LeNoble has prided itself, since generation #1, that because it is hard to do, it has to get done. Then mastered the how…

Dave Young:

Welcome to the Empire Builders Podcast, teaching business owners the not-so-secret techniques that took famous businesses from mom and pop to major brands. Stephen Simple is a marketing consultant, story collector and storyteller. I’m Stephen’s sidekick and business partner, Dave Young. Before we get into today’s episode, a word from our sponsor, which is, well, it’s us, but we’re highlighting ads we’ve written and produced for our clients. So here’s one of those.

[Tapper’s Jewelers Ad]

Rick:

Told you, Brian.

Brian:

Told me what?

Rick:

This is part two of last week’s episode.

Brian:

Oh, yeah. And it was getting good.

Rick:

If you missed it, go back and listen to part one first. Take it away, fellas.

Stephen Semple:

There’s got to be some really interesting, unique challenges to delivering your products and whatnot in Manhattan.

Dan LeNoble:

Yeah, Manhattan, it’s just tough dealing with the congestion, the amount of people and everything like that. It is not an easy place to do it. If it was easy, everyone would do it. But what we’ve spent a lot of time and resources doing are hiring the right people to do the job. And Ben does a lot of our hiring as well as a few other key people in our organization and finding people that want to do it the right way, don’t want to cut corners, don’t want to, I’m going to park the truck on the corner here and they can come find me. Getting good drivers, good yard guys, that’s the world of difference. It’s simple to say no, but how do we get to yes.

Stephen Semple:

That’s interesting.

Dan LeNoble:

And getting those key people has really been, I think that’s what transforms us. I think our people are our single greatest asset that we have. Everyone around us it makes our life that much easier because of their skill and professionalism.

Jessica LeNoble:

Our dispatch team is incredible when it comes to navigating what truck goes where if there was a mistake, how to fix it. And there’s never… I shouldn’t say never, but there’s not a blame game. If I go downstairs and I’m like, “Hey, this happened.” The first thing out of the dispatcher’s mouth is, “All right, what do we have to do to fix it? How do we get this done so that way they’re happy?”

Stephen Semple:

Well, in this dispatch thing, I just want to give some background that people may not realize is in the construction space, in the home services space, I have lots of clients who are in the suburbs of a city, whether it’s Philadelphia or Toronto or Vancouver or Los Angeles, who will say, “Yeah, we do not go into the downtown core because it’s a pain in the neck. It’s too hard. It’s too difficult. There’s all these challenges.” I think both Jessica and Dan, you guys hit the nail in the head. What you’re recognizing is one of your competitive advantages is dispatch. And also people getting that parking around the corner and they’ll find us ain’t good enough. You’ve got, yes, the city’s challenging and you just have to overcome that challenge.

Jessica LeNoble:

We’ve never been outside of the city, so this is what we know.

Stephen Semple:

Right. Right.

Dan LeNoble:

I think also one of the things that is giving them the tools to use, and what I mean the tools in this case is just some of the logistics with trucks. It’s easier to just have these massive tractor trailers that you can load up with however many stops and it just goes on its run. But when you’re dealing with these narrow city streets and you have to make these sometimes, not huge deliveries, having a smaller truck that’s nimble and can actually maneuver gives you a little advantage.

So for a company our size, we’re operating 42 vehicles that range anywhere from little box trucks up to those big trailers and everything in between. So if you need two units of plywood into the city and you’re on a difficult street, we have an 18-foot flatbed that makes it much easier to maneuver than a 53-foot tractor trailer. And what Jess was talking about with the dispatch team is they understand those needs. They have the tools to do the job. We’re just there to support them, give them the tools they need to make the job easier.

Stephen Semple:

You’re like right in Manhattan, are you not?

Ben Bernstein:

We’re one mile outside of New York City in Long Island City, Queens.

Stephen Semple:

Oh, you’re in Long Island City, okay.

Ben Bernstein:

Yeah.

Stephen Semple:

But the fact that your history is New York City, and you guys really understand that, the fact that New York City is big, lots of opportunity, but all of these massive challenges that come with it that you guys know, right, from a DNA level because that’s the history of this business, how much do you think that that is your competitive advantage?

Dan LeNoble:

It’s definitely a huge advantage. Having just grown up in it. It’s what’s ingrained in us.

Stephen Semple:

Right.

Dan LeNoble:

And those challenges with the difficulty of just the logistics of New York City, we understand that well, how can we take those particular set of skills and bring that into other markets where no one else is kind of doing those things? What you were touching on with some of your other customers is we don’t go into the city, it’s too hard. They have a particular way they run their trucks and do everything, we do as well but it’s different. And we like to think that our service allows us to go into these other industries that haven’t been as accustomed to the high quality service that we provide, and that gives us that competitive advantage as well. So it’s taking that DNA of being in the city, being in that rough grind, and how can we take that and go into other sectors where people actually want that kind of service but aren’t accustomed to it from who’s currently servicing those markets.

Stephen Semple:

Right. So when you’re looking at other sectors, so going back to what Ben was saying, where there was a point where you knew you needed to diversify. Part of that diversification question wasn’t just like, oh, I need other services, but what are other services where this stuff that we figured out around the logistics and dispatch and size of truck and getting around and whatnot, what are other ones where that’s a competitive advantage that we can bring is probably kind of how you looked at it? Is that what I’m hearing?

Dan LeNoble:

Kind of. Yeah.

Ben Bernstein:

Yeah. Just to touch on that, I think that even though we’re in Long Island City because of how we are set up operationally, we deliver all the way up to Connecticut, Upstate New York, Eastern PA, Southern Jersey, and all the way out to the Hamptons every single day. And I would argue that we can do that at a more efficient clip sometimes than some of our competitors who are even closer because we’ve set ourselves up, we know what it takes to make these difficult deliveries around the city, and we take that same mindset and we’re able to efficiently get material even farther out, outside of our range.

Jessica LeNoble:

And I think there’s also that mentality of we just have to do it. It’s not, “Oh, this is a hard street to get down. Oh, we don’t want to go into the city. Our customer needs this and we’re going to get it to them.” Because one thing about us is, going back to my grandfather when it comes to one of his biggest actresses was loyalty, a customer calls and it’s not just a voice on the other line. A customer still calls Ben, still calls Dan, even though they’re running the business and we answer and we know them by first name. We know what they need. We know that if they say a certain item that they didn’t really mean that item. Oh, did you mean this? Oh, absolutely. So we want to get our people, not just customers, they’re our people, what they want. So even though logistics does play a role, we just got to get it done.

Stephen Semple:

Awesome. So looking to the future, looking to the future there’s definitely changes happening in the construction industry, changes happening in the future. What do you guys think is your biggest opportunity and your biggest challenge? You’re now the third generation, taking this out to generation number four, what do you guys see as being the big opportunities and big challenges for LeNoble?

Ben Bernstein:

Our biggest opportunity and our biggest challenge is scaling from where we’re at. I think that the way everything we’ve talked about with how we run our people, how the operations department runs, we’ve put a lot of time thought and effort into how the organization is structured, that we think that we’re ready to take that next step into scaling into other areas outside of the five boroughs and all the other areas I mentioned that I think is our biggest challenge going forwards as well as finding talent, finding that next generation to the next nucleus at this company to help bring ourselves to the next level. That’s going to be our biggest challenge going forwards.

Stephen Semple:

So you see the big challenge as being really the people and the talent? The opportunities are out there, if you have the right people and the right talent, you can seize those opportunities is what you’re seeing?

Ben Bernstein:

Yeah. I think that we are a great organization that offers a younger generation, that have been pulled into different industries away from the construction and blue collar industry. I think that it’s left a void here where there’s some real opportunity for those who are in this industry in our generation to really seize that and take this company to the next level.

Stephen Semple:

There’s no question there’s massive opportunities in the trades business. What I find amazing is how many of my customers who’ve got trades businesses that ultimately have realized that to grow, they’ve built their own plumbing school or electrical school or school for fixing heating and air conditioning units because that’s the only way they can find people. They find somebody who’s talented and say, okay, I’m going to train you on how to do this trade. Because I think the educational system is letting people down on that front, unfortunately. It’s also that opportunity. There is a great opportunity for people on that, and when you find them, you can grow them and groom them.

So Dan, what do you see as being the big opportunity and the biggest challenge facing LeNoble going forward?

Dan LeNoble:

I mean, I’ll kind of say exactly what Ben said where fortunately we seem to be very much on the same page for things, which is nice. But yeah, it’s finding that talent and talent doesn’t necessarily mean that they come with a world of knowledge in this business. Yeah, it’s nice, but finding the right person I think is even more important. We can teach the products. We can teach how we do things. But finding someone who in their core has those qualities that you want in your organization, those are few and far between. We’ve been fortunate that we have found some great people like that. Some people that have come in that wouldn’t know a two by four from a sheet of plywood and have now grown so much within the company that they are just integral parts of who we are. It’s our greatest asset and the hardest thing to find sometimes, finding those people.

Stephen Semple:

It’s almost like what I’m hearing you say is your best people are the people where it’s like, “Damn it, yes, the road’s blocked. Yes, this is going on, but this delivery is happening. I’m not giving up. I’m not calling in and going, ‘Oh, I can’t figure this out.’ This is happening. I’m going to figure this out. I’m just that determined.”

Ben Bernstein:

Yeah.

Dan LeNoble:

Yep.

Stephen Semple:

That strikes me as what you’re looking for.

Ben Bernstein:

The people that treat this place like their name is on the door, those are the people that we want in this organization.

Dave Young:

Stay tuned. We’re going to wrap up this story and tell you how to apply this lesson to your business right after this.

[Empire Builders Ad]

Dave Young:

Let’s pick up our story where we left off. And trust me, you haven’t missed a thing.

Ben Bernstein:

The people that treat this place like their name is on the door. Those are the people that we want in this organization. We’ve been really fortunate to have people who have been with us for a long time. I’ll give an example of our VP of operations. His name is Sal. He’s been at the company for over 35 years. Started as a salesperson, has worn many different hats here, and he’s now the VP of our ops. And he’s in here every morning like it’s Sal Montoro lumber company. It makes no difference to him. He comes with the same passion every single day. He’s done it for 35 years. We’re looking for those types of people. And those are the people that when you get those people, you have to hang on to them and you have to have them grow the company.

Stephen Semple:

And the other thing I want to stress we haven’t talked about, but I know this to be true from the way you guys conduct yourselves, is that care and that determination and whatnot on a delivery because we’ve talked a lot about delivery. But let’s face it, that is also even a greater challenge when you’re delivering this highly milled specialized lumber because a dent doesn’t cut it, right? So it’s not just getting it to the site, it’s getting it to the site and getting it in, in this pristine condition. Because if I’m paying this premium price for this white oak paneling that has been beautifully milled, it’s a bit of a diva that you’re delivering. It’s got to be delivered beautifully and in the right manner at the right time. This is not a rough and tumble product that you’re throwing around here.

Ben Bernstein:

So even just to give another example… By the way, the word I was looking for before that I couldn’t think of was the fine art packing and creating industry that we service.

Stephen Semple:

There you go.

Ben Bernstein:

Great example of what we were talking about is we could be selling dimensional lumber to a fine art packer and to most industries, dimensional lumber, two by fours, one buys, if it has scuff marks on it or if it’s got a footprint on, it’s fine because they’re using it for construction purposes.

Stephen Semple:

Well, they’re using it for framing and it’s going to be hidden anyway.

Ben Bernstein:

Right. But with certain industries like this fine art packing that you might be putting a million dollar piece of artwork in this crate, and so that crate needs to be as pristine as the art.

Stephen Semple:

That’s really interesting.

Ben Bernstein:

We’ll send material to a customer who’s putting exorbitantly expensive artwork in these crates, and if the crate’s dirty, it’s scuffed, if anything is off, we’re getting that material right back. So the training, even our loaders have to be right on point that they know that this is the expectation for what we’re servicing.

Stephen Semple:

Because one could argue who cares if there’s a scuff mark on it, except if you’re putting a $5 million painting in there, presentation matters.

Ben Bernstein:

Exactly.

Stephen Semple:

That’s super interesting.

Dan LeNoble:

The crate has to be as nice as the artwork, as silly as it may sound, that’s the exact thing you were saying.

Stephen Semple:

Yeah. No, I get it. I get it. That’s super interesting. So Jessica, you had started, so we’re having you now anchor this whole thing. What do you see as being the biggest opportunity and the biggest challenge for LeNoble going forward?

Jessica LeNoble:

So for me, coming in and not having been here that long, but living this every day, I think that I agree with the scaling, but for the challenge for us is we pride ourselves on being this family business where we know everybody’s name, we care about everyone’s story. And as we continue to scale, it’s going to be interesting to see how we navigate growing and still being able to make it feel like a family company while also becoming more corporate and having multiple locations and multiple managers. I mean, if you come into this place, our offices, it is one big office. Dan and Ben do not have their own office. I can yell up to them just as easily as they can see me. That’s the way that this business runs, is everyone works together. And I think that the challenge for us is to not lose that while we continue to scale and grow. And I think that just being third generation and seeing how our fathers did it and how my grandfather did it, that that’s the baseline that we want to stick with while also becoming more successful.

Stephen Semple:

Yeah. It’s an interesting part that you bring up, Jessica, because there is a limit to how many people you can know the name of and actually feel this connection to. And different psychologists, sociologists have said, here’s the number limit, we can argue what it is, but there is a limit. And how do you manage and maintain that culture, as you said, when all of a sudden you’re 3 locations and you’re 500 people. But it’s that conscious thought to this is the challenge that helps people make sure that they maintain some of that core identity. So that’s a great observation on your part. It will be a challenge for you guys, that will be one of the challenges for you guys moving forward. And it’s the challenge of any businesses face. We wrap it in the word culture, but culture is kind of identity and core belief. And I always like to say culture is the thing that the employees do when the boss isn’t around. It’s this ingrained thing. And it can be, as a business grows, it can be a hard thing to defend.

Jessica LeNoble:

Yeah, I mean, as of now, the owners also do a lot of the managing. They see everything going on. And so it’ll be interesting to see who we hire, the type of people we hire, like the guys were saying before, when we can’t be at the other location. We do have two other warehouses. We have started that transition and that’s great, but we’re not done. We’re ready to keep going.

Stephen Semple:

That’s awesome. Ben, your perspective, if somebody was wanting to work with LeNoble and you’re speaking to a prospective customer about the benefits of LeNoble Lumber, what would you say to them? What’s the big benefit from your perspective?

Ben Bernstein:

We treat our customers like a partnership, meaning growing your business grows our business. So our goal is to make your job as easy as possible and to add value to your company. We have the products you’re looking for, and we have reliable service to get you them when you need them. If we don’t have products you’re looking for, we’re always willing to source and warehouse the product for you. And in that way, I think our biggest differentiator is we almost act as an extension of your team. And so at the end of the day, that’s how we bring value to our customers, and we really believe that your success is our success.

Stephen Semple:

Well, I think that’s a really interesting thing that you bring up is this whole idea of even if it’s a product you don’t have, so if there’s these 10 things I want to get, and there’s this one that you presently have, you’ll still go out and source that and warehouse that for me so that you can be my one-stop shop. That’s interesting.

Ben Bernstein:

Always. Yeah. We have the connections with vendors all across the world. If it’s a product that you need on a regular basis, we have the space in an indoor facility to warehouse that for you and get it to you the next day like all your other products.

Stephen Semple:

That’s awesome. That’s awesome. Yeah, I can certainly see how that would be a real key differentiator. Thanks for sharing that. How many people are you guys up to now? How many employees are you now?

Ben Bernstein:

We have 130 employees.

Stephen Semple:

So Jessica, yeah, you’re at that interesting point where it’s a large serious business. It’s going to be interesting to watch how you guys evolve and change over the years. Again, hats off to being in the third generation. And what I’m going to say that I’m hearing is you’re carrying forward a lot of the DNA that you inherited. So I am fully convinced that we’re going to be hearing great things about LeNoble in the future.

Dan LeNoble:

Thank you for that. We wake up every day and just try to just do a little bit better than the day before and take those principles that you just talked about and bring them with us in everything that we do. It’s definitely a challenge. But we have the people around us, we’ve had the teaching behind us, and we’re ready to take that next step forward as well.

Ben Bernstein:

Yeah.

Stephen Semple:

All right. Awesome.

Ben Bernstein:

Hopefully, we’ll be on the podcast in a few years and we’ll talk about how [inaudible 00:22:15]-

Stephen Semple:

Let’s do that. Let’s do that and do the update on how you’ve doubled the business in your more locations and you’re 300 people. Absolutely. Let’s do that. All right, I’m going to reach out to Jessica and set time in the calendar now.

Jessica LeNoble:

Sounds good.

Ben Bernstein:

Wonderful.

Stephen Semple:

All right. Awesome. Thanks for your time guys.

Ben Bernstein:

Thank you.

Dave Young:

Thanks for listening to the podcast. Please share us, Subscribe on your favorite podcast app and leave us a big fat juicy five star rating and review at Apple Podcasts. And if you’d like to schedule your own 90-minute Empire Building session, you can do it at Empirebuildingprogram.com.