In the podcast episode featuring Lord Peter Hain, the discussion revolves around the complexities of leadership in a multipolar world, particularly in the context of South Africa's historical and contemporary challenges. Hain's insights draw from his experiences as the child of anti-apartheid activists and his subsequent political career, emphasising the importance of integrity, justice, and the fight against corruption.

Historical Context and Personal Experience

Hain recounts his upbringing in Pretoria during the apartheid era, where his parents were actively involved in anti-apartheid activism. This background instilled in him a deep appreciation for justice and human rights, which has shaped his political career. He highlights the absurdities and brutalities of apartheid, illustrating how these experiences have influenced his commitment to fighting for justice, both in South Africa and globally.

His activism as a teenager, particularly in organising protests against all-white South African sports tours, positioned him as a significant figure in the international sports boycott against apartheid. This early engagement in activism laid the groundwork for his later political endeavours, where he continued to advocate for justice and accountability.

Combating Corruption

A significant theme in Hain's narrative is the ongoing struggle against corruption, particularly in South Africa under former President Jacob Zuma. He discusses how he was called upon by members of the African National Congress (ANC) to expose the corruption that had infiltrated the party and the government. Using parliamentary privilege, he was able to reveal the extensive money laundering and corruption linked to Zuma and the Gupta family, which had devastating effects on the country.

Hain emphasises that corruption is not an isolated issue but a global problem that requires international cooperation to address. He points out that the financial systems in countries like the UK and the US are complicit in facilitating corruption through lax regulations and the existence of offshore tax havens. This complicity underscores the need for a concerted effort to combat corruption on a global scale, as it undermines the integrity of nations and their leadership.

The Role of South Africa in the Global Order

In the context of a multipolar world, Hain reflects on South Africa's position and its moral capital. He argues that while South Africa once stood as a global hero under Nelson Mandela, it has since fallen to a "near global zero" due to corruption and mismanagement. The country's current leadership faces the challenge of restoring its reputation and aligning itself with the values of justice and human rights that Mandela championed.

Hain critiques South Africa's foreign policy, particularly its non-alignment stance, which he believes has led to a compromise of its integrity. He urges the country to adopt a genuinely non-aligned position that does not favour authoritarian regimes, such as Russia, while also holding the global North accountable for its own failures in promoting democracy and human rights.

Bridging Divides and Ensuring Equality

The podcast also touches on the broader implications of inequality and the rise of populism, as highlighted by George Monbiot. Hain agrees that the growing divide between the rich and the poor has fuelled political instability and the rise of right-wing populists. He advocates for policies that address the root causes of disaffection, emphasising the need for greater equality and investment in public services.

Conclusion

Lord Peter Hain's insights in this podcast episode provide a nuanced understanding of leadership in a multipolar world. His experiences and reflections highlight the interconnectedness of personal history, systemic corruption, and the need for moral integrity in governance. As nations navigate the complexities of global politics, the lessons drawn from South Africa's past and present can serve as a guide for fostering effective leadership that prioritises justice, equality, and the well-being of all citizens.

Timestamps:

00:00:00 - Introduction and Guest Overview

00:01:17 - Early Life and Anti-Apartheid Activism

00:06:00 - Political Career and Commitment to Justice

00:10:00 - Exposing Corruption in South Africa

00:16:00 - Challenges in Combating Global Corruption

00:20:00 - South Africa's Path to Mandela's Vision

00:24:00 - South Africa's Moral Leadership and Global Position

00:27:00 - Impact of Trump's Election on the Podcast Focus

00:28:00 - Dr Nick Westcott's Questions on Africa's Interests

00:34:00 - Dr Nic Cheeseman's Question on Middle Powers

00:36:00 - Lord Alf Dubs' Questions on EU-UK Relations and Refugees

00:42:00 - George Monbiot's Perspective on Right-Wing Populism

00:48:00 - Where to Find "The Pretoria Boy"

00:49:00 - Conclusion and Upcoming Series Announcement

Books Mentioned in the Podcast Episode:

1. The Pretoria Boy: The Story of South Africa’s ‘Public Enemy Number One’ (Icon Books, August 2021). By Peter Hain.

2. Imperialism and Development: The East African Groundnut Scheme and Its Legacy (James Currey, 2020). By Nick Westcott.

3. The Rise of Authoritarian Middle-Powers and What It Means for World Politics (Cambridge University Press, 2025). By Nic Cheeseman and Marie-Eve Desrosiers

4. Recently Released: Liberation and Corruption: Why Freedom Movements Fail (Policy Press, October 28, 2025). By Peter Hain.

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