Episode 126
Bridging the Gap: Recovery & Incarceration to Community

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Description

In this episode, Chris Burns brings Dan Hugill, Activities Director at PRC, to shed some light on the experience of returning from a treatment stay or incarceration back into daily life. Dan, through The Bridge, offers amazing community-building opportunities for everyone who is looking. From looking deeper into mental health, the impacts that fatherhood can have on life, and our human relationship with time, Chris and Dan engage in a captivating and high-energy conversation on topics often kept quiet.

Talking Points

1. 
   
2. Meet Dan (0:23)
   
3. The Bridge Colorado Springs (1:05)
   
4. Creating a bridge for the incarcerated population(3:25)
   
5. Future of The Bridge (7:44)
   
6. Shifting into mental health focus (10:30)
   
7. Baby steps every day (14:05)
   
8. Impacts of fatherhood on professional approach (19:15)
   
9. Our relationship with time (20:42)
   
10. Final thoughts (22:10)
    

Quotes

“If you help enough people get what they need, you, in return, will get what you need. If we can just copy and paste that, but make it on a case-to-case basis and just have people helping people helping people”

– Dan Hugill, Activities Director 

Episode Transcripts

Episode -126- Transcripts

[Music] [Applause] [Music] hey everybody and welcome to another exciting episode of Finding Peaks your host Chris Burns president founder CEO so ecstatic today to be joined by an amazing professional but an even better human Dan Hill how are you sir I’m good Chris how you doing today brother doing really well great to see you Dan as our activities director uh but we’re kind of shift gears a little bit today and I wanted to bring Dan on to talk about well the Shir he’s repping right now the bridge doing a lot of amazing work for folks in the community people transitioning in and out of the Department of Corrections and this is a cause that’s very near and dear to your heart and I know we’ve had you on the show before and we’ve touched on this but this is kind of your your personal mission your personal vision and um it’s your dream to kind of walk with people in a similar way to people walked with you um out of the Department of Corrections and into thriv in community so what inspired this uh this opportunity for the bridge in Colorado Springs cool thank you Crystal what inspired the bridge in Colorado Springs is there’s I love that question because um what we had seen these you know have been going in and out of the prisons for several years working like when we would go in there like volunteering for the rf2 the CrossFit program they have in there we saw this beautiful community that they had in there like the camaraderie and it’s just like Sparta in there and then we would find when people were getting out there’s like certain gyms it’s a different vibe out here so one of the things that that really inspired us is like we want to recreate that Community out here because even if they’re like a member of a program or a mentorship program in there it’s like like like how how the my co-founder Matt Clovis says he’s like it’s like going from a hot shower into an ice bath so we’re trying to warm the water up a little bit for him when they get out so like in in that like so we’ll go and speak to them while they’re in there before they get out working with case management to help him have a plan to transition out and have a community ready for him and we do a lot of Fitness stuff we do like CrossFit partner with Crossfit decimate we do boxing over at Old School uh we’re doing uh weightlifting over at grid Athletics we’re doing things they were doing in there were the community with like-minded people out here and people that have shared those experiences helping people become the leaders that they were meant to be like we’ll get a leader from there we’ll help develop them so that we could just have leaders helping leaders helping leaders mentoring them what did I do when I got out of prison it might look a little bit different but we have that shared experience so I help you get out of prison you help the next person get out of prison let’s all go work out together let’s go eat together that was the big thing is just bringing the community MH that’s really really cool man and I’ve actually never heard it defined from hot water to an ice bath you know I’ve been doing Behavioral Health substance use mental health treatment for nearly 16 years now we’ve always talked about the transition and how difficult it can be just after 45 days right and these people aren’t in lockdown right they’re in a community they’re in a holistic environment and we talk about often times how difficult maybe I would even describe that transition as hot water to an ice bath we’re talking about individuals that potentially have been disconnected from the social milu and environment for years yes and creating a bridge right I I love that man creating a bridge for these individuals so they don’t have to experience that shock that can really exacerbate symptomology of trauma mental health pain and shame whatever it might be so I love that cause something that isn’t on the list today that I want to talk to you a little bit about these are folks that are incarcerated that are on really really good behavior right they’re showing up for themselves they’re showing up for others they’re creating Community by the time you see them they they’ve kind of progressed through that system quite a bit right absolutely absolutely we’ll work with them but we’ll even go and we’ll work with the stgs violent offenders people that are gang members and just let them know like when you get out here it doesn’t have to be how it was I’m not asking anybody to put your flag down but I’m just saying do you want to choose life or do you want to go back through the revolving door right yeah man I really really love that and there’s no better people to do this it’s similar to like veterans helping veterans yes there really is this succinct connection and authentic trust that is just there for the folks who have walked in their shoes yes I love that man and and Matt man your your business partner does a great job kind of fortifying that mission I’ve L the opportunity connecting with him as well he’s a great human man yes maybe you could share for the viewers I always like personal stories little personal touches do you have any stories you can share with the viewers I know you have a bunch where you’ve met somebody in the Department of Corrections hopeless M and they’re out in the community today serving others yes in a really really cool way you chat about that a little bit absolutely Ely so gosh I want to shout out I don’t I know he wouldn’t mind but specifically I think I think of my buddy Trevor Jones he he had a pretty significant he had a prison sentence he was in there he was a leader and then he got out gosh I think want to say two years ago if he sees this he’ll he’ll he’ll he’ll let me you know he’ll put it in the comments but but he got he he was uh been around for the Redemption Road Fitness Foundation I think like pretty close to day one like close to maybe even one of the founding members but he was a big part of it he was actually my first experience going in and getting to coach a CrossFit in the Department of Corrections in 2019 down at Fremont with him and we both just got our CrossFit level two certifications and I went in he was like what’s up bro get in here and Coach show them how they do it on the streets and I was like dude it’s in here it’s the coaching this is just like they do it on the streets and there’s all these different gang members working out together and I love that but yeah which is atypical yeah that doesn’t happen in prison ever ever but now since he’s got out he’s up in Denver he he’s leader in the community up there he’s doing peer work he’s helping people getting out he’s working he’s successful he hit the ground running and he’s a prime example of what people like us can do like the formly incarcerated population like like it’s amazing MH it’s beautiful because what what what you’re speaking to is something that I think we’ve spoken to for a long time but without very much movement which is these people need recovery yes right these people need recovery they don’t necessarily need to be locked in a box but that’s a different topic for for a different day so I love that and you’re allowing these individuals right whose agency is quite literally been taken Humanity quite literally been taken you’re introducing them to this opportunity in community for people to see value and hear them yes the new Gabor mate book I haven’t finished it yet so I can’t recommend it one way or another yeah but he talks about two things that create mental unwellness and it is uncertainty and it’s feeling all alone yes there is not one thing that the Department of Corrections does better than create uncertainty and make people feel all alone and so your mission and your vision and your purpose with the bridge is dynamic and I love love where this how this thing is getting started but my question is is if it were to go all the way because we’re celebrating our 10 year anniversary of Peaks recovery um in September yes and if you would have asked me even five years ago where peak’s recovery would have been I would have sold myself short yeah and I would have sold the community short so what do you think if you were in the spot you wanted to be what would the bridge be doing for people in the community oh so I love that question Chris again thank you thank you so one of the things that we do is we have a it’s a like I said it’s peer-led and it’s a restorative justice approach so doing things in the community is a part of that is a it’s one of the the three big points of the restorative along with like the offenders and the victims and the community all coming together for healing so ultimately what I see is I just I see huge events I see this spreading across Colorado maybe the nation maybe the world in reducing recidivism I know that gets brought up a lot in these kind of conversations but in Colorado if we can stop a 100 people from going back that’s 1% Colorado’s 39th out of 50 states with recidivism every other person’s going back to prison the way it looks so the way that I could see that is we’d have gyms we’d have things to go people to do places and people for people to lead and develop more leaders just making an impact taking rights back being able to show up and be there for your families families reigniting on a huge level yeah that’s that’s just off the top one of the things that I think about is just what we can do to serve others because I think Zig Ziggler said if you help enough people get what they need you internal get what you need and if we can just copy and paste that but make it on a case- toase basis and just people helping people helping people yep I love that man and you’re providing an opportunity for individuals that maybe don’t understand the system don’t understand individuals within the system and so often times you know shoot when I don’t understand something certainly in the past I begin to judge it maybe begin to judge it harshly have a negative tone about it or whatever it might be I just I’m so grateful to have you on the show and to continue to reintroduce and reorient the community with Dan hook Hill and what you’re doing and what people with big hearts that just got in a tough environment for a season can do in this world yes it’s a beautiful thing man and the recidivism rate you know that’s another conversation as well but it’s clear to me why that continues to happen there’s not enough bridges yeah for sure there’s not enough Bridges you know and at the same time I want to I want to say that there there’s probably people incarcerated that don’t want to do what you’re doing absolutely and that’s okay yeah you know but there’s a vast majority of people that maybe otherwise people wouldn’t know that actually really want recovery yeah they really want hope they really want freedom but they’re Bound by some of these mental health issues and this trauma and being isolated and locked away in a cage for a long time can do a number on humans in general yes so I wanted to talk a little bit about something that has been a huge transition for you a huge transition for Peaks uh probably a huge transition for the Department of Corrections what has it been like um you know obviously you’re our activities director here you’re the founder at the the bridge what has it been like to kind of shift the language into more of this kind of mental health view of things is to say that you know we believe that everything stems from mental health and that substance use disorder is a mental health disorder yes and so how has it been how has that shift been for you and what have you been able to see in community Through just kind of reorienting people with just kind of different verbage and a kind of a different tone yeah that’s great I I love that because mental health is the stem of it I believe that the addiction is just a symptom and and it can show up in other ways than substance use for all kinds of people and I I love seeing that it’s going toward more towards mental health now I love that and the way that that shows up is like like I I go in one of the meetings that I run over here at the sanctuary we’ve started to shift the language there to mental health and been getting more bu and and people are like oh they feeling like they belong a little bit more and I love seeing that because it’s almost like there was like an Us and Them between mental health and substance use there’s not there’s not and there shouldn’t be because our experience is would you boil it down to the mental health like that’s why yeah that’s why that’s what we need to talk about that’s what we need to be addressed and like you said like being incarcerated it can make you feel uncertainty and it can make you feel lonely and if you’re in there and you’re lonely like joining a gang might sound real good because you want some sort of community they told me they love me I mean yeah for sure for sure and if you’re accepted by that you know then you’re accepted by something then you get become a part part of that culture and all kinds of other stuff can can stem from that but then gosh the loneliness the loneliness feeling like nobody’s there like I remember being when I was incarcerated I remember like when I’d get mail when they’d call my name for mail even if it was just something like that like some kind of paperwork just a throw away I just I loved it so much open it up open it up yeah if it was something good like a picture you go around and you show everybody like all your friends you’re like look I got a picture of my dog and it’s just it’s great and it just it felt so good it it feels so good to have people that are there for you that’s one of the that we’re trying to do with the bridge is like Hey we’re here for me for you even if you like you come out you get out you get involved with us and you go back we’ll walk you through the whole way we’ll be there I’ll come and visit you in prison I love that man love what you guys are doing it’s it’s a really cool cause and and I’d love to go back 5 years from now and revisit what you think and thought this bridge thing would be and watch it blow your doors off you know what I mean brother thank you one of the things we were chatting about before the show and we’ve really it’s just been top of mind for both of us in this season you know over the last six months we’ve you know we’ve dealt with a tremendous amount of intensity and Community personally professionally it’s just been a season for the reason yeah and one of the things that I really like to talk about especially with individuals like you is is we we approach recovery early on and most certainly in the first five years with this really servant heart yeah we just serve others because well it’s true we understand that our recovery longterm is directly proportionate to our ability to give it away yes and so when that saves Our Lives you know generally speaking we’re all alone we don’t have a family and that is our family is a community but now we’re fathers yes you know two we’re both fathers of two and married and how has the transition been you know because as I was saying before the show people are looking at you from the Department of Corrections and they feel like they can’t touch Dan hu call in your experience with a million foot pole um but when they get there I think it’s important to be where your feet are yeah and to be present and how have you managed that personally and professionally and and what would be some of the things in community they they’d want the viewers to know to look out for when you are in long-term recovery and you do actually get all the blessings you were praying for all those years you know yeah so so the way that I I would answer that one is is I want to start from the beginning there like right when I first got out you know I was a a year and a half almost two years sober when I got out I did stay sober through and in recovery through my stay in the Department of Corrections when I first got out it had to be baby steps because I didn’t really have anybody there for me I had a program that I was a part of here that helped me tremendously but I couldn’t let myself get overwhelmed I like if I need to go down to the DMV and pay my reinstatement fee to get my driver’s license done today that’s one baby step if I just did one a day like like Darren Hardy talks about in The Compound Effect you get 1% better I think Atomic habits too 1% better every day and it’s it’s bite-sized it’s not eating the whole elephant so from that you know I was able to be blessed with getting into recovery into the recovery Community finding my wife but there were some certain things that in recovery I didn’t get to work on and they’re showing up I’m nearly 10 years completely abstinent that’s crazy man right I feel like I met yeah that’s wild yeah so even after you know this 10 years it’s like right when you get sober that’s just the start you get these big rocks out of the way you get these big rocks you escal you excavate them out of your terrain and then the little rocks that you didn’t really know about become the big rocks after that and one of a big rock for me recently was just like not having good boundaries and it’s like every time I get to a new place I get really excited and I want to go do all this stuff and I have to redraw a whole new set of boundaries and it creates a whole bunch of new rocks for me and one of the ones recently that I went through I was just looking at like you know we talk about self-care being a really important part of recovery but when you’re a father and a husband you got to find where you’re going to get your self-care because one of the things that I had been doing and it started to cause some turbulence in my relationship is you know like Monday like like the only day that I have off and I would be so protective of my selfcare it’s like Dan you don’t need a whole day while while your wife’s taking care of the kids and working and doing all this and clean get up and help buddy so that’s something I’ve just been through recently is I I I got to really look back at myself and just be like you you took this selfish thing a little too far Dan and I’ve got to experienc some pretty tremendous healing with it and it got to change my whole perspective to help me to show up better for my wife for Nicole because I adore her and to be there for my kids I’ll me and Ash we we we get doing the Jiu-Jitsu in the martial arts together yeah we have fun ellish he’s in gymnastics oh it’s great but yeah man just just constantly being able and being so self-aware that like I’m not fixed yeah and I don’t know if I wanted you know if I was fixed if I was at a spot where I don’t have to put in any more work I don’t think that that’d be fun you know like so like I’m constantly trying to just keep a growth mindset and just what’s next what’s next what’s next how can I help how can I take of my family first cuz I have like this concept called vertical alignment it’s like you know it’s like what do you value the most for me that looks like God Nicole my kids my work and if I make a decision that like puts one of those above the other one that’s what causes some of the chaos and the anxiety and I just had to get I just got a slap in the face and a check with that recently and I had to realign some of my things so that’s kind of like how I like draw my boundaries and make my decisions is it has to go off of my alignment what I hold most important to myself and I have to be very true to that yeah and it could be tough somebody calls and says hey man you know I can you come help me yeah can you come do this yeah like a gold retriever it’s like I’m coming you know here I come yeah but I love that too and it’s it’s something just to be really really mindful of and and and I think you know I often refer to it the Gabor mate kind of myth of normal is like otherwise unless Dan just was authentic and vulnerable with you everybody would been like Dan’s batting a thousand you know and Chris is batting a thousand and there’s been times in my life when I have been batting zero yeah and the world’s been thinking I’ve been batting a thousand and so that’s what I love about the recovery process what I love about people in recovery is this opportunity to really really connect yeah authentically yes you know yes because I think when we can do that in a humble authentic and vulnerable way we can move into these opportunities for healing and growth yes right but it’s so hard for it was so hard initially and Recovery to to say you know what I got that wrong yeah I would fight your tooth and nail everything it was this it was this it was this it’s like hey man someone’s just trying to tell you how they feel yeah you know yeah and so I’m grateful for that reminder today and I’m sure there’s some viewers that are in early recovery short long-term recovery personally and professionally that can relate to what you just said yeah thank I appreciate you talking about that how has being a father right four years now yes right Asher Dan brings his his youngest son over his name’s Asher he’s four years old my boys have been doing Jiu-Jitsu for a couple years and he kind of warm up with the boys boys will try and teach him some stuff and things like that but what has being a father done or not done for your for you professionally that’s a good one so professionally what what being a father has done for me back to the boundaries thing it’s helped me get some more boundaries because there’s certain things in my life prior to being a father that’s like oh I can take it or leave it or I can go have fun you don’t do that with kids you’re there for your kids you love your kids and
they’re so great they’re so great uh but what one of the things I I’ve really learned from is how to like I’ve never had a problem with letting my inner child out and I get to really do that with them and I and I love that and it’s it’s just it’s taught me how to take care of myself and show up for somebody better and to be more responsible to be mindful to be in this situation with them to not have a social media phone out which I have done I’m not I’m not perfect I’m not lie but like when I’m home in my son and I’m not so tired and he wants to play and it’s like hey Daddy you’re Michelangelo I’m Leonardo we’re going to play Ninja Turtles and I’m like knuckle up bud let’s do it or or my daughter she oh she loves wearing makeup and yes I’ve worn makeup many times and I love it it it just teaches me how to be more present like truly and authentically like hey I’m in here I get this moment this moment I might not ever get it again they’re going to grow up really fast and so getting to be there for them it’s it’s taught me how to be more more present and more in the moment and I truly enjoy it I love that man you’re you’re you’re bringing up something that I was talking about was it earlier this week or last week um this idea of our relationship with time yeah right and and and I think that’s something that recovery has really allowed for me yeah and and and initially it is a very harsh reality cuz I wasn’t you know when I first got into recovery I just wasn’t doing well and and the path ahead was very very steep but today being in long-term recovery and uh you know Sunday was 16 years since I took my last drink my dude been a long time and um but I I really started to idealize my relationship with time I’m 38 years old Jesse ller talks about this on his podcast a lot but he he talks about his relationship with time and what am I doing with it so my boy are on summer break right now we leave tomorrow on a 10-day camper B Trip why because if I live a great life maybe I got 52 Summers left yeah right that’s a great life yeah you know and next after this summer 51 yeah and that’s going to go like a flash in the pan yes right so I love what you’re talking about today is like is if we can be where our feet are yes we can Empower ourselves the people we care about in the world around us in a really tremendous way to maybe negotiate their relationship with time yes so that they can be there for the ones that they love yes you know it’s been an absolute pleasure having you on the show um I look up to you personally and professionally I love what you do in the community um your servant heart is one of the most robust and authentic that I’ve ever known thank brother grateful to have you on the team at Peaks I mean the surveys you you and and terara I mean and The Culinary you guys might as well run the whole company I mean it’s just it’s it’s it’s where it’s at and and and the reason is is because you show up with a whole heart you don’t hold back and what you see is what you get man so thanks for coming on the show buddy I appreciate you Chris I appreciate you let me come on the show and I just want to thank you because when I right when I got out and you were there for me when we were go work out at Villa I don’t even know if you knew it but you were showing me what this like steps ahead in like my longer term recovery could look like and you continue to do that to this day and I’m very grateful for you that brother yeah man thank you man thank you for the opportunity myud go peace