Fieldnotes - Dogs in Our World
Adam Karp: Dogs & Law
In this episode, Adam Winston sits down with Adam P. Karp, a dedicated animal law attorney, to discuss the evolution of animal law, its impact on dogs and their owners, and the challenges and opportunities in this legal field. Topics include the history of animal law dating back to the Code of Hammurabi, current laws in Washington state, legal battles over animal custody, and the importance of responsible dog ownership.
Read on for key takeaways, resource links, and the full transcript.
Key Takeaways- Animal law has ancient roots but has evolved significantly in the last 40-50 years.
- Dogs are legally considered property, but courts are beginning to recognize their unique status.
- Laws vary by jurisdiction, with some states allowing joint custody of pets in divorces.
- Responsible dog ownership includes managing noise, waste, and behavior to avoid legal issues.
- Service animal fraud is a growing concern with legal consequences.
- Dogs in Our World Website
- Animal Legal Defense Fund (aldf.org)
- Adam P. Karp’s Book: Understanding Animal Law on Amazon
- Houseman vs. Dare Case Summary
Introduction
Adam: Welcome to episode number four of Dogs in Our World. Today, we will learn about dogs and the law. I think there’s a little something for everyone in this show. We also have a really special featured guest for you to meet. I’m excited to finally get this episode into your ears. I think a lot of you will find something insightful in today’s installment.
The first part of this show will be a very brief history and definition of animal law. The second part of this episode will look at some present-day, dog-related laws and issues. In the final part, and throughout the show, myself and our guest will share some simple tips on how all of us can be on the right side of the law and dog welfare.
As always, we have a lot to cover, so let’s get started.
Part 1: History and Definition of Animal LawPart 1: History and Definition of Animal Law
Adam: Today’s show features someone whom I consider to be a hero. In my view, he is an animal welfare warrior. This dude is not playing. I initially set out to find someone who could teach me about Dog Law, and ended up meeting with one of the leading animal law practitioners in the United States.
Karp: Full name. Adam … do you want my middle name?
Adam: I don’t know. Whatever you want people to know.
Karp: Adam P. Karp is fine. I run Animal Law Offices. Solo Practitioner. I’ve been practicing animal law, exclusively, for … I think this is my 19th year.
Adam: Tell me about that book I saw on Amazon?
Karp: So. Carolina Academic Press put out a book that’s part of a series called Understanding “something”. Right? So, Understanding Criminal Law, Understanding Bankruptcy Law, So, they created a new one called Understanding Animal Law and I was asked to write it. So, the book is about 700+ pages. Covers two-dozen or so areas of animal law. Although, that’s certainly not all. There’s probably 12-20 other topics that I could’ve covered, but there just wasn’t enough space and they weren’t going to wait any longer. So, that book really encapsulates a great deal of my experience in litigation and legal research, and will hopefully help law students and anyone who cares about animals and the law. Help them to understand what the field is about, how broad it is, and maybe incorporate it into their day-to-day.
Adam: I know that there may not be a simple answer, but what is Animal Law?
Karp: There are a lot of working definitions. Probably the easiest one is that something about the case turns on the life of an animal. Something about an animal. Whether it’s about how an animal is viewed in a religious sense for instance. How the animal is perceived at a genetic level. How the animal interacts with people at a social level. Something about the animal’s behavior. Whether the animal is a perpetrator, a victim …. a party (chuckles) … that’s another whole push of animal law, which is to try and recognize them as legal persons, but that’s not really what animal law is day-to-day. So, I’d say any type of case where the outcome turns on or something significant in the litigation itself turns on the life of an animal.
Adam: By now, you guys should know how I do. Let’s start at the beginning and allow Mr. Karp to give us just a little background history of animal law.
Karp: Well, go back to the Code of Hammurabi.
Adam: What’s that?
Karp: (chuckles) Middle east. Old, old codes. We’re talking hundreds and hundreds of years ago. There were laws that pertained to even veterinary malpractice. So, I think if a surgeon, an early veterinarian committed some type of malpractice involving a mule or a donkey.
Adam: What years are we talking?
Karp: Gosh. I’d have to look. Probably thousands of years ago.
Adam: That’s ok. I’ll look it up.
Adam: I looked it up on Britannica.com. The code of Hammurabi is a set of Babylonian laws from the time of King Hammurabi during the first Babylonian dynasty. This was from 1792 BC to 1750 BC. Or, in other words, they’re super old laws that are nearly 4000 years old. I guess, if you are a law student, or historian, you probably know all about them. And, apparently, the Code of Hammurabi did include laws that addressed animals.
Karp: … there would be a certain number of sheckles that would be owed if there was some error made under the surgeon’s knife. And, so, way back when, thousands of years ago, there were early codes that talked about the value of animals.
Adam: Really?
Karp: Yeah, as a result of some type of medical error. But, I’d say that modern animal law really developed more in the last 40-50 years.
Adam: Ok.
Karp: So, some people look at it as a form of Cause Lawyering. No differently than civil rights lawyers, women’s rights lawyers, environmental rights lawyers, gay rights lawyers. So, there are legal movements that typically are motivated by the needs of an underserved or underrepresented group. And, there’s often a paradigm shift that develops too in the law, and also in society, when these movements sort of pick up steam. Animal Law, really, is a spinoff of the environmental law movement.
Adam: Welcome back. In the first part of this episode, Adam P. Karp gave us a brief history and definition of animal law. Now, let’s examine animal laws here in Washington state and how they affect the dogs in our world. Or, should I say, we’ll examine how the dogs in our world affect the law.
Adam: Are there any laws that are new and changing? Are there any laws that you would like to change?
Karp: Some of the laws that are changing … it’s funny. I’m always amazed at the number of times that legislators float bills for dogs in bars. I don’t know why it’s so important to have non-service dogs sitting there next to you as you have a beer, but, ok. That seems to be a popular bill in Washington. The other thing I’ve seen are issues to address tethering. So, anti-tethering types of laws. Because, of course …
Adam: Thank you for bringing this up.
Karp: Can be considered cruel in certain circumstances. It can also increase aggression, and protectiveness, and territorialism, of the animals. But, mostly it’s an abuse type of issue. And, so, I think there are two bills currently, in this session, floating down in Olympia that deal with tethering. And one of them, I believe, is going to pass.
Adam: And, what is it you mean by “tethering”?
Karp: Oh, basically, like leaving a dog chained up outside, all day long, without adequate shelter. Without adequate water or food.
Adam: What about when I’m going to my corner store and there’s that big dog leashed to the sign next to the front door there. Is that legal? Just to tie your dog up in front of the store as you go in and shop?
Karp: Oh. It depends what jurisdiction. So, in the City of Seattle, the dog would be considered at-large. Because, the dog needs to be, basically, tied to your hand. It can’t be tied to an inanimate object or a post. Many people do it, but you’ve just now lost control of the animal. And, you don’t know what’s going to happen. You don’t know if a kid’s going to be riding his bicycle right against the dog and get nailed. You don’t know if a patron is going to be coming in or out with food and maybe the dog will startle them and they’ll drop everything and break it. A lot of things can happen, if you don’t have that leash in your hand at all times.
Adam: Am I obligated to report that to animal control?
Karp: No, you have no duty, at all, to do so. No, no. We don’t have mandatory reporting laws, except, in some jurisdictions, there’s a mandatory report, if you find a stray.
Karp: One law that I’ve worked on for a number of years is actually an extension of a law regarding livestock. This is a civil cause of action involving 1st degree or 2nd degree theft of livestock or felony animal cruelty or malicious injury to livestock, which are all crimes. Basically, what this law does, is it says if you own livestock in a specifically defined category — like a horse, a bovine, a goat, a sheep, that sort of thing — if your livestock is the victim of felony animal cruelty, or felony theft of livestock, or malicious injury to livestock, which is a relatively new animal abuse crime, then you can sue the person who did it for trouble damages and reasonable attorney’s fees.
Adam: That’s great! Except, dogs are not considered “livestock”. And, Washington state doesn’t provide punitive damages in such cases. Adding an attorney fee provision would be the “big stick”, as you call it, and would make guilty parties reimburse victims’ attorney fees.
Part 3: Practical Advice and Broader Legal TopicsAdam: Welcome back to part three of this episode, which is all about dogs and animal law. In part one, Adam P. Karp gave us a brief history and explanation of animal law. In the second part of the show, we looked at Washington state laws and how animal law is evolving around the country from Alaska to New Jersey. Now, in the final part of this episode, I want to explore law related topics that could affect all of us. Including both those of us who don’t have a dog and those who do. And, what about those of you out there who doesn’t like, or knows someone who doesn’t like dogs? What rights or protections do people, such as small business owners have?
Adam: I feel like those people who get a $20 vest so they can take their dog into the sushi restaurant with them. I feel like they’re doing a disservice. I don’t know. There’s something I don’t feel right about, yet. What about the person who is afraid of dogs or uncomfortable around dogs, and then realize that they’re on an 8-hour flight next one. Am I reaching too far? Why am I feeling these weird contradictory things?
Karp: Well, you know. Times have changed. There are articles that have been written. You might want to look at a professor named Erica Fudge. She’s written a ton. Basically, on human bond and sort of the cultural underpinnings of our relationship with animals. Particularly companion animals. Her research is thought provoking. As well as James Serpell whose book actually helped me down the path that I have taken. He wrote a book called In the Company of Animals. Serpell, and to a lesser extent Peter Singer, of course, who wrote Animal Liberation. Those are all important sources who will help talk about how our relationship to animals has changed over the last 100 years.
Karp: In the last 20 years, it’s definitely changing. So, with these changes we have more and more human-animal interactions and with the diversification and urbanization by packing more people in a tighter space … and animals. I haven’t looked at stats recently, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there are more dogs, cats, and non-human animals per household than children. Or, at least close to that. So, you now, inevitably we’re having more conflicts. What you’re sensing is for the person who doesn’t have a dog, or has been bitten by dogs, or doesn’t care for the noise that might be generated from disorderly barking dogs. Or, the smell of dogs who may not be properly cleaned. What rights do they have in places outside of their dwelling? And, so on an airplane, in the supermarket, at a park. Of course, they have rights. We have competing rights. I can assure you. Although there is an element of fraud. There is such a thing as Service Animal Fraud.
Adam: I think that’s the word I was looking for.
Karp: There are some states that have passed laws that make it a crime to engage in service animal fraud. Which is asserting, as simply draping the animal in garb that suggests he’s a service animal. Or, by telling somebody “this is a service animal back off”. When in fact, the person is either not disabled or the animal is not trained. That’s fraud. And so. Here’s how I look at it. I think that animal accommodation rules should not be limited to just those who serve. As long as an animal is well behaved, I don’t think it matters. I think they should let every animal in at a restaurant, as long as they’re not getting into the food preparation area.
Adam: The city bus.
Karp: They should be allowed everywhere, as long as they’re well behaved.
Adam: Who decides what a well-behaved animal is?
Karp: Well Animal Control would decide that. The department of justice. Or HUD, if they’re involved. Basically, federal or state anti-discrimination agencies who are called upon to determine whether the dog is acting in a way that creates unreasonable risk. Whether there is some undue or direct threat presented by the animal. That’s where it’s decided. The federal laws that deal with service or assistance animal access all provide the rights of a proprietor to boot a dog.
Adam: And now, what about the people who do have dogs? What are some rights, or laws, or some things that you would like the dog owners to be more aware and conscious of?
Karp: Most of the calls that I get are (in terms of dogs behaving badly) going to be dogs who are rude, mouthy, and jumpy. That turns into a casualty. They either lack leash control, or get loose, or trespasses on someone’s property. Or, knocks an elderly person down and they break their hip. Or, they rush a fence and scare a child into traffic who gets hit by a car. A number of other scenarios where dogs are not being controlled. Or, there isn’t enough mitigated steps to avoid these inevitable, often, conflicts. So, there’s that. There’s sound. Dogs make noise, normally. And, I get tons of calls from both sides. People say, “I’ve been cited for dog barking. And, if I get three more tickets, they’re going to remove the dog as a nuisance”. Or, I get a call from people who live next to nuisance barking and it drive them insane. Every time they step outside in the back yard, the neighbor’s dog barks and they feel like they’re under surveillance. And it’s disturbing. I see those cases from both perspectives.
Karp: So, then what should people do?
Karp: My answer to that would be, learn how to reduce certain stimuli that create dogs to vocalize in a way that is either too loud, too threatening, or for too long. There are number of aspects to the noise making capacity of dogs. And, so, people need to be mindful of sound. They need to be mindful of aggression. They need to be mindful of feces odor. So, they need to clean up after their animals, so it doesn’t result in smells that may overtake or waft onto neighboring properties and are disruptive. That odor may create a scent for animal control to come on the property, or get a warrant and investigate possible neglect. That’s one big part of what I do and the laws that govern dogs.
Adam: Did you hear that kind of sigh at the end? Can we all help Mr. Karp out a bit, so he can dedicate more time to the bigger issues, like his proposed extension to Washington state’s livestock law. I’d rather he spend more time defending the animals who have been abused at the hands of guilty parties.
Adam: Do all of us a favor. If you feel a dog is lost or stray, do what you can to keep him or her out of immediate danger and check to see if they were reported as “lost” to animal control. If you have a dog, don’t leave them tethered and unsupervised in the backyard or outside of a store. Be considerate of others when you’re out in public with a dog. And, don’t let your dog be a nuisance to neighbors. Cleanup after you pet and do what you can to reduce excessive noise. If you’re running out of options, consider hiring a professional and humane dog trainer, behaviorist, or dog walker. Look for quality doggy-daycares in your area instead of letting your backyard be the daycare.
Adam: Look, I know that I’m not your dad and I’m not going to tell you how to raise your dog. But, I know this … Adam P. Karp is a warrior who belongs in battle. I’d rather see him on the front lines of the animal welfare battlefield, than dealing with irresponsible dog owners and folks who can’t accept that the number of dogs in our world are only increasing.
Adam: I chose not to share some of the more serious and heinous cases that Mr. Karp is currently involved with. Check out my research links for this episode to learn more about Karp and some of the cases and projects he is involved with. And, again, if you’re interested in the complete/unedited version of my discussion with Adam Karp, then let us know in the comment section of this episode on dogsinourworld.com. If enough people are interested, I’ll think of a way to offer the complete interview.
Adam: Also, if you’re a law student, or interested in learning more about animal law, Mr. Karp suggests that we check out aldf.org. The Animal Legal Defense Fund website is a central source for anyone who wants to learn more about animal law. Again, that’s aldf.org. You can also check out Adam Karp’s book on Amazon, which is titled Understanding Animal Law.
Adam: Of course I always ask my guests this one question. Mr. Karp shared his personal opinion of dogs …
Adam: Do you like dogs?
Karp: I do.
Adam: Why do you like them?
Karp: Um. I like the energy. I like the focus that they have. It’s interesting to watch. It’s admirable, actually. Some of the drive that they have. It’s astounding to see and the way that’s it’s implemented in a way that gives them a sense of working enjoyment, but also helps society. It’s fascinating.
Adam: How do dogs help society?
Karp: Aside from what they do for people as family members, therapy. There’s a number of studies that show that petting a dog can lower blood pressure. Dogs have an amazing ability to intuit even cancer or cancer detection. Or, epilepsy, or seizures that are about to be early onset. They can maybe smell it. That’s the science behind it. The power of scent. The power of a dog’s nose is useful of course in detecting drugs or bombs. Even, and I just wrote an article on cadavers. So, there are even cadaver detection dogs. We don’t fully know how it works. But, we know it does. The law recognizes that for various applications, such as search and rescue. Or, finding dead bodies. Or, finding inculpatory evidence.
Karp: As we wrap up, Mr. Karp reminds me that our conversation only scratched the surface of my many questions for him.
Karp: Although certainly animal law touches upon all of that. Which I never got into that with you. To basically say that animal law is basically every area of law.
Adam: Don’t worry, you’re welcome to come back and do another episode.
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