Jessica, Dan and Ben took on the responsibility of the family business and are driving it into the future. Three more generations please.

Dave Young:

Welcome to the Empire Builders Podcast, teaching business owners the not-so-secret techniques that took famous businesses from mom-and-pop to major brands. Stephen Semple is a marketing consultant, story collector, and storyteller. I’m Stephen’s sidekick and business partner, Dave Young. Before we get into today’s episode, a word from our sponsor, which is… Well, it’s us. But we’re highlighting ads we’ve written and produced for our clients. So here’s one of those.

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Stephen Semple:

Hey, it’s Stephen Semple here with the Empire Builders Podcast, and we’re giving Dave Young the day off. And in replacement of Dave, I’ve got three really fun people that I know you’re going to love hearing their story, three folks from LeNoble Lumber. And I’m going to let them introduce themselves and tell us a little bit about each one of them because we’ve got me plus three people. So this is a little bit different, but I know everyone’s going to find this an awesome story. So because we’re all really super polite people, it’s ladies first, which means Jessica, you’re up first.

Jessica LeNoble:

I’m Jessica LeNoble. I am the last one to join the business of the three. I’ve been here for almost a year now. Dan, who you’ll meet in a minute, is my older brother. And it’s just great to be here.

Stephen Semple:

All right, awesome. Thanks, Jessica. Well, Dan, you’ve been teed up here now. She teed you up.

Dan LeNoble:

Hi. So I’m Dan LeNoble. I’m vice president of LeNoble Lumber. As said before, Jessica is my younger sister. Ben is also my partner over here. I’ve been full-time with the company for over 15 years now. And just excited to be here as well.

Stephen Semple:

All right, awesome. And Ben.

Ben Bernstein:

Yep.

Stephen Semple:

Now, I know this is a podcast. We can’t see that Ben’s wearing his very special, bright, lime green, fluorescent tuxedo because he’s calling in today from the shop. So Ben, let us know a little bit about you.

Ben Bernstein:

Yeah, my name is Ben Bernstein. I am co-vice president with Dan. I have been with the company since 2013. All of us are just very happy to be here, excited to be on the podcast.

Stephen Semple:

And here’s the thing that I think is really special before we get into things is you guys are kind of in a pretty special place when it comes to businesses in America and the world. The business was established in, if I remember correctly, I think it was 1965.

Dan LeNoble:

Correct.

Stephen Semple:

By Paul, right? And you guys are generation number three, really, to be coming through the business. Isn’t that correct?

Jessica LeNoble:

Yep.

Dan LeNoble:

Yeah, to this company, we’re the third generation, but the three of us, in terms of the lumber industry, we go back even further than that. I know for a fact Jess and myself we’re at least fifth generation in the lumber and I believe Ben is also further along as well. So we’re third generation to this business, but we kind of joke that we don’t have blood, we have sawdust in our veins.

Stephen Semple:

But I don’t think a lot of people realize the success rate of a business still being successful and in the hands of the third generation is really rare. There is actually not many businesses that have managed to do that. It’s amazing how often either the business has rolled up or it’s been sold to somebody else or has been merged with something and has kind of disappeared. But for this to be around and still prosperous and happening in generation three is really, really special. And you guys should pat yourself on the back on that, that you’ve been able to do all of those transitions.

Ben Bernstein:

Well, I think the credit for that really goes to the generations before us that have seen the vision of seeing that, okay, we are in this spot towards the second half of our careers and how do we set up the success of this company for the next generation? A lot of our competitors in the industry, they have not had the setup that we have had with the previous generations really having the foresight to look and prepare us as next-generation owners, getting us intricately involved in the company as a whole and us being able to learn from them has really been what’s been able to have us drive to that next level.

Stephen Semple:

So even before we step back and go into the history of the company, can you tell me a little bit more about what did that look like? How did the involvement happen in terms of what do you think are the key factors that made it successful? So in other words, if somebody’s-

Ben Bernstein:

Right.

Stephen Semple:

… looking to do that transition themselves, what are some of the things that they should consider?

Ben Bernstein:

I think starting from the ground level within the company to really understand what it takes to run each job at the company. For many, many summers, Dan and myself and Jessica, we used to work various different jobs in the yard. And so starting in that yard position, understanding what those guys are going through. And then when we came on full time, we start at a counter job in the office and you learn the ins and outs of what it takes to run that position. And stacking the responsibilities on top of each other, as well as involving the next generation in larger scale planning so that they can start to understand, okay, these are the reasons why we do things, I think that was really what set us up to be successful in the position that we’re in.

And also the generation, they’re still here right now. We are intricately involved in the company, but my father still works at the company. We have another partner, Matt Dienstag, who is still at the company, although he is retiring at the end of the year. Dan’s father, Peter, he retired maybe two years ago, and so he instilled all the principles into Dan before he left and really taught him most of what he knows today.

Stephen Semple:

That’s a really interesting thing in terms of having all sorts of positions inside the business. I have a client of mine, Tapper’s Jewelry, and they’re in the second generation. And Mark, who now runs the company, has often talked about how his first job was sweeping the floors in the jewelry store and serving customers coffee. Right?

Dan LeNoble:

Yeah.

Stephen Semple:

That was his job. Can you get Mrs. Smith a cup of coffee, please?

Dan LeNoble:

Yeah.

Stephen Semple:

Right? But also understanding the importance of that, right?

Dan LeNoble:

I think it goes unnoticed by some other companies just how important it is to have actually done every job, and when you’re asking someone to do something, you know what it actually entails to do that job and be able to work with them and say, “I’ve actually been in your shoes before. I’ve done this work.” And I think that’s-

Stephen Semple:

Right.

Dan LeNoble:

… hugely important and kind of endears you to your employees as well.

Stephen Semple:

That’s awesome.

Jessica LeNoble:

When I first got here, I was really nervous to do anything because I was on the customer end before, I was one of their customers. And then I came in and all of a sudden, I had to do all these things that I had never done before, and I went to my brother and I said, “Dan, can you do this or can I ask someone to do this? Who normally does this?” And he is like, “Well, you do now. You can’t ask anyone to do anything that you can’t do.” And that really set me up for how I view everything in this job.

Stephen Semple:

That’s interesting. But here’s the other interesting perspective that you bring. For a while, you were the customer. But that’s even interesting being the customer for a little while and now being part of the business. Even that’s good, bringing that perspective of what are customers really looking for. That’s awesome.

Jessica LeNoble:

Definitely.

Stephen Semple:

Yeah. So what’s your role today, Jessica?

Jessica LeNoble:

I’m a little bit of customer service. I’m a little bit of learning what these guys are doing. But for the most part, I’m on the ground floor with the sales reps and taking orders.

Stephen Semple:

All right, that’s awesome.

Ben Bernstein:

Jessica’s also been… I think we are involving Jessica as much as we can, knowing what a huge part of this company she is and will continue to grow into that larger role that Dan and I have developed over the years. It’s always, we are involving her more and more so that she’s understanding. It’s not just us telling her something. It’s really, involving someone, it makes them understand everything that you’re trying to do a lot easier than just trying to tell someone something or show them something. When you involve them in the decisions, it allows them to understand. And that curve that Dan and I had to go through, hopefully it’ll be shortened for her if we can involve her more from the beginning.

Jessica LeNoble:

Fingers crossed.

Stephen Semple:

That’s awesome. Who wants to take the responsibility of talking about the early days? What is it that led Paul to starting this business and how did the business all start way back in 1965?

Dan LeNoble:

So I think I’ve been dubbed the historian of this group, so I’ll take that on.

Stephen Semple:

All right, over to you, Dan.

Dan LeNoble:

The short version of the history is Paul used to work for his grandfather and his uncle at another lumber yard. And after his grandfather’s passing and his uncle taking it over, they just weren’t seeing eye to eye and things became very contentious between them. And Paul said, “You know what? I’ve been running this business essentially by myself and I’m going to go out on my own and I’m going to start LeNoble.”

And the company that he once worked for disappeared and he flourished. He started as a one man, a desk, and a station wagon, and did everything himself, whether it was taking the order, loading the truck, driving it, the paperwork. Everything associated with, he had his hands involved in every aspect because he was a one-man show. And he took those kind of ideals and that hard work and started growing the company slowly and slowly from there and finding people of like mind that just wanted to put in an honest day’s work and do everything to try to improve the company.

So he had been in it for quite some time, knew all the ins and outs, but saw a lack of management and top-end skill and said, “I can do this better. I’m going to take this on myself,” and started from there.

Stephen Semple:

Cool. Now, one of the things I noticed looking at your guys’ history was when it started, it started in Hell’s Kitchen, which I think in 1965 New York was not a great neighborhood.

Dan LeNoble:

Yeah. Far from it.

Stephen Semple:

I think maybe the name gives that away a little bit.

Dan LeNoble:

Just a little bit.

Jessica LeNoble:

It was interesting.

Dan LeNoble:

I mean, even dating back into the ’90s, I remember our old place used to be spread out on 52nd Street amongst one building here and a building up the block and a garage here. And I’d be in work with my dad and he’d be in the office and goes, “Well, go up the block and help them pull this. But don’t go up there by yourself.”

Dave Young:

Stay tuned. We’re going to wrap up this story and tell you how to apply this lesson to your business right after this.

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Dave Young:

Let’s pick up our story where we left off. And trust me, you haven’t missed a thing.

Dan LeNoble:

I’d be in work with my dad and he’d be in the office and goes, “Well, go up the block and help them pull this, but don’t go up there by yourself.” He’d [inaudible 00:13:02] at me standing at the door, watching me, and call someone, “Hey, make sure he makes it there,” and it’s a 200-yard walk. It was not a great neighborhood, but the area’s now completely changed. It’s actually really magnificent area, what they’ve transformed it into. But that kind of gave us our grit and grind at the same time. It wasn’t a great place to be. It gave you that drive to want to do better. So everything that we’ve been through in the past to get here kind of shaped who we are today on some level.

Stephen Semple:

So what do you think in the early days led to the success? And then I’m going to be asking you a little bit about the motion picture business. Before that, what do you think is the key that really made Paul successful? And I think there was also… I guess it was quite a bit later that Peter came into the business, but beyond the determination [inaudible 00:13:50], is there something that you can look at and say, wow, this is the thing that really set you guys apart from the competition?

Dan LeNoble:

So there’s a few ways I can touch on that. You touched on… I think his determination was one of his big factors and just frankly being a fairly decent person to be around. He always treated the person who was out there in the sun on a hundred degree day, loading that truck, covered in sweat, the same as the CEO of any other company. He just treated people well and expected what he’d expect to have himself, honest day’s work, and he’d get down there with them.

But there’s other things also, I would say. Just making smart moves amongst the people that he aligned himself with. So for instance, in the early ’90s is when Ben’s family’s business merged with LeNoble and we fell into the LeNoble name. And bringing in Ben’s father, Mark, into the fold definitely transformed who we were. It gave us a completely different revenue stream and the customers they serviced, different attitudes towards things, that willingness to listen to certain things, and just explore those options and see where we could go with those. I think those were some of his keys. And I think what he did was laid out just a great foundation. And everything starts from your foundation. You can’t build a successful business on rubble.

Ben Bernstein:

Right. Yeah. I’ll add to Dan’s point about that in regards to Paul. I think his number one attribute was his leadership, his lead by example mentality. He was not afraid to get his hands dirty at all. People could work for Paul for 20 years and they’d say, “I’ve never seen Paul sit at a desk,” to the point that I think in 52nd Street, he actually didn’t have a chair or he didn’t have a desk. I don’t know what the story was. He didn’t have a chair or he didn’t have a desk. He never sat. The guy was moving, involved in everything, and he led by example. And so when the top of your organization is leading by example, it shows everyone what the goal is and people follow that lead. It goes from there.

Jessica LeNoble:

And he still does, by the way.

Stephen Semple:

That’s awesome.

Jessica LeNoble:

He comes in once a week and does his rounds in the yard and the dispatch office. The man is 92 years old and it still feels like a family business where our grandfather comes in and greets everyone, knows everyone by name. He really did a number when it comes to loyalty. He’s loyal to his people and they’re loyal to him.

Stephen Semple:

That’s awesome.

Ben Bernstein:

People that have never worked for Paul, Paul had already been retired, they see him walking around. They have immense respect for him, never having technically worked under him. They understand where he comes from and they understand the mentality he brings and that his name was on the door first. And they respect that and they bring that mentality to their work.

Stephen Semple:

Especially today where we take a look at in the space of trades and construction work and whatnot, it’s harder and harder and harder to find people and retain people that, look, this is really important, that type of field, that type of culture, because what I’m going to guess is that what you’re telling me is there’s probably pretty high retention amongst your people.

Ben Bernstein:

Absolutely. We say we have hundreds of years of experience in this company and it’s a hundred percent true. We get people in this organization, they develop close relationships with their coworkers, and it facilitates a great work environment. And for that reason, we’re able to retain people for a long time and they just grow to be basically family members here to us.

Stephen Semple:

Well, and I think especially where you guys are also now doing some interesting work in some places that require a higher skill set, what I found interesting was in the ’70s, getting into doing some movies. I love the fact you’re in The Producers and the Godfather. Pretty cool projects. So how’d you guys end up becoming a supplier to the New York Motion Picture and television and I guess probably now Broadway industry?

Dan LeNoble:

So that dates back to originally when my grandfather was working for his uncle and grandfather, they dealt with those clients and he understood their needs. They are some of the best customers to have, and simultaneously the most demanding customers, but not in a bad way. In the sense that to produce a TV show, they have seven to 10 days to shoot each episode. That’s from building the set to scenicing the set, actually putting the actors on it, and shooting the whole thing. Seven to 10 days is not a lot of time. So when you get those drawings to build a set, you need material yesterday.

Stephen Semple:

Yeah.

Dan LeNoble:

And the way they run their budget sometimes doesn’t allow them to just have material lying around. So he’d get a call 7:00 in the morning, “Hey, we have to build this townhouse. I need a thousand sheets of plywood this afternoon or tomorrow morning.” And the only question that we would have is, “Well, do you have a forklift there or you need us to bring one for you?”

Stephen Semple:

Right. But there’s an interesting thing, even recognizing that that question needs to be asked. Right? It would be easy to go-

Dan LeNoble:

Yeah.

Stephen Semple:

… “Okay, I’ll show up with the lumber.” And then, surprise, there’s not a forklift. But yeah, those are tight timelines. Those are difficult things. It was interesting. I was listening recently to a Freakonomics podcast on the economics of Broadway plays. And holy smokes, it’s $30 million to produce a Broadway play today. I was like… I was flabbergasted on what they spend on sets. Like, holy crap.

Dan LeNoble:

It’s astounding what they pour into it and what they will do in a span of weeks. I mean, they will take an empty show of a stage and build everything from the Met Museum, to a townhouse, to tenements, and everywhere in between. Actually, Jess, you could probably speak a little bit more about this because you were on these sets, this was your former career.

Jessica LeNoble:

Yeah, I dressed movies and TV sets for 10 years before I decided to come to the family business.

Stephen Semple:

Oh, wow. Okay. So what am I talking about? You’re the expert in all of this stuff.

Jessica LeNoble:

Well, my job was to come in after all the sets were built, but I watched it happen. I was responsible for once these guys deliver the lumber, they set it up into a set. I came in and I basically decorated it. And one thing that’s interesting is when you hear LeNoble Lumber, you think, “Okay, wood.” But it’s not just wood. We go so beyond that, that we provide almost everything to create the set aside from the furniture. If you want a faux brick wall, we have the faux brick for that. Even though it’s not considered lumber, we provide that. And there’s a bunch of other things here, and we’re continuing to grow our product lines and figure out what the needs are to really make it that you can one-stop shop at our place.

Stephen Semple:

So your goal is that… Because the other thing I noticed is you do things like museums and department stores, and do you also still do residential or is it all in the commercial side of the business?

Jessica LeNoble:

So super interesting, and I think Ben can speak to this because the movie industry has had a tough time the past few years. We’ve expanded quite a bit. And Ben, do you want to go into that?

Ben Bernstein:

Yeah. When I started 11 years ago, and I’ll even go further back to before I came on board, the movie and TV industry made up roughly 30 to almost 50 or 60%, ranging by year, of our revenue. And what we quickly realized is it’s dangerous to have all of your eggs in one basket. As amazing as the movie and TV industry is in this area, and it’s growing every year and the benefits of that, we needed to diversify ourselves.

So my father, Mark, he went out and started try to find other industries for us to diversify ourselves into. For example, we weren’t doing much with high-end architectural panels; the walnut, the teak, the white oak panels that you would see in office buildings and in department stores. We didn’t really do any of that work. And we decided to hire some people with various histories in that industry and grow that business to a huge part of what we do today is high-end architectural panels. We’re probably one of the top distributors in New York City for that material.

And then a few years ago, we decided, aside from the fabrication companies and the carpenters and the various customer bases that we sell, we also were not really high in the new construction business. So we went out and made a big investment into new boom trucks, more space, and we started to diversify into new residential construction in New York City, which we previously had dabbled in, but just in a controlled way. And now we’ve really opened ourselves up to be a real player in that industry.

So we’re trying to pepper ourselves all over New York in various ways to have our hand a little bit in everything. And for that reason, we’re just trying to bring the customer added value.

Stephen Semple:

Yeah. And there’s got to be some really interesting, unique challenges to delivering your products and whatnot in Manhattan.

Bob:

Oh no, no.

Rick:

What?

Bob:

I was enjoying this episode.

Rick:

Don’t worry. Part two’s coming next week.

Bob:

It better.

Dave Young: Thanks for listening to the podcast. Please share us, subscribe on your favorite podcast app, and leave us a big, fat, juicy, five-star rating and review at Apple Podcasts. And if you’d like to schedule your own 90-minute empire building session, you can do it at empirebuildingprogram.com.