Episode 201-Pigs With Wings Spotted In Massachusetts 
Also Available OnPodcast TranscriptGun Lawyer Episode 201

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

knives, massachusetts, knife, law, neumann, new jersey, gun, court, carry, switchblade, pocket knife, great, second amendment rights, rights, compensator, state, citing, establishment, guns, ban

SPEAKERS

Evan Nappen, Speaker 3

Evan Nappen 00:17

I’m Evan Nappen, and welcome Gun Lawyer. So, very recently, I received reports of pigs with wings in Massachusetts. Now, why is that? Well, that is because the Massachusetts Supreme Court struck down the switchblade knife ban in Massachusetts, what we like to call taxachusetts, as unconstitutional under the Second Amendment. This is just great news. First of all, it’s Massachusetts. I mean that alone doing that. Second, it is really showing the power of the trifecta, of course, Heller, McDonald, and Bruen and its impact. (District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)) (McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 742 (2010)) (New York State Rifle & Pistol Ass’n. v. Bruen, 142 S.Ct. 2III (2022)) It lays the groundwork, of course, in Massachusetts for even further liberty to be restored. It’s really exciting to see this happen. I want to go into a little bit of depth about it, because it also applies in being instructive to other jurisdictions, and I think it demonstrates why bringing the case in New Jersey to get rid of New Jersey’s switchblade ban would be an excellent thing to do. It is something where, if we can get, we being the pro-rights folks, can get a unanimous Supreme Court decision in Massachusetts to legalize switchblades, I think that says a lot of things can change that have been burdening our Second Amendment rights for a long time.

Evan Nappen 02:34

Remember, the Second Amendment is not the right to keep and bear guns. It’s the right to keep and bear arms, and knives are arms. The test of the constitutionality for a law that deals with a prohibition on arms has been pronounced under the Bruen decision, and its impact is precisely what we’re seeing here. So, the name of the case is Canjura. (Commonwealth of Massachusetts vs. David E. Canjura, SJC-13432) What really makes it great as a challenge here in this Massachusetts case is this was an actual guy, David Canjura, who was arrested and charged with switchblade possession in 2020. Okay, so this is what we call an actual case in controversy. This is an actual criminal defendant. This isn’t a civil action where you bring a declaratory judgment, and you ask the court to rule on constitutionality. This is a guy who was busted in Boston for possessing a switchblade and charged under that Massachusetts law, who said, hey, you’re violating my Second Amendment rights with this charge.

Evan Nappen 04:09

He was, believe it or not, represented by the Public Defender, and they did a really good job. It was the Committee for Public Counsel Services, Public Defender Division, which were his attorneys. Now he

Page – 1 – of 8

was joined in the challenge in Massachusetts by other interested parties, of course, that filed briefs including Knife Rights, but I want to give credit to the Public Defender for utilizing the Second Amendment rights and using it to fight this type of criminal charge. We need all the Public Defenders to use the Second Amendment in defense of weapons charges. You can see what the results will be. In this case, the fellow here had this knife. Apparently, the knife he had was an orange firearm-shaped knife with a spring-assisted blade. It must have been some interesting, imported knife, most likely, that was a switchblade, but we would call it an automatic knife that happened to be in this shape. The shape of a gun didn’t mean a thing. It’s a switchblade knife which was banned in Mass. and no longer is.

Evan Nappen 05:55

So, it was a 24-page decision, and it goes through the Bruen history. Now Bruen, when you challenge it, you have to show what is called text, history and tradition. The Government has the burden of proving that these types of laws prohibiting knives, in this case switchblades, basically existed at the time of the Second Amendment. They have to demonstrate it, and the burden is on them to demonstrate it. The other thing that has to be shown is whether the weapon is not what they’re calling dangerous and unusual. So, something that must be in common use. The Court has to get those issues wrestled with in order to test the constitutionality and that’s what the Court did. What makes it really interesting, particularly, is in the opinion the Court does, and this is how it has to work by the way, explore the history of switchblades and were they even considered arms? Are they arms? Were switchblades even coming under the definition of arms in the right to keep and bear arms?

Evan Nappen 07:25

So, in the decision, one of the things that the court cites, and I’ll read you exactly word for word what it says in the opinion. It says the first known folding knives have been found in Roman sites dating back to the first century. Then it says, “See G. Neumann, Swords and Blades of the American Revolution (1973)”. Now let me tell you right here. George Neumann was a personal friend of mine, and I miss George Neumann. He was a wealth of knowledge. He was the expert in the United States on not just swords and blades of the American Revolution, but all weapons and accouterments. Really all the items of the American Revolution and Revolutionary War, soldiers and such. He was a member of the Forks of the Delaware Arms Collectors, and he was there for years and years. I’ve known him since I was 17, basically, going to that show. George actually helped me with various things, personally. Rev War items. He helped identify a Revolutionary War musket that I have. George was just a great guy, and he was so influential. His book was utilized, and is being utilized here, in demonstrating the history to regain our Second Amendment liberties that have been stolen from us. So, his impact was not only to what he and I and others love, the history of weapons and the collecting of the various weapons, but also his impact was even to the law. He is even cited in the Heller decision as well on his works as to what were the weapons of the American Revolution.

Evan Nappen 09:37

The Court of Massachusetts cites the Heller decision, citing George Neumann, and they say further, “Knives and daggers were personal necessities to the early American.” Then the Court even goes on. “Of the many varieties of knives, none has been a more constant and enduring companion to man than the pocketknife.” They’re citing Delgado here. (State of Oregon v. Delgado, 298 OR. 395 (1984)). Now, Delgado was the Oregon Supreme Court case back in 1984, folks, on switchblades. In 1984, well

Page – 2 – of 8

before Heller was even a dream in somebody’s head. The Oregon Supreme Court in effect legalized switchblades in a beautifully written Second Amendment decision by the Oregon Supreme Court. And that’s why you saw the beginnings of the American modern automatic knife manufacturing taking place in Oregon, like Benchmade and others, because the knife law there was constitutionally protected and identified. Here, Delgado is being relied upon by the Massachusetts Supreme Court.

Evan Nappen 10:58

As it was, as well, with Neumann in another case called Kessler (State of Oregon vs. Randy Kessler) that came out of Oregon by the Heller court, which was, of course, the landmark decision in the U.S. Supreme Court on our Second Amendment rights by the late great Justice Scalia. The Massachusetts Court goes further quoting, and this is all intertwined with Neumann and Delgado. “As America developed and its frontiers moved inland, the custom of wearing belt knives waned in coastal areas. The result was a great increase in folding knives to the point where they became almost universal accessories.” Citing Neumann. “Contemporary sources referred to this category of knives by a variety of names, including ‘pocketknives,’ ‘jackknives,’ ‘clasp knives,’ ‘spring knives,’ and ‘folding knives.'” Again, citing Neumann. “During the time of the Revolutionary War, folding knives were so popular that ‘[o]rders from New York, New Hampshire, and Massachusetts actually listed them as required accessories.” Again, citing George Neumann. “Long- bladed folding jackknives were commonly used for fighting, although some were also used for farm work. Smaller pocketknives were very popular for hunting, fighting and as tools (depicting “Three different small knives that were commonly used between 1750 and 1850). In addition to the pocketknife and jackknife, folding daggers also became more common in the nineteenth century and were particularly popular in the United States.”

Evan Nappen 12:54

So, here we see the Court recognizing in detail the historical significance of knives. Even to think that the Court is finally honestly looking at our American history when it comes to our proud tradition with knives, is extremely encouraging, and here you see its impact. The Court makes it clear that switchblades are arms, why they are arms, and why they fall under this. Again, they talk about, for example, Neumann depicting an English pocketknife, circa 1750 to 1840, featuring a steel base spring that helps to lock the blade in an open position. Then they talk about depicting a pocketknife with an outside steel spring mechanism, and it’s held by a bottom pin. Then a French-Spanish pocketknife with a spring opening mechanism, what we would call a switchblade today. All these things go back to the history, and that history is what secures our rights in these challenges. So, history is incredibly important when it comes to our Second Amendment rights. That’s why history, text and tradition is the test, and that’s what the courts must consider. And here the Massachusetts Supreme Court did exactly that.

Evan Nappen 14:28

Now, additionally, the Court had to find that these were not only arms and bearable arms, but also that they were in common use. Common use is yet another demonstration that the Court must, in effect, be provided with and then make a determination. The Court on seeing this, saw that, of course, it is tremendously in common use. I want to tell you that one of the reasons that it is in common use has to do with the modern knife liberty movement. I’m proud to say that the modern knife liberty movement started essentially in 2010. I’m going to tell you right now, and I’m not just trying to toot my own horn

Page – 3 – of 8

here, folks, but I’m proud of it. I helped spearhead the knife liberty movement in 2010, working closely with Knife Rights, and we were able to get New Hampshire’s ban on switchblade, dagger, Dirk and stilettos repealed in 2010. That was the first modern repeal of a knife law in America in 2010. The story is a fascinating story about how we succeeded in doing that, and you can read that whole story online for free if you go to the website, knifelawonline.com, knifelawonline.com. You can read the history of New Hampshire’s knife rights movement, and you’ll find the article that I wrote in 2013. I got permission from Blade Magazine, the company to reprint it. You can read the article that explained how we were able to convince the legislature in New Hampshire, which by the way, was all Democrat. A Democrat House, Democrat Senate, and Democrat Governor. When we repealed the ban on switchblades, dagger, Dirk and stiletto in New Hampshire, there was not a single vote against it.

Evan Nappen 17:10

That miracle in New Hampshire was then capitalized on brilliantly by Knife Rights and their success has been astounding. Knife Rights has put forward 49 bills repealing knife bans in 31 states. Because of all the repeals that have taken place since 2010, there are only a small handful of states that even ban switchblades anymore. I think the number is something like six or eight states. That’s it. The majority of the country now no longer has a switchblade knife ban, and you can add Massachusetts to that list. These knives are in common use now throughout America because of the knife liberty movement, and it is a factor, very important factor, in seeing the laws overturned. As we speak now, Knife Rights is fighting a federal court action to finally get rid of the Federal Switchblade Act, which restricts a certain degree in the interstate commerce in these. You know, it was passed in the ’50s. It’s archaic, and it needs to go. Why should we have this national law when so few states even have any prohibitions whatsoever? They’re falling like timber over the Second Amendment challenges. So, it’s very exciting, and it’s just great to see, especially in a state like Massachusetts, where the law against possession and carry of automatic knives has been found unconstitutional.

Evan Nappen 19:23

Now, if you ask yourself, what about New Jersey? Well, New Jersey’s knife laws are still ripe for challenge. If you want to understand New Jersey knife laws, I extensively explain them in my book. So, I will now shamelessly plug my book, which is New Jersey Gun Law. You can get your copy at EvanNappen.com. It’s over 50 pages with 120 topics, all Question and Answer explained, and that includes knife laws in Jersey. What knives can you carry? What is the law on knives? Are there blade length restrictions, etc. I tell you all about it and what you need to know. By understanding our current law, you also understand better when the challenge is made, and we will see it, I’m sure. We are daily seeing challenges throughout America to these infringements that have been on our rights for so long. If you get a copy of my book, and I hope you all have a copy, make sure you scan the front cover, the QR code. Get to my private subscriber base, and you’ll be able to access the archives for all the updates. I’ll be sending you email alerts of any new developments in law. So, get your copy of New Jersey Gun Law today at EvanNappen.com.

Evan Nappen 20:51

I also want to mention, of course, our good friends at WeShoot. WeShoot is an indoor range in Lakewood, very convenient, right off the Parkway. They are a great resource, a great place to shoot, and that is where I personally got my CCARE certification. So did my brother, my son and so many

Page – 4 – of 8

others. Everybody loves WeShoot for a good reason. It is a just a great range with great people. They will treat you like family. Anything you need in terms of your training, in terms of equipment, they have it. They are first rate, first rate. Check out WeShoot. You can go to their website at weshootusa.com. They have really excellent photography. I mean, they really do. They pride themselves on that. Check out their website. Go down to WeShoot, mention my name and watch what happens. No joke, man. My name has like some currency down there, I guess. But you’ll see. So, WeShoot is the range for you in Lakewood, New Jersey.

Evan Nappen 22:11

Of course, I want to mention our good friends at the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. You see they are our state gun rights, premier gun rights, protector. They are currently in the courts fighting the Carry Killer bill, the so-called assault firearm law, and the large capacitor magazine law. The battle is ongoing, as we speak, and they are making great progress. I’m confident we’ll see them take other steps, hopefully, toward getting rid of New Jersey’s knife laws. The Association is dynamic. They’re there in Trenton. They’re in the fight. They’re also in the legislature with a full time paid lobbyist, keeping an eye on those scoundrels down there, letting us know about the shenanigans, so that you can be informed, and you can let your voice be heard. You’ll get a great newsletter and email alerts when you’re a member of the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. Just go to anjrpc.org and join today. Be part of the solution.

Evan Nappen 23:25

So, I’ve gotten some great questions. I love the questions from listeners, and I want to share with you these questions today. This is from David, and it says, regarding no gun signs. Hello, Evan. First, I’d like to thank you for your many years of advocacy and hard work to preserve our 2A rights. I’m a proud owner of your book, and I try to attend your live seminars when possible. Well, thanks, Dave. My question is this. I have a friend who owns a liquor establishment in New Jersey. As a concealed carry licensee in New Jersey, I’m well aware of prohibition of carry in these establishments. My friend took it upon himself to post a NO GUNS SIGN in his establishment. Is he obligated to do this? He’s not a fan of guns, so I took this as an anti 2A stance. He’s already received negative feedback from gun owners. If he is indeed obligated by law to post this, then perhaps I’m being too sensitive. If he’s not obligated to do this, may I add his establishment to a long list of establishments I don’t patronize. Thank you for much for your advice.

Evan Nappen 24:34

Okay, here’s the deal. He’s not obligated to do this. He’s not obligated at all. Now, of course, the gun rights oppressors in the New Jersey Government want people to put up those signs, but it’s not required by law at all. Now, when you say he has a liquor establishment, let’s be clear. If liquor is not consumed there, if it is simply a liquor store, then you’re allowed to carry in a liquor store that is open to the public. You’re allowed to do that. Now, if it is a bar or restaurant serving alcohol, then you cannot. I don’t know what type of establishment he has. But even if it is a sensitive place where alcohol is consumed and sold for consumption, etc, there’s no need for him to put up a sign that you’re not allowed to carry there. It’s currently a sensitive place which is being fought, by the way, by the Association in Federal court as we speak. But no sign is required. So, that sign, regardless of whether it’s a prohibited place or not, is voluntary on his part, and all he’s doing is discouraging customers.

Page – 5 – of 8

Because if you are a law-abiding gun carrier, then you know, if it’s an establishment involving liquor that is a sensitive place, you know not to go in there with your gun. You don’t need a freaking sign. All the sign says is, express a gun rights oppression attitude, and that’s something that is not helpful. So, maybe in a nice way, you want to tell him. Hey, look, unless you think a sign is actually going to make you safer, which is laughable, it actually makes you more dangerous, because they know, hey, there’s no guns. That’s a good place to hit. Don’t have to worry about any problems from people defending themselves. It’s a victim zone. It’s a nice victim zone, right? So, maybe he needs to understand that concept. But there’s no sign, no signs. So, Dave, I hope you can get that situation resolved, but that’s the status of signs.

Evan Nappen 27:09

This one is from John. John says, Evan, I absolutely love your podcast and feel like I know 99% more than anyone else because of it. That’s right, because the person you don’t know more about is me. I’m just kidding. Okay, but thanks, John. I have two questions John asks. I know we have a duty to disclose when being pulled over while being a permit to carry a handgun holder, but if we are stopped by an officer walking down the street, do we have a duty to disclose? The answer is yes. Yes, it’s not just in a motor vehicle, but even stopped in the street. You have a duty to disclose. Then question two, I recently received a renewal of my permit to carry handgun. They are now digital. Do I need to carry a physical permit, or is the digital stored on my phone sufficient? I would tell you that has not been decided by a court, but I would strongly recommend that you have a physical copy. If for no other reason, you can hand the physical copy to the officer instead of giving them your phone. We don’t need your phone in the hands of law enforcement with them scrolling all your love letters and emails and all that kind of stuff, right? So, have a physical copy. Print it up and carry it with you. And that’s really the best idea. If you want to have it on your phone as a backup, I mean, whatever. But I would strongly suggest a physical copy. Thanks, John.

Evan Nappen 28:46

Now this is from Vinnie. Vinnie wants to know if the form for the guns that you’re going to carry, S.P. 182a, is required. (https://nj.gov/njsp/firearms/forms.shtml) Just renewed my PTC, and I no longer have a judge issued permit. Oh, thank god, you no longer have a judge-issued permit. What a mess those were. That permit restricted my carry to guns I qualified with. I’m sorry if you went over this. As a loyal listener, I don’t remember hearing about it. You know what? I don’t mind repeating it. It’s important.

Evan Nappen 29:24

Once the new system got in place and finally, judges were removed from the process. Remember, the judges were the ones taking away our rights, not protecting our rights. They were the ones creating all these restrictions and extra orders on your permit, you know, you can only have it when the moon is full and such. You know, bizarre stuff. So, here’s the deal. That’s gone, and there’s no more gun specific restriction. As long as you passed CCARE which tested your core competency, you can carry any handgun that you’ve listed. So, you can list the guns on that form or when you apply for your PTC, it asks what guns you intend to carry. You can put it there as well. There is no individual certification by gun anymore, the way the judges used to bust our balls over that. No longer. Whatever gun you qualify with, that’s okay. It tested your core competency. You could even pass CCARE with an air pistol,

Page – 6 – of 8

because that is technically a handgun and a firearm in New Jersey, and as long as you pass the requirements with an air pistol, you could carry a Smith and Wesson 500 Magnum if you wanted to. It’s not gun specific. It’s core competency. Just list the guns on either the form S.P. 182a or when you do your application. Okay, thanks, Vinnie.

Evan Nappen 31:03

I have a question here from Alex. Alex is big fan of the podcast. Thank you for all you do for the 2A community. Well, you’re welcome. He has a question about AR builds. I was looking to get a Surefire Muzzle Break so that I could eventually put on a Warden Blast Regulator. My concern is whether or not a muzzle break is legal in New Jersey. Even though it can be pinned and welded, it’s still able to accept a threaded on device, like a Warden, or even the Surefire suppressor.

Evan Nappen 31:39

So, Alex, here’s where you’re getting into some uncharted, dangerous territory. You see, the whole deal with the threaded barrel on an AR is that it’s one of the offending features under the 1996 Attorney General Guidelines. So, you can’t have a threaded barrel, and you can’t have a flash suppressor. You can have a muzzle break, but not a threaded barrel. Therefore, if you have what is a bona fide muzzle break and it’s on a threaded barrel but it’s pinned and welded so the threads can no longer be utilized, then you no longer have a threaded barrel, because it’s welded or pinned in such a way it can’t be utilized. And you do not have a flash suppressor. You have a muzzle break or compensator, which is different. So, if you’re going down that road, if you have a muzzle device, you want to get the documentation that your muzzle device is not a flash hider or flash suppressor. Okay?

Evan Nappen 32:53

You’re allowed to have a compensator. You’re allowed to have a break, and you want the documentation, because I’ve had to have those fights defending law-abiding criminals in New Jersey over that insanity. So, protect yourself by making sure you have the documentation that your compensator is a compensator. I’ll tell you right now, folks. The State confuses them. They can’t even tell the difference between a compensator and a silencer. I’ve had them called compensators silencers even when the compensator actually made the gun louder. Believe me, you want to have your documentation. That way I could present it to the prosecutor and make it clear that you were in compliance. They don’t even understand it,, but we can prove to them that it’s not one of those prohibited devices. And so, the threading, unfortunately, is a separate offending feature. So, if you put something on there that makes it part of the barrel, because you welded it, but it still has threading.

Evan Nappen 34:02

Now, the State could try to argue that although the compensator or the other device is okay because it’s not a flash suppressor, they might argue that you still have a threaded barrel, which is an offending feature. If you have an AR with a pistol grip and you have that second offending feature, you’re now looking at possession of an assault firearm. So, you have to be very careful. If you are going to have a muzzle device, document that it’s not a prohibited device. Make sure your barrels on your ARs are not threaded. If it was at one time, make sure that whatever the device is permanently affixed, so that there is no more threading that’s able to be used. And that’s how you have to protect yourself in the DPR NJ. That’s the Democratic People’s Republic of New Jersey.

Page – 7 – of 8

Evan Nappen 35:01

Now let’s get to the favorite section, the favorite segment of Gun Lawyer. And that, of course, is the GOFU. What’s the GOFU? What’s the Gun Owner Fuck Up? Why do we talk about GOFUs? Because these are expensive lessons that you get to learn for free. This week’s GOFU. Well, here’s the bottom line, folks. When you’re carrying concealed, you want to make sure your gun stays concealed. It has to be concealed. If it’s not concealed, then the State can claim you are open carrying, and that’s a crime in New Jersey under the so-called safe carry requirements. So, beware. In this case, an individual was riding a motorcycle, and when you ride a motorcycle, there is wind, as any motorcyclist will tell you. The wind from riding the bike blew the clothing, the jacket, the shirt, whatever it was, so that the gun got exposed. This caused law enforcement involvement and caused problems, problems you’d rather not have. So, be very, very careful. Now, you know, I can defend this. There are provisions in the law that talk about a brief showing of the gun in movement and such. But you don’t want to have to rely on that, folks. You want to make sure your concealed carry gun stays concealed. If you’re going to be in an environment where it might have a greater chance of being exposed, be careful. Make sure it stays concealed, or you will experience a GOFU.

Evan Nappen 37:15

This is Evan Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens.

Speaker 3 37:25

Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing Evan@gun.lawyer. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state.

Page – 8 – of 8

Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E201_Transcript
About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.

Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets.

Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News.

As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists.

He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America.

Email Evan Your Comments and Questions 

• 
  

  talkback@gun.lawyer

  
  

Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America. 
Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL. 
Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.  

Email (required) *

First Name *

Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.By submitting this form, you are consenting to receive marketing emails from: . You can revoke your consent to receive emails at any time by using the SafeUnsubscribe® link, found at the bottom of every email. Emails are serviced by Constant Contactvar ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";