In this episode, Pam, Anna, and Erika explore the abundance mindset. We often find ourselves thinking about abundance versus scarcity in conversations on the podcast and in the Living Joyfully Network. In this episode, we dive into the many ways that shifting to abundance has helped us and our families with creative problem solving. We hope you find our conversation helpful on your unschooling journey!

THINGS WE MENTION IN THIS EPISODE

The Living Joyfully Shop – books, courses, including Four Pillars of Unschooling, coaching calls, and more!

The Living Joyfully Network

Watch the video of our conversation on YouTube.

Follow @exploringunschooling on Instagram.

Follow @pamlaricchia on Instagram and Facebook.

Check out our website, livingjoyfully.ca for more information about navigating relationships and exploring unschooling.

Sign up to our mailing list to receive The Living Joyfully Dispatch, our biweekly email newsletter, and get a free copy of Pam’s intro to unschooling ebook, What is Unschooling?

We invite you to join us in The Living Joyfully Network, a wonderful online community for parents to connect and engage in candid conversations about living and learning through the lens of unschooling. This month, we’re talking about seasons—in unschooling and in life. Come and be part of the conversation!

So much of what we talk about on this podcast and in the Living Joyfully Network isn’t actually about unschooling. It’s about life. On The Living Joyfully Podcast, Anna Brown and Pam Laricchia talk about life, relationships, and parenting. You can check out the archive here, or find it in your your favorite podcast player.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

ANNA: Hello, I’m Anna Brown with Living Joyfully, and today I am joined by my co-hosts, Pam Laricchia and Erika Ellis.

ERIKA AND PAM: Hello! Hi!

ANNA: Before we get started, I wanted to encourage you to check out our shop where you can find books, courses, coaching, and information about the Living Joyfully Network. And this also includes our new course, Four Pillars of Unschooling, where we explore four foundational ideas and paradigm shifts that helped us along our journey. The shop has resources and support for every stage of your journey. You can find the link in the show notes, or you can visit livingjoyfullyshop.com.

Today we’re going to be talking about the abundance mindset, how to cultivate it, and how it can help us on our unschooling journey. Erika, would you like to get us started?

ERIKA: I would! I love a mindset shift and the word abundance just feels so good to me, so I’m excited to dive into this one.

So, when we talk about abundance in our conversations on the podcast and on the Network, what we’re really talking about is a mindset. And when we’re cultivating that mindset of abundance, we open ourselves up to possibilities. We’re telling ourselves there’s plenty of time. We know that even if things don’t go as we initially imagined, that there are solutions and possibilities. It’s a feeling of keeping ourselves open.

And then the flip side of abundance is scarcity. And if we’re mentally in a place of scarcity, it can feel like there’s not enough time. We don’t have enough money. I can’t possibly do all the things that I need to do. We need to try to speed through things to get to the next thing. And so, a scarcity mindset is at play if I’m worried about the timeline of my children’s learning or if I’m feeling like a lot of pressure around making the proper decision in this moment.

And so, we end up using those two words a lot, abundance and scarcity to describe our mental states. And I think just recognizing when I’m getting stuck in that scarcity mode can help me to reframe and get to that more helpful mindset of abundance.

PAM: Yeah, I love that. It’s absolutely a mindset shift. And I think, like in your examples, it’s so great to remember that it applies to so much more than just money. Many conversations where you hear talk about scarcity and abundance mindset, they are in relation to money and income and those kinds of things. But yes, bigger picture, that same mindset shift can be so helpful to recognize, it’s a scarcity of time if you’re worried, oh, what are my kids learning? When are they going to learn this? And, oh my gosh, what if they don’t learn this?

When we shift to that lifelong learning perspective, and we recognize that, you know what? When something becomes interesting to them or important to them or just hits something that they’re wanting to accomplish or do, that’s when they can learn it and that’s when they will learn it with less effort. Or it doesn’t seem hard. It almost doesn’t seem like you’re learning, but that’s because you’ve got a reason for it. It’s become important. It’s not like, learn this now for some day. That’s hard, because, what are you going to connect that to? How’s that going to make sense?

But when you make that shift to lifelong learning, it takes that scarcity of time component away and helps you realize that there is an abundance and there’s a lifetime of it where things can bubble up along the way. So, I just find it really fun, too, when I’m stressed about something to ask if there is an abundance component to it or a scarcity component to it. Just because that starts helping me think about it in a little bit bigger picture. And that’s when there are possibilities and solutions versus the more tunnel vision that happens to me when I’m thinking scarcity.

ANNA: Yeah. And I think for me it’s really the same thing that you both just said, but it’s that energetic shift. Because, like you said, Erika, we can put it into those categories a lot. When I’m thinking about if I’m feeling some tightness or something, it’s like, ooh, what’s happening there? And then I recognize, oh, I’m bringing that scarcity energy to this. It is tunneling me in and I feel the contraction just even thinking about it. And so, that abundance is almost like the deep breath. It’s like, oh, okay, I’ve got time.

And it’s funny, because I’m glad you brought up plenty of time, because you know I say that all the time and it really is, to me, exactly abundance. It really centers me to, this is a long game. Whatever it is, even if it’s something that’s going to complete in the next week or two, it’s like this deep breath. There’s plenty of time. We’re going to work this out. And so, that energy that I bring to it is really what we’re talking about in terms of the paradigm shift today.

But there are specific things that come up that I think are fun to explore. And one of the big ones for me was the idea that everything didn’t have to come from me. I think as parents, especially when we have little kids, everything’s coming from me, food, and all the things. And so, this shift to recognizing like, oh, there’s a broader world here. There are more people in my kids’ lives. And I noticed them finding ways to make things happen that I didn’t know could happen, and I couldn’t find the path myself.

And so, that’s when, again, I realized I was tunneling in on, okay, they’re asking for something or wanting to do something, and I’m thinking there’s one path to this thing that they’re asking about. “I want to get a horse,” or, “I want to do,” whatever big idea thing they might have. And I’m thinking there’s one way. That’s tunneling me in.

And so, when I can breathe into, the world is big and abundant and there are so many different ways, then we just saw magical things happen, just interesting connections and meeting new people and things. And so, again, for me it was always about checking that energy, but recognizing that this is broader than just me having to say, oh, we don’t have the money for that, or we don’t have the time for that, or whatever might be the constraint.

ERIKA: Yeah, I, I actually was going to mention horses, because I feel like it’s just one of those potentially scary, big things that could come up. So, just imagine any kind of moment when your kid comes to you with an interest that just feels like, oh my god, we don’t have the money for this. We don’t have the time for this, or the space for this, or whatever it is. And so, I just love that. It’s not that you’re changing what you’re doing necessarily, it’s changing how you’re thinking about what you’re doing. And it’s opening that up.

And so, it really does feel like the scarcity view is that tunnel vision. I can only see that they said they want horseback riding lessons. I’m seeing that it’s going to look like this and it’s going to cost this and it’s going to take this time, and all these different things like that. There’s just that one path that I can first see and if I get stuck in, but that won’t work for us, then that’s it. That’s the end of it. And it feels like being trapped.

And so, then the abundance, and I mean, we’ve had this happen so many times in the Network where someone will bring, oh my gosh, I’m freaking out because my kid wants this. And it’s like, okay, but you’re in the scarcity mindset of, we can’t do it because of X, Y, Z. And so, switching to the abundance just feels like taking a broader view of the whole thing. Opening myself up to all the different ways that we could incorporate an interest or explore things without it costing money. Or like you’re saying, everything doesn’t have to come from me. It doesn’t mean that I have to be the one with all the answers. We could just start with being creative and exploring things and if I assume that abundance is actually there and that abundance is the reality, it just helps so much with that creativity and exploring all the different possible options.

PAM: I do think that is such a helpful step. I’m trying to think, to notice this shift, so for me it’s like I just need to notice when I’m uncomfortable about something or if you’re feeling that overwhelmed, just like you were describing there, Erika, like, oh my gosh, this is the path and we can’t do that. We can’t do that. So, it’s when I’m feeling uncomfortable, it’s like, okay, just ask myself some questions. Right? And then that’s when you remember. Because we all get stuck in that moment. I think it’s not that it never happens just because you know that there’s a difference between scarcity and abundance.

It’s like, okay, I need to find the clues for how I react to a feeling of scarcity. What does it look like for me? So that I can just be on the lookout for those little clues or triggers, or whatever you want to call them, that give you that, oh, okay, let’s just play around with this a little bit more.

Because then, yes, all that you guys were talking about. When we shift to that abundance, it is like remembering, oh, I don’t need to have all the solutions. We can have conversations. Because I have also found quite often when someone comes with an ask or I think of something and my immediate thought is thinking, oh, we can’t do that. Lack of time, lack of money, lack of like all the things. When you take that moment to have a conversation, that is often their solution to the need. Maybe it doesn’t need to look like that. We want to make it look like the way that they’re talking about, but when we can have conversations and get down to what are they wanting, like, I really want to dance. I really want to go horseback riding. You don’t have to jump to owning a horse to try out horseback riding.

So, in having those conversations, it goes back to our why not yes? Speaking of Four Pillars of Unschooling course, that’s when we can open up to the abundance, we can open up to the creative ideas, we can open up to other possible paths.
And even recognizing the first baby step. Maybe the first baby step is going and just watching people and just getting to maybe meet a few horses. And then maybe it’s finding a place where maybe it’s just a ride, booking a ride, a trail ride, and you go and do that and is that fun? And then it’s like, oh, maybe lessons. That’s something that’s a little more regular.

There are so many baby steps along the way, and then at each step you can learn a little bit more about them. And with that abundance mindset, it’s not like each step has to be this one thing on this one path. The beautiful thing about seeing the abundance is like, oh, we see this one little step and let’s try it, get our feedback, see how it goes, and look at all the other possibilities that might exist along with this. Now we’ve had this experience and we know how it feels.

I think, too, the challenge in that shift as well is the plenty of time piece. We want to deliver as fast as possible, but when we’re like, oh no, we don’t need to jump to the end in the most efficient way, that’s when we start bubbling up around trust. It’s like, oh, I trust that things will unfold, baby step by baby step in some way, in that direction, but I don’t need to presuppose what it looks like in the end.

We’re going to learn so much each step of the way that we may tweak it and end up someplace different, but someplace better that’s more related to what the person was actually wanting versus how they verbally framed it the first time they mentioned it to us.

ANNA: Digging into those needs, I think, is so important. And something that you said earlier led me on a slight bit of a tangent, but it is about how to notice the blocks or switch, and that is to then to really feel like, okay, where’s that tightness coming from? Because this could be coming from a lot of places. Sometimes it can be coming from maybe a guilt of, we don’t have the money to do that right now, and am I harming my kids or am I holding them back somehow? And it’s like, no, but we have to process that. We have to process that, like, okay. That’s where that’s coming from.

Or sometimes maybe we weren’t heard as a child, and so it’s really important for us to hear our kids and we’re feeling like we’re not hearing them, but watch for those little triggers and just give yourself some moments around that, because like Pam said, it’s then we can lean back into the baby steps of, I can hear my child and we can have a conversation and we can be taking baby steps. We don’t have to jump all the way to the end and solve it and have this one solution that’s come out of it.

But give yourself some space around that, because I think you’ll feel it in your body if you’re feeling that tightness. Or if their big idea is making you, I mean, sometimes it might make you grumpy or a little snappy, like, oh, why is there another big idea that we’ve got to do? Recognize that there’s something there that I want to figure out and give myself some space and love around, because it is hard. There’s lots going on and kids have big ideas.

And so, just recognizing that there are so many ways to support them in cultivating the big ideas, moving towards the big ideas that doesn’t involve you having to step out of your comfort zone even. And maybe you will a little bit down the road, but it’s not like you have to leap out of it the minute an idea comes. Because like you said, there are needs under that idea that we can start to play with and have conversations. That helps the person feel heard, helps them feel seen, helps them really fine tune the idea because it may just be this idea thrown out and they want to fine tune it and understand it and have a conversation about it. And so, I just wanted to make sure I watched any kind of reactions that were about me, so that I wasn’t putting that on the situation or the discussion that was happening with my child.

ERIKA: Yeah. Oh my gosh, I love that. And I’m just thinking about how many places those triggers and messages could be coming from, just with social media and seeing other people’s lives and comparing that to our life, that could definitely trigger a feeling of scarcity or like, I should be doing it in a way that looks like this or just that comparison can cause that feeling of getting stuck there. But when the big ideas come, the more I can deep breathe myself through, it’s just conversations, it’s just exploration. We’re just being creative and cultivating that creativity and openness with that abundance mindset. That helps everyone in the family with every single thing.

It’s going to serve our children later if, when they think of something, they have that practice of not tunneling in on the one one way. It’s fun brainstorming and creatively thinking about things as a family. I feel like it’s just so valuable.

And it was making me also think that it’s super common, especially in a parent role or the adult role to feel the need to come in with a solution to solve the problem. And it’s all related, but everything doesn’t have to come from me. It just doesn’t occur to me at the beginning, because, well, I’m the parent and I’m the one with the money and so it’s really easy to accidentally come with a solution and not even almost realize that I’m doing it. And especially if they seem to have a very clear idea about what they want to do, too. It’s like, okay, we all are just tunneled in on this thing now. And it can cause this all to get stuck, I think, especially if it feels like something that’s just not doable because of money or anything else.
But yeah, just remembering that I don’t need to come with a solution. Or if I notice myself coming with a solution, I can be like, oh wait, that was a solution. This doesn’t have to be the one way. It’s all such great learning for moving through problems and moving through life.

PAM: Yeah. They really are skills, for lack of a better word, but just gaining experience with different ways to move through things. To see that, I want a horse, is the first step, not the answer. And I found if that’s the family ethos and the way we process and move through things, I found after months, years of experience, that’s how they were processing, like you mentioned. They’re taking that out into the world with them and the way that they look at things, there is more creativity. There are possibilities. And also it’s not so much about the timeline. It’s not like I need everything to be done immediately. Because they’ve had so much experience growing up with that, let’s do the thing and let’s figure out a way to make it work. And checking in with the different contexts and the different constraints that are part of getting to whatever direction you’re wanting to go. There are just so many pieces. Anna?

ANNA: I got excited because of what you just said, which was the trust. And you mentioned it earlier, that it’s an important piece. And this is why. And it’s because there’s a trust. And like you said, Erika, it’s not just the big things like the horse, it’s the little things like the popsicles ran out. It’s the little things where we develop this trust of, we are going to figure this out. And the timeline is such a perfect thing, because it may not be immediately that we can get more popsicles, but they know that I’m not going to forget about it. I’m not brushing them off. I’m not just not going to think about it because we just went to the grocery store. We’re going to keep it top of mind. We’re going to remember it. We’re going to put it on the list. We’re going to make sure. We’re going to recognize that maybe we didn’t get enough popsicles last time. It’s just going to be this idea of like, oh, okay, what I’m saying is important and valued in my family, and there’s a trust that we’ll figure it out.

So, what I think you’ll see shift when that trust develops is they’re not coming at things with such a sense of urgency. Because I think if we don’t feel heard, and this is adults and kids alike, if we don’t feel heard, we get louder and maybe a little bit more insistent and maybe bring a little bit more sense of urgency.

Like, “You don’t understand how important this is to me.” But when we develop that trust, when we follow through and we keep having the conversations and we keep moving those baby steps towards it, it changes it, because we all can do that deep breath that I talked about at the beginning and go, yeah, we’re going to figure this out. There are lots of different ways to get there. And so, the way you said it, Pam, I was like, oh, that’s it. That’s why trust is so important. It’s not about solving it immediately. It is about just knowing we are hearing each other and we’re moving in that direction.

PAM: And I’ve got to say, the popsicle example is just beautiful. Let’s walk through that just a touch. You know, the, oh man, I’d like a popsicle and we’re out of them. We can say, oh, I’ll put it on the list for next time. But maybe we grocery shopped yesterday and we didn’t get enough and we had a whole bunch of friends over and we went through them faster than we expected. And when we have that trust in the relationship and they feel comfortable sharing, their reaction can be, oh, but I really want one now. There’s that urgency. Maybe it’s hot, maybe whatever. There doesn’t need to be a reason or an excuse or anything.

But then that’s a trust piece, too, that it’ll be like, oh, I can’t go right now, but I can go later today. When we realize, oh, a week from now, next time I’m running into town isn’t going to work for them. But that’s that trust piece, that they trust us that they can share without having to get louder and louder and louder. Because if they feel like we’re not hearing them, they are going to just be like, but no, but no. And then all sorts of chaos can unfold.

But when they trust that they could say no, I can’t wait till five days from now or three days from now, or even tomorrow sometimes. But when they know there’s that trust, they’ll actually check in with themselves and, and say they can wait. Or maybe, if you’re just getting into this, maybe they will need it now. But if we can deliver it now, and now and now, and they can trust that if now is real, we will do as much as possible. I find that then they can relax because they’ve got that trust. They see that when something’s urgent, we will do as much as we can to help them in that moment. But then once that trust develops, they can check in with themselves. It’s like, okay, yeah, you know what? I had two popsicles today, tomorrow is fine, and then maybe next grocery shopping is fine. It is just super fascinating to see that develop.

But yeah, I don’t want people to expect that immediately if they’re just making that shift now, because that trust takes some time to develop and we need to show that they can trust us right through our actions.

ANNA: Okay. One quick thing, Erika, because I know you have something to say, too, but this is about the popsicle. That takes a little bit of time to develop. Here’s the energy piece that we’re talking about. So, when that happens, we don’t have enough popsicles, whatever, I can be frustrated like, okay, we literally just went to the store. Why do we not have enough popsicles? I can get frustrated or I can be like, oh my gosh, it is so hot outside. We can’t get to the store right now, but let’s crush some ice. Let’s pour some stuff on it. Let’s make something. That’s that abundance, that energy shift that for me was so important, because I could get stuck in that place of like, okay, oh my gosh, I just went grocery shopping. I don’t want to go again. You know how I feel about grocery shopping? That’s not fun for me. But that’s me tunneling in, that’s me bringing that scarcity mindset when we can have fun with it. We still may need to get the popsicles down the road, maybe even tomorrow or whatever, but I’m bringing a lightness to it and a connection to it that feels better to me and it feels better to them.

PAM: And how fun might it be to make popsicles?

ERIKA: Stick a spoon in it and let’s see what happens. Now we also have an activity to do. But right. So, it’s the trust. It’s kids trusting that we are not just shutting things down because of our fears and our scarcity and our tunnel vision. So, there’s that trust that we’re going to creatively work through things together. But I think the other part of trust for the abundance mindset is us trusting in abundance itself.

And so, that has been such a big shift for me that really does help when I’m starting to have worries and fears about things, if I can come back to trusting there’s going to be a way to move through it, trusting that there are going to be plenty of possibilities and trusting in our capability to make things happen in one way or another.

And it won’t necessarily be that original vision that I thought was going to happen, but there are abundant possibilities. That is what really, just day to day, helps me move through our lives together.

PAM: That’s so brilliant. There are so many pieces. There’s an abundance of pieces to the abundance mindset. That energy piece that we can bring. I’ll start with noticing our triggers, noticing something that that tells us, oh, it might be helpful to look at this shift to see more possibilities.

The energy we bring to it, the trust that we’re developing, the openness to all sorts of possibilities. It really is the release. To the brainstorming side of it, maybe we suggest making the popsicles and they’re like, no, I need it now. And then you’re crushing ice maybe. But releasing that pressure of scarcity that we’re feeling, that is just so key, I think, to shifting to that energy, to that trust in abundance unfolding, even if we don’t know how in the moment it’s going to unfold. But that it’s happened before.

And I think one other piece that’s so helpful is each time, especially when you’re first working at this, is to make note when it works out. It’s like, oh, I had no idea that that’s where we’d end up. Because maybe we’re starting to talk about making juice and then they think of something else they want to freeze or they want to go play in the bath now, because we’re talking about liquid things. You just never know where it’s going to go.

But I think when we can find proof that it works, we have those little reminders. It’s like, oh yeah, this helped. Because that’s just something that helped me notice my triggers a little bit faster. And to be a little bit more like, oh yes, I want to try this mindset shift, because it’s kind of fun. So, there are just so many little pieces that can be involved, and that’s why we always talk about playing with things for ourselves. See which pieces work for you, because maybe not all of the pieces are meaningful to each person. Our triggers are definitely going to be different, because there will be a lot of things from our childhood and from conventional voices that we have taken in and absorbed that we’re going to be working through.

But it’s so fun to play with because, for me, it’s goes back to curiosity. When I can be curious about where it’s going to go, that is something that helps me make that shift to, oh, okay, let’s explore here rather than tunneling into Yes/No, we can or can’t do this particular thing.

ERIKA: Yeah, I was thinking that it’s harder to get to the abundance mindset if I am having a hard time personally, so if I’m in pain or if I’m sick, or if I haven’t had enough sleep, all those self-care pieces or the hungry, angry, lonely, tired, that we’ve talked about, the HALT pieces. All of those could potentially contribute to me getting in that scarcity mindset.

So, then I feel like my job is to notice, oh, it’s that. These are my reasons. Let me try to either take care of myself or be kind to myself that this is a hard moment, but it still is going to be helpful if I can try to shift to an abundance mindset. But those are going to be the more challenging times to get to that place for me.

ANNA: Right. And I feel like our energy does really set the stage. So, being aware of that helps, because again, if we’re going to a scarcity place, you’ll see your kids going to a scarcity place, which then maybe becomes more insistent or more frustrated or wanting something a certain way because it’s feeling scarce. Like, I’ve got to hone in on this, I have to have it right now, kind of thing.

But I think you’re so right that sometimes when our capacity’s low for whatever reason, that’s hard. But that’s when we talk about narration, because I think kids are more capable than we think. If we can say, okay, I know we can solve this, but right now I’m starving and I can’t think and I’m so tired. We are going to get to this. Just narrating a little bit about what’s happening can calm their nervous system to go, okay. They hear me. They’re not helping me right this moment, but they hear me and it’s important. So, that’s a little baby step we can do when we can’t like jump to just the creativity and the abundance if there’s some capacity issues. Just talk about it, you know?

PAM: Yeah. And that’s where the trust comes in as well. When we’ve built that trust and we have been able to share, narrate, and mention if we’re not feeling well or we’re tired or whatever, that they can hear those and take them in, because they don’t feel like we’re just trying to put them off.

ANNA: Right. And I would say definitely follow up. So, if you say something like, “Okay, I’m just too tired right now, it’s really late and I want to revisit it,” write it down, put it on the whiteboard, whatever your family does to show that we are going to revisit this first thing in the morning and do it. Because that’s how we develop the trust by following through, by being there, by remembering.
And even they may have moved on. That’s okay, but you’re still there to say, “Hey, remember that thing you were talking about at 11:00 last night? Do you want to revisit it and figure out how we can do it?” And they may be like, “Oh no, I don’t care.” And that’s okay. But just, I wanted to make sure I was remembering to follow up and not just like, okay, I got them to be quiet and now I’m like not going back to that again.

PAM: Yeah. You don’t want to be just hoping that they don’t bring it up again, because that’s where you’re going to lose points in the trust. It really is all about the actions following the words. That’s where the trust is going to develop. When they know that you will follow through, then they don’t need that immediacy as much. Rather than, “I need it immediately, because if we wait six hours, you’re just going to have forgotten it.” Right? But when they can trust that we’ll come back to it, happily come back to it, so often they get it.

ANNA: Yes. Well, I loved this! It was very fun to dive into abundance and I think there is just lots to think about. Checking in with our triggers, watching the energy we’re bringing, see how it changes things. Play with it. I love that, Pam, let’s just play with it and see if it shifts anything in your house. I think that’ll be really fun.

So, thanks to you both for being here today. And thank you for listening. We hope you found it helpful on your unschooling journey. And if you enjoy these kinds of conversations, we know that you would love the Living Joyfully Network. It is such an amazing group of people connecting and having thoughtful conversations about things and teasing out all the different nuances, and I just love it so much. So, you can learn more about that at livingjoyfully.ca/network and we hope to see you all there.
PAM AND ERIKA: Bye!

ANNA: Take care!