Episode 129
Focusing on Quality and Care First with Cynthia Baker

Watch Now

https://youtu.be/45etBky2Ebk

Listen Now

Description

In this episode, Chris Burns sits with Cynthia Baker, Chief Clinical Officer of The Raleigh House, in an open discussion surrounding the treatment industry. With professional insight and personal testimonies, this conversation spans from focusing on individualized approaches to care and the clear benefits of looking into the role that nutrition plays not only during a treatment stay but also in everyday life. A huge thank you to the Raleigh House and Cynthia for being disruptors in this industry and for sharing insights and information on how we can continue the best experience for clients as we walk them through their recovery.

Talking Points

1. 
   
2. Meet Cynthia Baker (1:05)
   
3. The Raleigh Houses approach to care (2:30)
   
4. Disrupting the industry (4:35)
   
5. Individualized approach to care (6:50)
   
6. Center for Integrated Behavioral Health (11:33)
   
7. Addiction and mental health conditions (14:33)
   
8. Nutrition in recovery (15:15)
   
9. Cynthia’s “why” (22:30)
   
10. Closing thoughts (25:16)
    

Quotes

“Whether they are coming in for substance use or not, we know that the evidence used to say that mental health, addiction, and somewhere in the middle is co-occurring. The evidence says that’s out the door now. That it is basically one whole grouping”

-Cynthia Baker, The Raleigh House 

Episode Transcripts

Episode -129- Transcripts

[Music] hey everybody and welcome to another amazing and exciting episode of Finding Peaks Yours Truly president founder chief executive officer Chris burn so grateful to be here today in this 24 hours with Cynthia Baker the chief clinical officer of Raleigh House of Hope so grateful to have you hi it’s good to see you and thank you for having me absolutely it was um I got to meet you it was probably a few months ago yes right we’re sitting down at a dinner that I got invited to by the Raleigh House of Hope and it was entrepreneurs and business owners and Executives coming together to talk about really really tough issues and things that are going on and how we’re growing together and um I’m just reminded of kind of this subtle connection that we had you know I I’d sometimes get in rooms and I talk a lot and I look around and you’re one of the individuals that I really felt connected with throughout that process I think kind of our mission and our vision both personally and professionally are really closely uh in alignment and I’m so grateful to have you on the show today and if those of you who don’t know Cynthia she is a licensed clinical social worker as well as carries a Doctorate in Education yeah awesome awesome so grateful to have you on the show and one of the big things that I wanted to kind of chat about a little bit is like you have a wildly formidable resume i’ I looked at your LinkedIn I looked at what you ran VP of this doing this you just told me you had a digital Mark digital company early on in your career and what is it about the Raleigh house that kind of Drew your attention um in that direction what keeps you motivated there that’s a great question and I would say Chris I felt the same about just really connecting during this dinner and just talking about sole Proprietors and Founders and having the people at that table that was an amazing dinner um and so you know Chris I think I think in my heart has always been around the idea of people who Who start something and they have a vision and a passion for it and so I think it’s really um really was a big deal for me to kind of choose the Raleigh house the Raleigh house chose me um but you know it’s it’s something that um I can only I can’t imagine myself doing anything else so that’s really really cool and something I really appreciated about the Raleigh house over all of these years and you all have been in business I want to say two or three years longer than us so kind of came came into the market at a very very similar time I’ve always loved how Raleigh house puts clients and individuals first and then wraps a treatment program around that how do you guys do that it seems like something that’s been missed so often in our industry but how do you see them putting a business model forward like that being able to carry it out in a really sustainable way yeah I think it was really around the visioning you know of our CEO founder you know Eric laap and so but it’s you know it’s it’s the idea of the pathways of you know substance use Mental Health and Trauma and so it’s it’s kind of developed right it’s it’s it’s evolved over the years and so I think it’s about you know having a location where you know Raleigh house started on Raleigh Street as a sober living you know so so it’s evolved and grown over the years but I think it’s really been related to the vision of how do we successfully help people how do we you know make them um how do we help them with their healing and rewriting their story right and so I think that’s something the Raleigh house seems um has been aept with long before I ever arried and you know it’s more about now taking what the core of the Raleigh house is and then taking that and projecting that forward and growing that access right for more people um to be able to have those Services that’s really really cool and I don’t know if you know this but I had a one of my best friends about a year ago um was struggling with some mental health stuff and chose to call the Raleigh house home for 30 days and he went in and and he P his family paid cash for those services and he had been to 35 treatment programs prior to that he’s been in South Florida he’s been in northern Arizona Southern California he’s Texas you name it and when he got out of the Raleigh house he said to me that’s the best treatment program I’ve ever been through boy they will not let you get away with not working on your trauma but that is the most intentional treatment program I’ve ever been a part of so it brings me to one of our core values which is to disrupt the industry through quality of care how do you see Raleigh house in your long-standing career really aiming to disrupt the industry one quality resource at a time one individual at a time how do you see that evolving from your seat you know it might be a bit like what you’re doing with Peaks right because it’s that idea of being Peaks we are the Raleigh house we are the r house and so we’re disrupting by being who we are so it’s not only the evidencebased cognitive behavioral therapy acceptance that a DBT all the evidence-based work and then let’s just throw in these other expressive therapies let’s put in the ecoin you know the animal assistance Psychotherapy let’s use more variety around what’s going to really help that person right grow and learn that it’s not one size fits-all that it’s the true person centered individualized plans for these clients and so I think that that’s something that has really impressed me about Raleigh house and really aligns with my career yeah really I love that too because I remember in my um personally going through my mental health journey in the beginning and and and people I would come into treatment and they would ask questions like how’s that working out for you and I would just be like not good like I feel so bad in the way in which we used to communicate just 15 short years ago is people come in to care put a box over their head head we say these certain things and these certain terms and we send them on this path to community integration and a one-size fits-all path and for so many years I remember sitting there and being like I guess if this is the way I have to do it but just feeling so unsafe and so scared I love what the Raleigh house does because it speaks to people and humans coming into a process individually yeah and for sure Peaks has really built a name as well over the years is like from an from V to EOB from ver verification of benefit to explanation of benefit can we suit up and show up and be curious can we listen first and solve later and I think that’s something that’s been missed but we’ve been really grateful to connect with the Raleigh house who’s our number one referral in this state for out of network cash pay folks how have you guys been able to continue with that individualized approach yeah I think it’s just going to be it’s a part of our mission and I think that you know the universe is going to take care of this right ultimately however we figure out you know we’re here and we’re we’re growing and so we know that there whatever magic ingredient it is it’s truly about it’s about being true to yourself and being true to the vision right of of what the Raleigh house is because if it was something else that was a canned approach right or or something else it might be one of the other right private organizations that is not surviving or thriving you know like like ours um you you know I think one of the things I would say is that I would like to see more disruption in the industry right yeah you know you were talking about disruption and I think about you know pairing that with Innovation right pairing that with the idea of um you know uh individualized care right and being able to um take a look at all these different like we still have to work within systems we still get paid we still survive you know we we Thrive we have employees who we you know we pay we have great leaders and mid leaders and clinical directors and all these other directors that we you know that support our mission right but it is going to be about how going forward you know Statewide nationally how as CEO run organizations and private organizations how do we disrupt an industry that is kind of you know right it’s on its way to the black and white one way no way and we’re talking about people on the streets Y and we’re talking about people leaving care and they’re not getting what they need and it’s constant cycle right in our country around Health Care Mental Illness the stigma of substance use and mental illness um I I still think we have ai at all levels um to support our organizations I think as Leaders we have a responsibility yeah I really love I’ve actually I’ve s I’ve said disrupt the industry probably a thousand times in the last couple years um but I’ve never heard anybody say we need to pair that with Innovation because it’s not and I think I’ve gotten into some hot water with this years ago when we first kind of got that core value was like I just want to be disruptful to be disruptful because this is BS and it’s not going well right you know and so I’m I’m kind of spinning my wheels like and I’m not going anywhere so I love what you said it’s this very intentional approach to disrupting I’m not going to do it just to Flap my wings it’s actually we’re going to support it with Innovation client care and outcomes that’s the way to do it and I love what you’re saying let’s let’s do it in a professional way but let’s continue to raise the flag to say hey this isn’t going well and I think we have a way into treating people in our programs and in our communities where they actually feel seen valued and heard which is really nice and I can remember when I first felt that and it was in a treatment program and it was surrounded by great professionals and I was like why are these people being so nice to me and it wasn’t because I was paying I was on scholarship so be clear I feel like our clients say that sometimes too it’s like kindness is supposed to be a part of this right and so people come in and they’re like oh my gosh why are you being so nice to me and it tells me they have a story and a story of which needs to be treated with compassion empathy and presence so I just I love what the Raleigh house is doing because when I look at the state of Colorado specific and it used to kind of be a Peaks and Raleigh house kind of doing this thing but I think you’re the the only ones if I’m not mistaken one of the only ones who’s still providing not just the level of care but the model and an out of network side of things and still thriving so to your point when the heart is true the universal conspire to support you rich role not me I I think that’s what’s happening at the Raleigh house I think your clients are some of your greatest marketers um and I get to hear the Raleigh house Praises not even so much by your professionals by the people that have walked through the program it’s been really really cool and to hear a friend of mine that I got subed with 15 years ago say something like that and I know the programs he’s been to it means a lot and so there’s actually two places in the state of Colorado where I would refer a family member Peaks can’t do that there’s a conflict so that’s one off the list Raleigh house is the second I mean that with a whole heart thank you absolutely because I love the way that you guys move into Innovation and speaking of innovation you guys just open a new facility yes tell me a little bit about that Denver TCH Center beautiful area absolutely um it’s downstairs from our outpatient which is you know our PHP IOP um on Quebec Street and that it’s called the center for integrated Behavioral Health I can only tell you all over the last four to six months how many times we’ve changed the name how we reworked the name um and that’s the cool part about visioning when you get to start something right so it’s the name it’s it’s what’s the Acuity level who are we going to serve um you know it’s it’s been an ongoing kind of Thrill Ride for me I mean to be able to come into this it was so attractive to me to be able to you know to to be a part of that and to implement and plan and strategize around a whole new facility so it’s kind of like when you get into you know when you’re getting in Boots on the ground and you’re in the dayto day and you’re trying to work on processes and improvements you know um there can be a little frustration right there can be a little bit of of heightened uh there’s a lot of investment in this right and and both financially and professionally by lots and lots of people this wasn’t you know one person who did all this but you know I think um there’s more to come on this and and we’re continuing to look and evolve with the services that we want to deliver again the person centered care components um we are featuring mental health but we also have the license for detox okay um and substance use as well so we’ve had a blend so far okay um we’ve had eight clients since our opening three weeks so do detox in that facility as well yes oh wow cool and we’ve been able to um retain U every client except one client that really you know kind of made a decision it wasn’t time for treatment okay um and so these things happen but it’s that idea that we were able to Anchor a community together very quickly that tells you something about what the Raleigh house has done before that we could pay you know take forward while also innovating was something that was a little different right in a little just a whole different environment than a ranch right I love that the city you know and you know it’s lots of windows but it’s a and it’s just a it’s a beautiful place and we look forward to you coming to see can’t wait to visit um later on this month and that is really Innovative and you’re speaking to something that Peaks has moved into um with our new facility it’s like this idea that we treat suffering together and oftentimes people come in they’ll be like where’s your substance use people where’s your mental health people and it’s like we have found over the last since we’ve opened the facility about a year and a half enough like people anchor into the process just the same we we all understand that Chris at least I understand about my history is like Chris Burns right leg was tapping I couldn’t sit still when I was in fifth grade long before I ever touched a substance and so right uh here goes a mental health disorder and substance use disorder is a mental health disorder and so we’ve brought them together and we’ve had pretty phenomenal results and so I love to hear that in your new facility like you’re taking this Innovative measure to say hey like we’re going to move into this and your outcomes are speaking to it and this community you know whether they’re coming in for substance use or not we know that you know the evidence Ed to say right mental health addiction and then somewhere in the middle is a co-occurring the evidence says that’s out the door now that literally right it’s basically one whole you know grouping of people that if they’re using substances but their mental health is primary right they’re using some sort of a substance to medicate or whatever that looks like and so it was really interesting watching this small community that was so Blended like that and really working together and I could see them even during clinical programming that they were they were really you know really grabbing on to the evidencebased things but then the other piece Chris is the pro recovery nutrition and the movement work I have a yoga person you know recreational therapist who’s doing yoga trauma informed kind of you know all these different pieces around movement and we knew because we didn’t have the outdoor space of the ranch that we needed that right you know we needed we needed to have kind of the movement work and have somebody really working with them after clinical that has been so amazing and then the other piece was the pro recovery nutrition so when you look at nutrition you know the high protein low sugar low Dairy you know gluten-free you’re feeding the brain you know you’re you’re getting healthier you’re coming in kind of yellow or gray right I’m watching the color you know in these clients at the ranch especially and you know at the center as we continue to evolve so you know at Watkins rants we have a chef there and so all the you know all the foods are freshly you know uh made we have a lot of catering in different pieces at the center because of the city location but we’re really having similar results um you know um Eric laap is is a professional and and has a background and you know working in um holistic nutrition and the amino acids and all the components so we’re kind of stepping in back into some of this in addition to food and using using some of those efforts I have a a nutritionist on board who’s an independent contractor she has groups every week with residential and out patient clients um and also we’ll do individual assessments and you know that real difference between a holistic nutritionist is they really get that whole high protein you know and they get all the under the understand all those components so um and they they adapt to that so that’s been amazing as well and so we’re really trying to specialize and have some specialty areas excuse me that makes me makes us different has it really does and you’re touching on something that’s very near and dear to my heart I remember three years ago I went into um one of our leadership meetings and it was just when we started cooking for clients you know we were outpatient levels of care and then we got a chef and a culinary team and I just I guess I had learned how beneficial it was for my recovery and I went into a leadership meeting about 12 laders and these are doctors and psychiatrists far more knowledgeable than me about everything and I just said what informs the food that we feed our clients yeah because it looks good looks real good but I just have in it was almost like exorcism people’s heads started spinning they’re hiding their drinks or throwing their food on the ground because it’s this real primal thing that people don’t want to talk about a lot and they don’t want to move into and especially when people are suffering from shame and the microcosm of addiction or mental Health whatever it might be the last thing we want to do is but this is a supportive tool yeah I’m a big believer that like we can leave a lot of this on the table and get some sunlight and some good nutrition and walk together and we will accomplish things we never thought were possible yeah so I love that you guys are doing that and frankly one of the greatest presentations on any website that I’ve ever seen is the culinary on your site yes fresh fruit and vegetables and Gardens and they grow it on site and clients were goes back years that’s all things that you know that that I think Eric really took the lead on those things and I think that was just so incredibly special when you think about what did we do different or what are we doing different people in general don’t want to leave treatments so much when they start not feeling the Cravings because you know in addition to the Psychiatry and and Matt and that we all have to have for support for some of these folks you know the natural pieces they can take forward with them through the Continuum outside our services let’s hope that they can take some of that forward and and not go back to the McDonald’s burger right and and we know there’s a cost occurred incurred with these things but at least they can learn more about it so the education compound I think is really important too yeah the education is huge because I wish somebody would you know may have come to me because I was thinking in my early recovery I’m like waking up at 6:00 am. and going for a walk that seems hard yeah but I think what’s really hard is a my ability to zoom out and see things as they actually are and what be might be more more difficult for me is you know living a life 30 years of sobriety and at 65 being cut open because I wasn’t informed to these opportunities from a nutritional perspective to inform not just quality of life physical health mental health spiritual health overall well-being so you just feel better when you do it even though it is and was for me a very very tough topic to talk about you know that’s interesting you know my um my dad um you know he’s passed away now but the idea is that you know he was he was an alcoholic and I had more alcoholic family and mental a lot of mental illness in the family and you know you were talking about that Discovery you know of why am I doing this and you and I kind of prepped and we talked about that and I was just thinking about as you were talking about how healthy he thought he was because he worked out every day but he had this awful cholesterol he had empyema he had heart problems and he eventually passed away of a heart attack and guess what none of those things had to happen had he really been healthy right you know nutritionally healthy but the way people grow up the way you know the new generation the old generation as well and what what they put in their bodies so I’m not an expert in this area but I’m absolutely learning you know from the Raleigh house you know is is and I’m watching these clients Thrive and get healthier you make such a good point though because we grew up kind of lower socioeconomic situation and I remember we had to buy the when we got cereal it was the big bags yeah not the boxes the boxes were more expensive and so instead of Frosted Flakes you get Joey’s flakes or whatever it might be right and I remember thinking as a kid I want the freaking Frosted Flakes so I get sober 2008 turns out when you don’t spend money on that stuff you have a couple resources even when you work and I remember going to the grocery store the first time Frost flakes Salsbury steak all the stuff I never had that all my friends who had resources did and then it turns out that stuff’s good for you right so bad for you and and the milk like oh holy crap she couldn’t do anything worse in the morning to eat a b of cereal I know like like your total gut health is blown out the door by it you know to learn that all these Foods I couldn’t afford growing up aren’t good for you right yeah I grew up I grew up um quite poor too and I I just remember the oatmeal every morning get know yeah so yeah I’m right there with you well it’s been just extraordinary having you on the show I I wanted to as I do with most of my guests just kind of end with one one last question and I think I know the answer I’m very much in alignment with it but for the viewers like you know why do you do this this is this is tough work it’s very rewarding work if you’re passionate about it but what is your why what’s the foundation of that where this passionate energy comes from yeah I wish I had your energy by the way I tend to be a little more [Laughter] manic well it’s it’s a pleasant oh awesome thank you thank you Chris you’re amazing um so you know my why goes back a ways right you know sometimes when we’re younger we don’t know who we are we make decisions we’re kind of floating through I raised children I raised daughters you know was married we had a small business went back to graduate school thinking I would have this next career and I’m a social worker and I’m gonna you know develop programs and you know and all these things but then there’s you know I I always talk about being it feels like I was from privilege at that point because I really didn’t see all the suffering for a while until I really looked inside myself and then I looked at my own family with the history of mental illness and substance use and then it was like I realized what a generational and you know harmful deadly stigma that has been on substance use and mental health and addiction right both that you know has harmed people right it’s cost them their lives and so it’s it’s so incredibly serious so once you know it’s like once you look at the big picture and then you look at the per you know the individual you’re realizing how wrong things are and how much there is to fix and so I think it’s been really good for me to realize when you think about these things that it’s not that human being it’s really a system right it’s really all the things that makes that human being worse and doesn’t help them yeah and then also just people feeling shame and blame and I I think that’s just some of the ugliest feelings that people shouldn’t have to feel um so I feel really passionate about the idea of people having access to services and so that can be part of an organization be a leader in an organization where I can increase that access because I’ve been other roles that I could not and then I spent 10 years in aging where I could and we served you know 1500 nursing homes and we you know we did some really awesome work and so everywhere I go I want to take that energy and but I also want to you know instill the kindness and the culture that you’re everyone’s why right we’re all on the same page and we’re here to ultimately help that client right and we’re here for the clients um so I just um you I really like developing people training and development of people to help them in these roles that are so difficult for them so I would say my why really stems from family you know and less my personal experience but more around learning about myself that’s a beautiful and well articulated why I I remember growing up thinking I knew about substance use because it was in my family and I grew up you know I was in family program at S 2 s at 7 years old 9 years old 11 years you know all these ages and I remember they would say things about my mother like you know she’s an addict so that equals a plus b equals c and you’re like oh that sucks so my mom’s an addict my whole life I grew up being like you’re doing this thing to me yeah and you’re not showing up I was hanging out with my mom six months ago and for the first time in my life life I realized she struggled with depression and she used substances to make sense of that hole that she was in and in that moment after 38 years on this planet I saw my mom clearly wow and so I appreciate your why it’s very near and dear to my heart our mission and our vision who we aim to help and walk with one day at a time there’s a story behind every individual and I’m grateful the day that peak’s recovery and Raleigh House of Hope is in alignment seeing those individuals clearly thank you Chris thank you so much Cynthia it’s been a pleasure until next time my beautiful people peace [Music]