Episode 186-It’s Not Just Pineapples and Kona in Hawaii Anymore
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Gun Lawyer — Episode 186 Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

knife, law, new jersey, exemptions, id card, firearms, possession, great, hawaii, rights, evan, gun,

police, gun owner, second amendment, transport, mags, switchblade, repeal, ban

SPEAKERS

Speaker 3, Evan Nappen

Evan Nappen 00:18

I’m Evan Nappen, and welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, I have some exciting news in the ever evolving

Second Amendment challenges that we keep seeing. And, you know, it’s really wonderful. Even though

there’s so many lousy laws there and the antis keep having their hissy fits and passing new laws, the

power of Bruen continues on. As I’ve said before, the Second Amendment is not the right to keep and

bear guns. It is the right to keep and bear arms, and arms include any type of weapon for self-defense,

etc. So, I want to see legalization and removal of any law that restricts our rights to personal defense,

firearms or any other weapon. I’m happy to let you know that the State of Hawaii. Yes, I mean, you

think of Hawaii as very liberal, very anti-Second Amendment, and they are. They absolutely are. But

what Hawaii did, other than selling us pineapples and Kona coffee, I love Kona coffee. It is my favorite.

But anyway, what Hawaii did was legalize by actually repealing the law, legalized butterfly knives,

switchblade knives, and gravity knives, as well as brass knuckles, including trench knives, and

Karambits, and swords and spears. That’s right. They repealed. The State of Hawaii repealed all those

laws for sale, manufacture, transfer, possession and transportation of all these other weapons.

(https://kniferights.org/legislative-update/hawaii-legalizes-butterfly-switchblade-gravity-knives/)

Evan Nappen 02:46

Now that is wonderful, absolutely wonderful. I’m so happy for the folks in Hawaii who no longer will be

turned into criminals for simple possession of these items, many of which are very collectible, very

desirable, and very much part of a history of weapons development and culture. Why repeal it now?

Why would Hawaii do such a thing? Did they suddenly have an epiphany about the Second

Amendment and malum prohibitum laws that ban weapons? No, not at all. Not at all. That would be

giving them way too much credit. What happened was that Hawaii got put between a rock and a hard

place. I guess they kind of got hit with a tsunami, you might say, because of a case that was brought, a

court case brought in a challenge to these very laws. That case is Teter versus Lopez.

(https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2023/08/07/20-15948.pdf) The court there, the Ninth

Circuit Court of Appeals, found that their ban on butterfly knives, you know, balisongs or butterfly

knives, was a violation of the Second Amendment. Because of that, they pushed forward to see if they

could get an en bank, the full panel, to review the case. They are taking a big risk because they feel

that if the loss is confirmed, it’s going to put in jeopardy all their other laws, you know, regarding

firearms and other things. So, what they did was an attempt to moot out, to moot, the case. But to moot

the case, it meant having to legalize all these weapons.Page – 2 – of 7

Evan Nappen 05:08

Now the case is still proceeding because the attorneys involved are still claiming the carry portion, you

know, the ability to carry, should still be alive from this and maybe continue it. But the court may just

throw it out as moot now that the law itself has been tossed. I don’t know what the outcome will be. But

regardless, there will still be other days for other challenges, and it is a tremendous win. It’s a

tremendous win, because getting rid of those stupid laws is in the plus column for freedom, liberty, and

the Second Amendment. So, this is really great. It shows you the power of Bruen, not only in the courts

themselves, but to actually force otherwise anti-Second Amendment legislators to have to repeal laws

in order to keep the challengers out of the courts. That’s great. That’s fantastic. It’s absolutely fantastic.

Evan Nappen 06:21

Knife Rights did play a role here. Knife Rights is the organization in America that vigorously defends our

knife rights. You might loosely consider them the NRA of knives, but they’re actually more effective than

the NRA, actually, interestingly. We’ll get more into that in a moment. But Knife Rights put in an Amicus

Brief in the court challenge and all. Congratulations are due to the attorneys in the case, which are Alan

Beck and Stephen Stamboulieh. They were the attorneys that brought the case on Teter, and this really

forced them into it. Teter versus Lopez was a huge Second Amendment win for all knife owners and

Second Amendment supporters. Also, credit is due to the San Diego County Gun Owners Political

Action Committee and the Firearms Policy Coalition, who also joined in the Amicus. Doug Ritter (Knife

Rights Chairman) said, “this is a huge victory for knife owners and knifemakers in Hawaii. Knife Rights

is proud to have played a role with our Amicus Brief in the Teter versus Lopez appeal. . .” Ritter further

said, while Knife Rights welcomes this new law loosening the restrictions on knife possession, it doesn’t

finish the job in Hawaii. We still have work to do and look forward to working with our friends to continue

the fight until there are no restrictions on carry in Hawaii.

Evan Nappen 08:02

Now, this is really great stuff. It’s something where I think we’re going to see down the road, a challenge

to New Jersey’s prohibitions on switchblades, daggers, dirks, stilettos, gravity knives, knuckles, etc. as

well. This is a great indication of the power of Bruen and how those things can be effective as a win.

Additionally, you know, Knife Rights has really been at the forefront of the knife liberty movement. Doug

is a friend of mine, and I’m their counsel as well. I’m really proud of the work Knife Rights has done, and

the knife liberty movement actually started with Knife Rights. We were able, originally in 2010, for the

first time in modern times, to get New Hampshire to do a full repeal of New Hampshire’s ban on

switchblades, daggers, Dirks, stilettos. I’ve talked about that on other shows and that led to the

groundwork.

Evan Nappen 09:13

From 2010 to now, Knife Rights has resulted in 49 bills repealing knife bans in 31 states and 190 cities

and towns. That’s really amazing work. Those states include, by the way, Alabama, Alaska, Arizona,

Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Louisiana, Maine, Michigan,

Missouri, Montana, Nebraska. Nevada, New Hampshire, New York, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania.

Did you know they legalized switchblades now in Pennsylvania? Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia,Page – 3 – of 7

Washington, West Virginia, and Wisconsin. The reason Hawaii is now added to the list is the past

preemption, as well. So, these are things that are just amazing.

Evan Nappen 10:28

Knife Rights has actually stopped 10 Anti-knife bills, including an anti-knife bill out of New Jersey, by

the way. And out of Florida, Maryland, New York, Nevada, Texas, and Washington. So, those are the

anti-knife bills that were stopped and all these pro-knife bills that have been passed. Now you can see

the Bruen court case is having tremendous impact. Knife Rights has now brought a federal challenge to

The Federal Switchblade Act, the FSA, as we’ve talked about before. So, things are really, really

looking up in terms of the expansion of the enforcement of our Second Amendment rights concerning

arms. All this goes to helping the fight across the board for guns as well.

Evan Nappen 11:31

This is the entire picture, and it’s so exciting to see positive results. How often do we get to say in

America that we gained freedom? I mean, it’s almost sad for me to say that. But the truth of it is, it is not

common for us to gain freedom. Yet here we are gaining freedom. It’s sad that we have to fight to gain

back our freedom, but it is happy that we are succeeding in doing so. Look, we lost our rights

incrementally across the board on so many of these things, and now we’re gaining them back

incrementally and at a record pace in the big picture. So, as much as these things get us upset about

various laws and infringements, at least, we can take heart in knowing that the times are a changing

and that we are succeeding. We’ve been given the tools by the trifecta of Heller, McDonald and Bruen

in the United States Supreme Court to continue our march, gaining freedom and liberty in the

expansion of our Second Amendment rights. It helps us not just in court case wins, in the cases that

win in the courts, but also in effecting legislative change, and that’s what this stands for. That’s good

stuff, folks. Really good stuff.

Evan Nappen 13:33

And you know, our friends at WeShoot, which is one of my favorite ranges in New Jersey, understand

this. They’re an indoor pistol range, and they are in Lakewood, New Jersey. Easy access, right off the

Parkway. They are just a fantastic place. If you’ve never been to WeShoot, you need to go there. If you

have been there, then you know what I’m talking about. WeShoot will treat you like family. Mention my

name, and they’ll treat you like royalty. They are the best! They have everything you need, and it’s kind

of exciting because they have this really great gun now, the Rost Martin. Have you ever seen the Rost

Martin the RM1C? This gun is really cool. I mean, they have a lot of great stuff there, and they can

totally outfit you. But this Rost Martin is kind of amazing. It is somewhat similar to a Glock 19, but it

actually shoots better. It has lots of whistles and bells, great features. It’s MOS, ready for your optic,

and all good to go. Do you realize that this gun has an MSRP of only $465?

Evan Nappen 14:53

The folks at WeShoot are now running their special Member Appreciation Month deals for May. So, you

can cash in on that if you’re a member. Or if you’re not a member and you want to join, they’re offering

$100 off memberships as an exclusive for new members. This is a golden opportunity to become part

of the WeShoot family. You’ll see exactly what I’m talking about. To have a resource like WeShoot is so

important, especially in Central Jersey, where things are so crowded, and there really aren’t that manyPage – 4 – of 7

places to shoot. And here you have this great range there that you can take advantage of. So, go see

my friends at WeShoot. Check out weshootusa.com They have a magnificent website, beautiful

photography. You’ll be glad you did. Mention my name and watch what happens. It’s like magic. It’s a

great place – WeShoot in Lakewood, New Jersey.

Evan Nappen 16:05

I also want to mention our good friends at the state Association, the Association of New Jersey Rifle &

Pistol Clubs. They are the premier gun rights defender in New Jersey. Every one of my listeners needs

to belong to the state Association. They are the umbrella organization of gun clubs, but they also have

individual memberships. When you join, you increase our power. Our power is in numbers, and our

power is an organization and membership. This group really stands out. They have a full time paid

lobbyist in Trenton, and they are the folks litigating as we speak in federal court on the ban on modern

sporting rifles, so-called Assault Firearms, and the ban on standard capacity magazines, so-called large

capacity magazines. They’re also battling Murphy’s Carry Killer law, which was their big hissy fit after

Bruen, and we’re taking down that law in the courts. Helping us expand our ability to use our shall issue

carry throughout the state. This is a group you want to be part of. You’ll get their emails and alerts and

be able to instantly take action. You’ll also get their great newsletter, best gun newsletter about New

Jersey out there, and you’ll know that you’re doing your part. So go to anjrpc.org and join today. Go

there and join ANJRPC. Be part of the solution.

Evan Nappen 17:50

Here is where I shamelessly promote my book, New Jersey Gun Law, which is the Bible of New Jersey

gun law. That’s it man. It is the one and only authoritative Nappen Orange Book on New Jersey gun

law. It’s over 500 pages with 120 topics all in a question and answer format. Explained easily for you to

understand it. It is used by the New Jersey State Police Firearms Units, by police, and used by judges

and lawyers. But most importantly, it’s used by gun owners throughout the state so they can stay safe

in New Jersey and hopefully not become a victim of New Jersey’s gun laws. Nor commit any GOFUs,

which is easy enough to do in New Jersey. This book will help protect you. When you get your book,

scan the front cover, and make sure you subscribe for free to my subscriber base. You will get alerts as

to any updates, and you’ll have full access to all the archives of any past updates and important info so

that your book stays current. So, when you get the book, do that, and stay current. You’ll have at your

fingertips the ability to remain a law-abiding gun owner in the very treacherous state of New Jersey.

You can buy my book on my website at EvanNappen.com. Just go to EvanNappen.com, and you’ll see

the big orange book. Click on it, and in a matter of days, you’ll have your very own copy.

Evan Nappen 19:39

Now I have received some great letters. The old Ask Evan letters, and I love receiving letters from my

listeners. You guys are great, and I appreciate the questions. So, here is a question from Steven.

Steven says regarding firearms ID card. Evan, I just had my permit to carry and firearms ID card printed

on plastic cards to fit in my wallet by NJ Liberty cards. I noticed that my old Firearms ID card from 1981

says “permit to purchase and transport rifles and shotguns”. My new Firearms ID card says,

“permission to purchase rifles and shotguns pursuant to N.J.S. 2C:58-3”. They removed “transport”

from the FID cards. Does that change being able to have a rifle or shotgun in your car? Are thesePage – 5 – of 7

shrunk down to wallet size plastic cards legal for PTC and Firearms ID cards? Regular follower of

yours, and I have the old edition and the anniversary edition of your gun law book. Regards, Steven.

Evan Nappen 20:54

Well, thanks, Steve. We have a couple of questions kind of interspersed in that but let me answer both.

So, first of all, what’s the deal with these plastic cards? Well, you know what, I don’t see any problem

with it, and I’ll tell you why. These things are sent to you electronically, and you have to print them on

some medium of some sort. It doesn’t require to be on paper. Why? It’s better on plastic, frankly. It lasts

longer. It doesn’t dissolve away. I think it’s a great idea. And why wouldn’t it be? I mean, they’re done

online. They’re sent to you online. They’re provided in that way. So, why not? If you want to have it on

plastic, or paper, or some other material that’s printable, as long as it’s legible, and there is a permit,

which is exactly what it is, officially printed permit that was electronically sent to you, I don’t see a

problem with that.

Evan Nappen 21:59

Now on the other question about the change of the language, yeah, they modified the language, but it

is not a change in the law. Because the law on Firearms Purchaser ID cards, which is under N.J.S.

2C:39-5.c., talks about rifles and shotguns. What it says is that no person shall possess any rifle or

shotgun unless first having obtained a New Jersey Firearms Purchaser Identification Card. So, that’s

the normal possession charge that you would face on the possession of a long arm rifle or shotgun. But

if you have a Firearms Identification Card, you’re exempted on the face of the statute for that

possession. Then there’s another provision that says you cannot have your gun loaded unless

otherwise permitted by law. So, the other permissions by law that allow for loaded firearms being long

arms are found in the exemptions, which are narrow, including N.J.S. 2C:39-6.e., which is possession

in your home or place of business, etc. You can read N.J.S. 2C:39-6.e. about that exemption. Or under

f., which is going hunting or to the target range. Those exemptions would allow for loaded and/or

transport unloaded, as long as you’re transporting pursuant to subsection g., which we’ve discussed

before. This requires the gun to be unloaded and essentially cased or locked in the trunk, or a closed

and fastened case, or in a gun box, etc. So, those are the exemptions. The Firearms (Purchaser) ID

card itself exempts your possession for the unloaded rifle or shotgun. Now when we talk about

transport, if you’re stopped with a gun in your car, the charge is going to be unlawful possession. Your

Firearms ID card covers you for that possession while you’re in the mode of transport. It’s not about a

separate transport prohibition. Because if you don’t have a Firearms ID Card, then you have to be

transporting pursuant to the exemptions while going to the exempted places. But what is that exempting

you from? N.J.S. 2C:39-5c., which is the possession law that we just said has in that law itself the

Firearms ID card, right on the face of it, as an exemption. In other words, if you’re possessing a rifle or

shotgun, unloaded, and you have a Firearms ID Card, you don’t even have to go to the exemptions for

any type of coverage. Because you’re not exemption dependent now. You have the Firearms ID card

that the statute requires. But if you don’t have it, then you have to rely on exemptions. Now, in New

Jersey, you should do both. Stay within the exemptions and have a Firearms ID card. Because it’s like

wearing a belt and suspenders here, you know. You have got to be give yourself every advantage and

protection, whether it’s by exemption or license. This is how our law currently functions, but I believe

eventually, because of how it functions, and it’s so stupid, frankly, it’s going to be knocked out as

unconstitutional. Challenges are brewing as we speak. But for now, you don’t want to have a problem.Page – 6 – of 7

You want to be legal. A Firearms ID card is still a powerful tool to remain legal. Try to stay within the

exemptions as well as have the Firearms ID card. Make sure your gun is unloaded and cased properly

for transport, etc. so that you can seek the shelter of both the license and the exemption. All right.

Thanks, Steve, for some really good questions.

Evan Nappen 26:22

Now I have a letter from Richard. Richard says Evan, regarding your podcast on Glock 43X Mags. I

emailed Glock customer service and within one day I received an email asking me how many mags do I

have and what is my home address. They are not requesting the mags be returned. The new AHA

arrived within a week in a plain vanilla envelope without any retail packaging. No questions asked. I

received five mags. Well, that’s very good that you did not have to unlawfully transport your mags, or

unlawfully dispose of your mags or unlawfully do anything else.

Evan Nappen 27:18

The problem, though, of course, is you did make a written email admission supposedly to possessing

illegal mags. But other than that, it’s nice that Glock did send you mags without any questions asked or

having to subject yourself to further risk. But it still doesn’t address the problem of the current

possession of your mags. For that the only legal thing you can do is a voluntary surrender under N.J.S.

2C:39-12, where you can give notice to the police of the date and time of surrender, and you can get rid

of the mags that are problematic. That’s the only legal way to handle it. So, as an attorney, I have to

advise you of that. I’m glad to hear that Glock is making good on it, supposedly, but it would be really

nice if they put out something official. Then we might be able to get the arrangements made for legal

transport of bad mags to dealers so that good mags could be provided. We could cut down on all the

risky stuff involved with this. But thanks, Richard, for reporting back on your experience.

Evan Nappen 28:46

Now I have a letter from a Julio, and Julio says regarding the Firearm ID card return if moving out of

New Jersey. Hi, Evan, if moving to another state like North Carolina, do I have to turn in my Firearms ID

card? Well, the answer Julio is you have to do something. One of your options is to voluntarily

surrender your Firearms ID card. However, your other option is you can apply for a change of address

to your new address in North Carolina. Now you have to do one or the other within 30 days of changing

your address. So, you either can send back your card and voluntarily surrender it within the 30 days

because you have moved and you don’t plan to ever come back to New Jersey, which I can

understand. Or you can get a change of address on your current FID, which is actually a good thing to

do, and here’s why. Your FID card has on it your SBI number. Now if you do a change of address that

SBI number will remain, and then you can get a New Jersey Permit to Carry as well, utilizing that SBI

number. You won’t even have to get fingerprinted because your SBI number exists. You can apply right

online and get a New Jersey Permit to Carry as a non-resident because you have a New Jersey FID

non-resident card with your SBI number. So, if you wish to keep that FID card, then do the change of

address which also opens the door for you to get your Jersey carry. It’s the same carry that residents

have. You’ll be able to carry under the law in Jersey, just like a resident could. These are things you

need to consider in your own personal circumstances as to whether you want to give New Jersey the

full kiss off, or whether you might still want to come back and visit family, visit friends, or have a reasonPage – 7 – of 7

to be here. Therefore, do the change of address route. But either way, Julio, thanks for the great

question.

Evan Nappen 31:21

Now comes the most popular segment of the show. It’s the GOFU time That’s right, the Gun Owner

Fuck Up. The greatest thing about GOFUs is that it is a very expensive lesson that somebody else has

learned that you get to learn for free, because you listen to the show. It’s based on actual cases and

real things that happened. So, this week’s GOFU is about an individual who went to the police

regarding a prior job situation and spoke to them about it. But they ended up mentioning, just ended up

talking and mentioning that he had or she, I won’t even tell you the sex, could be a man or woman,

spoke to the officer that they were engaged with there and mentioned that they had gotten therapy

because they had gained weight. So, this is weight loss therapy, in effect. Because it was therapy, the

officer said, hey, when you applied for your gun permits, and it said, have you ever been treated or

observed by any doctor, psychiatrists for any mental or physical condition, you wrote no. You didn’t

mention your weight gain therapy. Oh, boy. Now the escalation comes in. The dangers of revocation,

confiscation, possibly even criminal charges for falsification, all because of mentioning therapy for

weight gain.

Evan Nappen 33:23

Listen, folks, the GOFU is don’t talk to the police. Okay? I don’t know how I can make it any clearer.

When you talk to the police, you’re taking a risk. Something that you may not ever think is in any way a

problem, suddenly blows up to be a problem. You think, oh, I’m fine. I was wronged. I’m in the right, and

I’ve been wronged. I’m the victim of some offense or crime or something like that, and you go to the

police. You figure the police are your friend, and they’re there to help you. They would be reasonable.

And guess what happens? This stuff happens. And look, I’m not anti-police. I’m not saying this because

of being anti-police. We need our police. We wouldn’t have a civilized society without police. I treasure

our police. Honestly, I do. I mean it. They’re good people, and we need to support them. It’s not about

that. They have a job to do, and they’re trained to do it. The policies and the procedures are there. If

you say these things, you force them into a position.

Evan Nappen 34:49

Now this seems a bit absurd that it’s over this. But, if they don’t take the steps and then something else

comes out, guess who gets in trouble? They do. So, you’ve now put yourself in a bad position, and you

put them in a bad position because you didn’t know to shut up and not involve police in your life if you

can avoid it. Okay, so that’s the GOFU, folks. Keep it in mind. This is Evan Nappen reminding you that

gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens.

Speaker 3 35:33

Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by

Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing Evan@gun.lawyer. The information and

opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state.

Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E186_Transcript
About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.

Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets.

Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News.

As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists.

He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America.

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