I was surprised to learn that Troy Ables passed away on Thursday, Jan 15, 2026. In this special episode I’m sharing a previously unpublished interview from October 2020 to honor the memory of Troy Ables, a YouTuber and podcaster known for “The Last Dispensation,” who passed away suddenly around the age of 54. In a reversal of roles, Troy interviews Rick, delving into Rick’s personal history, his views on controversial church topics, and the evolution of Mormon historical transparency.

https://youtu.be/l8GdztsUrZU

The conversation highlights the generational differences in how Latter-day Saints engage with church literature. Troy recounts devouring Bruce R. McConkie’s “Mormon Doctrine” and “The Miracle of Forgiveness” as a youth, while I admitted to avoiding them, viewing them as sources of unnecessary guilt or false doctrine. We discuss how the Church has shifted from the politically conservative era of the 1980s to a modern era characterized by greater openness, exemplified by the release of the Gospel Topics Essays.

A significant portion of the interview focuses on plural marriage. I tried to articulate a clear distinction between the sealing power, which I support and finds beautiful, and the practice of polygamy, which I’m not a fan of. Specific issues such as Joseph Smith’s marriage to Fanny Alger and the secrecy kept from Emma Smith as reasons for discomfort. I don’t agree with the apologetic defense that Joseph was merely sealing families together, noting the sexual component and the sneakiness involved.

I maintain my testimony while acknowledging historical difficulties. I have a problem with the “we don’t know” defense used by some apologists, arguing that we do know certain uncomfortable facts—such as Joseph Smith being a “terrible money manager” regarding the Kirtland Safety Society. Instead, it seems better to accept Joseph Smith as an inspired but imperfect human being.

The discussion also touches on the treatment of intellectuals and dissidents, such as the “September Six.” The Church has been inconsistent approach to discipline and reinstatement, contrasting the rebaptism of Maxine Hanks with the denial of Lavina Fielding Anderson. I hope that the Church is becoming more tolerant of diverse voices than it has in the past. The contributions of scholars like Matt Harris and Margaret Toscano deserve great praise.

Origin and Purpose

The essays were initiated under Church Historian Elder Marlin Jensen and continued by his successor, Elder Steven E. Snow. They were created as a direct response to the explosion of the internet, where members were encountering disturbing information about Church history that was causing them to lose their testimonies. The goal was to provide fficial good information” on difficult subjects such as the translation of the Book of Mormon, race and the priesthood, and the Mountain Meadows Massacre.

The “Quiet” Launch

Rick explains that the Church purposely did not advertise the essays when they were first published (roughly between 2012 and 2015). According to Elder Snow, leadership wanted the answers to be available for those who were struggling, but they feared that broadcasting the essays might cause testimony loss among members who were not previously aware of the controversies.

Handling Polygamy

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the three essays regarding polygamy. Rick gives the Church credit for admitting to difficult facts, such as Joseph Smith’s practice of polyandry (marrying women who were already married) and his marriage to teenage brides. However, Rick notes that some language appeared “softened” by leadership; for example, the essays described a 14-year-old bride as being “in her 15th year” to make it sound less jarring.

Overall Assessment

Despite some critiques, Rick views the essays as “leaps and bounds better” than what was available in previous decades. He mentions that historian Matt Harris (along with Margaret Toscano) has written a book critiquing the essays, highlighting that while they are a vast improvement, there are still areas where the essays are weak or where the Church is hesitant to fully engage.