Welcome my friends to season 3 of the Determined to Dance podcast. My prayer is that you’ll be encouraged to persevere daily in our chaotic world.

Show Notes: An Interview with Jeff Walling Part 2

Today I’m honored to share part two of my interview with Jeff Walling: author, speaker, and the Director of the Youth Leadership Initiative at Pepperdine University. We’ve spent this season learning from his wonderful book, Daring to Dance with God. Now on to part two…

Jennifer: One thing I wondered about because it’s something as a fiction writer people ask me is what is your favorite quote in the book? And I know there are probably tons of them. But is there one that really stands out?

Jeff: I may have to get back to you on this. That’s kind of a frightening thing after thinking back all those years. I know there are some quotes in that passage on letting the Lord lead, you know, the importance of doing that and how control is the hardest thing for us to let go of.

Ideas, yeah. Quotes? As a writer, you’re just busy trying to get it from your brain out through your fingertips. You challenge me to go back and say is there a passage where I say, “Oh, God, you did a good job on that one.” I’ll get back to you.

Jennifer: My favorite story in the book is the one about you manning the record player. That one stood out to me more than any of them.

Jeff: Yeah, a few years ago, quite a while now, I found a time in my life where I was burned out, tired of marching, I knew it was because I was tripping over stuff I shouldn’t be tripping over. And I remember going to a therapist, a Christian therapist, and telling him about that experience and about the record player. And he gave me a new perspective. He said, “Wow. That was your way of hiding and coping. That was your way of making a joke out of it. Let’s somehow make this fun.

And you talk about a quote, he said, “Jeff, you like many people don’t enjoy sitting in pain.” We learn so much more, I know this, through pain than we ever do through pleasure. And yet we try to eradicate pain just as quickly as we can. I have probably eight different kinds of Advil or Tylenol or aspirin in my cabinet because why should we hurt, even for a moment? Spiritually, oh my goodness, to be able to just listen to the voice of God in the pain.

That’s the only reason that the prodigal son got home. If he had managed to make himself some kind of pig slop taco, he’d have stayed where he was. But the pain, the agony of man, this is not what God wants for me is what helped him make the turn.

Jennifer: I totally agree. It seems like, especially when I’m frustrated when I finally get to that point of saying, “Okay, God. I don’t know what I’m supposed to be doing here. He says, “Okay. I’ve been waiting for you to say that. Now let me tell you what you’re supposed to be doing here.” Pain, aggravation, frustration—all of it brings me to that point.

Jeff: Amen. We need to be like the woman who had spent all her money on the cures, right? Who was still bleeding. Who’d gone on the misery-go-round over and over and over again, and finally, she was willing not only to go out in public in a crowd—where she wasn’t supposed to be—but to just reach out and touch the hem of his garment. I love that picture. I hope your listeners will hear the voice of God saying, “Don’t be ashamed. You might not dance like somebody else, and somebody may look at you like you’re goofy but just look into my eyes and dance with Me. Let me guide you in celebrating life, using your gifts and skills even when dancing through the pain.”

Jennifer: That was a good chapter. And we have about six or seven more episodes on the podcast. I plan on doing some filling in and at the end, I’m going to deal with the last chapter. We’ve already been touching on a lot of trust and faithfulness. This week’s podcast was on the end. The end time. Getting ready to meet our Savior, tying on to where I’m going.