Episode 151 Carrying the Weight: The Unseen Life of First Responders
Watch Now https://youtu.be/TExf14gIzI4 Listen Now Description

In this impactful episode of Finding Peaks, Chris Burns sits down with Curtis Curran, a retired New Mexico State Police Officer, for a candid and heartfelt conversation about the realities of life as a first responder. Curtis opens up about the unseen weight law enforcement officers carry daily, sharing personal stories that highlight both the challenges and the deep sense of purpose that come with the badge. From the responsibility of delivering next-of-kin notifications to the importance of mental health support, therapy, and sharing trauma, Curtis brings an honest perspective to the human side of policing. This conversation offers insight, gratitude, and a powerful reminder of the dedication it takes to serve and protect. Thank you, Officer Curtis, for your service and ongoing commitment to your community.

Talking Points Introduction to the Show Meet Officer Curtis Curran Police training Next of kin responsibility Fighting for people who can’t The emotional backpack Therapy on the force Training in discomfort Fatherhood on the force Life since retirement From the streets to the schools A message to first responders Final thoughts Quotes “I think the toughest people in my eyes, the absolute toughest, are the ones who can say ‘hey, I need some help’”. – Curtis Curran Episode Transcripts





Episode -151- Transcripts

I think often times we look at law enforcement in the community and we’re like, “Oh, they write tickets and they take you to jail.” But I think we’re missing a tremendous foundation of which, you know, you you show up and fight, especially passionate officers like yourself, you show up and fight for people who can’t. You know, we’re those ducks, you know, we’re floating underneath where inside I’m a mess, too. You know, it’s like this is hard, you know. Yeah. The first step to fixing a problem or an issue in your life is admitting that you have one. Yeah. That can that can be the toughest thing. But we we we put the stuff away to go to the next to go to the next.
Hey everybody and welcome to another amazing, exciting, and of course yours truly the most enthusiastic ever, Chris Burns, president and founder. so grateful to be here and today to be joined by a good friend uh both in jiu-jitsu and in life. And uh we have Curtis Curran here today. He’s a 22year uh police veteran in uh New Mexico. He’s worked all across different uh branches and resourced the community in a lot of different ways. But uh since we’ve gone in network here at Peaks Recovery, we’ve started to see a lot of first responders and certainly with our Triricare Tri West contracts online. We’re seeing a lot of military folks, combat veterans, their families, and um it’s been my experience over the last couple of years since we started seeing these individuals that they’re one of the most underserved populations and underresourced. You know, their ability to reach out for help um is blocked often times by a variety of things including mental health issues, trauma, and uh scarcity in the environment. So, I couldn’t be more grateful today to be joined by a good friend and brother Curtis. Thanks for joining us. The honor is mine. Thank you so much for having me. Yes, sir. Absolutely. And we’ve gotten some roles in in jiu-jitsu. And I’ve talked a lot about on this show how community often comes in a variety of different ways. And my community lately, certainly my recovery community is at jiu-jitsu. I like to be a part of something where people aren’t showing up with beers in their hand. And if they are, they’re getting their butts kicked. So grateful to be joined by you today. Um 22 years. Yes, sir. All right. in that 22 years. We talked about it a little bit before the show, but for the viewers, maybe describe a little bit about what you did in that 22 years, some of the jobs you’ve had. Um, and we’ll just kick it off there. Yeah, absolutely. Um, well, I served with the New Mexico State Police. Cool. Um, I went in, yeah, 01. Um, our academy started. I chose that agency um because it was it was a 16week living academy then. It’s changed now. I still live in but still longer. And my understanding and the research I had done even talking to other police officers who were in the field and other agencies said no you need to go there for the training like they will train you and yeah they train me. So I mean again living it was pretty much very much like uh the Marine Corps. It was run that way. everything was military um dress right dress you know all that type of stuff. So that was a not shock but that was you know that was an adjustment and I went in at a later age. I went in at 31. Okay. You know um I spent a lot of time not wandering but doing things and not really sure what I was going to end up but part of me always wanted to be in law enforcement. And I guess I can also lead into a story of how I actually finally did it. The movie Gladiator came out. Russell Crow. Yeah. Get the year with probably 2001. Went to see that movie one night. And I’m a guy. I go to movie, have my popcorn, have my Well, I was told later that eating those little kernels, you know, the ones that get stuck in your teeth, that stuff had blocked the entrance to my appendix. Mhm. So ultimately ended up with an appendix rupture. I’m sure which I was very stubborn and I dealt with for probably 48 hours. Oh wow. Before I finally gave in to go get medical attention and it was probably I was probably on my deathbed without realizing it cuz I had already ruptured and leaked. And so anyways in the hospital I go through all that. I I spent 9 days at the hospital, lose 20 lbs, and in that hospital, I made that decision. I said, I I need to do what I said I was going to do. And that was the law enforcement thing. Mhm. So, pretty much just got out of that. I recovered very quick. Nor people go in right away when they Yeah. I’m I’m not that smart, Chris. I think we’ve we talked about this offline. Uh I’m very stubborn. I’m very tolerant to pain sometimes and that’s good and bad at the same time, right? Like the blessings I have in me are also some of the things that that may not be good. Sure. Um the plus was um I’m like you. I I I I was fitness orientated. You know, I was always beating myself up in the gym or doing something. So that aided my my recovery. I got out of the hospital after that nine days. A week later I was cleared 100%. And they were like, “It’s very odd that people get cleared 100%, but you’re cleared.” And they think it’s just because of the way I I my body was before. Yeah. So, you know, having these things in my corner, I pushed it. But I made that decision. I am doing this period. So, that’s how I got there. Um, the academy was um, man. Wow. You know, the the onslaught that came at you. It was four months. It was four months. you live there, you know, you all go in with your family and they greet you and they’re like, “Hey guys, you know, blah blah blah.” And then they kick your family out and then the reality is all that nice guy stuff goes away. Kaboom. You’re like, “Ah.” I mean, I remember to the point where you’re you’re running with your stuff and then you’re trying to put a key in a in a and they’re yelling at you and you’re like, “Ah.”
So you you know it was a lot a lot going on but I knew in my heart that I wanted to be there and in my mind I just always said I don’t have to like it I just have to do it whatever comes whatever comes you know tie your shoe you didn’t tie your shoe right okay yes sir you know you just take it and go you start building that mentality they start building you when to start kind of wiping away some potential deficiencies I’m not going to say that that’s really it but trying to wipe away certain part of you and bring back a different party, right? So, get through that. And I remember I mean I had uh you know a great aunt of mine who was pretty much like a grandmother. She passed away while I was in that academy you know and I stayed you know I didn’t go to the funeral. So that’s something, you know, again, I put in my backpack of things that don’t know if that was the right decision or not, but my focus was I was so driven to get through this and be what I said I was going to be, you know. Mhm. And I also had another setback in the academy. Um, I I blew my knee out, you know, total ACL tear. And I remember sitting down with the the academy staff and this was week six. So I already gone through the probably the hardest part where they’re not saying eliminating but we’re trying to to see who’s going to be the final recruits to graduate. So I made it through that part and I remember them coming to me and them all standing around me and just these guys in uniform that I aspire to be like um it’s it’s kind of a chain of things. There’s so much here, right? Like I have officer Andrew Tingwall who’s I’ll potentially mention later said and officer Joshua Chavez. These guys are just monsters to me. You know, they’re the drill instructors. Um and they’re like, “What do you want to do?” I’m like, “Uh, I have a choice.” I said, “I’ll do whatever I have to do, but I’m not leaving.” And this is me, little me, telling them I’m not leaving, which they could be like, “Yeah, yeah, you are, actually.” You know what I mean? Like today like, “Yeah, you are cuz we can’t take that liability of the medical issue.” Mhm. And so they like look at each other, they go, “Okay.” And they walk out and I’m like, “What just happened?” You know? So that week was the beginning of our defensive tactics, which you know, kind of how you and I met the fighting stuff, the ground control stuff. And I’m like, “Crap,” you know? So, I remember sitting out that first week at the brace and I’m on my little crutches and I’m I’m watching the class and I’m like, “This is cool, but I’m not learning it, but I’m I’m watching, you know, and that’s what they they’re good with me there, you know, but they’re kind of not like have me off to the side and they’re ignoring me because I’m not part of everything, right?” I remember the next morning they call us out and I come running out without the crutches and I remember Josh Chavez, Joshua Chav, a training officer. He just looks at me, you know what I mean? Yeah. And this man, I’m hopefully he sees this. Um gosh, I I like to say I’m a tough dude, but there are there are dudes that tough dudes are scared of. Yeah. He’s that guy. Yeah. Bull rider. Just tough fighter. just man just tough. But to have him just kind of, you know, if it was somebody else, you probably like, “What are you doing? Get your, you know, you’re broken. Go back.” Blah blah blah blah, right? And I went through I went through the rest the rest of the entire academy like that just on one leg. So, it was an accomplishment for me. It meant something. Graduating meant something. Um, getting out into the field. I was, you know, I lived in Albuquerque, but you rarely get to go where you live when you come out, especially if it’s Albuquerque. Albuquerque is kind of a dream destination as a as a state police officer. So, I ended up going out to Grants and Gall, which are west of the state off of I40, close to Arizona. Blessing, great place to work. Guys were tight. You got to know everybody. Um, uh, my supervisors were great. Um I was out there went through training with the you know two training two different training officers got to learn the job see the job put myself into the job how I would do like you pick from this training officer what you like and then then you build yourself into that and I feel as you know going in as later age I was already a a decent person um and I chose the profession because I it was just it was in me it was a calling and I feel like it’s that profession where you you you volunteer to fight for people who can’t fight for themselves, you know, um it’s it’s me, you know, so it just all really made sense, you know. It all made sense. But then there was a time when okay, well, I still had the knee issue, you know, so I get through get through my coach officer per I get on my own. That basically means like now I have my own car, call on the radio from my driveway, go out, you know, it’s just it’s all me. It’s it’s we are very proactive in that area. You know, we do our own thing and we get our calls for service, crashes, whatever. So, of course, that’s a whole another stuff of things I’ve seen done. Then it was a time when it was time to to go ahead and address the knee and get it fully taken care of. So, um I did that department gave me nine months to to to be gone necessarily and get the knee address fixed, surgery and all that. I came back in three. So again, shows you like, yeah, this is where I want to be. And that I thank that to a therapist, his name was Jose, who um I walked into his his his office and he he he I’m assuming he did a research before I got there, but he said, “All right, walk over there and walk back.” So I walk over there and I walk back. He goes, “Okay, you have a screw here. You have this here.” I’m like, “Oh, dang.” You know, like he by the way I walked, he was terming this. He says, “What do you do for living?” I said, “Um, I’m a state police officer.” He goes, “When do you want to get back to work?” I said, “Yesterday.” So, he goes, “Then he looks at the paperwork I had in my hand, which is with a prescription of come in twice a week for 30 minutes.” He goes, “Well, he tore that up, threw it to the side and said, “You’ll be here every day.” I said, “You’ll be here every day, probably four hours a day.” And I was like, “I’m good. I’m good with that.” Mhm. He kicked the crap out of me. And he said, “We’re not just going to work a knee. It’s your whole body. We’re going to work your whole body. Your whole body. Your whole body.” And then there were days I get in there like on a Friday, he could just look at me. He said, “I was I was just spent.” They would kick the crap out of me. It was like literally like every day, every pow pow bow bow. So he got me back, got me strong, got me going. And I went on and I and my career just went good, you know. And but the way I handled myself in that career was my goal was to be professional in the job and do the job right and and carry ethics and morale, you know, all those proper things. You know, if I’m op and I’m driving my vehicle, use maternity signal, stop a stop sign, do that thing because I didn’t feel that I could do that to people if they didn’t do if I didn’t act that way. Was I an angel? No. No. I wasn’t perfect. I was still young. But I really did try to operate that way, you know. on a traffic stops, I tried to get a thank you from the person that I just encountered, even though I was writing them potential citation for um whatever the violation might have been. Um so that that was good, you know, that was great. Um of course, I all my friends and family for the most part were in Albuquerque and I’m still in Grants in the Gallup area, which again was a great area to work. Finally, I did get moved into the Albuquerque area. Um once I got Albuquerque, it was a different system. get used to it. People weren’t as tight. So, you were kind of on your own as an officer. I had some definitely had some friends, but you weren’t as tight as you were in those outlining areas in the state police. Probably smaller teams and those other It’s a You had a small team, but it was only you guys in Albuquerque. Coming to Albuquerque as a state police officer, you’re not really running 911 calls because the Albuquerque Police Department’s handling those or the Bernal Leo County Sheriff Department is handling those. Okay. Your calls are more like, “Hey, there’s a crash on the interstate. There’s a crash over there.” You know, you’re not going to the domestics violence situations. you’re not going to those type of things that you did prior in in the other areas where you were the number one the number one in a municipal like here would be the city you know so we didn’t see those type of calls so you had to make yourself useful and and produce your own work right so doing that for a little bit and a buddy of mine his name is Curtis also my best friends he uh he fought to to develop a a DWI unit to to stop impair drivers. Well, lo and behold, that that succeeded. I ended up on that unit with him. Um, and we did that for nine years. Oh, wow. To the point where we instructed, we obviously we testified in court. We got better. We got better. We got our butts kicked initially, but we we built I’m not say alliances, but you know, attorneys would come in and just wipe the floors with us cuz they were sharp at that. Well, we turn around and go pick their brains and sit with them and learn. And then we develop these relationships where we got very strong on what we did. And and I know we did it the right way. I know Curtis’s character. Um he knows mine. It we did it the right way. Like it it it mattered how we did it and why we did it, if that makes any sense. It wasn’t just for numbers. I I realized I was taking people’s freedoms, but to me it was like I am preventing you from crashing into her potentially later. You don’t know that, but that’s why I’m here. And a lot of it came because we had to do every now and then, especially before we got on that unit next of kins. Like I I that’s the worst thing ever. I wasn’t trained to to go into They probably didn’t tell you that in training that you’re going to be doing this. Really? They don’t spend time, you know, like here I am walking to your house. I’m in uniform and uniform kind of menacing potentially. I’m I’m 6 feet tall, too. And I’m about to tell you the worst information that I could deliver. And it it was hard, right? It watching the reaction and then and this was before I even had a family. It would be really hard now. So part of the desire to be on that DWI unit was to be ahead of that. Does that make sense? Yeah. Ahead of that crash, ahead of that potential fatality. And I could tell you that while we were on that unit, we didn’t have to do those. Was it a goal of yours to get with the family before like the coroner? That’s like the decent thing to do, right? It Well, yes. It was kind of our responsibility to and you could, you know, pick up the phone and call, hey, by the way, you know, it was show up and pay that respect, you know. Yeah. And I could tell you kind of a one that really got me. I had one my sergeant calls me and say, “We need to do a next to kin in this is a remote area.” So, I had to get out there, right? He said, “But we’re not 100% sure if this is his residence or not.” Oh, wow. So I had to go to the residence and then Hey, do you know Joe? Yeah. And Joe have two elbows, you know what I mean? Like we had to go Yeah. drive this and do that. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. Well, by the way, he is passed. You know what I mean? It wasn’t it was like what like had to like first like what do you do now to and just deliver that and I remember that one. I was like God walking down that and I did that one. I was by myself on that one and I was like, man, I don’t want to do that again. Like that was hard to to do the ID and then deliver the news and then watch the the fallout and be there for the fallout, you know, and then how do you excuse yourself out of that? How do you what do you do? You know, do you you the reactions are so there’s so many reactions, you know, you could have four people, one runs into the kitchen, one falls on the ground, one looking at you like, I understand, sir. You know what I in and then one’s like you’re like do I what do I do? Who am I now? You know what’s what’s my purpose here? I’m grateful you shared that cuz it’s I think often times we look at law enforcement in the community and we’re like oh they write tickets and they take you to jail. But I think we’re missing a tremendous foundation of which you know you you show up and fight especially passionate officers like yourself. You show up and fight for people who can’t and that involves a plethora of things and potentially delivering that news what could be someone’s worst day of their life. That’s heavy. It’s hard, you know. And I remember doing one with Curtis, and Curtis is close to my size, one of the toughest guys, I know, best friends. And both of us just delivering news together. And we were both was like just inside, you know, we’re those ducks, you know, we’re floating underneath where inside I’m a mess, too. You know, it’s like this is hard, you know. Um it was tough. It was really tough. and and that was again it helped uh when we did that work later because it was very preventative of that you know but I do have a good I don’t like I call it a good story but we we had um there was a passing of a a Texas DPS officer and I was working a a graveyard shift a night shift and I got assigned and I’m very honored for this and um I got assigned to the the officer had a sister that was in the Albuquerque area that needed to get out to Texas. So my job was throw her in my car and so I did and put her in my car and we all asked I mean it was middle of night. It was night time just on I4 just and was to deliver her to another officer to get her to be by her brother. That makes sense. And minimal conversation, you know, but the honor to get her out there, it was huge. It was one of the big most things they don’t talk about, but it I thought that was an amazing thing. I’m not going to say I loved every minute of it, but it meant something. Yeah. To get her closer to him as fast as possible. And it was literally like it was dark out. Boom. 110, 120, 130, 140, we were gone. Yeah. I mean, we were moving and she was there right there with me. And my job’s I’m getting you there. I’m getting you there. Period. Getting you there. Wow. Yeah. That’s huge. You know, you you spoke about something on the front end. You talked about your backpack, putting stuff in the backpack. And I had to assume that you’re in the 16 weeks of this intense training, who you said is one of the better academy trainings around. I have to imagine that they didn’t tell you about the backpack and all the things you were going to have to put in there. Yeah. No. So, one of my questions is why do first responders have to put that stuff in a backpack because of the next thing because there’s always something you got to show back up for, right? The next thing. So, you don’t have time to process. And in fact, processing would delay you being able to show up presently for your friend that you had to drive to Texas. Wow. that and then you know there’s there’s stigma. Yeah. We’ve talked about this in you know other conversations. Um
you you build yourself into this thing like we talked about said I want to fight for people who can’t fight for themselves. So what are you fighting? You’re fighting potential monsters. Well what do you have to become to fight a monster? Kind of have to be a monster. And I’m one of those firm believers as the more you climb or the more you build into something, you have to leave something else out. Yeah. You know what I mean? And what that is, it could be anything. You know, some people go, “Oh, it’s a shoe collection. I just can’t be to too attached to my shoe collection anymore. I got to be this.” For me,
I guess you got to get selfish and you got to get uh just sensitivity stuff has to you know can’t I don’t have time for that you know so you know law enforcement first responders fire we we tend to have that gallows humor where we’re at a horrible scene like I think there was a scene over here and we’re kind of laugh about things not laughing at the scene not to be disrespectful towards the victims but it’s how we cope with being there the smells the I mean there’s smells now that would trigger me to like you know what I mean there maybe even songs that might trigger me like oh I remember you know so we we we put this stuff away to go to the next to go to the next and some of the things we put away are an argument with my wife or something that happened at home can’t deal with that right now because I can’t carry that out there you know I’m one of those firm believers where I can get shot in the elbow and live or I can get shot in the elbow and die if I give Does that make sense? So, absolutely. We put this armor on. We put this armor on. We put this stuff away. Put some armor. Well, when you retire, got this armor on. I’ve got this backpack. Like, you know, I still want some of the armor, but I don’t need all this armor. I don’t want to walk around looking at everybody like, can I kick that guy’s butt? Can I, you know what I mean? Like, uh, I don’t want I don’t want that anymore. Yeah. I know my skill set. I still teach shooting. I’m in jits with you. We’re doing things. I still have that, but I don’t want to be that, you know? And that’s the hard part to let go of. And I still have this backpack. I have this back like right now in my backpack in my head, I’m going over the things that could have been and those any one of those things does not have me in this chair right now. Does that make sense? Like close call. The things that could have been, I easily not be here. Easily. And I’m not gonna say any of it’s necessarily a skill thing. It’s just the way things went and potential luck, you know, and there were some skills like, “Oh, I need to do this, that, technically be sound and that that saves me versus being blind.” Um, but there’s a lot of close calls that when you get out and you start looking back, you start looking back, you start to whoa, whoa, whoa. You know, so I’m kind of I’m in that world dealing with some of that. Mhm. I’m dealing with some of the things I’ve seen, not so much some of the things I’ve done because I I really believe that I was righteous and I and I and I did things a good way. I didn’t want to be that type of police officer you had a bad experience with cuz I’ve had bad experiences with police officers. I didn’t want to be that. Uh I’m not going to say that’s how everything worked out, but my goal was not to treat people bad until I had to or whatever. So just a ton of stuff, you know, ton of that. Ton of that. 25 years ago, you know, it’s different. It’s a little bit different now. A lot of people talk about mental health. They talk about therapy and they talk about external resources. Did you know anybody 25 years ago when you started that was, “Hey, man. I I I’m actually getting therapy with this guy. It’s working out really well.” Did you hear any of that going on? I I can’t I know that we had post teams and teams like that. We had officers that would pass away. We had we had opportunities But I was young. Mhm. You know, I’m putting the armor on still. I’m running at stuff when I really should be walking because I’m going to get there either way. You know what I mean? So, you’re not hearing what you need to hear early because you’re you’re blocking it. Honestly, you’re moving on and and you’re you’re you’re running and gunning. You’re you’re the first. You’re you’re you’re chasing stuff that you can walk after. You’re So, it existed. I’m not I don’t want to you know burn the department cuz whatever happens they they were aware of it but the stigma was very old-fashioned then you know me a little more now and that’s why like you know I want to put the message out as as 200lb man fighting man this and that hey we all we’re all none of us are 100% like we do our job a professional But we carry some of that with us. So it was there but I not say blind to it. I chose to not look at it as much. I didn’t really look into the mental health until um the pregnancy of my daughter. I have a daughter. She’s 21 years old. Um she during pregnancy she was diagnosed with some major tumors and potentially may not you know ability of even being born. Wow. And uh her mom which we’re great friends. Ah man we’re all great. I’m so blessed for the family that we all have. We’re not together now but we’re great friends. Um, you know, I was there through the appointments, through the things, and her mom would just fall apart. You know, I get it. But I never had the time and we weren’t together. Mhm. So, she’d fall apart and I’d be there and then she’d go be with her and I’d kind of go wander off and be on my own. And then I was at that point where, man, I tell my family, but this is such a bad situation. I don’t want them to hurt either. So I delayed on that. So basically I carried it all myself but I didn’t have the shoulder to cry on that she did. So that was effective to me you know that that that that caught up to me. Um and so I sought therapy. I started seeking therapy then just because we weren’t together. She wasn’t happy about that and going through what she was going through. So there was a lot of things being said to me and about me and how worthless I potentially would be and all this and sure carried weight carried weight carried weight and then I remember talking to my sergeant he’s like well why don’t you take the time off and just I said I can’t I said sitting here hurts being out there I’m useful I need to be useful so I would backpack it y head on out and go do that and go do that and I never really had that that moment that time to fall apart. Mhm. Cuz the next thing came up, right? And in some places, in some ways, yeah, it made me tough. It made me how did it, you know? I I don’t know. It got me through the career. Thank God we we we went on. My daughter was born. We got through surgeries, multiple surgeries. She’s everything worked out. I mean, it’s it’s a it’s a a different lifestyle for her, but she’s she’s, you know, she’s excelling. Um, the families all were great as families. Two different families, but we all help each other. My family, her her uh their family, I mean, I can’t ask for better. I mean, we got past the things that were said and done cuz a lot of things were said that affected me. Um, I was a type of guy that, you know, you hit me with some sticks, ah, it hurts. But words from somebody that that meant something really really hurt me, you know. Um, so there was that that was in there, you know, and that was early in my career, you know. What did you get through when you were able to go into therapy? I know it was 21 years ago, but what did you draw from that experience that you didn’t have or were you able to peel the armor off back then at all? I had to be I had to be rescued in in some ways. I had to be reminded that I wasn’t going to be worthless, that I wasn’t going to be a bad fault, that I wasn’t cuz I was like, I was lost, you know? Uh there was a lot of things said and and we’re all past it now, but there was a lot of things said that really made me question who I was and who I was going to be and how I was going to get there. You know, but law enforcement, the job helped me. It gave me some purpose. You know, I was able to go out there and be impactful on other people’s lives, hopefully in a good way. But my own life was in in shambles. So, relate to that, man. It helped me. It was like, it was like a massage for the brain. It helped me. It helped remind me that I’m okay. And then, you know, and I and that therapist, man, I wish she was here in Colorado meant so much to me. And she’s been there. I mean, I I had her for 20 years after I stayed. Oh, good. Just continuous, you know, and we had several talks about several things. We got past that, but she always was just there for me. And she would always remind me that that you you do a job that’s just it’s just thankless, you know, and and unfortunately society the way they are that they don’t they don’t realize the burden that it takes us. that, you know, they’ll they’ll defund the police, they’ll make these comments to do this, to do that, and you know, I understand all that, but they’re not in those shoes. Yeah. You know, they’re not in the shoes. If they were in the shoes, then be different, but society’s not society’s changed. We’ve seen it in entitlement and this and that. You someone’s going to go fight for you. Well, you you got to support them. You may not like the way they’re doing it, but you’ve got to give them some support to do that fight for you. Because if they don’t fight for you, you have to fight. Y, but you’d rather fight them that are fighting for you. Politics of law enforcement changed and I’ve seen this and that. Um, but you need something like that. You need somebody out there because if you don’t, you’ll allow, you know, something in that you don’t want in. You want to protect. It’s so true. True. I mean, even in the pandemic, and we support the police here in Colorado Springs probably better than anywhere in the state. And I remember getting robbed in the pandemic. Some broke into my garage, took this, that, and the other thing. And it was 3 hours before law enforcement got there. And now it’s a lot better. But I think that people folks that are kind of, you know, non-supportive of that. They don’t understand. They’re not relational and friends with people like yourself who show up for people who can’t fight. And I have to imagine that a lot of the law enforcement that you worked with in your units were just like you. Yeah. you know, you’d hope so. I mean, it’s it’s a calling, right? It’s it’s kind of what you are. You’re passionate about what what what you deliver, you know, and I think you have to be passionate about this. Um, so, but society asked for this watered down system a little bit because they didn’t like that, you know, there’s bad officers. Sure, there’s, you know, there’s always going to be that, right? We go back to Rodney King, right? That that situation was horrible. But if I was there that night, Rodney King, the size of that man on PCP on a one a one-on-one. No way. No way. Yeah. But you also got to look at the pack that you get into this dynamic event dynam.
Mhm. Right. Like, oh, it’s over now. He’s subdued. It’s hard to just turn off unless you unless you’ve trained for that. Yeah. You know, it’s part of the reason why I do this. So, it’s probably reason why my strength condition and present high level. Yes. I I mean, I’ve been there, right? You know how to protect yourself. Yeah. You you have to protect yourself and you have to stop right now. And not every police officer knows how to do that. Yeah. No, I stopped some, believe it or not. Really? I’ve I’ve come across people, I I got them. And they’re coming because they just had 30 minute car chase with that person and they were in the red. I got him. I got him. I got him. Cool off. Yeah. Cool off. I got him. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like I’ve been there, right? But again, that’s stuff, all stuff that goes in the back. Like that turning off, right? I’m in the most dynamic. I’m in a fight for my life. Like I I got into it with a murderer one night. Turn off afterwards like like nothing. It’s never like nothing. Everything is something. Yeah. You know, break rake into a car getting ready potentially shoot a person. Didn’t have to. It’s not nothing. Yeah. you know, it it Oh, backpack backpack. I noticed, too, that we have a couple uh law enforcement guys at the gym. Um I think Andy and Tom and um they say that they’re able to go into these situations because they really know how to protect themselves and the last thing they do is grab their gun and they know as long as there’s no weapons or things like that or high-risisk stuff going on, they know they can be cool, calm, and collected. And I I feel like a lot of law enforcement, it would it would do them a lot of service for everybody to just roll jiu-jitsu. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I I think like for me um there’s a book called Warriors Mindset. Um second chapter is strength conditioning. I feel like the more uncomfortable I mean I know how you work out workouts can be uncomfortable. You’re pushing yourself but the more you do that the more you can handle the uncomfortable. Does that make sense? That makes a lot of sense. So we pushed ourselves to a point where like it hurts here but you get through it. And same with jiu-jitsu. It hurts, but you got to do it. And you learn a little bit every day. Learn a little bit every day. Train, train, train. You’re not exercising. You’re training to be better. You’re not exercising. That’s just wiggling around. You’re training. So, it’s like you’re you’re getting somewhere little by little that helps you later in a certain situation. Uh I know Tom. Well, like those situations that I’ve been in when I dealt with that the murder and I found out he was a murderer two days afterwards. Oh, shoot. So, I didn’t know it at the time. So, that’s part of the kicker, right? like, “Oh, yeah, we’re going to fight. I’ll keep,” you know, I won. You know, lucky. Um, but then later on, hey, come to the Albuquerque Police Department Homicide Division. Hey, what’s going on? Hey, yeah, that guy. Yeah, he was he murdered somebody two hours before and here’s the murder, the video of it. Like, whoa, dang. Now I know why he fought me, you know what I mean? Or why what his endgame was. I didn’t know that at the time. I had to deal with what I had to deal with. Read it and do it type of thing. You know what I mean? Back in the backpack, right? It gets in there. But I got through that situation because of how I trained and who I was. You know what I mean? Um, we talked about like hand on the gun. You don’t have to be. No, if you’re aware, pay attention. You, you know, you can get that thing out and fire two rounds in a second if you had to. All right. Or you know what you can do to clear your space to get that and do that. I teach that now and I do that now. But you can’t walk around like, “Hey, how are you?” you know, you know, because that sends a different message that sends that that sends a message you’re relying on this to save you. I rely on this to save me, right? And and I my goal was pay attention to your surroundings. Pay attention to that. Like that particular encounter with that gentleman, Curtis was dealing with him first and Curtis was going to put him on the ground. Guy did some time in jail. In jail, they practice how to beat us. A lot of stuff like that. He steps out of it, then I get a hold of him. I calm him down and then we get into it and then I dealt him. I put him little put him to sleep. Yeah. Um but it was slow motion for me. It was easy. Yeah. Now had that been Jon Jones a lot different would have been my day. Yeah. But I was highly trained. I was better than that guy at that moment and ready for that moment and not when I finished there was no continuation. There’s no no more to it was just done. Got him. Do you feel that piling up like the all these situations, events, scenarios, next to kin, babies dying, you know, that’s just another Wednesday. Do can you feel in your nervous system this grief adding up or was it not until you got out of law enforcement and retired that you were like poof, it was really top of mind? Yeah, I think it was more at the end. Okay. Um, right about 2 years before I retired. two years before I retire. Somewhere in there. 20 years in. Yeah. Like I’m I’m getting there, you know? I can see the end. I’m at the aircraft section. Great. We’re rescuing. We’re doing cool stuff. Stuff that like is dream job. Like like it’s a whole another level cuz you were special operations, right? Yeah. It was cool. We could talk about it. But one night I’m sleeping and bing, I woke up and I just I was overcome um grief. I grabbed my iPad. I went to the notes page. I started typing. Pretty much typed a two-page letter to my close family, my wife, you know, just my family. And basically I was like, I’m so sorry. I’ve not been here. You know, my co my sister Kelly was a pitcher in Albuquerque. Went on. She was number one pitcher in the States High School. Wow. Went to the Goodwill Games in Italy. Went on pitch in college at UTEP. I never saw her play. Oh wow. I saw her when she was young, but I never saw you. Because you were in it. And I was so busy with my career of duty bound doing doing me, you know. So basically, I just wrote just it just just came out, man. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah just, you know, the synopsis of I’m so sorry that I haven’t I mean, I’ve been here physically. I’ve been around. I’ve done things, but you’re always, you know, one foot out the door to to rescue and everything. Super hyper vigilant, too. Everywhere. It’s like Yes. Not. So, I was there and wasn’t there at the same time. And so, that was that was when I knew it’s time. It’s interesting you say that because when I’ve had the chance to sit with first responders and veterans, combat veterans specifically, they tell that same story. Yeah. That they were fully in on this thing and they come in and they retire and they get to this point or they, you know, finish up their service and they come in and they’re like, I just I need to apologize to my family because they see it so clearly. And I have to imagine the birth of your second kid. What a big impact. Canon was wow. Well, number one, I was 47 years old. Mhm. And I’m like, she’s like, I’m pregnant. I’m like I’m like I’m old. Yeah. Wait, why? It’s like I know. No, no, no. I’m old. You know, so I’m gonna try to get emotional. But yeah, in my mind I was like, “Oh my I I don’t want to be a burden to this young man.” Like he’s going to have to wheel me around. He’s like, “Babe, what?” You know, it’s like biggest blessing in the world. Yeah. You know, but that’s when the career got scary for me. It’s almost like finishing up a tour. Yeah. And I and then well, you know, not to to to downplay my daughter, but I was different. You were young. Yeah. I was young and dumb. I mean, 100%. But I was good at what I did. Don’t get me wrong. I wasn’t bad. I wasn’t I was good. I was acquiring skills. I was I mean, that agency, we had people around us. I mean, just amazing shooters. I mean like and I got the pick brains of people Greg Jackson people like they were around us you know we honed a lot of just a lot of lot of that you know so you always saw the tough side of everything and and you pick the brains of those people and you you you know get things and you build yourself into something but you know we didn’t sit down and say how did how’s your mental health today I mean right I wish we did you know that did come a couple times you know and you know we can get But you’re building this. So with my daughter, you know, yeah, we have a great relationship, but the relationship I have with Canon and the time of, you know, again, 47 as opposed to 33, 3, right? That’s a big difference. A lot of stuff done in between there, you know, I learned ground I mean, I was a ground control instructor, uh, you know, um, tas tons of stuff, you know, skills just thrown on me. Um I was a tactical fight officer, tactical fight officer instructor. So I taught how we operate in the helicopter and all the stuff that we did comms and everything. So a lot of skill set but yeah was born. Was it when he was born or when you found out she was pregnant? Uh little both. I mean when I found out I was like oh you know like well I wanted to retire and travel the world. Now it’s going to be different right now. I got to raise this young man. But I was honestly scared like, well, I’m I’m old, babe. I don’t like, you know, when he’s 10, I’m going to be 57. I’m I don’t I don’t want him wheeling me around. I don’t want him Mhm. But, you know, that also say, well, I got to train then. I got to stay in shape. I got to stay doing stuff because I don’t want him to say, “Hey, dad, let’s go play at a park.” And me say, “I can’t. I can’t I can’t do that anymore.” No, I’m going to go do that. You know, to your point too, it’s different when obviously when you mature a little bit and you get to see it, but also like father’s having sons. I know for my two boys, I mean, they look at me like I’m their absolute hero, you know, and I’m sure from the moment he could, he’s been looking at you like, “You just show me the way, Dad.” You know, if he looks at me the way I look at my dad and my dad and my stepdad, I I’ll take it. Yeah. I’ll take it. You know, um, it’s high regard. Yeah. High regard. people of that part of my life that that man they shouldered stuff that I can’t imagine now I’m like ah oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh you know start to see it but but I’m I’m scary you know it’s just this is the scariest thing ever to me being a dad. Yeah and being now a more mature dad it’s even more scary. Yeah. You know, and then I told attorney one day, you know, he was giving me a hard time about something in the courthouse and I said, you know, if you’d seen the things I see and done the things I do, when you watch TV tonight at home on your couch, you put a seatelt on. I mean, like like you would just buckle like, you know what I mean? Like I just seen so much and done so much. I said it’s out there. It’s right outside right now. There’s horror out there, you know, that we want to protect our kids from. And then when you learn about it or you’re a part of it or you’re working to defeat that and you see it at that level, it’s tough. You almost know too much for sanity in that moment. Yes. What shifted for you? You talked about being in some fear when Canon was born and in your last couple years of law enforcement. Um what was scary about that is you wanted to come home more than ever. Yeah. Yeah. Want to come home more than ever. Um want to raise him. Mhm. you know, want to be present. Um, it’s good. This is where it gets emotional. It’s just just want to be a good dad this time. I I wasn’t a bad dad with my daughter. It’s just that I was in a different spot in my life. And now a chance to be better at that. But there’s a message that needs to be passed on from a father to a son that I want to do. And you know, you and I both realizing this now, and I want to make sure I was around to do it. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like I need to be here to deliver this to get him to hand him off. Yeah. To the world. Yep. You know, and that’s big. It’s a big responsibility. Big responsibility for me. So it made me scary because what we were doing, there’s some funny stories to it. We obviously were doing car chases, things like that, but we just got into the world of hoist rescuing, right? Where you’re on the helicopter and you’re hoisted up. And so we’re getting ready to do some kind of a funny story, you know, again, we’re tough guys. I’m, you know, tough guy here, you know, and uh the crew comes in to teach us hoisting and, you know, we’re doing a briefing on them Monday. So, we’re going to spend a week with these guys and they’re like, “All right, we’re going to do this, you know, crawl, walk, run, move slow, and then, you know, by Thursday, we’ll be picking up live loads.” Like some of you guys will be hooked up to the helicopter and we’re going and we start working all that stuff. So we train to operate the hoist where you’re standing on the edge of a helicopter looking down picking somebody up or you’re riding up the hoist, right? So it was training of two ways. And I remember we come in Tuesday, everybody’s feeling good, you know, and they look at me, they say, “You know what? We’re ready for live loads and you’re up.” All right. And I’m like, “I never hung out of a helicopter like that.” The tough guy, right? Just right out. Um, so there was that, you know, and wow, you know, you’re you’re feeling the the hurricane winds of the rotor wash, you’re grabbing this thing, you’re grabbing, you’re hooking up, and then you’re you’re gone. Yeah. You know, and you’re you’re in somebody else’s hands. That’s wild. And you have to be okay with it. Yeah. It’s almost like trusting your climbing partner to like beling the gear. We check our gear. triple check our gear. I go to you to check my gear, go to producer, check, you know, like we were all checking our gear so much cuz the company that we used their former law enforcement and they named themselves after one of their fallen brothers who was seasoned at that who fell to his death. They probably tell you about doesn’t matter how you know what I mean like complacent. I’m not going to say he was complacent but complacency can get you right. So it mattered right? So now I’m doing something scary, scarier. Like I’m when when I got recruited for the job, they sat me down and say, “Hey, we want to take it in a different direction. We’ll make more tactical, more law enforcement.” I said, “You want to, you know, high regard officers. Uh you’re you’re you’re friendly with the tactical team. You’re friendly with we need someone like you because we can embed you into a tactical environment down here or put you in a helicopter here. You’ve seen them both.” I’m like, “Oo, I love that. I love that.” Yeah. So, I went to my family and I said, “Hey, this is what I want to do.” I made sure I had the blessing from my family, you know, because gravity’s undefeated, you know. Sure is. Gravity’s undefeated. You know, you we’re still learning it now in jets and and everywhere. Um, you know, takeoffs are optional, but landings are pretty damn mandatory. You’re gonna land, right? So, there was a scariness to it, but it’s also a challenge. Like, I’m gonna learn an aviation language that I don’t know. Anyway, so just built putting all that together, you know, was another accomplishment and something different. Um, and I’m not good with heights. Like I walk to the edge of something, I get that feeling. You know what I mean? Like, but on the edge of a helicopter, you can sit me there all day. Feel good. You’re coming out the edge, there’s no hole in the middle. No, there’s no hole in edge. And you are just a, you know, we run like a meter away. Mhm. But they’re strong. Don’t get me wrong. You fall out, you’re going to look silly. But I could do that. Yeah. You know, I was like, I can accomplish that, but I can’t stand over an edge like not comfortably. I could do it, but I’m like, you know, um but you know, you got to remember or you inside, you know, that if I go out, that’s it. You know, and I I talked to another friend of mine who was with the Up Creek Police Department. He had retired. He goes, “You can retire, right?” I said, “Yeah, I’m getting there.” He goes, need to you have a son. I was like, God, you’re right. You know what I mean? I was like, yeah, you know, and that starts to happen. But I had a different reason to live. I I’d done my duty. I I had done I did the law enforcement thing where I was out there for other people and doing doing the best I could, but it was time to be there for me. And then, of course, having cannon um and my wife and I got married right before we had can, you know what I mean? So now I have I’m we’re she’s not my girlfriend, you know, she’s my wife now. Now everything really matters and have a a you know, more reason to walk in that door every night, you know, and it weighs on you and it’s, you know, you talk to military guys and things like that. It’s it’s it’s a great thing, but it also hinders you know, someone will say, “Yeah, I can’t be thinking about home right now because I’ve got this mission to take care of this a lot.” You know what’s been that’s what I was going to ask you. It’s like what was harder? What you walk through in law enforcement or what you’re walking through afterwards trying to be the best father that you can be afterwards? Yeah. Right. And most people be like, man, that high-risisk stuff with helicopters and all this stuff and you’re like, man, no. This life thing. Yeah. Yeah. This marriage thing. Yeah. Relationships. It’s almost like you survive all this. I mean, you’re surviving literal bullets, whatever. Mhm. And the way you communicate with your wife at home hurts way more. Way more. Cuz you can’t communicate the way you were in law enforcement, which is very direct, often times rigid. She’ll tell me, “I’m not your law enforcement. You don’t debrief me.” My wife’s done it too, man. I’m not one of your clients. You’re not therapist. You know, so it’s hard, you know. It’s it’s you survive all this to feel the pain here. Mhm. you know, so something that it’s in, you know, work in progress, you know, hopefully in my wife and I. What is, uh, some of the stuff you’ve done to recover from what you walked through in 22 years since you’ve been out? Have you sought any resources or Yeah, I mean um, I have I’ve done some therapeutic sessions. Um, jiu-jitsu is a big one. Obviously, we got Cannon in um, and that’s thanks to a friend of ours, Tyler, is a sent cannon there. So Ken’s there and then I say I I got to get back, you know, tell I I said I need to do something. So that helps me. Um but the biggest thing is I I retired May 1st 22. Okay. And if you remember, we had an event in Texas, UVA day that happened May 24th. Oh yeah. Well, I was an active shooter instructor for our department too. And so I knew what national nationwide what we teach is similar because we need to be on the same page is what we were looking at. We never taught 77 minutes before you go in there and do what you need to do, you know, which is what that took. So, I’m watching that unfold. And that I’m disappointed. I’m hurt. I look at my wife, she looks at me and she goes, “Oh, no, no, no.” I said, “No.” I said, “I’m not I don’t want to be a cop again. I don’t want to do that. I did that already.” I said, “But I need to be more effective. I I have skills. I have stuff that I can still provide. And needless to say, I mean, I retired. I literally retired. And people ask me, why did you retire? I retired to be a husband. I retired to be a dad. I retired to be a brother, son, uncle, all those things. I was those things before, but I also had this duty for I wasn’t those things. And I retired at a time when we were getting raises were coming, things were coming, and I still Nope. Because good great first responders like yourself have to be a first responder first. It’s almost a prerequisite to going out there and staying safe, right? Yeah. Yeah. So, as you climb a ladder of greatness, whoever you may be, you potentially could leave things at the bottom of that ladder. And I didn’t want to do that. Yeah. I didn’t want to do that anymore. And like I I I could have easily I mean it was cush I come 6 minutes away have a sick vehicle uh $12 million helicopter that I get we fly we see things we help man it was so awesome but it was time it was time to be a better husband and things like that. So right like kind of kind of going back to what you said when where’s the pain? Well the pain’s after because it’s almost like too little too late. like, “Here, here I am, everybody.” And they’re like, “We’ve been here without you.” You got a 60 pound mountaineering backpack on that. I’m like, “Yeah, weighing you down.” And then now they just do more in it. Like, what do you mean? I I’m here. Hello. I’m back. Right. Like, and Yeah. Like, wow. You know, and of course that wasn’t literally, but it’s how you feel. Yeah. You know, it’s how you feel. It’s how you felt. Um, but there was also some immense joy, too, right? like and I I think I’ve mentioned to you this to you before is getting Canon and Jits. He’s four years old. I’m sitting on the sideline sitting with you or Kathy, you know, the friends that we have, mutual friends that man, this this place has been Prime has been great. Yeah, I know you’ve plugged Prime. I’m plugging Prime. It’s been so great. Um but watch Canon for that hour blows away the 22 years. And I’ve done some things, Chris. I’ve seen some things, done some things. I’ve been effective. I’ve been great at what I’ve done. But being there for that hour trumped that because I couldn’t do that in the past. I literally had two phones. If I were to take Canon to jiu-jitsu or an event, Alicia would come in her car, I come in my car and probably have to walk out halfway through. So just to be there, to be present, Yeah. was the joy, right? That was the joy. And at the end of the day, Ken don’t care. I’m a state police officer. He’s He’s been in the helicopter. He’s He’s helped me tug. He’s seen all that stuff. But he don’t care. He just cares about his ice cream and cares about dad. Yeah. Hey, Dad. Can we get ice cream? You know what I mean? Or hey, can we go to And it takes a while to come back to that. You know what I mean? Like to come back to the hardest thing for anybody is the hardest thing for anybody, right? We all have different experiences and I don’t share all the stuff that you know he doesn’t know the dangers I’ve been in. My wife doesn’t know half the dangers that I’ve been in and stuff and stuff but their dangers are different like you know what I mean? I’d come home and have to deal with something potential argument. It was like I’m like okay but I just Yeah. Right. So hard to shut that. I had to be reminded thanks to my therapist that that that was an important thing for them and it mattered to them. So, you need to make it matter to you regardless of you’ve just got into a physical fight with a murderer and had to subdue him. Now, it’s dinner time. Didn’t take, you know, didn’t take the tra didn’t put the toilet. It’s like, dang. Yeah. But that I had to be reminded that that mattered to that person. Mhm. Do you know what I mean? So again, it’s all stuff in the backpack, you know, in in the armor and this and that. So anyways, going back to what we you mentioned, the evol thing, I ended up throwing out my resume and and getting an interview with the Academy School District 20 here to be an armed armed security officer. So, and that’s that’s my retirement gig, and I love it. I I’m at a middle school and I didn’t know at the time that I would love it the way I love it because being there it’s it’s an amazing landing spot coming off of where I come from. I get to maintain the exact same schedule for my son. So I get to be home and be a dad. Um and then I also get to interact with in a sense this this innocent crowd that doesn’t know who I was, what I did. Mhm. They’re just being them going through their life. Mhm. You know, so it’s like, oh, oh. Oh. So, I’m I’m finding my feet again. Yeah. You said before the show that you you love working with the kids. Yeah. Yeah. I love being around them. That’s a tough age, right? Yeah. And I think it’s a perfect age for me. I I think elementary school would have been uh wouldn’t have been bad. Yeah. I met a middle school group. I think high school No, too much. I think high school would have been like I’m a cop again. I don’t want to deal with criminals. like junior high is a real serious inflection point. It’s it’s a it’s a you know it’s they’re they’re learning how to walk talk. They’re they’re figuring out who they might be and I’ve made some great met some great little young kids, you know, and some that I I’ve talked to for three years and watched them grow and but I I I really believe this that it’s helped me more than I’ve helped it. My skill set in that building is greater than the building, right? like what I can do hopefully and never have to it it’s you know it’s it’s lopsided like we get something I’m equipped to deal with it hopefully knock on wood um but what they give to me unknowingly from the educators to the students is is tremendous wife’s like you doing that you can go do this and make so much more and do this and make so much more you can teach this you can teach that I said yeah but this is for me it’s filling you up and yes it’s fing me up. Yeah, that’s how I feel about my work. I’ll sit down with folks that are 5 days sober, just coming off the worst day of their life, and I’ll walk away, they’ll say, “Thank you.” And I’m like, “No, thank you.” Yeah. This has impacted me far greater than anything I could have ever said or done. Yeah. It’s like, you know, even some of our conversations we’ve had and some conversations with other um fathers and parents at jiu-jitsu, it’s just regardless of who I was and what I did, right now, we’re all in the fight to be parents. Yeah. And I say that because we that’s how we’ve all met and that’s how we’ve become. But we’re all we all have our our backpacks. Mhm. For different reasons, but we’re all right now and and again, another plug to Prime because that’s how a lot of us met through Prime. We’re bettering our kids. Y, you know, and a lot of us are watching our kids and now we’re out there with our kids, you know, and for there’s several reasons for that, you know. For me, it’s like, yeah, you know what? I I how how best to Yep. be a be a partner, be out there and feel it, too, you know, and go through it. But that environment, I don’t I don’t know if I would have had it in Albuquerque so much. Um, but it it’s helped me get to where I’m at. It’s helped us get to where we’re at. But I love what you talk about there because it’s we talk about it a lot on the show with folks in recovery. It’s just about like formulating community and we get to all go in there with our backpacks and we get to take half of it out and share it with someone else and split it 50/50. Yep. And it feels so much better to do that. I guess where I want to circle back to or bring up to wrap this thing up is what would you say to first responders, potentially veterans, folks in the community right now that have that phone in their hand and have been impacted by the trauma that you walk through through substance use, exacerbated mental health issues, and it’s created a tremendous amount of quality of life issues. What would you say to that first responder who’s got the phone in his hand today that’s uh potentially dying one day at a time? What would you say to them in regards to courage and making that call? I would say that the courage, the courage is acknowledging that you need assistance. Yeah. Or that you may need assistance. Right. Raising your hand. Say, “Hey, uh, excuse my language. I’m a little [  ] up.” Yeah. You know, that’s why I’m here today, right? I mean, I’m a 200lb man. I can fight. I could shoot. I can do a lot of things. But guess what? I’m a little [  ] up. Yeah. And it’s not that law enforcement [ __ ] no it’s it’s life and stuff and you know but the courage and the strength and the true power is to say yeah I need some help. Yeah. I want to be helped cuz I want to be better than I was the day before. So my words to to my brother-in-law one he’s a firefighter here in town. I’m like hey don’t don’t be afraid to ask for help. Don’t be afraid to talk about what you seen. I said, “And and I’m here for you because what you’ve seen and done, you may not be able to go home and talk to your wife, my sister, right? But you can come talk to me.” Yeah. Cuz I understand it cuz I’ve seen it, too. Yeah. I said, “And don’t keep it to yourself.
You know, it’s going in the backpack. It’s going in the backpack.” You know, we’ll tell stories. We’ll laugh at some of the stories. As many funny stories we have, we have some bad ones. you know, as many great things that we’ve done. We’ve seen some bad stuff, very bad stuff, you know, t