, in effect, is a voter registration drive. Literally, drive through voter registration via driver’s licenses and public assistance.

Evan Nappen 21:10

Well, I have a law that I’m proposing.. Now, I’m not a legislator, but I hope a legislator picks up on this. As the current law is called the “Motor Voter Act”, ours should be called the “Reloader Voter Act”. Under the “Reloader Voter Act”, when you apply for a firearm permit or license, you are registered to vote in the same way as when you apply for a driver’s license. Imagine that. When you go to purchase a firearm, there’s that federal gun form that you have got to go through. Well, guess what? We’re also going to do voter registration of everybody who buys a gun or gets a license for a gun. Now that is something that I think Republicans could get behind – the Reloader Voter Act. I haven’t got the details. I don’t write legislation. I think this is an idea worth considering, and I bet you do, too.

Evan Nappen 22:27

So, we get my favorite thing, which is the Ask Evan letters. I’ve got some really good letters. And of course, we’re not going to forget the GOFU. This is from Kenneth. Kenneth writes, regarding dispensary. You made a comment on a recent podcast that a pharmacy was a sensitive area based on the fact that the Carry Killer Law includes “dispensary” in the definition. The term “pharmacy” is nowhere to be found in 4769. In addition, NJAC 13:39, which regulates pharmacists, pharmacies and the dispensing of prescription drugs, never uses the term “dispensary”. The only law or regulation utilizing the term is in relation to cannabis. My final argument that carry would not be banned is that a “health care facility” is defined in 44:5-2a. as a facility for “diagnosis or treatment of human disease, pain, injury, deformity or physical condition”. A pharmacy does not diagnose or treat per those relevant definitions. Based on all this, I’m curious how you came to your conclusion. I hope you address it in an upcoming podcast.

Evan Nappen 24:00

Kenneth, I’m happy to address it, and I’m glad that you raise it. I’m glad that you’re thinking about these things. It is very good and appreciated. So, where is this coming from? And why would I say this? I’ll tell you why. Because we have to go to the Carry Killer bill, and that is what we just mentioned as a bill number, but it’s been passed. So, it actually has a law number, a statutory citation, and it’s under N.J.S.

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2C:58-4.6.58:4.6. In that statute, we find the “sensitive places”, the laundry list of places that the Government in New Jersey enacted in their hissy fit after the passage of Bruen to try to make carry permits that have to be issued useless. And, of course, this is one of the key areas that the state Association, ANJRPC, is fighting. They have made great progress in that fight, and it’s ongoing.

Evan Nappen 25:06

So, where does the “no pharmacy” idea come from? Well, you will find that under Number 21. Now let me read you the sensitive place under 21. It includes all the following: a “health care facility, including but not limited to a general hospital, special hospital, psychiatric hospital, public health center, diagnostic center, treatment center, rehabilitation center, extended care facility, skilled nursing home, nursing home. I can’t believe they put both. I guess that’s the unskilled nursing home or something, but whatever. Intermediate care facility, tuberculosis hospital, chronic disease hospital, maternity hospital, outpatient clinic, dispensary, assisted living center, home health care agency, residential treatment facility, residential health care facility, medical office or ambulatory care facility.”

Evan Nappen 26:06

So, there in the healthcare facility is this incredible list of everything they could possibly come up with to jam it to us. And there’s that word “dispensary”. Now it is true that the gun law, that gun law, does not define dispensary. That’s absolutely true. It doesn’t say it. It’s also true that they didn’t use the word “pharmacy” there. They use the word “dispensary”. So, Kenneth raises a question about it. Since they didn’t use “pharmacy”, since the definition isn’t really anywhere even in the Administrative Code which regulates pharmacy, and since we only see this reference to “dispensary” found in legalized marijuana, why would this apply at all to the pharmacy part of CVS, let’s say, or Rite Aid? I’ll tell you why. The reason is because the word “dispensary” is not defined very clearly. And because there’s no statutory definition of what the boundaries are or are not for “dispensary”, I want every one of my listeners to be safe and not become the test case.

Evan Nappen 27:49

Unless you want to be the test case. You know, call me after you get charged with the felony level offense and your entire future and gun rights and freedom and liberty are at stake. Absolutely, I’ll be happy to defend you. As a matter of fact, some of the things here that that Kenneth raises, I would happily argue in defending you, but I’ll tell you what the state’s going to do. This is where you have to know what the state’s going to do. The state’s going to say, well, Your Honor, dispensary is undefined. It’s not defined. So, we’ve got to go with what the plain meaning is and what the legislative intent was behind it. They will go to dictionaries, my friend. They will go to dictionaries. What is a dispensary? Since the court is going to have to determine what it means, what does that mean to a citizen? And what would that understanding be, since it isn’t statutorily addressed with specificity?

Evan Nappen 28:58

Well, if we go to Merriam Webster Dictionary, you’ll see that a dispensary is a noun, and it’s “a place where medicine or medical or dental treatment is dispensed.” Ah, medicine is dispensed. Then, if we go to the Cambridge dictionary, it says that a dispensary is “a place where medicines are prepared and given out, often in a hospital.” Gee, does the pharmacy at CVS or Rite Aid prepare and give out medicine there? Under Merriam Webster’s, is that a place where medicine might be dispensed? Let’s

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not stop there. Let’s go to dictionary.com and how does dictionary.com define dispensary? “A place where something is dispensed, especially medicines.” Well, gee, three different dictionaries seem to all say that what you and I would regard as the pharmacy part of CVS and Rite Aid in your local drugstore meets the definition commonly understood as to what a “dispensary” is. So, that Kenneth, my friend, is why you must not get jammed up on a sensitive place violation by pushing that issue, unless you want to, but I don’t think you do. I can tell you what we’re going to be hit with. I just read it and that’s where the fight will fall. So, be careful. Be very careful.

Evan Nappen 30:58

Now I have a question from Rob. Rob says, regarding a PTC question. Hi, Evan. Please settle a debate amongst my friends. We all have our PTC and our question is about giving law enforcement a list of firearms we intend to carry. Were we supposed to turn in an S.P. 182a.? Three of us were not asked for it and were issued our PTC. One was required to submit it. He was also the last one to get his PTC. We all went through the NJ State Police. Thanks for your input. You have a great show. P.S., what kind of cigars do you like as we’re all smokers, too.

Evan Nappen 31:41

Oh, I’d love to deal with that cigar question, but I’ll save that. Let’s talk about the list. So, when you apply for your carry, they ask on the application itself for what gun you want to carry. Now, the training of CCARE that we got through, when we got it all changed. We with the association right fighting for this, tests core competency, and it’s not gun specific. But in the old days, prior to the change, prior to Bruen, prior to the Carry Killer law, the training was gun specific, and the judges went, you know, wild on that and mandated specific guns, and only this gun. All that’s gone. So, as long as you can demonstrate, and have demonstrated with CCARE that you have core competency, then the guns you can carry are simply those that you either have put on the actual carry permit application that you filled out, or if you wish to add guns, even after your carry permit has been issued, you can do the S.P.182a. and simply submit the form. There’s no approval of guns. It’s just giving the State notice of the guns that you may wish to carry.

Evan Nappen 33:10

Now, the only downside is it does create kind of a de facto registration of your guns, because you’re submitting a list with serial numbers of guns. But if your guns are already Jersey papered with a pistol purchase form, handgun purchase form, etc, then they’re already “registered”. So, it doesn’t really matter. You’re just putting them on the list of the guns you want to carry, and your training does not go to that. Now, I’ve actually heard recently that somebody submitted a list, believe it or not, of a number of guns, and they put on the list a .22 long rifle firing pistol or handgun. I don’t know the specific model for a gun they may wish to carry, and the issuing authority, my understanding, is the issuing authority said you cannot use a .22 for self-defense. Well, folks, that is absolute, well, I think the legal term is Bullshit. In New Jersey, an air pistol is a handgun and a firearm. If you want to carry a BB pistol for self- defense, you can do it. No less a .22. A .22 can be a fine gun. No problem for self-defense.

Evan Nappen 34:38

Now look, I understand. Most folks would advise you nothing smaller than a .38, whether it’s a .380 or .38 cal., and I know all that. But here’s the point. A hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .44

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Magnum. If the .22 is what you shoot accurately and competently, if you can defend yourself with it and put more than one shot where you need to put it, you’re good to go. There is no prohibitor on your caliber of choice. Since you can carry two guns in New Jersey, many folks might want to carry a small .22 as a backup, even though it’s not their primary handgun. All that’s fine, if that’s what you wish to do. So, the list is your list. You put on there the guns you want to carry. But that’s it. It’s not a requirement, unless there are guns you wish to carry that were not put on your initial or renewal of your carry permit application itself. And that’s how it works. Now, if some local town is misunderstanding that and requiring the S.P.182a., well, that’s really not correct. But even if they do, you have to pick your battles, of course. So, if they want to list on that too, and you’re getting your carry permit, oh, well, who cares, really? I mean, okay, if you want to make a point about it, fine. The real problem is if they want to examine your guns that you’re putting on it and then denying you your choice of a firearm. That’s different. Because you have a right to carry whatever. If you want to carry a Smith and Wesson 500 magnum or if you want to carry a Daisy BB pistol, it’s your choice. That’s where the freedom is on that.

Evan Nappen 36:35

So, our favorite little segment here. What is the GOFU? That’s the Gun Owner Fuck Up, and that is where you get to learn about an expensive lesson for free. So, you get it on the cheap. Today’s GOFU is really a wraparound to the first story about that school shooting. You know, the Stephen King copycat-inspired killing sprees. Maybe they should call it that instead of school shootings. Maybe it would get more to the history. At least the history of it could be revealed every time these things happen. But, hey, the GOFU though is what has happened now. Not just the atrocity of the crime committed by this 14 year old. Notice that I don’t call it a tragedy. It’s not a tragedy. It’s an atrocity. It’s a crime that was committed by a 14 year old. But what happened now, the father of the 14 year old has now been charged with Murder and a host of other felony charges because he gave the firearm, the modern sporting rifle, to his son as a gift. They’re bringing criminal charges, including four counts of Involuntary Manslaughter and two counts of Second Degree Murder and eight counts of Cruelty to Children. The father is getting jammed up, too.

Evan Nappen 38:21

Now this GOFU is a GOFU because, especially if you’re in New Jersey, New Jersey has a narrow exemption when it comes to allowing minors, or even your children, to access firearms. They can access firearms as long as they are under your direct supervision, folks, direct supervision. You cannot and should not even give your kid a BB gun, because that’s a firearm in New Jersey. If you give your child any gun, your son or daughter any gun, it is a crime. You cannot give them that gun. Okay? They can use the gun under your direct supervision, but not possess it in their room, hang it on their wall, or use it whenever they feel like it. No less, any other firearm, okay?

Evan Nappen 39:24

If you as a parent don’t understand that and you allow access to any gun that is not within that exemption in New Jersey, I can well see if that son or daughter causes a problem of any sort, it doesn’t have to be, you know, a Stephen King type killing spree, copycat deal, but anything, you can be brought in over those acts. This is now trending, because they did it for and they went after the parents on that other shooting. Going after the parents is the new approach. So, as parents, particularly in New

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Jersey, that potential liability is really there, be careful. Do not allow access to your firearms by minors unless they’re under your direct supervision at all times.

Evan Nappen 40:32

This is Evan Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens.

Speaker 3 40:40

Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo music New York, New York. Reach us by emailing Evan@gun.lawyer. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state.

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Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E202_Transcript
About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.

Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets.

Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News.

As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists.

He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America.

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