Senan Khawaja is the Co-founder and CEO of Kollegio, a startup using AI to bring personalized college and career guidance to every student, not just those who can afford it. He’s also a recent Stanford grad who’s thinking hard about how higher ed needs to change.

In this episode, we talk about the messy reality of the college application process, the future of mentorship in an AI-driven world, and what it takes to build something meaningful inside a system that wasn’t designed for equity or access.

Inside This Episode with Senan Khawaja:

• The inspiration behind Kollegio and how it’s redefining guidance counseling
• How universities are rethinking recruitment, marketing, and value
• Why “boring businesses” like insurance may be the way
• The pressure cooker of college apps—from the Bay Area to the boardroom
• What students really need—and why AI might deliver it better
• How to scale trust, mentorship, and guidance in a messy, changing world
• The future of higher ed: traditional, online, hybrid… or something entirely new

Chapters

[00:00:00] AI Personalization and Building for the Future
[00:00:39] Introducing Entrepreneur Perspectives and Eric’s Background
[00:02:30] Starting a Podcast and the Power of Media Leverage
[00:04:07] The Beauty of Putting Content Out into the World
[00:05:34] Tech Startups vs. Boring Businesses: Excitement and Innovation
[00:06:31] Kollegio’s Marketplace Model: Free for Students, Valuable for Colleges
[00:08:50] Democratizing Access to College Counseling
[00:10:45] How Universities Fund Marketing Through Personalized Student Engagement
[00:12:50] Removing Bias and Prioritizing Student Success in Recommendations
[00:14:33] The Stress and Anxiety of the College Application Process
[00:15:47] Two Worlds of College Decisions: Prestige Race vs. Basic Choices
[00:17:46] Upheaval in Higher Ed: Rising Costs and Demographic Shifts
[00:19:39] Kollegio as a Trusted Partner for Personalized Next Steps
[00:21:03] Reflections on Stanford and the Prestige Factor in Education
[00:22:08] Challenges for Universities: Defensive vs. Forward-Thinking Strategies
[00:24:00] Evolution of Education: From Prestige to ROI-Focused Outcomes
[00:25:48] Avoiding Polarization: Getting Real About College Choices
[00:27:34] AI Fluency in Universities and Future Policies
[00:28:16] Predicting College in 2030: Traditional, Online, and New Pathways
[00:30:16] Mindset Shifts and Expanding Options Like Hybrid Models
[00:31:55] The Frustrating Reality of College Costs and Loans
[00:33:15] Tuition Increases, Discount Rates, and Stagnant Net Revenue
[00:35:29] Linking College Value to Career Readiness in a Changing Job Market
[00:37:00] Who Should Teach AI? Questioning University Expertise
[00:38:49] Disconnects in Curriculum, Signaling, and Job Needs
[00:40:50] College Closures, Consolidations, and Rethinking Institutions
[00:42:55] The Messy Reality of Life Paths and Disruptions
[00:45:00] Pivotal Moments, Human Mentorship, and AI’s Role
[00:47:14] Authenticity Over Box-Checking in Applications
[00:49:11] Counselor Shortages and Scaling Guidance with AI
[00:51:46] How to Connect with Senan and Kollegio
[00:52:16] Episode Wrap-Up and Closing Thoughts

Senan Khawaja & Kollegio:

• Kollegio Website
• Kollegio: announces $2.8MM Seed Round via PR Newswire
• Instagram
• Linkedin
• TikTok

Related Episodes:

• Tastytrade: How a Trading & Media Empire Was Built by Giving Everything Away | Scott Sheridan CEO
• Ankit Somani | Ex-Google, Rare-Earth-Free Motors, $20M Seed, Rethinking College
• Dr. Shalabh Gupta | Biotech, AI, and Making Dialysis Optional

Entrepreneur Perspectives is produced by QuietLoud Studios — a modern media network and a KazSource brand.

Get in touch with Eric Kasimov:
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LinkedIn

Credits:
Music by Jess & Ricky: SoundCloud

Episode Transcript: Senan Khawaja (Kollegio)

Entrepreneur Perspectives – Guest: Senan Khawaja – Company: Kollegio – Host: Eric Kasimov

[00:00–05:00]
Launching Kollegio + Why Storytelling Matters
Intro, podcast setup, the idea behind building something publicly, and early business context

[00:00:00] Senan: That’s kind of the beauty of AI is like the ability to personalize for each individual person. So yeah, I’m definitely excited to see where it goes and kind of being able to build at the precipice of ai ’cause we’re building into a system that we hope is gonna get better. Right? Yeah. So it’s like, okay, at Jaji BD four, it’s functioning at a certain level, but at five it’s gonna be even better.

[00:00:19] Senan: At six, it’s gonna be even better. Of itself is just gonna get better as time goes on. So yeah, that’s gonna be exciting to see.

[00:00:39] Eric: Entrepreneur Perspectives is produced by Quiet Loud Studios, a production company, and content network. Learn more at quietloudstudios.com.

We have an insurance brokerage business. And so our clients are wealth managers, typically like the wires, banks, commercial agencies, that kind of thing. So we’re going B2B, doing third party, going [00:01:00] direct to their clients.

[00:01:00] Eric: So they have hundreds if not thousands of clients, and been doing that for a long time. And that industry’s the life insurance industry. So we’re doing it like more with, uh, businesses and business clientele, also consumers. Entrepreneurs, founders, all that kind of thing. And what I started realizing, and this is pre COVID, is like 2013, I had moved over and started my own business.

[00:01:25] Eric: And stories are just getting old in the insurance industry. It’s such an archaic business and it’s a good business, right. Sometimes the boring businesses are actually good. Yeah. Usually. Usually, yeah. And nowadays everyone’s just like looking for the sexy thing. Right. And I get it right. And I’m sure you live in that world of like how let’s create the new AI thing.

[00:01:41] Eric: And that’s absolutely right. So I was showing up and just creating con like telling stories the same story. I’m like, I’m bored. I, I don’t wanna do this for the next, you know, how many years started creating content, started blogging, doing all that, and everyone’s like, don’t do that. That’s stupid. Like, all that kind of stuff.

[00:01:57] Eric: So it was funny. Then there was like [00:02:00] one founder, a business owner in Utah and he had somehow we connected on Twitter and he is like, can you do this for me? And I’m like, yeah, let’s do that. So we started helping him and his story wasn’t like, he was great. He was doing amazing things. His story had nothing to do with like his business really.

[00:02:16] Eric: It was about like who he was as an individual. And if like if I had a kid, I would want my kid to go work for that guy because of all the other stuff. And then everything else was like just part of it. So we started creating that and then fast forward had a few people come in and said like, you should have a podcast.

[00:02:30] Eric: You should start talking to people online. Like, that’s weird. Like, how would I do that? We started doing it and fast forward. Yeah, so it, and then you start realizing, right, it becomes. It’s like the whole naval advocate, right? Like the coding and the, the leverage that you can create from coding. But then like media is the other one, labor, human labor is the other.

[00:02:48] Eric: So I was just kind of floored by, I always felt like in that transactional community, you had to be there, get the transaction, get the deal done, work through that deal, work through that timeline. Whereas in like media. [00:03:00] Someone could just reach out to you because they heard your podcast or read a blog post or whatever, and that could lead to who knows what.

[00:03:06] Eric: So it was like very different in that space. So now, now we’re just, I see it as like just creating media assets and the assets create. Sometimes they, people pay us, so we’ll do podcast production for companies, which has been awesome. And then I get to watch that founder who’s like, I don’t know if I want this.

[00:03:21] Eric: Or it’s not just podcasts. It could be a blog. It could be social media. It could be like, Hey, let’s just talk and turn it into snippets and whatever. Or who knows what it turns into. And you watch that individual be like, this is what I like to do more than everything else, because now I’m casting the vision, I’m, I’m thinking through ideas.

[00:03:38] Eric: I’m doing all this stuff. And so, you know, that plus our own content like this, and I get to talk to people like you. Like I said before, I have three kids, one in college, one’s on his way to college. I’ve gone through the process, I’m watching it, and I’m just always fascinated and trying to learn. And so it’s like, wait, so I can have this conversation with you.

[00:03:58] Eric: It doesn’t always have to have like [00:04:00] this positive ROI. Like there’s just this unknown thing. So your question led me a lot of different thoughts on all of it, but what were you saying?

[00:04:07] Senan: I was just saying I think that there’s definitely something beautiful in the idea of like putting something out into the world and people might stumble upon it, whether that’s few days, few hours, few weeks, few years down the line and just.

[00:04:23] Senan: Connect people and connect ideas, and it’s just a thing that exists out in the world. And yeah, I think it’s definitely something really, really beautiful and powerful. Yeah.

[00:04:34] Eric: Yeah. Like sales is real, right? Like I think there’s a lot of people who are afraid of it. But you have to ask questions, right? But it has to be done genuinely.

[00:04:43] Eric: So it’s like I can reach out and I know like, Hey, if I reach out, I genuinely want to talk to you. Like, I’m not just gonna reach out to random people and like, let’s talk or let’s do, and I, I have no intent of like, this has to go. So like, it could just be an awesome conversation. Like that’s like you said that to your point about like, that’s the beautiful thing.

[00:04:57] Eric: And not that [00:05:00] long ago you couldn’t have done this, and now you can, and then, I don’t know, you’d just be better for it. It helps other people too. So anyway, yeah, so that’s kind of how all that started and it’s just ongoing as you know. And I heard you talking on, I think it was like this weekend ed tech, I don’t know when that was.

[05:00–10:00]
Tech Startups vs. Boring Businesses
Comparing the excitement of tech with meaningful “boring” industries like insurance

[00:05:16] Eric: Might have been like a year ago or six or a few months, or maybe just recently. Like you are exploring at like, you’re exploring so many different avenues with where this could go. Like maybe you do it like you’re this grand master schema, like here’s what’s gonna end up. But like I don’t think you’re making any bones about it.

[00:05:32] Eric: Like this could go in so many different directions.

[00:05:34] Senan: Yeah, I definitely think when you’re building something as a tech startup and just kind of to your first initial point like about insurance and boring businesses, I definitely think boring businesses are, are great and important for the world, but I’m really yeah, grateful to be able to be on the other side where it’s like, okay, maybe there’s a 90% failure rate, but this is kind of where a lot of the excitement and innovation happens, [00:06:00] which I’m, it’s, I guess it’s part in.

[00:06:02] Senan: Part and parcel of, of the equation where it’s like, okay, you get to be part of something exciting. But you know, if I invested in laundromats and I was like at an opening laundromats, I’m sure I’d have a much more stable source of income that I’d be building. But yeah, it’s definitely in, in terms of vision and like how we go, it’s like, it’s actually pretty interesting because when you talk to certain people, like I think now, like two years into the company now, I’m talking a lot about.

[00:06:31] Senan: What’s happening right now, just because we’re actually a very difficult business that we’ve decided to set up, and I’m happy to dive in more about the specifics, but on one side, we have students, and students don’t pay us. So it’s like we have a product that’s for the students that doesn’t make us any money, and then as students use the platform and we get to know them really well, then all of a sudden it becomes very valuable for colleges.

[00:06:53] Senan: And then colleges come and wanna have virtual events and wanna be listed and market to students and things like that. So it’s. [00:07:00] It’s this interesting kind of marketplace that we’ve set up. And I think that it definitely can be super successful and it can be the future, but it’s the type of business that can only exist with venture capital and all of these kind of other systems just because it’s been nearly two years and, and setting up this process, right, and setting up kind of the marketplace.

[00:07:22] Senan: And now we’re working with nearly a hundred thousand students and we have awesome institutional partners and things like that. It’s something that if I was bootstrapping or trying to do from day one, it wouldn’t necessarily occur. But over the course of these two years, it’s always been about selling the vision of what we’re gonna become and how yeah, where we’re gonna go.

[00:07:43] Senan: And it’s, I think, less of a master plan and more of a story that we tell and a story of, imagine a world if every student, no matter who they were, where they came from. Good. Access this level of [00:08:00] personalized career guidance, coaching that, and college guidance coaching that traditionally was only reserved for the uber wealthy.

[00:08:08] Senan: And it’s what does that world look like and and sharing that. And that’s, I guess what the majority of the past two years have been. And then recently, I think in the last three, four months, it’s been now a lot more that we’re at a stage of, okay, we can actually tangibly do things as a business ourselves.

[00:08:25] Senan: Which also has been really, really cool. So it’s not just those farsighted conversations, but it’s also like engaging in partnerships and we’re hoping to get a few really exciting partnerships off the ground with some really awesome players who are existing in the space in the next few weeks. But yeah, it’s kind of those two conversations, like what can happen right now and what can happen in the future.

[00:08:45] Senan: And for the majority of the two years, it’s just been talking about what can happen in the future.

[00:08:50] Eric: Yeah, I get that. When you’re helping. Give access to this counseling to go to college. Right? And typically there’d be a massive cost to it, [00:09:00] whether you go to a private school or you hire someone independently, which I believe you did some of that work as well.

[00:09:04] Eric: And then you realize like, wait a second, what’s gonna get me up in the morning to do this? You can’t do that. And then say, on top of it, we’re gonna charge you. I don’t know. A subscription fee, right. Or a large payment fee on the front end of it. So that’s that combination, like you were saying before of like, okay, we’re gonna give you access to this, but we need funding in order to make this thing work so we can give access to the student that otherwise would not have that.

[00:09:24] Eric: Right. That’s the complicated thing, I think one of the things you’re talking about.

[00:09:27] Senan: Yeah. No, definitely. I think there are players in the space who try to do that. They try to charge folks and best of luck to them. But I think that. That was also our initial thesis, right? Where it’s like, okay, this, the average person in the United States is paying five to $10,000 for this service, and now we want to like bring it to 1% of the price point where they’re paying, you know, 50 to a hundred dollars.

[00:09:55] Senan: But then the reality is that there’s still so many people who are left out [00:10:00] because of that. And it’s twofold. One, which I’m kind of grateful, very grateful how this paid out, but it’s like on one end you have. Like the impact side, right? So it’s like I can be more impactful, reach more first generation, low income, English as a second language students, which are the majority of students on the platform if the platform is completely free.

[10:00–15:00]
Fixing College Access and Guidance
Scaling support with AI, shifting how colleges recruit, and removing bias

[00:10:20] Senan: And then two, also from the business perspective, I can actually achieve wide more widespread distribution and create more value if it’s free. So it’s kind of like these two prevailing concepts that that we’re running with at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. Do the

[00:10:36] Eric: universities at some point become. Part of the funding mechanism for what you all are doing, like the students you don’t want

to

[00:10:45] Senan: pay?

[00:10:45] Senan: Probably. Yeah. So universities do pay us and that’s how essentially we’d make money. So it’s very interesting. A university on average will pay $3,000 on marketing per student per year. Right? So that’s non personnel [00:11:00] spend. So if, if the college down the street, like I live in the Bay Area, Menlo College, for example, or Santa Clara University, if they wanna enroll a thousand students.

[00:11:08] Senan: They’re spending upwards of $3,000 per student. So that’s $3 million in marketing spend. That’s not staff, that’s just marketing. So it’s really a quite a large untapped market. And the thesis is okay instead of spending, you know, like on a billboard, right? Like old school marketing where Facebook ads, where we can actually find the students who are one relevant to you.

[00:11:36] Senan: And then two, communicate to them about the things that they actually care about in a language that they understand. So Eric, if you love to play soccer, if you’re in your high school music club, you should be learning about Menlo College’s soccer team and music clubs and things like that. Right. And that’s the level of personalization we can get to.

[00:11:54] Senan: And it’s, yeah, it’s, it’s something that’s really valuable for colleges because we have a depth and breadth [00:12:00] of students that. Really never been seen before in the market because students come and they use our platform for hours over weeks, months, and years. So it’s, yeah, it’s really that deeper engagement that we see there.

[00:12:12] Senan: And on the flip side, for the student, we’re also like very avidly, a student first platform. We’re not trying to put our finger on the scale anyway. It’s like if you’re a kid and none of our college partners are a good fit for you, that’s totally fine. Like, uh, those will just be the colleges that are hosting events on the platform and, and things like that, right?

[00:12:32] Senan: So it’s just the space that we’ve created where student success is our number one priority, and that’s from like an ethical, moral and impact perspective, what we wanna do, but also from a business perspective, we win when every student comes on and we become their trusted partner and they have the best possible experience as well.

[00:12:50] Eric: Yeah. If a university’s paying, let’s say. Obviously not just one, many, many universities paying, someone’s paying more, someone’s paying less. Are you able to remove the [00:13:00] bias that might exist inside of that platform to say, well, yeah, Santa Clara’s paying a lot of money, so therefore they’re gonna show up as more relevant to your students.

[00:13:07] Eric: I’m assuming that’s obviously been thought through and you, you guys, but like for people to know that, I think that’s a big deal.

[00:13:13] Senan: Yeah, no, definitely. And it’s, yeah, kind of going back to my point about how much we, we care about the student success, it’s really just all about what’s the best right fit for you.

[00:13:23] Senan: And Santa Clara can, like, if they pay us, they’ll get exposure vis-a-vis like having a virtual event or being able to message students who were relevant to them and things like that. Like students opt into that kind of communication, which is, yeah, from a privacy perspective exactly as college board or common app and these other applications function, it’s in line and even actually maybe better in class as compared to them, but.

[00:13:50] Senan: Yeah, those colleges basically get a chance to reach out to students who are directly interested in them and they get a chance to host events and things like that. But if we have, like we, for example, one of our tools, we have like [00:14:00] an AI recommendation quiz. Like it’s never gonna be the case where if somebody’s not a good fit for, so Clara University, or let’s say collegial University, that we’re gonna say that, oh, you should definitely apply to University one, because that ruins the student experience, right?

[00:14:15] Senan: In the short, medium, and long term. And two, the college, if we send them a bunch of students. Churn after one year, that’s also not great for them. Right? So it’s not good for the students, it’s not good for the colleges. And that’s why, part of the reason why we’re really focused on the great student outcomes.

[00:14:32] Senan: Yeah,

[00:14:33] Eric: of course. And if it becomes obvious that there’s a bias, then it won’t work anymore and the business won’t work. So it’s like, it’s like always doing the right thing. Always works. The college app process like I talked to you about before, three kids, two of ’em, one’s in college, one’s on their way to college and, and going through it, and both different kids and both have different interests of what they wanna do.

[00:14:50] Eric: It’s a fascinating experience, right? If you don’t have the experience with it, it’s so hard. And I’ve talked to plenty of parents and kids, and then you see the stress and you see the anxiety, [00:15:00] and then you see. Society talking to you and what you have to do, and this is the direction and why aren’t you whatever, and what’d you get on your scores and which, how many aps did you take?

[15:00–20:00]
The Prestige Trap + Real Student Needs
Mental health pressures, elite school fixation, and value vs. brand

[00:15:08] Eric: And, and how are you gonna make your application look? So like the best? And then like, what did you do? Right? So it’s, I feel for a lot of parents and kids, because I’m like, if they don’t know, even know where to go, how would they manage this entire process? And then you go show up on some of these campuses and you see the mental and the mental health crisis is real right now, right?

[00:15:26] Eric: There’s a loneliness epidemic, right? There’s all these things going on. What are you seeing with this whole college application process? Like you just talked about the different platforms that exist out there. Like where are we going with this? Is this just gonna continue down this path, or is this why you’re in existence today to like try to help people make sense of what’s going on because it’s a mess.

[00:15:47] Senan: Yeah, so it’s actually very interesting on many levels. So the first thing I’d say is actually they’re, let’s just classify them into two worlds, right? So I was very [00:16:00] much part of the world that you were describing, right? Where it’s like, how do I make the best possible application? How do I get into the best possible top 100 school?

[00:16:08] Senan: All of that stress, and definitely even as a founder who’s been close to my company, has been close to bankruptcy and things like that, which maybe we can get into. But yeah, it’s college apps was still probably one of the most stressful times in my life, which is kind of hilarious to think about.

[00:16:24] Senan: Hilarious and sad maybe. Yeah. So that’s one segment of right, where it’s like all of these students are targeting the top a hundred schools and they’re coming from more affluent families, and it’s kind of like this rat race almost, where it’s exactly what you said, super competitive, like in the Bay Area.

[00:16:40] Senan: It’s probably, I don’t wanna say if I had to, yes, it’s probably the most competitive in the world. Like I see ninth graders, right? First year of high school and they’ve got internships and the kid is coming to me and talking about. Starting a startup, which is great, right? But I don’t know how much they feel that their environment is [00:17:00] forcing them to do that.

[00:17:00] Senan: Right. Versus like when I was in ninth grade, like I barely knew that what college was, right. I was like, oh, that’s the thing that people go to and things like that. But I see it as just getting more and more competitive. For sure. And there’s also a different world, right? Where the majority of people actually belong, which is like, do I go to college or not?

[00:17:21] Senan: Right? And that’s maybe like, should I go to my community college? Do I go to my local state school? Maybe I go to my state flagship, right? If I’m very smart or feeling very adventurous, or maybe I go to a trade school or maybe I don’t go to college, and this is like a world where the majority of students are kind of operating in, and both of these worlds are really in for an upheaval, right?

[00:17:46] Senan: Because the costs are going up. You know, there’s demographic cliffs that are taking place. There are like less people who are entering the college going time. And schools like four year institutions are in particular are really struggling because [00:18:00] many of them have to redefine themselves. Right? How do I def like justify an $80,000 price tag when my average, you know, graduation alumni salary is 50 K.

[00:18:11] Senan: Right? And it’s actually a complete separate story that most people don’t actually pay the sticker price, but. College are really in for that, for that upheaval. And to your question about how we see that path of like all of that uncertainty, like I think that’s really where we’re trying to play as hopefully a trusted partner where we can help figure out what that right next best step is for you.

[00:18:37] Senan: ’cause there’s so many students, like I was just talking to, I won’t take his name, but somebody who’s like a very average student and from a very wealthy family, and it’s like. They’re being forced into kind of this, everybody goes to college in that high school, right? Then there might be other people who are very bright people, but nobody goes to college in that high school, right?

[00:18:57] Senan: Or very few people go to college and they’re first gen student. So [00:19:00] it’s like, how can we kind of optimize outcomes? And I think that’s kind of where collegial comes in because it’s like, Hey, let me dynamically work with you. So that we can figure out what the next right best step is for you, whether that’s a four year college, whether that’s a two year college, whether that’s a trade school, whether that’s a coding bootcamp, right?

[00:19:19] Senan: Whatever that next right best step is for you. Let me show you what it might look like, what your life after that might look like, where you might go and like achieve that, and then how you might pay for it, and then how you might qualify yourself to get into that school. That’s really where we’re playing right now and hopefully that.

[00:19:39] Senan: Can alleviate some of the stress, but I think a lot of the stress from that kind of top hundred school version is just this, this kind of prestige race and yeah, so society kind of pressuring folks, I think it’s, it’s gonna be very tough to alleviate pressure there, but maybe as more folks from that segment choose not to go to college, do other things, society [00:20:00] might de-stigmatize that.

[20:00–25:00]
Stanford, Strategy, and The ROI of Education
Senan’s personal experience and universities choosing between defense and offense

[00:20:02] Senan: Yeah, you hear

[00:20:03] Eric: more people talking about it now. I mean, I’m sure you’ve heard like the All In podcast and Shamma gets on there and he starts talking about at a time when he wants one of his kids to go to the prestigious, the Ivys, the whatever, and then the kid shows up one day and says, I want to go to SEC school.

[00:20:16] Eric: And then early on he would’ve been like freaking out. He was like, you’re not going to Alabama or Mississippi. Now. He is like, no, I actually think that’s the right decision for him. There’s a lot baked in there, right? They get into the political side of stuff and we don’t have to go down that path right now.

[00:20:26] Eric: But that is changing. Like you see the numbers of the students coming down here. So living in Charlotte, North Carolina and you know, you’re an a CC in Southeastern conference country that the numbers to go to school at South Carolina, at Georgia, the applications are through the roof, right? And they’re building great programs there where like 20 years ago.

[00:20:48] Eric: That wasn’t like you would just send in your application and when do you start? Like when’s, when do I show up for my first day of school type of thing. And it’s not the case anymore. You went to Stanford, right? And you just graduated, which is [00:21:00] wild. So like, you’re already like doing amazing things. So that’s awesome.

[00:21:03] Eric: Thank you. So you’re, but you’re very close to it. Like you said, it wasn’t that long ago you were living in this world and like, wow, that was crazy. That was my most stressful time of my life. Now that you’ve gone through that and you’re kind of like sitting back laughing at, I’m sure Stanford did a lot of great things for you.

[00:21:16] Eric: So it’s not that these universities are all bad, right? It’s just that prestige thing is real, and Stanford is one of those schools that’s in that world of prestige. Like how do you look at that knowing what you just experienced? And you’re probably still gaining a lot from that world like. Where does that come to mind?

[00:21:34] Eric: Because you’re also, I could hear you and when you say it, it sounds very real of like you’re seeing a student and you’re not judging them to say if they want to go to a two year trade school or not go to college. Like we just had someone else on the podcast and Ankit was talking about, he was a former Google employees partners, a former Apple employee.

[00:21:49] Eric: He’s like, I could care less what you went to college. Show me what you’ve built type of thing. Anyway, saying all that, like what comes to mind for you as it relates to like the world you were just in.

[00:21:58] Senan: Yeah. It’s interesting, I think. [00:22:00] Universities are being more and more challenged on the product, right? And it’s a very competitive time, right, to say it lightly.

[00:22:08] Senan: And people have to define for themselves, is my product competitive? Am I competitive on price program campus? What can I do to justify why I should exist in a way that previously there has not been as much pressure and we’re seeing enrollment leaders being extremely, extremely forward thinking. As well as extremely defensive.

[00:22:31] Senan: Right. And I think the second you start playing defense is when you start getting stuck in the tar pit. And then once you’re in the tar pit of, okay, I’m like in a budget deficit and I’m gonna cut spending and then I’m gonna get more deficit and cut more spending, I think that’s a really a downward spiral that’s very difficult to get out of versus.

[00:22:52] Senan: On the other side, more forward thinking, enrollment leaders are willing to engage with different solutions, think about repositioning their brand, [00:23:00] and kind of take these more brave steps to redefine themselves. Really like think about outreach differently, think about programs and product differently to really justify why they should exist.

[00:23:14] Senan: And then we see a lot of thriving there also. Right? So I speak to. In a month, I’ve probably speak to like 40, 45 different colleges on average. So I’m speaking to a lot of different colleges and it’s, yeah, I’m really on the pulse of what’s going on, and I’m really seeing this dichotomy of people who are kind of turling up and people who are, okay, we have X, Y, Z amount of time to achieve X, Y, Z.

[00:23:40] Senan: Who are the people that can help me on this journey and how can I reposition my brand to reach the right students? And. Offer them a convincing product. Right. And that’s kind of the unfortunate reality of, of what’s going on in higher ed. That’s one piece. And then kind of to your thought about prestige and signal.

[00:23:59] Senan: [00:24:00] I think that the real, like the old concept of education that came from the Romans and then the Middle East and then Europe and all of this, like the old like tradition of education. Is actually very different from it is what it is now, right? ’cause if it’s like, what’s like the degree that I can get that gets me the highest paying job, that’s not really what the old concept of education was.

[00:24:26] Senan: Where it was like, okay, wealthy people come and they study philosophy or they study theology or like English language and things like that. And it’s kind of like what you might associate Oxford with in these universities. And there’s not really much linkage between job prospect and. Education and like higher education in particular, but that’s because those people are, you know, wealthy aristocrats and things like that.

[00:24:48] Senan: Anyways, so it’s kind of interesting that there are these universities that have that prestige factor and it’s like maybe they do have really strong engineering programs and things like that, but there are a lot of [00:25:00] universities also who just, you know, appeal to wealthy folks and they can go there and study a degree that maybe isn’t linked to some financial outcome as much.

[25:00–30:00]
What Will College Look Like in 2030?
Hybrid, online, and student-first education models

[00:25:09] Senan: It’s just for that older concept of education. But of course that’s not for the broader public where it’s like, okay, I need to get a degree and I need to, if I’m investing a hundred thousand dollars, I need to be able to have that ROI on it. So that’s kind of a different concept to what the older concept of education that’s kind of more linked to that prestige where you see a lot of, you know, wealthy folks coming in and studying those types of other degrees, which also I have, you know, no disrespect for like if you can do it.

[00:25:35] Senan: Definitely. That sounds like a lot of fun. Yeah.

[00:25:38] Eric: You know what’s weird is like you go social media, right? And everyone’s like, don’t go to college or go to college. Like, let’s polarize it somehow. And, and that’s, let’s argue about it. Let’s, you’re right, I’m wrong, right? Actually, I’d be right. You’d be wrong.

[00:25:48] Eric: Yeah. But like in that scenario. It’s actually getting real with yourself and using the tools and using the people like yourself and your tool to say, [00:26:00] Hmm, what’s best for me? And getting real with that as opposed to not what’s best for my classmates and for their parents and for the high school that I go to.

[00:26:08] Eric: How do I get real with myself? Which is a mindset thing, right? Like, and then it’s using the tools and leaning on your trusted advisors, just like you would do in anything in life. There is no one answer. So you’re not gonna say, yeah, I think Stanford’s a joke. Don’t go to Stanford. They’re just gonna take your money and make it at the other end.

[00:26:23] Eric: You might be like, Stanford’s amazing if you want to do this, right? So, and that goes for all like directions that you could possibly go with this. It’s not some one size fits all, and I can hear that coming from you. And then it makes me think like, okay, this is 2025. Where is college in 2030? Like that’s five years from now, and I don’t think we all know right.

[00:26:44] Eric: What’s gonna happen, like where AI’s going? Like it’s funny, I saw Ohio State University, one of the largest universities in the country is came out, their president came out and said, we’re gonna be, I think it’s ai, fluent AI fluency, and they’re gonna teach a class on it. Right? All this kind of stuff. So on surface it’s like, okay, cool.[00:27:00]

[00:27:00] Eric: A university’s gonna go out there and we’re gonna teach. Artificial intelligence, these kids like they’re gonna understand it, they’re gonna be able to use it. Maybe even the classrooms, you go to Reddit threads, of which there’s a lot ’cause it’s such a large university and they’re like, can you refund my money then since AI’s gonna be doing this teaching and the university’s not gonna be doing it.

[00:27:16] Eric: Right. So it, it plays on the other side and it’s kind of not been a fallout from it, but a little bit, right. At least on the Reddit boards. So I just don’t know what happens from here today, 25 to, let’s say, what does college look like in 2030? I dunno if you have an answer on it, but I’m sure you have like.

[00:27:32] Eric: Talking points or thoughts on it, right?

[00:27:34] Senan: Yeah, I definitely think in terms of AI fluency and like running away from ai, like I talk to people who are super interested. Like there was one enrollment officer I spoke to in Austin, actually St. Edwards in university, I think he wouldn’t mind me mentioning, but he was like, oh, I use Gemini in my workflow and I encourage my team to use it.

[00:27:53] Senan: And they’re like very into it. And I know other folks like someone in. Aurora University, for example, [00:28:00] they have like a AI policy, and then other folks I speak to are like, oh, I’m unsure about how we’re gonna engage with the ai, and they’re kind of taking that approach. But in terms of where college is in 2030, I think there’s kind of three main strands.

[00:28:16] Senan: And this is something I’ve thought about. It’s like the traditional college, right? And it’s like the traditional college that’s able to become more efficient and pivot. They still have that core in-person experience that’s, you know, very valuable for folks. And it’s the ones, like you mentioned, maybe some SE schools, but I think hopefully the majority of colleges that are gonna survive this tumultuous time and be able to offer like a strong brand presence, a strong product to their students, then they’re like the online schools.

[00:28:46] Senan: So that’s like WGU and there are a few others that. Have these really strong online programs that are really great for adult learners and things like that. And then there there’s maybe something completely [00:29:00] different. So I think it’s called Outsmart College. So it’s the ex CPO of of Duolingo, and he’s essentially made this kind of Duolingo style bite-size clips where people can swipe and like kind of consume college level courses and get credits in a bite-sized way, like five minutes at a time, 10 minutes at a time.

[00:29:21] Senan: So that’s kind of interesting, like those completely new pathways. And then I think community colleges are also emerging as a real winner, like trade schools. So I think for four year you kind of have these three brands where it’s like the traditional one that’s adapted, the online one that’s, you know, becoming more popular.

[00:29:38] Senan: Maybe something completely different where you have like core trainings. Maybe. Maybe companies offer like direct trainings directly, like okay, after high school. Do this like two, three year program and then you can get a job that’s like six figures or something like that. And then there’s the the traditional community colleges and trade schools, which I think are poised to do really well as well off [00:30:00] this windfall.

[30:00–35:00]
College Costs, Loans, and Financial Reality
Rising tuition, net revenue confusion, and how this affects student decisions

[00:30:00] Senan: That’s kind of how I would lay out the ecosystem right now.

[00:30:04] Eric: Yeah. Your mindset when it comes to this is unique. Like I said before, I talk to so many people and they have this. Specific, this is where it’s going. Right? And you’re in the industry and you’re trying to help out a wide array of students, right?

[00:30:16] Eric: And not everyone’s cut out. Not even cut out. I shouldn’t say that. They’re not, you don’t have to be a founder of a tech startup company, right? Like there’s so many different things that you can do in this world. And I think what get cut up in like, oh, this, or wealth or like, what’s important to you in, in going back down to that.

[00:30:32] Eric: That point of it, and you’re watching these universities at play, like I’ve watched Arizona State who has their in-person thing, right? They’re in Tempe, Arizona. It’s a great experience. They built the online program, and so you see they’re, they’re going out there and they’re trying to educate the masses on their online, which is different.

[00:30:47] Eric: Very different than being on campus in Tempe University. Right? And they’re building other campuses in other places, and they’re becoming very large. And their technology, right? Number one in innovation and like some of the students laugh at it, but then when you get into the system and see it, [00:31:00] you’re like, actually they’re, they’re not running off of legacy systems.

[00:31:03] Eric: They’re actually running off a system that looks like it was actually built in 2025, not in 1990. And you’re like, okay, well there’s something there to it, right? Like you can actually get their curriculum, even though you might not have direct access to the advisor every day there’s something with the technology that you see, you’re like.

[00:31:18] Eric: They’re not doing that at most universities. Their technology’s so off, right. So I think that school’s been around for a long time, so they can run a hybrid approach and do it all as opposed to other universities who are locking the doors. We’re not letting you in unless you’re, you have this thing going for you and you’ve traveled abroad and you have six different majors.

[00:31:36] Eric: And, and, and that’s not bad either, right? But it’s, there’s just a lot of options out there. And we need to help students, families, universities, high schools, counselors, whoever. Understand what all is out there. There’s another part about college that’s frustrating, which is the cost of college. It’s out of control, right?

[00:31:55] Eric: And the loan situation is out of control. And it’s hard to [00:32:00] teach a 17 or 18-year-old, like what does that look like in four years, in 20 years, right? And a lot of times these people will marry, one goes to college, they don’t have a loan. Then they marry someone, they do have a loan and they’re paying off a $200,000 loan.

[00:32:13] Eric: They’re like, wait a second. That’s on my books now. Right. So that’s a real thing as it comes to it. But I’ve heard you talk about where like, and you just said it before, like these universities are spending, spending $3,000 per student on the marketing. Then there’s all sorts of other costs and they gotta keep up with it.

[00:32:28] Eric: So. You’re gonna go visit the University of Kentucky and you’re also gonna go visit the University of Alabama. Like who’s got the better gym? Who’s got the better dorms? Who’s got the better food? Like all this stuff costs a lot of money. And I think you said, and you can teach us on this, like the colleges aren’t making a lot more money today.

[00:32:44] Eric: I think they’re like, there’s some universities like at Harvard or Ohio State that have huge endowments. Right? But that’s different. Help us understand like. Are the universities not making as much, and do they have to raise the cost because they have no other choice to do it? Like why are we in a situation that we’re in [00:33:00] where the money’s not the same as it was 10, 20, 50 years?

[00:33:04] Eric: Definitely wasn’t 50 years ago it was like $300 per semester. But you see what I’m getting at when it comes to the money. Are the universities still making a lot of money even though I’ll stop there. You get what I’m saying?

[00:33:15] Senan: Yeah, of course. So I think that. There was an interesting article that I was reading the other day that was showing how the average tuition price has gone up, but so has the average discount rate quite a lot, and essentially what that results in is net money that colleges are taking home as kind of more or less remains stagnant when you’re accounting for inflation and these types of things.

[00:33:39] Senan: So an average discount rate, like if a college on a sticker price costs $80,000, the average discount rate would be. 50% or something akin to that. So we’re really seeing those kind of high discount rates where people are, and that’s kind of something colleges do to recruit students and make the students also feel valued.

[00:33:59] Senan: Where, [00:34:00] yeah, like maybe the sticker price is 80,000, but okay, Eric, we’re gonna give you a presidential scholarship and you get $20,000 off a year and things like that. But I think cost is definitely something that colleges really have to reconcile with. Like one, they do have their existing costs. Like it’s not easy to pay for someone’s room and board for four years, but also understanding like how much do classes cost and how much do professor’s times cost and things like that.

[00:34:25] Senan: And then we’re seeing like a lot more hybrid approaches, a lot more innovative approaches, but also perhaps cutting down on the amount of bureaucracy. And maybe that’s something that AI can help with a lot. And I know I’m seeing a lot of startups in that space. So I think it’s a lot of how much can colleges.

[00:34:44] Senan: Reconcile all the different things that are going on within their own house. And then at the same time, offer a compelling product to different students, to different segments. Understand why people are paying, how much they’re willing to pay, how much they should pay, and, and just thinking about that in, in a dynamic [00:35:00] way.

[35:00–40:00]
Jobs, Curriculum, and the AI Knowledge Gap
What students are being taught vs. what the world needs

[00:35:00] Eric: So the colleges, while they’re not making as much as we might think, like the colleges keep raising it and the families just keep paying it. Right, but what you’re saying is it’s not like the college is just raking in cash, but what they could be doing is maybe lowering their costs on the front end in some other ways that would allow them to make more money that they obviously need to make some money and then in turn lower the costs back to, to the families.

[00:35:28] Eric: That, right.

[00:35:29] Senan: It’s all linked to career readiness. Right? Because we’re in a place where that you go to college to get a good job, right? That’s the vast majority of people, right. And if you can’t guarantee that good outcome, right? Then it’s like how can you justify the cost, right? So I think having that really strong pipeline, and that’s why things like AI fluency and things like that are super important because it’s like, okay, do you have places where people can learn the most UpToDate things in a world that is changing so rapidly, where [00:36:00] frankly in two, three years, traditional computer science programs.

[00:36:04] Senan: Frankly, even now, like I have friends who’ve studied at Stanford, done, you know, master’s in computer science from, you know, the best computer science school and they’re struggling to get employed, right? So imagine for the rest of the world who has wants to study computer science and it’s like these are traditionally one of the programs with the highest ROI, right?

[00:36:21] Senan: And this is something that’s rapidly changing. And now we’re gonna see entry level law positions and accounting positions and all of these entry level white collar jobs really shifting. And it’s like, these are the traditional reasons why people went to university. Right. So this is also kind of part of that overall market dynamic that’s really affecting the way students are thinking about college and how colleges should be thinking about it as well.

[00:36:47] Eric: Yeah. The AI fluency, and I could argue that, do I wanna learn if I’m a student or if I’m a parent, who’s the student’s going to school? Do I want my student learning or this? Learning from the [00:37:00] university about how to use ai or do I want them learning from you or me or someone else? Like, does the university even know how to teach this because it’s so new and, okay, cool, we’re going af and they should, so they’re gonna have to hire for that though, because if, if these professors aren’t ready for it.

[00:37:18] Eric: Well, just because you were given, it’s like you said, soccer before. So just because the person’s a history teacher. And they watched a soccer game the other day, it doesn’t mean they should be your soccer coach, right? But at the university or at the school, we need someone to teach soccer. So they’re gonna be the coach, right?

[00:37:32] Eric: Just because you’re there and you watch some videos about AI and you like, it doesn’t mean you should be teaching the student how to use ai. Like I’d rather find someone who actually knows how to use it or get on YouTube, right? And you can learn how to use it or open up chat BT and Gemini and Grok and whatever, and just start messing with it again.

[00:37:50] Eric: You need guidance and mentorship and all that. Is it the university’s best job for that? Like it always goes back to, [00:38:00] shouldn’t they be teaching money in schools? Right? Shouldn’t they be talking about finance in schools? Yes. But at the same time, like you can also learn finance without it. Like go read about Warren Buffett, go watch some videos, listen to podcasts, read all their books, talk to some mentors, go intern.

[00:38:13] Eric: Like that kind of thing. Is it the school’s job? Not even job is it? Do we want our students learning AI from people that maybe don’t even have that expertise in doing that? That’s concerning because like you said, when they graduate in 20 30, 20 40 and so on, maybe they don’t even have jobs. Like you said, the job market for computer science degree people like, okay, maybe it doesn’t exist anymore.

[00:38:33] Eric: Yeah,

[00:38:34] Senan: I think it’s definitely a great point of like, who’s the right person to teach ai, and I think that’s really interesting where it’s not necessarily, doesn’t necessarily have to be in a school environment. Historically it’s, it’s very interesting, even at a school like Stanford where there’s such a huge prestige factor.

[00:38:49] Senan: So many of my friends who wanted to go into finance, something I also thought about for a while, that’s not something that’s really taught much in school, and it’s a lot of self-study that those kids are doing outside of [00:39:00] school. Right? There are courses, like I know there’s one person we’re talking to, potentially hiring, she’s studying sales at Indiana University and a lot of like a school like Stanford doesn’t even offer sales, right?

[00:39:10] Senan: Yeah. It’s like such necessary thing. It’s like there’s a disconnect between. What’s wanted, what’s needed and what’s offered. And then also is that institution even the best place to teach it? And versus like a sales crash course, right? But then it’s also the signaling, like would person hire someone based on just the fact that they’ve done a crash course or the fact that they have some experience, like experience without the degree.

[00:39:34] Senan: Like I think the degree gives you a level of signal that’s different. And until we start perceiving it differently as a society where it’s like. Okay, this person doesn’t have a bachelor’s degree, but they know how to sell really well. Okay? Are they like, am I just gonna hire this 18 or 19-year-old now instead of the 21 or 22-year-old?

[00:39:53] Senan: But maybe the salary expectations are different. It becomes this weird dichotomy. But if someone has, let’s say, three or four years of work [00:40:00] experience that’s relevant instead of college, that person is probably worth more than someone who went to college. But again, it’s also. So much of work is interpersonal relationships and things like that, that it becomes, becomes really interesting.

[40:00–45:00]
College Closures and Disruption Opportunities
Shifting institutions, closures, and room for new entrants

[00:40:15] Senan: And I think that as people really think about these questions and as they’re pushed to the forefront, we’ll see. Yeah. I think a change in the number of colleges, because it’s also fascinating, the United States has nearly 4,000 higher education institutions. Someone like the United Kingdom, the UK has, I believe the number is just under 200.

[00:40:36] Senan: Wow. So. Yeah, you can see the, the difference here. Does every student need to go to college? Is that the right step? Do we need so many institutions? And I think that that question is really, it’s a scary one, but it’s It’s the one that’s on everybody’s minds.

[00:40:50] Eric: Yeah, it is. I know of schools that have been shut down, right?

[00:40:53] Eric: They had to raise, there’s a school here, limestone University. It’s in the Gaffney, South Carolina. So it’s like a couple hours away from here. There’s [00:41:00] outlet malls there. Like that’s why you know it well, there’s limestone. It had limestone. University had been there over a hundred plus years. They had to raise $6 million and they raised $2 million and they had just closed the school.

[00:41:11] Eric: So they graduated their final class, I think it was 1600 kids, 900 of them were student athletes and they were all out of a university. So this has been happening more and more. And you don’t exactly know why that is. And they probably didn’t have the money in reserves. They didn’t have the endowment, whatever.

[00:41:26] Eric: That’s a challenge. And those kids gotta go transfer. And so some of these bigger schools can probably take ’em on and they’ll help ’em out, but So you think there could be a situation to where. Like in business where they all are becoming part of the, the larger state, like that school could have been as a private school I think, I don’t know, but become part of the larger state university where they have like add another campus type of thing or they’re gonna have to do something and consolidate like we see in business.

[00:41:51] Eric: Yeah,

[00:41:51] Senan: we’re seeing a lot of amalgamations closing down. Like the stat was in 20 24, 1 college per month has been closing down on average. So [00:42:00] I think that number is increasing, if anything. I know there was Penn West University that’s now like three campuses, which were three separate entities before, and now it’s like if a professor teaches one class somewhere that that same class is being broadcasted to the other two campuses at the same time and they’re kind of taking on these innovative methods.

[00:42:19] Senan: Yeah, but it’s okay. How can I convince people in my own backyard to attend? And then why would someone from out of state wanna attend this university as well and just do. Just think about that. I think it’s all about positioning all about brand and so much of this is yeah, signaling. That’s why we have these high prices, right?

[00:42:38] Senan: That’s why it costs 80 grand on paper. It’s because then I can say that this is something that’s really valuable, but I think people are wisening up and they’re saying that, okay, show me what’s the average alumni starting salary, right? Right. Why would I pay 300 grand for university if I’m gonna come out and make 60 grand a year?

[00:42:54] Senan: It just doesn’t make sense.

[00:42:55] Eric: Yeah. Yeah. That’s wild. It’s almost like, it’s like our conversation [00:43:00] today. You know, we had our first connection. It was definitely laggy and like there’s all sorts of stuff and then you know, you have your brother traveling back overseas, right? There’s a lot. It’s real life happening.

[00:43:08] Eric: Technology’s happening and then our lead IT project manager, like something happens and people are like, oh my God, it’s technology. Like what’s going on? And he is like, it’s technology. Go figure. Like sometimes you just can’t explain it, pick up the pieces and move on. My point there is that this is messy, right?

[00:43:23] Eric: Like I feel like there’s come, this thing with college is. You pick a college based on where you want to be, right? Which is, there’s a lot of proof in that and that you’re supposed to go down the set path for you and then when you go down the set path for you, everything’s gonna work out. You take your loan, you go to school, you meet a, your potential spouse, right?

[00:43:42] Eric: You go to football games and then you graduate, you get the job, and then you get the house and then blah, blah, blah. And all that stuff’s been disrupted. And instead, it’s more of like, what’s interesting to you? Where do you wanna play for a little while? It’s messy. It’s just life and shit’s happening and I don’t know what to [00:44:00] make of it, but to like go down and like, here’s exactly how it’s gonna, like, I just talked to someone recently who was like going to do something else and everything changed past and now he’s an attorney doing offshore trust, right?

[00:44:12] Eric: Like, he’s like, I don’t even know how I got here. And things happened along the way where you have even at a professor at school says, don’t do that. I don’t know. I don’t know what that all means, but picking this thing that you have to go down some certain path for college and that’s gonna ultimately lead you to this destination that like, I don’t know, in five years, we don’t even know what the destinations are gonna look like, let alone 20 years from now.

[00:44:32] Eric: Right. Everything’s changing right before our eyes. You know, a year ago AI was here, but it looked very different. This conversation’s gonna come out and probably a few months after that chat, PT Five’s gonna come out. Who knows what that’s gonna do. Right. So, I don’t know. I’m sure you have thoughts on all of where I’m going.

[00:44:47] Senan: Yeah, no, I think it’s so different and I’m glad we’re having this conversation because it, it’s also given me an awesome opportunity to think about this and I think it’s so much about the people that you meet and influences on your life. [00:45:00] Like, I just think back to when I began high school, I was actually living in, in Europe and we had moved back to, yeah, from my, from my father’s work, and we had moved back to Pakistan.

[45:00–End]
Mentorship, Authenticity, and What’s Next
AI + human mentorship, counselor shortages, and how to support students better

[00:45:11] Senan: I was thinking like what subjects I should take in high school and it’s very like a British system where you take certain subjects and it’s like not a lot of flexibility. And I decided not to take like sciences, right? So in high school I didn’t study chemistry, physics, or biology. Right? Like formally.

[00:45:29] Senan: And I just think how different my life could have looked if I decided to study those things. But it was just literally some, like a few people advised my parents and myself that, oh, it’s not a good idea to take those if I’m coming from. You know, a Western education system and that just influences the trajectory.

[00:45:45] Senan: Or even for myself, like meeting someone who was able to, who had got into a really good school, who was able to mentor me like in my life. And it’s like these pivotal moments that really express everything. And I’m now my, like my head is turning [00:46:00] because one thing we’re always thinking about in GIO is like, okay, the AI is great for personalization, but where can there be humans also in the loop?

[00:46:09] Senan: And I think that’s really something fascinating where it’s like, okay, as you navigate K Collegio, can you meet other people who are also on similar journeys and share similar ideas? And I think that could be something that’s really interesting to elevate the human experience. But yeah, I agree with you.

[00:46:23] Senan: It’s very messy and that’s kind of the beauty of AI is like the ability to personalize for each individual person. So yeah, I’m definitely excited to see where it goes and kind of being able to build at the precipice of ai. ’cause we’re building into a system that we hope is gonna get better, right? Yeah.

[00:46:39] Senan: So it’s like, okay, at chat GBT four, it’s functioning at a certain level, but at five it’s gonna be even better at six, it’s gonna be even better in of itself is just gonna get better as time goes on. So yeah, that’s gonna be exciting to see.

[00:46:50] E