Explore Our Services Episode Summary

In this debut episode, Adam Winston explores the story of North American wolves with Erik Wilber of Wolf Haven International. We cover:

• History of wolves from pre-colonial coexistence to the 1973 Endangered Species Act
• Evolutionary theories on how dogs emerged from wolves
• Behavioral myths—why “alpha” is outdated and what dogs really need

Read on for key takeaways, resource links, and the full transcript.

Key Takeaways

• Europeans once paid bounties to exterminate wolves; legal protection under the Endangered Species Act began in 1973.
• Wolves drive trophic cascades, reshaping ecosystems—think willow regrowth and beaver habitat in Yellowstone.
• Domestication may have followed natural selection (wolves scavenging at camp edges) more than human-led breeding.
• “Alpha wolf” comes from captive-pack studies; wild packs are family units and much less aggressive.

Resources & Links

• Amazon
• YouTube
• Discord
• RSS Feed
• Google
• Instagram
• LinkedIn
• Spotify
• TikTok
• Twitch

• Wolf Haven International – Visit information & sanctuary stories
• Dr. Mech’s Alpha Wolf video
• Articles on trophic cascades in Yellowstone (linked in show notes)
• Support the show: Donate here
• Book a Free Consultation with Adam Winston

Episode Transcript Show Transcript

Introduction

With the help of some generous folks, I’m proud to finally present the first installment of what will hopefully be a monthly series. And, just so you know, links to everything we’re going to talk about in today’s show—pictures, comment sections for all of you to provide feedback, and more details—can be found at dogsinourworld.com.

This episode is titled In the Beginning, and I’ve divided it into three parts. First, I’ll share what I recently learned about the history of wolves in North America and their current status here in the United States. The second part highlights popular theories on the evolutionary relationship between the wolf and dog—how we got the dog from the wolf. The third and final part explores what wolves can teach, or not teach, us about dogs. So let’s get started.

Part 1: In the Beginning – Dogs and Wolves

Even though my passion is for the domestic dog, as a young dog welfare professional I find it nearly impossible to avoid the subject of wolves. There’s a divisive, exhausting debate among dog enthusiasts that almost always traces back to wolves—what we think we know about them and how we compare dogs to wolf packs.

If you want to see the amount of content out there, simply Google “dog dominance theory” or “dog training debate.” You’ll get around two million results—no deep digging required. But this show is our chance to get answers from the source. Instead of another dog trainer telling me about wolves, I went to someone who lives with them every day.

Erik Wilber: My name is Erik Wilber, and I am an animal caretaker at Wolf Haven International. I’ve been here ten years now. I started as a volunteer in 2005, was hired in 2006, and haven’t looked back.

Erik spends nearly 24/7 with wolves, wolfdogs, and coyotes. He feeds them, prepares their diets, repairs enclosures, transports them for veterinary care, and manages social groups and conflicts.

Erik Wilber: It’s so much—feeding the wolves, preparing their food, repairing enclosures… When an animal needs the vet, I take them. I manage who goes where and handle every conflict that arises.

First, I asked Erik about the history of wolves in North America.

Erik Wilber: Wolves were everywhere in North America and coexisted with Native Americans. When Europeans arrived, they brought negativity—bounties on wolves, habitat destruction, and poisoning campaigns. From the 1600s until the 1970s, humans waged war on wolves, paying people a nine-to-five wage to kill them.

In 1973, the Endangered Species Act made killing wolves illegal, and restoration began. At that point, wolves only remained in Alaska, Canada, and northern Minnesota.

I was born in 1979 and didn’t realize that wolf repopulation happened in my lifetime. Today, you can find wolves—and even endangered red wolves—in many U.S. states.

Erik Wilber: We now have red wolves in North Carolina, Mexican wolves in the Southwest, packs in Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Minnesota, Wisconsin, the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, Canada, and Alaska.

At Wolf Haven International, you can see gray wolves, red wolves, wolfdogs, and coyotes up close—including rare Species Survival Plan (SSP) animals.

Erik Wilber: There are two North American species: red wolves (no subspecies) and gray wolves, which have five subspecies: Arctic, tundra (Great Plains), timber, Mexican, and Arctic wolves. Mexican wolves average 60–80 lb and have a tawny coat with a black cape.

Wolf Haven only breeds the federally managed Mexican and red wolves under the SSP. All other rescues are not bred to avoid adding more captive wolves.

At one point, only seven Mexican wolf founders remained. Wolf Haven doesn’t own them; the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service does. We just provide the habitat while the recovery program manages breeding and reintroduction.

Erik Wilber: We’re very careful about wolf exposure. Education is important, but we don’t want to overexpose these animals just for visitors.

Suddenly, a distant siren triggered a chorus of howls from the wolves and wolfdogs—an eerie reminder that we were guests in their world.

Erik Wilber: (Wolf howl audio)

That haunting howl was Caedus, a wolfdog at Wolf Haven. Sadly, his longtime companion Ladyhawk passed away shortly after our visit, so this episode is dedicated to her memory.

Most residents can’t return to the wild. But what about wild wolves slowly reclaiming their historic range? What can we do to help?

Erik Wilber: Become educated. If you live in a wolf state, monitor public comment periods for environmental impact statements. Make your voice heard.

Wolves aren’t just charismatic—they’re ecosystem engineers. Their presence triggers a trophic cascade that shapes entire landscapes.

Erik Wilber: Top predators like wolves control prey populations and influence vegetation growth—willows in Yellowstone exploded once wolves returned, benefiting beavers, songbirds, and aspen stands.

Erik Wilber: You can support Wolf Haven by symbolically adopting a wolf or becoming a member to receive our quarterly Wolf Tracks magazine. Follow us on Facebook (facebook.com/wolfhavenintl) and visit wolfhaven.org to book a reservation.

Part 2: When, Where & How Did Wolves Become Dogs?

Erik Wilber: The big questions are when did wolves become dogs, where did it happen, and how? Fossils point anywhere from 36,000 to 10,000 years ago. Genetics gives clues on timing, archaeology on place, and anthropology on process—but they don’t always align.

Adam Winston: And could domestication be happening today?

Erik Wilber: Possibly—some studies suggest multiple domestication events that later merged.

Adam Winston: What about the “how”?

Erik Wilber: Two main theories: artificial selection—humans capturing wolf pups and breeding them—or natural selection—wolves scavenging near human camps, with the tamest surviving and breeding among themselves, eventually becoming dogs.

I lean toward natural selection. Early hunter-gatherers likely didn’t have the resources to raise wolves generation after generation. It makes more sense that wolves domesticated themselves on the fringes of human settlements.

Erik Wilber: Some scientists point to village or pariah dogs—feral dogs living beside humans without being pets. They may mirror that early scavenger niche and have been easier to domesticate than wild wolf pups.

Genetics is a “tomato soup” of mixed wolf and dog DNA—hard to tease apart. Ironically, humans share over 80% of our genes with dogs; chimpanzees share 96–98% with us.

Next, we’ll explore what wolves truly teach us about dogs in our world.

Part 3: What Wolves Can Teach (or Not Teach) Us About Dogs

Many people cling to wolf-derived terms like “alpha,” “pack leader,” and “top dog” when training a house pet—often without realizing these ideas come from captive-pack studies, not wild behavior.

Erik Wilber: Early wolf researchers studied captive packs and coined “alpha” to describe fighting for dominance. But wild packs function as family units—breeding pairs and their offspring.

Adam Winston: So “alpha” implies constant competition that doesn’t exist in the wild.

Erik Wilber: In the wild, wolves disperse once mature, forming new packs. Captive wolves can’t disperse, so they compete for position. Dr. Mech, the researcher who popularized “alpha,” now recommends “breeding pair” or “parents” instead.

Applying “alpha wolf” rules to pet dogs can be misleading. Dogs have evolved for thousands of generations and don’t think or behave like wolves today.

Erik Wilber: I’ve bonded with wolves, but it’s not like my relationship with a dog. Wolves are independent, aloof—they come to me for food, then return to their routines.

Researchers at Wolf Park in Indiana socialize wolf pups intensively—taking ten- to fourteen-day-old pups and raising them around humans for three months to study more “natural” wolf behavior. Even they don’t call themselves “pack members” to the wolves.

Erik Wilber: They see people as separate. Even highly human-socialized wolves don’t treat humans like pack members.

Wolf behaviors sometimes appear “watered down” in dogs—play bows, social signals—but dogs have a world of their own.

Erik Wilber: For multi-dog households, you may see a loose pecking order, but it varies by breed, individual temperament, and context. Dogs are incredibly diverse.

Erik Wilber: Trying to force dogs into wolf roles can do them a disservice. Dogs deserve study on their own terms.

That wraps our first episode. We’ve covered the history and restoration of North American wolves, evolutionary theories on dog domestication, and why “alpha” belongs in the past. Thank you to Wolf Haven International for their support—and to our donors Susan in Washington and Andrew in Philadelphia for funding the howl recording.

Next month: a conversation with Mark Derr on the history of dogs in North America, or maybe a philosophical deep dive with Steven Hales. Either way, we’re only just beginning. Tell your friends about Dogs in Our World, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, and I’ll talk to you soon.

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