As promised, we present the second and final part of our series on the book Catastrophism: The Apocalyptic Politics of Collapse and Rebirth. On this part we have a dialogue with Sasha Lilley and James Davis. Sasha’s contribution to the book is entitled “Great Chaos Under Heaven: Catastrophism and the Left†and James’s piece is entitled “At War with the Future: Catastrophism and the Rightâ€. During this interview we discuss the various tendencies on the left and the right toward the ideology of Catastrophism, imperialism, immigration, the state and what it would take to move past the despair inherent in Catastrophism to overturn oppressive realities.

The music featured in this episode is “Get Educated†by Akala from his album Knowledge is Power - Mixtape, Vol. 1, “Life’s a Hustle†by Logic & Last Resort from their album True Talk (The Instrumentals), “False Evidence Appearing Real (F.E.A.R)†by Cyclonious from his album F.E.A.R. (False Evidence Appearing Real), and “The 4th Branch†by Immortal Technique from his album Revolutionary Vol. 2.