Episode 155 Connection Over Isolation: The Soulful-Recovery Philosophy with Grant Schaefer Watch Now https://youtu.be/Dj-MywWxD9Y Listen Now Description

In this episode of Finding Peaks, Chris Burns sits down with Soulful-Recovery’s Executive Director, Grant Schaefer, for an honest and inspiring conversation about modern recovery, personal transformation, and the power of connection. Grant shares his personal journey through addiction and recovery — the experiences that shaped his why and ultimately led to the creation of Soulful-Recovery. Together, they explore how virtual Intensive Outpatient Programs (VIOP) and telehealth services are breaking down barriers to treatment, allowing individuals to receive high-quality, individualized care without putting their lives on pause. Chris and Grant also discuss the importance of dropping ego in recovery, the evolving landscape of addiction treatment in Colorado, and why accessible, compassionate care is essential in today’s world. This episode offers both a practical look at how virtual therapy works and a deeply human story of purpose, passion, and the belief that recovery is possible for everyone. Thank you, Grant, for joining us on this episode. For more information on Soulful-Recovery, check out soulful-recovery.com

Talking Points Introduction to the Show The beginning of Soulful-Recovery Grant’s story The benefit of virtual IOP Looking into virtual therapy The Soulful-Recovery difference Community is key Individualized treatment Legislation in Colorado The passion behind Grant and Soulful-Recovery Dropping the ego Grant’s WHY soulful-recovery.com Final thoughts Quotes “It’s people before profit, too. And you can tell when a program does that”. – Grant Schaefer Episode Transcripts





Episode -155- Transcripts

How do we break down the stigma a to virtual treatment? Proving whether or not it does work or doesn’t work and then really honing in on the details that make it exceptional. So people are coming in with this concrete block of shame and it’s our job as holistic providers to begin to plane that block a little bit to make it a little less lighter so they can lift up a little bit taller so they can see the sun a little bit more clearly. There’s no one right way to be in recovery. It’s your journey and your path.
Hey everybody and welcome to another amazing, exciting and most certainly enthusiastic episode of Finding Peaks. Yours truly, host, founder, chief executive officer here at Peaks Recovery. So grateful to today to be joined um by a colleague and friend Grant Schaefer with one of my favorite treatment programs names right now, Soulful Recovery. Thank you. Welcome to the show, my friend. I appreciate it. Yeah, good to see you. I’m actually going to go off off of the list right now and ask you, how did you develop the name Soulful Recovery? Oh, well, so a was what domains are available that you think sound good? Let’s be honest, a lot of stuff’s taking. Yeah. But more importantly, what does it mean to you to be in recovery? For me, when I was in the pits of despair, I lost myself, right? My soul just left my body, my passion, my purpose completely disrupted and destroyed. And so when we were picking out names, I was like, I want it to include soul. And so we started searching around on domains. what was available, what wasn’t, and Soulful was available. And it felt immediately right. You know, when you hear that name and it just rolls off your tongue and you’re like, “Oof, there’s a lot of purpose behind that.” Yeah. That’s how Soulful was born. Yeah. I love that. It has like a very holistic vibe. Yeah. And that’s our program. Yeah. Yeah. It’s It has recovery in the name, too. Huh. Yeah. So, it’s Soulful Recovery. Only downside is there’s a dash in between. So, when you’re searching, it’s www.soulful-reoververy.com soulful-reovery.com and that’s the only part that gets me. Yeah. But other than that, the name is perfect. That’s great. It’s always tough in the domain, too. You’re like Peaks Recovery Centers-.com. It’s always nice when it’s like a little bit more condensed, refined. Yeah, I agree. But if it rolls off the tongue and we’ve had so many people like you who say that you just say it and it feels like it means something to you and that’s it. That’s the special secret of I think any good program is from the jump. What’s your first impression? I mean, we spoke the other week and we talked about anchoring bias and your first impression with a program. And that’s one of them. Yeah. The name. It’s very refreshing. And I haven’t really loved I’ve been thinking about over the years of like how do we get recovery out of our name? But because you have soulful first, it really informs something a little bit differently than I think a lot of recovery centers. Recovery center. Soulful recovery. It’s Yeah. I don’t like the name center at the end of it. I don’t know. Yeah, you feel Yeah. Yeah. No knock, by the way. Yeah. Deservedly taken. You’re stuck with it now. Yeah. Because it’s more like this. It’s more like this opportunity of like wellness and we want to be able to allow folks regardless of where they sit on the mental health or substance use spectrum to really see themselves in our process, see themselves in our name, be able to call that place home. And I think sometimes with recovery center, it kind of informs something a little bit negative and rudimentary. I would agree. It also sounds very formal and rigid. Yeah. Yeah. We’re going to do the 12 steps at this recovery center. Exactly. Well, I’m so grateful to have you on the show since I met with you, Grant and the crew up there. They do a virtual IOP doing a lot of great things in that space. We’ll get to that here in a few minutes. Uh but first, like how did you get into the field? I know you already told the viewers here that you’re in recovery, but maybe tell us a little bit about that process. Yeah. So uh maybe not obviously I went through my own journey in recovery. Uh it was long, it was crappy, it was all the really difficult things that you go through first as a teen and then in college and then you know through my 20s. Uh and the guy who who sent me to a program uh ultimately was my salvation you know to some regard at least. Uh, I came back into Colorado about a year and a half after being clean and he said he was leaving his company to start a consulting business for treatment programs. And I was like, at the time I was a shopper at Whole Foods, you know, just with my earbuds in, just putting groceries in, just trying to make a buck and trying to keep my head afloat and not mess up. And he’s like, why don’t you come work with me? I’ll show you the ropes. And so I did that and you know you know when you’re working in treatment you see the good stuff, the bad stuff and the oh I never want to touch that kind of stuff. It got to that point. So I knew I liked working in treatment. I knew I wanted to work in treatment you know after about six months with him but I didn’t know I but I knew I didn’t want to work with him. So that was kind of the impetus for getting into treatment and then figuring out how I wanted to pivot from there. Yeah. I like that a lot. Yeah, that’s it. Reminds me of the first place I worked. I was like, “Yeah, the good, bad, and the ugly.” Oh, yeah. You know, all of it in there. How long did you work for that company and where were you uh where were you living at the time? So, my parents I told my parents I wanted to move to Colorado. They’re like, “Great, we’ll move with you cuz we love you that much. We love you that much.” And you know, parents want to do their best. And you know, a lot of our family was migrating out here. So, they bought a place in Broomfield. I lived with them. Cool. And I worked with I had just started working with him. It was about three months in and then I got my first apartment in Denver where I met my now wife. Cool. And uh another thing I’m grateful that recovery has brought me. Yeah. And and I worked with him for about again about six months. Okay. Um learning kind of the ins and outs, the dos, the don’ts, the the where you can have fun and where you should never touch. Yeah. And that was very formative. Yeah. Where are you where you guys from? So, we’re from Jersey. I was born and raised in Jersey. Okay. Uh, East Coaster. There you go. And And everyone always talks about how cold the winters are here. I’m like, this doesn’t feel that bad. I was just talking to somebody about that. I was like, you ever been to New York City on Christmas? It’s freezing. It’s like 25, but it feels like minus 30. Oh, yeah. It’s It’s bad. God forbid you’re from, you know, the great up north and Yeah. Try telling someone like from Calgary or something like that, right? They’re like, “You think you’re cold?” Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That’s wild, man. It’s just a different It’s because of the humidity, right? Yes. Yeah. That makes a lot of It’s wet. It’s a wet winter versus a dry winter. And it’s just It’s all the difference. Yeah. Well, I want to talk about what Soulful Recovery does and why. And I’ll be honest, um until I’ve met a couple, not not a handful, but a couple Yeah. people like yourself and one other outpatient program doing it virtually, I had thought, especially prior to the pandemic, I’m like, “This is like this doesn’t make any sense. I would never do virtual therapy, but the pandemic informed a different way of kind of tackling this thing. And so I know you guys do have a sophisticated approach to what you do. And there’s one other program um that I really really love as well. But maybe talk to me a little bit about like why virtual IOP? What was it for you? Because it sounded like you had an impatient experience, right? Did you follow it up with any virtual for yourself? No, I yeah, I didn’t follow up with any afterare really. Like I found a recovery community in Denver, started surrounding myself by people who were also in recovery that all that good afterare stuff. Yeah. But just to clarify the question too, is it why virtual treatment or did I just fall into that? Yeah. Like what do you see the benefit of virtual counseling as opposed to in person? You can tap communities that are resource deserts, uh, most vulnerable populations that might not get it. And you can reach people who who might need it most, who for some reason can’t get to an inerson program because it’s not available. They’re working two jobs and their only time is available is, you know, in the evenings and driving 15, 30 minutes an hour away isn’t isn’t an option. They have kids at home or they can’t drive. They have a DUI. There’s so many reasons that it’s needed and I think the stigma really lies in and rightfully founded by the way is that in the pandemic it didn’t work all that well. Now did it not work because treatment programs were they were meleeing on their back foot or did it not work because people were socially isol isolated already so the outcome measurement data wasn’t good. You need a little bit of both. Yeah. Yeah. So our program well a was born out of a couple like circumstances. The first one was I again I was a shopper at uh at Whole Foods. I had just started working in residential treatment at that like right after and I didn’t have that much experience as an as a as a manager. So I wasn’t a trusted founder. No one knew I could balance a bud a budget sheet. I had no proof of it. So finding money was hard. And when I went to go meet someone who, you know, I met at a networking event, Sam Peterson, Mind Spa, he Yeah, Sam’s a cool guy. Yeah. Uh, you know, he took me down there, showed me around the office, and, you know, I was talking to him about the woes of trying to fund a program. He’s like, why don’t you just do virtual? And that’s when it kind of hit me of like, okay, I’d never a considered it and b does it work, right? So, I actually started playing around with that, uh, doing some research, you know, like market research, um, all the all the businessy stuff that you do on the back end and then asked myself the fundamental question, does Colorado need more inerson programming? Does it actually need more virtual programming? And that’s when things clicked. Sam had it right. I should start really investing in virtual program, figuring out what people did well, what they didn’t do well. How do we bring this to fruition? And so, thanks Sam. Appreciate you. He’s been on the podcast before. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Hey, man. And Ron, Dr. Ron Schwinkler. Oh, sweet. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, good people. And I, you know, I appreciate them for kind of giving me that kick in the direction that ultimately became Soulful Recovery. So, we we launched it with the idea of how do we how do we break down the stigma a to virtual treatment, proving whether or not it does work or doesn’t work. Mh. and then really honing in on the details that make it exceptional. What does that look like? Yeah. And so we’ve we found our secret sauce. We figured out what needs to happen to make it not just like from a business standpoint like fiscally feasible. But to have good outcome measurements that actually support people and so that’s what we built out. I love that. You know, I started my virtual journey on the front end of the pandemic as well. started doing sematic experiencing therapy. So, I became a believer pretty quick. When you say sematic experiencing, what are we talking about here? Like sematic work, like SCP, like sematic experiencing practitioner. It’s the uh it’s the modality. It’s developed by Peter Lavine, um who’s a fellow at the Meadows Behavioral Health. We love the Meadows around here. Yeah. Uh but Peter Lavine developed this sematic experiencing and and the idea is or the fact if I will um that the body keeps the score very vessel Vanderolk and the trauma lives on the vagus nerve in the body and it gets stuck and it informs the way we show up how we connect how we disconnect how we walk around and uh ambulate in this world. And so with sematic work we go into the nervous system we go into the body and we get out of the head that’s trying to keep me safe or kill me depending on the day. Um, and we go into we go internal and we move that energy on the Vegas nerve, which I’m no doctor or scientist, but it it starts back here and it goes down to the ankles in the Vegas nerve. If you’ve ever felt your Vegas nerve light up, you’ll know exactly where it is. Oh, yeah. And so, it’s about just moving that trauma out of the body so it’s not informing in a maladaptive or brilliant strategy way my every decision. So, I I love sematic work. Yeah, it’s really cool. It’s kind of closely aligned with EMDR in a way. Um, but yeah, so I I started my virtual journey and I remember my first session I’m like, “This is dog shit.” Thinking as we were about to get on and then all of a sudden I’m having this experience that maybe I wouldn’t have otherwise had in front of her and I was like, “You know what?” She’s like, “So, can we continue the virtual?” I’m like, “Yeah, this is actually working really well.” And what we’re starting to see essentially from like 2019 or early 2020 on is that people are spending less time in treatment. There’s a lot of resources online. People don’t need to spend 90 days in a program. They can get these virtual components and the components are far more sophisticated now. And so we’re starting to see it is people that’s what people are wanting. They don’t want a 90day IOP where you got to come three to five days a week, three hours a day. People have lives. These are mature adults, young adults. They’re moving and grooving and we don’t want to hold them back from that. Exactly. So I really love what you guys are doing. How would you say because I have I have a couple favorite providers. are one of them for sure. But what what differentiates Soulful Recovery from your run-of-the-mill um online intensive outpatient program? Yes. So, there’s a couple things. A, we do IOP level of care. So again that more group therapy focused modality which is key to building culture support systems uh lived experience through others bring in alumni to come speak to our groups so they get to know hey you know we’ve been gone two years and it still works so and this is how I did it and this keeps me going. So that works too and then the other thing is a lot of programs who are in person usually start IOPS or VIOPS as well. We’ve seen a massive uptick and there are plenty of people who do it well and there are plenty people who don’t do it well. I bet. Yeah. And I’d say when you’re choosing a program, when I’m choosing a program, do I want to go to a place that does all levels of care, detox, res, inperson IOP, VIOP, and then outpatient stuff, or do I want to go to someone who specializes it, right? And I’d ask the same person, you know, if you have a tumor in your brain, do you want to go to general surgeon or do you want to go to neurosurgeon? Exactly. We’re the neurosurgeon. Yeah. And so we specialize in it. It’s all we do. It’s our bread and butter, baby. We We figured out how to do it. We figured out how to do it well and we’ve continued to add different resources. We just launched our app like a year ago and our reward system that we built in there has amplified our attendance rates, uh, client satisfaction outcomes, all these key metrics that we’re looking for to say what we do actually helps people. Yeah. And it’s a difference that they haven’t experienced in another program. Yeah, that’s what I was going to ask you. That’s brilliant. I didn’t know you had an application. That’s really, really cool. Yeah. How do you account for attendance? Because that was one of the things where I’m like, yeah, people aren’t going to get to group. That’s why we provide rides and this that and the other thing. And I, you know, I would agree if you run, if you compare the analytics of attendance rates to an inerson program versus a virtual one, I’d say that virtual does dip. Okay. Uh yeah, not trying to misinform there. The degree to which it does dip is dependent upon the program’s um infrastructure. How do they track down clients who aren’t showing? How do they admit clients who are the right clients who will show? And these are that’s the secret sauce. That’s what makes us different is because we we can tell in our admissions process if that person’s probably going to be successful in virtual environments, let alone our program. Yeah, that’s really really cool. Is group size still the same thing on the virtual side of thing? Yeah. Okay. Um we Yeah. Forget the state limits. We cap our clients usually at around 10. Beautiful. Whereas you know in person programs you can go up to 12, you get another therapist in there, right? Yeah. You can you can budge the attendance. I love that you guys are doing that. You know, our our core value or excuse me, our mission is to save lives. Our top core value is to disrupt the industry through quality of care. I was just sitting with the BHA. I love you, right? Yeah. I was sitting with the BHA last week. I’ve been doing this while, you know, and we’ve been in Colorado 11 years. And I’m sitting there with our new surveyor and she’s like, “How many people do you have in group?” I’m like, “Well, you know, here in the residential program, we never go over 12 and in the PHP program we’re right around 12. And I know the rule is 15, but we generally standard 12.” And she said, “Good.” cuz we’re really cracking down on that. And I was like, are you really? Cuz I would love if you did. There’s a bunch of programs that I don’t think I’d have you got up the street, you know. And so it’s quality of care, man. It’s people before profits, too. Yeah. And you can tell when a program does that. Yeah. And then obviously it informs outcomes. It’s it’s like taking a step back today so I can step further tomorrow. Oh yeah. You know, it’s a really beautiful thing. thing and I just I love I I knew I was, you know, we were we had some um some relation both personally and professionally, but then I hear stuff like that and I’m like, you know, that’s why Grant’s sitting here today. We’ve been vibing from day one. Yeah, man. Yeah. Yeah. Ever since that dinner, we were we were at a dinner. My favorite thing cuz I’m a big foodie. Yeah. So, we’re at a dinner and and our table is like half full. So there’s like let’s call it 10 chairs and there was only five or six of us but we got the same appetizers and the same entre and all the same [  ] to our table. So I’m just like and it was all good. So good. God, what’s that place called? We got the kitchen. The kitchen. Yeah. If you haven’t been, you ought to go. Yeah. Oh my god. Yeah. And I got to meet your incredible wife as well. And you know a good a relationship is good when you literally can’t stop talking to that person and it doesn’t matter the topic. It can r like a I I was immediately attracted to you because you went into such highlevel insights things that only other founders and CEOs understand not just from the numbers but from the vision that you’re trying to put out into this world. Yeah. There’s only a couple people who can fully understand that. You know when you’re when I was a when I was a tech I didn’t think about that because all I was thinking about is you know making sure that a client didn’t relapse or did I collect that UA or is this medication really PRN right? you know, focus stuff that you know, tech’s siloed and don’t focus on, but when you’re a CEO, you get to have those intimate conversations with people who are very knowledgeable like yourself, and I love that. Yeah, it was really nice. You know, I um I really enjoyed that dinner because I’m always down to have a good conversation. Yeah. But if you want to talk about like, you know, how many IOPS do you do? How many outpatients do you do? How many, you know, it’s like, no, let’s do you want to have an authentic conversation about helping people and if we can connect on that. Oh yeah. Then we can talk about this other stuff. So I really really love that. And from the moment that we had the opportunity to sit down, Cass’s like, “You got to meet Guy’s Grant.” I’m like, “He’s right next to you, babe.” You know, he’s like, “Yeah.” So it was it was really cool. And I would have um gone to that dinner over and over just to have that connection. Oh, you know, thousand times over. I went home to my wife and I said the same thing. I was like, you know, I was on the fence about whether or not to go and I think it was the best thing that’s happened to me in the last like 3 months. Like, yeah. Nothing like good quality connection. The things that you miss when you’re an active addiction. Mhm. Yep. Or when you’re trying to sell something, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. It’s tough because everybody I mean, at the end of the day, it’s business. People are trying to sell something, but I think there’s a much more connected way to get there, you know? I agree. So, like if we can align personally and professionally and then that’ll just happen. It happens organically when you least expect it, when you don’t try to manipulate it, when you don’t try to push your agenda onto it, when you let when you let go and you let God. Yep. Things fall into place, man. Yeah. Were you a 12step guy? No. Never. I’ve worked them. I think everyone should work them regardless of if you’re in recovery because you’ll understand yourself a lot better than if you hadn’t. Mhm. But for me, it was all about connecting through things that I’m passionate about. I love that it’s music, working out, um, playing games, throwing darts. I love that. I’m actually glad I asked you that question because I didn’t think I was going to get that response, but it it’s an important response, I think, for the viewers, especially young adults. You know, we both get sober at a young age and it’s like, okay, now I have a life sense of mediocrity and shame. This ought to be great. But then you realize like I was thrusted into the 12step way of life because at the time they didn’t understand communities, communities, communities, communities. And that’s what worked though too. I mean at that time all the data said 12 steps keeps people clean. So we’re going to force that and push that and push that message. But there are plenty of people out here who don’t agree with that. They actually need a more holistic based approach like I have. But I love that your approach because you get to do something you’re passionate about. Oh hell yeah. Like if if I can do something I’m passionate about it means I’ll do it for free and I’ll do it sustainably one day at a time. And so I I love 12 steps. I was in it for seven years. We’re not knocking it. We’re not knocking it for sure. But I just want to introduce to people who are maybe uh weary of picking up the admissions phone to get on another call with an admissions guy who does a substance use program who’s going to put a box over your head and say, “You’re an alcoholic for the rest of your life. Do these 12 steps or die.” That that is an approach, but there’s a multitude of other approaches that are producing and procuring amazing outcomes. And that’s what we preach at Soulful. Yeah. There’s no one right way to be in recovery. It’s your journey and your path. And ultimately, you’re going to live with the consequences of what you choose to do. Yep. So, here’s all the tools. Here’s the different types of things that work. And you know what? If you discover a new thing that works for you, man, hell yeah. Share it with me. Yeah. Let us know. Yeah. And if you know what, if going to meetings, getting a sponsor, working those steps is what keeps you clean, keep doing it. Keep showing up. do a 90 and 90, you know, memorize a big book back and forth. That’s great. It’s not what worked for me and it’s not what works for everyone and that’s okay, too. The biggest thing, though, is how do we prevent stigmatizing and alienating those who don’t agree with AA and who don’t naturally gravitate to it and I think that’s where the holistic based approach comes in. And that’s where our philosophical approach to treatment comes in. I love that, man. Alleviate the shame instead of compound. Exactly. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And to understand too, it’s like substance users, even folks with mental health, um, non-substance related issues, mental health, the shame. We got to be able to address that that like there’s nothing you could say to the individual that they haven’t already told themselves times 100. And so people are coming in with this concrete block of shame. And it’s our job as holistic providers to begin to plane that block a little bit to make it a little less lighter so they can lift up a little bit taller so they can see the sun a little bit more clearly. Yeah. you know, so I love that you guys do that. So I I like to ask this question too and it’s not I used to we the core value of disrupt the industry through quality of care used to be like I’m just going to be disruptful to be disruptful. Remember when my brother and I developed it, it was like because we’re peaks and you’re you. And it’s it’s not like that at all. It’s to disrupt the industry through a one conversation at a time. It’s um one individual at a time, one guest in our program at a time seeing value in hearing them disrupts this thing that I call behavioral health. And so one of my questions to you is like if you could change anything about the industry, what would it be and why? One of the biggest things holding Colorado back, specifically our behavioral and mental health services, is legislation. Are you familiar with Taber? Uh-uh. So 1992 they passed uh this Taber law that essentially restricts the amount of God I’m going to butcher this too so I don’t want to speak out of turn. A I’m not a legislator. You know I know a little bit about this topic. He’s summarizing. So there’s it it limits the amount of taxes we can allocate toward Medicaid and other services in Colorado. Caps the spending budget. Okay. And it’s tied to inflation and population size. But the thing that happened since 1992 is Colorado’s boomed in the last 33 years. So what we’ve seen is uh the needs of the community in Colorado outpacing the fiscal resources we’ve allocated to it 33 years ago. So what’s happened is you have a bunch of people who need Medicaid. You got 1.2 million in Colorado who are Medicaid dependent. And and when our when legislation hasn’t caught up where it’s really hard to revise, our legislators are taxed with two things. They can either cut back Medicaid services, which is what we’re seeing, or they can limit where they spend their resources, like schools. And we’re seeing a little bit of both. So, you’re seeing if you’re a Medicaid provider right now like we are, they’re cutting back rates. Big one. And now $25 a therapy session doesn’t seem like a lot, but it adds up. Same with every other service that you can bill for. They’re cutting out some codes altogether. So, you can’t bill for certain ones. And then they’re limiting the amount of times you can render that service. So, what it’s doing is what what is needed is now no longer a profitable business model. I.e. be sober living. I think you might agree with me on that. Yeah, I knew you would. So, sober living is a and we’ve seen the boom happen in Colorado with sober living. Would you agree? Absolutely. And the reason that boom happened is because the business models for that changed. They were more profitable because they were able to charge for ancillary services like peer coaching. Right. But what we’ve seen in the last since July 1st and what we’re going to see in January 2026 is all that crunched back in because we’re in a billion dollar deficit, right? So, we’re stuck in what will be a cycle of reduction in services, namely Medicaid, population services, and and you’re going to see programs like sober livingings really struggle. If they don’t adapt, they’re going to die. Yeah. And so my what I would say to answer your original question is more sober living programs and then higher Medicaid rates to be able to afford to expand those sober living programs and provide more ancillary services. But we’re going to be stuck in this cycle of regurgitate and repeat and failure unless you adapt your lines of business. So yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I didn’t know the but I’d like to change that as well. You know what’s interesting is not just Medicare, but all of our top five f uh top five big payers in the United States, Blue Cross, Edna, Sigma, United Healthcare, you name it. They’re oftentimes producing and informing their rates through Medicare fee schedules. Yeah. And so for those who don’t know, CMS is the Center for Medicaid Services and they have, you know, programs like what you’re saying, like BCBS will say, I’ll pay you 110% of what the Medicaid services. So if you get paid $100 for therapy, we’ll pay you $110 for that, which is what Chris is talking about. It’s interesting, too, because they’re And I wonder if that’s going to be impacted on the private insurance side because last I checked, most of those companies, if not all of them, are fedally funded. Yep. And additionally privately held. Yep. are publicly held. Excuse me. Yes. Right. Yeah. So, it’s very interesting. So, I wonder if there’s going to be and we’re seeing it on our side of things, but I didn’t know that it was this Medicaid thing informing it, but now that you’re talking about it, it seems to be Well, for what it’s worth, I’m talking about Colorado Medicaid. Okay. Specifically, but yes, federally speaking to Medicaid’s going to with the big beautiful bill, I imagine things will be also taking a hit federally. It’s a big wonder to me why we have private insurance anyway. Yeah. Well, people have been trying to solve for it forever. Some countries have figured it out. Ours hasn’t. Yeah. Unfortunately. What is your favorite thing about soulful recovery? Like your daytoday job, your passion, your purpose. Obviously, you’re a business guy. You love numbers. You know, actually, not well, I do like numbers. I love people. I So, when we first launched, I had this golden rule for myself. I will always take on at least one client for peer coaching. Full stop. That’s cool. I you now I have a case load of three but like and it expands based on needs and if we have capacity or you know where my where my capacity is at personally. Yeah. But connecting with the people who we serve boom that’s it. And if I’m not there on the grounds understanding their impact and and feeling it and being part of it and being able to provide direct care, then I lose a little bit about why we’re doing it and I get stuck behind a spreadsheet. And that’s not how I want to show up as, you know, an owner, let alone a person in recovery or someone who’s trying to make change. I mean, at the my core being is helping people. Yeah. Always has been. That’s always been fundamental to who I am. And so I’ve always wanted to retain that. But to answer your question, what I love doing at Soulful is everything. I love that my mind gets to bounce around from like, you know, like in a computer you have like 20 tabs open. I love bouncing around from those 20 tabs every day. It’s perfect for my ADHD brain. And now I know why my parents always told me that some of the best CEOs have ADHD. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz when you can find a passion, you can focus on it. Yeah. Oh, it’s a fun game. Oh, yeah. And you can still see everything with the greater vision in mind. So you can bounce around from those 20 tabs knowing that you have an entire window over here labeled vision. Yeah. And you get to build those 20 tabs as they should fit within that global vision. And it’s the coolest thing ever. It really is. Putting the pieces together is a I know you love that. Yeah. We’ve talked about it. Yeah. And I you know one of my questions was what keeps you so passionate on tough days? But I think you just defined it and I actually really relate to that. Yeah. Well, I’d say the other thing, too, is, you know, something else you probably relate to is when you’ve gone through it yourself. Yeah. You remember what it’s like to be in that pit of despair. I mean, I keep a note in my wallet and when I ever think, “Oh, you know what? A a little bowl of weed sounds like a good idea.” I read that note and I’m happy to read it. Wallet or whatever. Oh, that’s cool. Good idea. Yeah. Yeah. And so, I read that note every now and then. It’s called the truth and it’s my Don’t forget the truth. Yeah. Cuz your truth. It’s my truth. Yeah. And every time without failure I get shivers down my spine and I remember what it’s like to be that kid who’s uncomfortable his own skin, that business owner who’s uncomfortable in his own skin, and that person who needs help navigating. And I can look back at that note and remember what it was like to be in that place and how I never want to be there again. And I get the opportunity even if it’s with one client or with my staff when we have our staff meetings to project how are we helping this person today? What is their need? What is their experience within our program? How do we make meaningful change for one life? Yeah. And that’s it, man. Yeah. I love that. That’s profound. I really love owner operators with recovery stories and a willingness to gain business acumen. Yeah. You know, it’s it’s really really cool that you know you see so many not so many but you know handful of places like you know people don’t know their CEOs and don’t know their owners and people come to Peaks and they’re like what do you do here? I’m like I kind of front as a recovery cheerleader and then eventually I’m like I’m a founder here. They’re like wow that’s so cool. I never tell people I’m the founder. Yeah. I don’t like doing it. I’m always like, I’m just a dude in recovery. How can I help you? Yeah. I’m the pom pom guy. Yeah. And then and we’re at meetings and or like Gabby and I go to networking events and I’m like, you know, I work at this place called Soulful Recovery. I never let anyone know I’m like the CEO unless Gabby’s like should tell them, you know, and I’m like, I don’t I don’t need to. That’s cool. Cuz at the end of the day, I want to hear people’s perspectives without me having to interject. The moment you say it’s your company, conversation changes. Conversation changes. Perspectives change and you can’t have those or you can, but it’s sometimes difficult. They’re they’re clouded in biases and heruristics. Yep. I agree. It’s so interesting you say that. My business partner, one of them, uh, Bobby, he does all the hikes. So, four days a week, they’re going out to drum circle, garden of the gods, and nobody knows he’s an owner. Yeah. He’s just like shooting the [  ] just having a good time. He’s like, “Dude, I don’t want any of them to know.” He’s like, “They share openly and we talk about it.” I’m like, “Yeah, fuck.” So, excuse me. You know, but just like getting people to speak openly and not feel like And you know what? That speaks tremendous lengths not just for Bobby but for your program. The fact that it’s I think personally like an ego thing. Mhm. But you know if you let your ego die and you’re able to just say I’m just this person showing up today how I am hopefully in a good way. Yeah. Like Bobby on those hikes like you when you’re talking with new clients coming in. That’s the difference between people who are comfortable in their own skin and who show up to be them best their best selves. Personal beliefs. I agree. Yeah. I agree with you. I do this um I spoke last night at our alumni group. So impatient clients, impatient guests and handful of alumni and I played this song before I walk out. Which one? Diamond by Rihanna. All right. Shine by Diamond. Not what I thought you completely. I’m going to give a shout out to to Kathleen Murphy. She’s one of my favorite clinicians. She’s in Southern California. I saw her at TJ Woodward’s concert. Not concert conference last year. What is the name of the freaking conference? I’ll think about it. Not this. Emergence. Oh, okay. Emergence 2024. I’m in Emergence 2024. Best conference I’ve ever been to. Very small, very intimate. I never had a conversation that was under 15 minutes. Okay. I mean, just each and there’s only about four, three, 400 people. Very intimate, hand selected. So, they’re doing um they did a panel and and I I was on the panel, not because I was doing anything, it was because I sponsored it. Yeah. So, I was on the panel, but before me, this lady named Kathleen Murphy got up. And she has the most beautiful energy, the most beautiful soul. And you can just tell when she talks like just a seasoned clinician. Oh, yeah. And she goes, “Before I speak, I like to play a little song, you know, to like she starts doing it. She’s dancing around. She has the whole room, man. the whole room’s doing the thing. I’m like, “This is amazing.” So, I spoke last year. I was speaking at um our uh executive clinical director, Dr. Prince, is also the executive director at a nonprofit here in town called ECOC. Okay. Educating children of color. It’s a really cool nonprofit. We’ve had um Magistrate Regina on the show. She’s the founder and they do this really cool thing. So, she she plugs me in to go talk to the kids sometimes. I’ll go talk to the kids and I started playing that song. Shout out to Kathleen Murphy. So last night I was like, “Hey everybody, like a little song to get me going here.” And I play it and I’m dancing around. Um, and I tell the story of when I saw Kathleen Murphy, I thought to myself, boy, does she seem really comfortable in her own skin. And every time I play that song, it’s an exercise to get into my body, to be present, to be comfortable in my own skin. And so if you can shine bright like a diamond and dance around and frankly I um I never knew I could shine bright like a diamond. I thought I loved you peak level before. Pun intended. That just brought it to new heights, man. Let’s go. Yeah. People are blown away. I’m like maybe you guys know this song. They’re like, “Oh, no way. He’s doing it.” It’s a little indie song. Shine bright like a diamond. Well, it’s been phenomenal having on your show. I want to end with this one thing and you’ve answered it in a myriad of ways but I just kind of want to hone in on it specifically is what’s your why? Ooh, what’s our why? Well, I I have answer that in some other ways, but I’ll leave you with this.
My business partner and our wives, we went, you know, the recovery walk, the um advocates for recovery. So, we hosted the photo booth um this year and we, you know, we didn’t know what we were fully getting into, but uh we saw everyone come in, you know, they did their recovery walk and they had their families there, they had signs, you know, pride flags, all the things that you want to see when you’re like, you’re living your best life, your best sober life. Mhm. And we had clients come up to us after, former clients, alumni who were still in recovery, some who I knew, some who, you know, we haven’t had contact with, but they’re still clean. We’ve had we had uh current clients come up. And hearing someone say, “You changed the course of my life.” is the most powerful motivator in the world. You know, I uh I used to be a firefighter and EMT. I saw and I was really into emergency care and like I thought to be the best person I could. That’s how I was going to help people, right? Is in those moments when they’re going through their most traumatic things. And I didn’t realize that it’s actually or in addition to people who are in early recovery or still in the pits of despair and need someone to just reach down with a hand and help pull them out. And and that was it for me. Just being able to speak with our alumni, getting to see clients, and seeing them in person and their smile on their face was just it made everything, all the sleepless nights, all the worrying about money, all the the mortgages, the the things that you’re like, man, is this going to work? Is what I’m doing helping people? Like, it makes it it makes everything worth it. Yeah. And I would do it a thousand times over. I love that, man. Yeah. I love that. one of my uh favorite podcasters. I’ve said it on the show a million times. Coup’s probably like, “Dude, shut up already.” Um but Rich Roll, he’s in long-term recovery. Um he swam at the University of Stanford, just about lost everything, and now he’s like 20 years sober. But he he has this quote, and the people I bring on the show, but more specifically right now, what you just said reminds me of this, and I think that’s why we’re here today and we’ll be here tomorrow, is when the heart is true, the universe will conspire to support you. Yeah, I’ve heard that before. Yeah. Every time. Goosebumps. It’s so good. Like when I say that, people are like, “Whoa.” I’m like, “Stop my quote.” Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So, and and I and I I feel that in our interactions and I feel that in our opportunity to help um walk with people one day at a time on this journey. So, it’s the coolest job in the world. It’s rad. It’s the coolest job. It beats firefighting by any means. Don’t you love when people are like, you know, you tell them what you do for a living, they’re like, “Oh.” I’m like, “Poor thing. What? What are you talking about?” Every time it’s always a sympathy must be so hard for you. I’m like sometimes but it’s actually pretty freaking awesome. It’s amazing. Like the people, the places, the stories, the connection. I mean everything. It hits all the right notes. There’s like a beautiful symphony that you’re currently writing and the end of our lives. I’m hoping to hear it and just feel proud. Yep. I love that, man. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. It’s been an absolute privilege and an honor to connect with you again. I look forward to many more of these. We love to bring you on quarterly, talk about what Soulful’s doing to change the industry one day at a time and more specifically lives one day at a time. So, thank you so much for coming on, Grant. Love you, man. Let’s go, buddy. I love you, too, man. Thanks again for having me. You got it. Absolutely. For anybody, this is the holiday season. Um, you know, if you’re finding yourself disconnected, isolated, all alone, reach out. There’s a tremendous amount of resources. [ __ ] our admissions team will just talk to you. Yes. Listen first, solve later. Just have a conversation. Just know that there’s some crazy guys here in Colorado that are thinking about you and care deeply about your success. So, until next time, peace.