A feeling of authenticity is what really brought 007 to life and the Broccoli family brought it to the screen.

Dave Young:

Welcome to the Empire Builders Podcast, teaching business owners the not-so-secret techniques that took famous businesses from mom-and-pop to major brands. Stephen Semple is a marketing consultant, story collector, and storyteller. I’m Stephen’s sidekick and business partner Dave Young.

Before we get into today’s episode, a word from our sponsor, which is, well, it’s us. But we’re highlighting ads we’ve written and produced for our clients, so here’s one of those.

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Dave Young:

Welcome back to the Empire Builders Podcast. Dave Young with you, alongside Stephen Semple. We’re talking about famous brands. This is, I guess it’s a brand, sure. It’s Bond, James Bond we’re going to talk about.

Stephen Semple:

Yes.

Dave Young:

It’s not a consumer product.

Stephen Semple:

Well-

Dave Young:

It’s one of those things where there’s a story and it fits the zeitgeist of marketing in the popular, I don’t even know what I’m trying … Save me, Stephen. What am I trying to say?

Stephen Semple:

Well, I look at it this way. How is it not a brand?

Dave Young:

Oh, it’s a brand.

Stephen Semple:

The moment I say Bond.

Dave Young:

Yeah.

Stephen Semple:

Shaken not stirred.

Dave Young:

Sure.

Stephen Semple:

We all know who it is.

Dave Young:

Evil geniuses.

Stephen Semple:

The first movie came out in 1962.

Dave Young:

Yeah.

Stephen Semple:

And has generated billions and billions of dollars, both in a Hollywood, and spinoffs, and product placements. We all know about Aston Martin DB-whatevers because of Bond.

Dave Young:

Sure.

Stephen Semple:

To me, how is this not a brand?

Dave Young:

It’s definitely a brand. I guess I’m thinking that most of what we’ve done have been consumer-facing products.

Stephen Semple:

Correct.

Dave Young:

Bond definitely is, in that selling seats to movies.

Stephen Semple:

Yeah.

Dave Young:

For sure, that’s consumer-focused. I’m with you. I’m all for talking about Bond.

Stephen Semple:

Yeah.

Dave Young:

We just have to think differently, which I think like an evil genius.

Stephen Semple:

Well, the other part is it was the world’s first blockbuster franchise. It’s estimated that it’s done seven billion in revenues.

Dave Young:

Yeah.

Stephen Semple:

Big, big, big, big, big, big bucks.

Dave Young:

We’re always wondering, even when there’s no Bond movie out, we’re wondering who’s the next Bond going to be?

Stephen Semple:

Who’s the next Bond?

Dave Young:

Yeah.

Stephen Semple:

Who’s the next Bond? Which is the controversy right now today.

Dave Young:

Sure.

Stephen Semple:

That we’re going to come back and talk a little bit about.

One of the funniest things though, when I was researching this, one of the funniest things is how Ian Fleming … Ian Fleming created the Bond character and wrote the James Bond books, of which, what is it, the original dozen movies or so were all based upon the books. But here’s the interesting thing, how he came up with the name James Bond. He’s sitting writing, and he looks up at this book, The Birds of the West Indies because he’s living in Jamaica, and it’s written by James Bond. He goes, “That’s a really cool name. That’s what I’m going to name my spy.”

Dave Young:

I like that, yeah. People that have single-syllable names always roll off the tongue.

Stephen Semple:

Yeah. I’m not going to go into a lot of the history. We’re going to talk about it a little bit. I want to talk about something different, and it’s going to seem weird. Because part of the reason why I believe James Bond, the Bond franchise and the Bond movies, have become so big and so successful is there’s actually a degree of authenticity in all of them. Doesn’t that sound weird, saying that about Bond?

Dave Young:

Okay, go with that. I sense that that’s true.

Stephen Semple:

Yeah.

Dave Young:

Especially, man, aspirational authenticity. We like to believe that the world has these heroes and these villains.

Stephen Semple:

Yeah. First of all, talk about Ian Fleming, the creator of the character and the writer of the books. If you don’t know about Ian Fleming, Ian Fleming did espionage in World War II.

Dave Young:

Right.

Stephen Semple:

At an unbelievable scale. I’m going to do a shout-out to one of our partners, Brian Brushwood, who did a multipart podcast called The World’s Greatest Con. Go and listen to that. Ian Fleming plays a big role in that world’s greatest con. What the world’s greatest con was, they created this character, and this backstory, and this whole thing to make Hitler believe the invasion was coming through Italy.

Dave Young:

Right.

Stephen Semple:

It’s fascinating, and it’s fascinating the role that Ian Fleming created. They had to create this whole character for this person, and if you checked into it, to make it all feel unbelievably real, and Ian Fleming was a big driver in that. Here’s a guy who, in World War II, was so deep in espionage and so deep in writing, that this is the stuff that he created.

Dave Young:

He created a false story that ended up to be realized.

Stephen Semple:

Yeah.

Dave Young:

And presented as truth.

Stephen Semple:

Right.

Dave Young:

As a ruse, yeah.

Stephen Semple:

As a ruse. Now part of his work, because of a buddy of his, he ended up spending a little bit of time in Jamaica. He had decided after the war he was going to retire to Jamaica and become a writer. What he wanted to do was create these stories around espionage and whatnot. But think about it.

The reason why I’m talking about authenticity is what he was doing was he had experienced, he did this in real life.

Dave Young:

Yeah.

Stephen Semple:

Then now, all he decided to do was do this as fiction. Which I think is part of the reason why there’s a degree of believability when you’re reading his books. Yes, they’re fantasy, but kind of not at the same time.

Dave Young:

Sure.

Stephen Semple:

Right. I think that’s part of the magic of Bond.

Now here’s the other part that’s magical in terms of Bond. Ian Fleming hung out with guys like Ivar Bryce, who was the heir to the AMP fortune. The home that Fleming built was called Golden Eye, he named it Golden Eye, which also ended up becoming one of the movies. One of the espionage things that they did in World War II was Golden Eye. There’s all of these connections. Ian Fleming ends up having an affair with Lady Anne, who’s husband owns The Daily Telegram.

Dave Young:

Okay.

Stephen Semple:

He has this affair with a woman in a very high position. They end up having a child together. She ends up getting divorced and marrying Ian Fleming, which complicated Ian Fleming’s life. He’s now also with this woman who’s used to the high life, so he’s feeling this financial heat.

But also, it creates that exposure to that lifestyle without it being an insider. The other part that we’re attracted to in terms of Bond is Bond is elegant. Bond likes the finer things in life, but Bond is not part of the aristocracy.

Dave Young:

Right.

Stephen Semple:

He’s not one of those guys. He’s a bit of an outsider, but he’s comfortable there. That’s Ian Fleming.

Dave Young:

Nice. Okay, yeah.

Stephen Semple:

Right?

Dave Young:

Oh, I see that.

Stephen Semple:

In Casino Royale, which was the first book, was inspired by Fleming going to a casino and seeing some people who he recognizes and he thinks they’re former Nazis, and decides to take them on in a game of poker. The whole idea of Casino Royale and that tension, where there’s actually a battle being fought over the poker table, he experienced. It inspired him for writing Casino Royale.

Dave Young:

Wow.

Stephen Semple:

That’s why it feels so real.

Dave Young:

Because yeah, yeah.

Stephen Semple:

The crazy thing is I believe part of the success of it is this whole idea of there’s these layers of actual authenticity through the books.

Now it gets even crazier when they go to pick Sean Connery as Bond. It was actually the folks that were producing it, which was Cubby Broccoli. Cubby Broccoli, and yes, the name Broccoli. Right, broccoli?

Dave Young:

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Stephen Semple:

His family actually created broccoli and brought it into the world.

Dave Young:

Wait, wait.

Stephen Semple:

Yes, the name Broccoli is tied to broccoli.

Dave Young:

They’re not named after broccoli, broccoli is named after them.

Stephen Semple:

Named after them!

Dave Young:

Wow. Wow. Okay.

Stay tuned. We’re going to wrap up this story and tell you how to apply this lesson to your business right after this.

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Dave Young:

Let’s pick up our story where we left off, and trust me, you haven’t missed a thing.

Stephen Semple:

There’s a whole bunch of crazy backstory about how Cubby Broccoli ended up becoming one of the folks who got a hold of the Bond franchise.

Dave Young:

Yeah.

Stephen Semple:

That’s a whole other backstory because he does it with Harry Saltzman. The only reason I got to bring up the name Harry Saltzman, fellow Canadian.

Dave Young:

Oh, all right. There we go.

Stephen Semple:

It was Harry Saltzman and Broccoli who brought the Bond franchise to life.

The whole idea in Casino Royale, there’s this whole idea of a war being fought over a gambling table. Now the interesting thing is Casino Royale did not end up being the first movie because somebody else got the rights to Casino Royale.

Dave Young:

Wow! Okay.

Stephen Semple:

Broccoli and Saltzman got the rights to everything else. It was only years later that they were able to get back the rights for Casino Royale and eventually make the Casino Royale movie. Man, the other thing that they did well in that movie was creating that tension.

Dave Young:

Yeah.

Stephen Semple:

But coming back to Sean Connery. It was Broccoli’s wife who basically said, “You got to pick Sean Connery.” She saw Sean Connery in this really crappy Disney movie. It didn’t do well, and he was this goofball character in this Disney movie. But she looked at him and said, “This man has the right energy to make-“

Dave Young:

The panache, yeah.

Stephen Semple:

… “this work.” The right panache, the right sexual energy. In fact, when they brought him in to talk about the movie, he wouldn’t read for it. He said, “I’m not reading for your movie. I don’t read for movies.” They also really liked that cocky, arrogant feel to it.

But coming back to authenticity. Connery grew up poor, middle class at best. He was a milkman. You had to have this suave, sophisticated feel. One of the things that they did is they hired Terence Young to be the first director. Terence Young was a British gentleman.

Dave Young:

Okay.

Stephen Semple:

He knew all of the traits. The whole vodka martini shaken not stirred, that’s a Terence Young thing.

Dave Young:

Okay.

Stephen Semple:

He’s like, “That’s the only way you drink it.” That’s not in the books. In the books, if I remember correctly, it’s gin. But he’s like, “Yeah, yeah, yeah, gin martinis are out. Do a vodka martini shaken not stirred.” That was a Terence Young thing.

But here’s the other thing Terence Young did, and this is where another piece of brilliance lie. He looked at Connery and he said, “Okay, this guy’s not comfortable around these things and he has to be.” What he did is he took him to Savile Row, took him to his tailor at Savile Row. He said, “Make this guy a suit.” He went to Connery and said, “You’re going to sleep in that suit. Sleep in it, you’re going to live in it. What you’re going to do is you’re going to feel these really great fabrics tailored in a really great way. You’re going to experience how fantastic they feel and it’s going to become like that second skin for you.”

Dave Young:

Wow, okay.

Stephen Semple:

Which is what, if we go back into the ’50s, if you were in the aristocracy in the ’50s, that’s how you felt in your suit.

Dave Young:

Sure.

Stephen Semple:

He did these things with Connery so that when Connery put the suit on, it was this magical moment where he felt completely like he lived in the suit because he made him live in it.

Dave Young:

All right. That’s amazing.

Stephen Semple:

Originally, I was going to do this literally around the origin of Bond and how they got the rights, and all these other things. When I stepped back and took a look at it, I said, “You know what, there’s a different story here.” The story here is there’s this degree of magic that runs through the Bond franchise that is actually these levels of authenticity. Ian Fleming actually being a spy. Ian Fleming actually being that little bit of an outsider to this lifestyle, but yet being comfortable with it and coming into it. Then this whole idea of Bond, and then them taking Bond and having then the director who’s from that world and Bond who isn’t, and how he create that authentic feeling that he’s comfortable with all these things I thought was incredible.

All this leads to a challenge that’s facing the Bond franchise today. The Broccoli family are still involved with Bond. It’s now through the daughter, Barbara Broccoli. What’s interesting is Barbara Broccoli retains creative control over Bond, so the Broccoli family has creative control. MGM used to be the distributor and MGM was bought by Amazon. Amazon now has the distribution rights, Barbara Broccoli has the creative rights.

Dave Young:

Wow, okay.

Stephen Semple:

If you’ve noticed, there’s been no Bond film for three years, and they used to come out every couple years. There’s not even one planned. We don’t even know who the new Bond is going to be.

Dave Young:

Right. But we’re all on pins-and-needles, waiting.

Stephen Semple:

Yeah. I came across this, that the reason why it’s on pause is there’s an ugly stalemate going on between the family and Amazon.

Dave Young:

Okay.

Stephen Semple:

Here’s what’s going on. Broccoli, according to this report, doesn’t trust the algorithm-centric Amazon with the Bond character, preferring to use gut instinct with a healthy amount of risk. According to the Wall Street Journal, “Where Broccoli casts the unknown Daniel Craig as Bond in 2006, Amazon prefers to calculate risks based upon factors including an actor’s past performance or their prior success in similar films. Amazon isn’t keen on casting an unknown in a lead role like Bond.”

The upshot of all of this is there’s no script, no new Bond for a new movie. The Wall Street Journal said to friends, Broccoli has characterized her thoughts on Amazon this way, “These people are fucking idiots.”

Dave Young:

Yeah. I can tell you … You want to hear my idea for a screenplay that would sell like crazy right now? Amazon won’t do it.

Stephen Semple:

Sure, let’s hear it.

Dave Young:

I was going to say that maybe the issue that they’re all facing is that Bezos wants to be the new Bond. But here’s what the world wants right now. A new James Bond that takes on a Bezos.

Stephen Semple:

Yeah, there you go.

Dave Young:

That takes on the oligarchy. That’s the story we’d all go see. Honestly, I don’t know that Amazon, they wouldn’t green light a project that takes on a Bezos character.

Stephen Semple:

Probably not. Right. But you see what Amazon’s trying to do. Amazon is trying to-

Dave Young:

Sure.

Stephen Semple:

… run this through the algorithm.

Dave Young:

Yeah, yeah. Screw the algorithm.

Stephen Semple:

But the history of Bond has a degree of authenticity to it, and it’s also not unusual that the new Bonds are not well-known folks because that’s how it’s always worked with Bonds. They’re not even rerunning their own success criteria and they’re stepping away from what made them great.

Dave Young:

See, this wouldn’t be hard to solve. Have the algorithm, in the script, the algorithm picks the new James Bond. He’s not even an actor.

Stephen Semple:

There you go.

Dave Young:

It’s just, “No, we got a guy.”

Stephen Semple:

Well, we didn’t mention this, but going back to authenticity. The chase scenes are all live filmed. They’re not CGI.

Dave Young:

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Stephen Semple:

Nothing is CGI’ed in Bond movies. It’s real stunts, real car scenes. Real, real, real, real, real.

Dave Young:

Sure.

Stephen Semple:

I think that creates an element that is just under the water that we all feel and love, and makes Bond special.

Dave Young:

I agree, I agree. There’s so much that does.

Stephen Semple:

Yeah. The lesson here is, I think for marketers when they’re telling their story, and we all know telling our story is really important, make that story authentic. People can tell, I believe on this deep level, whether it’s real. Like our business partner Mick Torbay always likes to say, “Real matters.”

Yes, Bond’s totally made up. But you notice how there’s these degrees of authenticity all through it?

Dave Young:

Oh, sure. Yeah.

Stephen Semple:

It’s pretty cool.

Dave Young:

It is. Well, I love it. Thank you for bringing Bond to the table.

Stephen Semple:

All right.

Dave Young:

James Bond.

Stephen Semple:

Yes. You’ll have to start the next one, “Hi, I’m Young, Dave Young.”

Dave Young:

Dave Young, yes.

Stephen Semple:

Thanks, Dave.

Dave Young:

Thank you.

Welcome back to the Empire Builders Podcast. Dave Young here with Stephen Semple. I don’t know what we’re doing, Stephen. Here’s the thing. You said, “Yeah, we’ve got a little unfinished business maybe with the James Bond episode.”

Stephen Semple:

Yeah, we do.

Dave Young:

Is the villain back? What’s the deal?

Stephen Semple:

Well, in fact, kind of. Remember how we talked about how Barbara Broccoli and the Broccoli family were retaining control over the creative?

Dave Young:

Sure, yeah.

Stephen Semple:

Of Bond, and that was creating this big challenge.

Dave Young:

Oh, oh, oh, yeah.

Stephen Semple:

In terms of conflict with Amazon, and how she said they were a bunch of idiots, things along that lines. Well, guess what?

Dave Young:

I remember seeing that in the news, yeah. They decided they’re going to play along.

Stephen Semple:

They’re going to play along. They sold the creative rights to Amazon, it’s rumored for a billion dollars. Basically, MGM Amazon now has complete control of distribution rights and complete creative control over Bond.

Dave Young:

The villain has won.

Stephen Semple:

The villain has won!

Dave Young:

I see, Mr. Bond. You’re mine now.

Stephen Semple:

Yeah. I suspect that what we’re going to see is similar to what happened with Star Wars and Disney, where there’s going to be, God, who knows how many movies and spinoffs-

Dave Young:

Cartoons.

Stephen Semple:

And all this other stuff. It’s going to be interesting to see who ends up becoming the new Bond, and whatnot. But I felt that, between the time that we recorded and I got it produced, and we were about to publish it, that this change happened and I felt like we just needed to do this little update.

Dave Young:

Sure. Gosh, the mind reels as to what could happen. Where could a corporate entity take a really good story?

Stephen Semple:

Well, we saw it with Marvel and we’ve seen it with Star Wars. I think what we’re going to see is just a proliferation of stuff. Some will be good and some will be poor, but stay tuned.

Dave Young:

Okay.

Stephen Semple:

Let’s see whether it holds onto any of this real feeling of realism that it always had, or whether that’s the first thing to disappear.

Dave Young:

Well, there’s a future episode for us.

Stephen Semple:

All right.

Dave Young:

Whenever the next Bond thing is.

Stephen Semple:

The next Bond thing. All right. Anyway, that’s just the update I wanted to do.

Dave Young:

Appreciate the update. The villains are winning so far in the world.

Stephen Semple:

Sad but true.

Dave Young:

Yeah.

Stephen Semple:

Sad but true.

Dave Young:

Where’s Bond when you need him? He’s sold out.

Stephen Semple:

He’s been sold.

Dave Young:

Thanks, Stephen.

Stephen Semple:

All right. Thanks, David.

Dave Young:

Thanks for listening to the podcast. Places share us, subscribe on your favorite podcast app, and leave us a big, fat, juicy, five-star rating and review at Apple Podcasts. If you’d like to schedule your own 90-minute Empire Building session, you can do it at empirebuildingprogram.com.