Join us as we delve into the captivating story of Gerard Craft, renowned chef, and entrepreneur, as he shares his remarkable journey from a troubled childhood to becoming a highly successful chef and business owner. In this thought-provoking podcast episode, Craft opens up about his early passion for photography, his decision to pursue a culinary career, and the challenges he faced along the way. Filmed at the hidden speakeasy, NOTA, located at The Foundry in St. Louis, this episode offers a unique backdrop for Craft’s inspiring insights. Discover the key values, training methods, and empowering leadership strategies that Craft implemented to create a positive company culture in his own restaurant. Gain valuable insights into the importance of embracing change, building a strong foundation in business, and the power of continuous learning. Craft’s inspiring experiences will leave you motivated to embrace failure as an opportunity for growth and to lead with honesty and feedback. Don’t miss this engaging conversation that explores leadership, culture, and the transformative power of following your passion, all set against the backdrop of the hidden speakeasy, NOTA, at The Foundry in St. Louis.

Check out the video interview here!

TRANSCRIPTION

00:00:13.000 –> 00:00:15.000
I am your host,

00:00:15.000 –> 00:00:18.000
Brett Gilliland, and today I’ve got Gerard Craft

00:00:18.000 –> 00:00:19.000
with me Gerard what’s going on, my man.

00:00:19.000 –> 00:00:22.000
How are you? I’m great. Thanks for having

00:00:22.000 –> 00:00:23.000
me. You probably don’t know this because I

00:00:23.000 –> 00:00:24.000
don’t even know if you check your own

00:00:24.000 –> 00:00:27.000
Instagram messages, but I sent you a message

00:00:27.000 –> 00:00:28.000
in April two thousand eighteen.

00:00:28.000 –> 00:00:30.000
Really? I did. That’s Craft. And now here

00:00:30.000 –> 00:00:33.000
we are. No. January of two thousand twenty

00:00:33.000 –> 00:00:33.000
four.

00:00:34.000 –> 00:00:35.000
That’s alright, man. You’re a busy guy. I’ve

00:00:35.000 –> 00:00:38.000
been good at checking my, like, normal message

00:00:38.000 –> 00:00:40.000
you know, my emails, my texts.

00:00:41.000 –> 00:00:43.000
I like to share those messages because it’s

00:00:43.000 –> 00:00:45.000
life’s about persistency as you know. You guys

00:00:45.000 –> 00:00:48.000
stay pleasantly persistent, but our mutual friend, Katie,

00:00:48.000 –> 00:00:50.000
call your introduce to two of us and

00:00:50.000 –> 00:00:51.000
thank you, Katie, for sure.

00:00:52.000 –> 00:00:53.000
Why don’t you explain to people that are

00:00:53.000 –> 00:00:55.000
watching this right now? Where are we at

00:00:55.000 –> 00:00:55.000
right

00:00:55.000 –> 00:00:58.000
so we are at Noda, which stands for.

00:00:58.000 –> 00:01:00.000
None of the above. It’s our speakeasy

00:01:01.000 –> 00:01:03.000
here at the city foundry, but we’re kind

00:01:03.000 –> 00:01:06.000
of through some tunnels in the basement Yeah.

00:01:07.000 –> 00:01:09.000
Hidden away. It’s amazing. Absolutely amazing. Do we

00:01:09.000 –> 00:01:11.000
share how we get down here or is

00:01:11.000 –> 00:01:12.000
that kind of a secret?

00:01:12.000 –> 00:01:14.000
You can yeah. I mean, there’s a there’s

00:01:14.000 –> 00:01:17.000
a door up at the top on foundry

00:01:17.000 –> 00:01:18.000
Way with,

00:01:18.000 –> 00:01:20.000
a red light Gilliland

00:01:20.000 –> 00:01:22.000
if that light is on,

00:01:22.000 –> 00:01:23.000
then you can pop in and, you know,

00:01:23.000 –> 00:01:24.000
hopefully we have some some space.

00:01:28.000 –> 00:01:29.000
I love it. And if it’s not on,

00:01:29.000 –> 00:01:31.000
it means you’re just not open, or does

00:01:31.000 –> 00:01:32.000
it means it’s full? Yeah. It means we’re

00:01:32.000 –> 00:01:34.000
not open. Okay. Yeah. Alright. Well, hey, man.

00:01:34.000 –> 00:01:36.000
Let’s dive in if we can and, get

00:01:36.000 –> 00:01:38.000
listeners a little lay of the land. I

00:01:38.000 –> 00:01:39.000
told you I’d start with kinda what’s your

00:01:39.000 –> 00:01:41.000
backstory of what’s made you the man you

00:01:41.000 –> 00:01:42.000
are today.

00:01:42.000 –> 00:01:43.000
Yeah. So,

00:01:44.000 –> 00:01:46.000
you know, grew up in Washington, DC.

00:01:47.000 –> 00:01:47.000
And,

00:01:50.000 –> 00:01:51.000
you know, got into

00:01:52.000 –> 00:01:54.000
far too much trouble as a kid. And

00:01:54.000 –> 00:01:55.000
ended up,

00:01:57.000 –> 00:02:00.000
finishing school, I should say, out in, Northern

00:02:00.000 –> 00:02:01.000
Idaho

00:02:01.000 –> 00:02:02.000
at a,

00:02:03.000 –> 00:02:03.000
at,

00:02:04.000 –> 00:02:05.000
school for, you know,

00:02:06.000 –> 00:02:07.000
troubled kids.

00:02:07.000 –> 00:02:10.000
And when I was there, I got to

00:02:10.000 –> 00:02:11.000
do

00:02:12.000 –> 00:02:13.000
sort of an apprenticeship

00:02:13.000 –> 00:02:15.000
with a photographer. And so I started getting

00:02:15.000 –> 00:02:18.000
really into snowboard photography. We were up in

00:02:18.000 –> 00:02:20.000
the mountains, so it was kinda perfect for

00:02:20.000 –> 00:02:22.000
all of that. I had always been interested

00:02:22.000 –> 00:02:24.000
in photography and done a lot,

00:02:25.000 –> 00:02:27.000
growing up. And so got to really, you

00:02:27.000 –> 00:02:29.000
know, see kind of the professional side of

00:02:29.000 –> 00:02:32.000
it. And, you know, we were doing everything

00:02:32.000 –> 00:02:34.000
from skiing and snowboarding

00:02:34.000 –> 00:02:35.000
to wake boarding,

00:02:36.000 –> 00:02:38.000
on skateboarding in in the summer.

00:02:38.000 –> 00:02:41.000
And then I moved to Salt Lake City

00:02:41.000 –> 00:02:44.000
after that school to go to Gilliland

00:02:44.000 –> 00:02:46.000
to continue my photography.

00:02:46.000 –> 00:02:48.000
And while I was there, I ended up

00:02:48.000 –> 00:02:50.000
dropping out of college. And

00:02:52.000 –> 00:02:54.000
you see a pattern of school not working

00:02:54.000 –> 00:02:55.000
out for me.

00:02:56.000 –> 00:02:57.000
But I

00:02:58.000 –> 00:02:59.000
took a job

00:02:59.000 –> 00:03:01.000
just kind of in the morning, I took

00:03:01.000 –> 00:03:03.000
a job washing cars.

00:03:03.000 –> 00:03:05.000
And at night, I took a job washing

00:03:05.000 –> 00:03:07.000
dishes. And, you know, still was doing my

00:03:07.000 –> 00:03:09.000
photography. Gilliland

00:03:09.000 –> 00:03:12.000
everything, but the photography wasn’t really paying any

00:03:12.000 –> 00:03:15.000
money. It was, you know. Right. Right. Yeah.

00:03:15.000 –> 00:03:17.000
It was like a trade stuff trying to

00:03:17.000 –> 00:03:19.000
get in the door with different professional hot,

00:03:19.000 –> 00:03:22.000
snowboarders and stuff like that. But

00:03:22.000 –> 00:03:24.000
really fell in love with the kitchen when

00:03:24.000 –> 00:03:26.000
I was in there and a

00:03:27.000 –> 00:03:28.000
career advisor

00:03:29.000 –> 00:03:31.000
told me I should think about, going to

00:03:31.000 –> 00:03:32.000
culinary school.

00:03:32.000 –> 00:03:33.000
And so I want to,

00:03:34.000 –> 00:03:37.000
Salt Lake City Community College. Mhmm. And

00:03:38.000 –> 00:03:41.000
studied culinary arts while I was still kind

00:03:41.000 –> 00:03:41.000
of working

00:03:42.000 –> 00:03:44.000
at this this place called Fats Grill. I

00:03:44.000 –> 00:03:45.000
mean,

00:03:45.000 –> 00:03:46.000
super high end luxury.

00:03:48.000 –> 00:03:51.000
Nothing like Nota. This was Although it was

00:03:51.000 –> 00:03:52.000
a very clean,

00:03:54.000 –> 00:03:56.000
you know, bar with pool hole,

00:03:57.000 –> 00:03:59.000
you know, pool Gilliland,

00:04:00.000 –> 00:04:02.000
But but it was it was definitely not

00:04:02.000 –> 00:04:05.000
a a real refined spot. Right. And didn’t

00:04:05.000 –> 00:04:06.000
you go on to work at one of

00:04:06.000 –> 00:04:08.000
the best restaurants in San Fran and some

00:04:08.000 –> 00:04:10.000
other places around the country? I did not

00:04:10.000 –> 00:04:13.000
go to San Francisco. So I, from there,

00:04:13.000 –> 00:04:14.000
I actually went in,

00:04:15.000 –> 00:04:17.000
did a work study at the Ritz in

00:04:17.000 –> 00:04:17.000
Paris

00:04:18.000 –> 00:04:18.000
and,

00:04:20.000 –> 00:04:23.000
went out to Los Angeles to the,

00:04:23.000 –> 00:04:26.000
Chateau Mamont Hotel. That’s what I was thinking

00:04:26.000 –> 00:04:26.000
about. Yeah.

00:04:27.000 –> 00:04:28.000
And so I was a sous chef out

00:04:28.000 –> 00:04:29.000
at the Chateau Marmont,

00:04:31.000 –> 00:04:32.000
and

00:04:32.000 –> 00:04:34.000
stashed at a place in New Jersey for

00:04:34.000 –> 00:04:37.000
a while called Gilliland Inn which was kind

00:04:37.000 –> 00:04:39.000
of on a five acre organic,

00:04:41.000 –> 00:04:41.000
farm

00:04:42.000 –> 00:04:42.000
and,

00:04:43.000 –> 00:04:46.000
just outside of New York City. So It

00:04:46.000 –> 00:04:47.000
was a Relay Chateau property,

00:04:48.000 –> 00:04:50.000
all tasting menus.

00:04:50.000 –> 00:04:52.000
And I think that was about the the

00:04:52.000 –> 00:04:53.000
scariest place I ever

00:04:54.000 –> 00:04:54.000
ever worked.

00:04:56.000 –> 00:04:58.000
But it was amazing. It was just a

00:04:58.000 –> 00:04:59.000
very intense,

00:04:59.000 –> 00:05:00.000
atmosphere.

00:05:01.000 –> 00:05:03.000
And, you know, very driven people you know,

00:05:03.000 –> 00:05:05.000
all the people that worked there are all,

00:05:05.000 –> 00:05:07.000
you know, super successful today. You know, so

00:05:07.000 –> 00:05:10.000
I was I was definitely in over my

00:05:10.000 –> 00:05:11.000
head, but, you know, in the best kind

00:05:11.000 –> 00:05:12.000
of way. Right?

00:05:13.000 –> 00:05:14.000
So did you look to those guys and

00:05:14.000 –> 00:05:17.000
gals for leadership and advice, or was it

00:05:17.000 –> 00:05:18.000
cut throat and it didn’t work that way?

00:05:18.000 –> 00:05:20.000
Like, what what was the environment like in

00:05:20.000 –> 00:05:21.000
a restaurant like that? Yeah. I mean, they

00:05:21.000 –> 00:05:23.000
they were all, like, pretty cutthroat, but it

00:05:23.000 –> 00:05:24.000
was, you know,

00:05:25.000 –> 00:05:28.000
you know, everybody was helpful. And,

00:05:28.000 –> 00:05:30.000
as long as you were trying and and

00:05:30.000 –> 00:05:31.000
pushing and,

00:05:32.000 –> 00:05:34.000
you know, so everywhere you went, you were

00:05:34.000 –> 00:05:36.000
just trying to kind of learn as much

00:05:36.000 –> 00:05:38.000
as as humanly possible.

00:05:39.000 –> 00:05:40.000
So I’m a go back to when you

00:05:40.000 –> 00:05:40.000
went,

00:05:41.000 –> 00:05:42.000
out from from the East Coast to the

00:05:42.000 –> 00:05:44.000
West Coast to finish school. Like, what was

00:05:44.000 –> 00:05:46.000
it about you or maybe your upbringing? I

00:05:46.000 –> 00:05:48.000
don’t know what it is, but my fascinated

00:05:48.000 –> 00:05:50.000
by guys, that and guys and gals that

00:05:50.000 –> 00:05:52.000
that do something like that and have a

00:05:52.000 –> 00:05:55.000
pretty dramatic, you know, event happen. And then

00:05:55.000 –> 00:05:57.000
all of a sudden, now you fast where

00:05:57.000 –> 00:05:59.000
you’re at in two thousand twenty four. Right?

00:05:59.000 –> 00:06:00.000
Like, what do you think it was specifically

00:06:00.000 –> 00:06:02.000
about you that made you

00:06:02.000 –> 00:06:04.000
go a different route than maybe you could

00:06:04.000 –> 00:06:05.000
have gone?

00:06:06.000 –> 00:06:07.000
I don’t know. You know, I think I’ve

00:06:07.000 –> 00:06:09.000
always been, you know, a fan of the

00:06:09.000 –> 00:06:11.000
road less traveled. And,

00:06:12.000 –> 00:06:14.000
and I don’t know if that made all

00:06:14.000 –> 00:06:15.000
the difference. You know, but,

00:06:17.000 –> 00:06:19.000
I’ve I’ve definitely always appreciated

00:06:19.000 –> 00:06:20.000
the struggle.

00:06:21.000 –> 00:06:23.000
And I I don’t know why that is

00:06:23.000 –> 00:06:26.000
because there’s probably a horrible trait. Probably something

00:06:26.000 –> 00:06:28.000
I should talk to a therapist about, but,

00:06:29.000 –> 00:06:30.000
but I, you know, I always wanted to,

00:06:30.000 –> 00:06:33.000
you know, do things on my own and,

00:06:34.000 –> 00:06:36.000
you know, do things the hard way for

00:06:36.000 –> 00:06:37.000
some reason.

00:06:37.000 –> 00:06:38.000
And

00:06:38.000 –> 00:06:40.000
I think when I was looking to finally

00:06:40.000 –> 00:06:41.000
open a restaurant,

00:06:42.000 –> 00:06:43.000
I didn’t wanna go back. You know, my

00:06:43.000 –> 00:06:45.000
old family’s from New York Gilliland

00:06:46.000 –> 00:06:46.000
DC,

00:06:46.000 –> 00:06:48.000
and I didn’t wanna go back there and

00:06:48.000 –> 00:06:50.000
kind of fail in front of everybody. I

00:06:50.000 –> 00:06:53.000
kinda wanted to, you know, branch out on

00:06:53.000 –> 00:06:54.000
my own, do my own thing.

00:06:55.000 –> 00:06:58.000
And again, you know, I it worked out

00:06:58.000 –> 00:07:00.000
somehow, but god,

00:07:00.000 –> 00:07:02.000
probably not the smartest way. You know, I

00:07:02.000 –> 00:07:05.000
could have opened in New York City around

00:07:05.000 –> 00:07:06.000
family. And,

00:07:07.000 –> 00:07:10.000
yeah, you know, had all sorts of family

00:07:10.000 –> 00:07:13.000
friends coming in. But, thankfully, Saint Louis really

00:07:13.000 –> 00:07:15.000
welcomed me. So And talk about that. So

00:07:15.000 –> 00:07:17.000
what brought you to Saint Louis? I read

00:07:17.000 –> 00:07:19.000
that story. I think that’s pretty cool. Yeah.

00:07:19.000 –> 00:07:21.000
I mean, it was, again, I was twenty

00:07:21.000 –> 00:07:22.000
five years old. So,

00:07:23.000 –> 00:07:25.000
I look at twenty five year olds now,

00:07:25.000 –> 00:07:27.000
and I’m, like, oh my god. What the

00:07:27.000 –> 00:07:28.000
hell is that? Like, I was, like, twenty

00:07:28.000 –> 00:07:29.000
five.

00:07:30.000 –> 00:07:33.000
You know, so, you know, wasn’t always thinking

00:07:34.000 –> 00:07:37.000
entirely clearly, but, you know, I, I knew

00:07:37.000 –> 00:07:39.000
I wanted to do something on my own.

00:07:39.000 –> 00:07:40.000
I wanted to get out. And,

00:07:41.000 –> 00:07:43.000
you know, I had seen some stuff, and

00:07:43.000 –> 00:07:46.000
I think, like, Bonapati magazine or something like

00:07:46.000 –> 00:07:48.000
that about Saint Lewis, and I think an

00:07:48.000 –> 00:07:50.000
American place had just opened,

00:07:51.000 –> 00:07:53.000
Monarch restaurant was

00:07:53.000 –> 00:07:56.000
was doing really Brett. And I just read

00:07:56.000 –> 00:07:59.000
about Kevin Nash in buying Sydney Brett Craft,

00:07:59.000 –> 00:08:01.000
and he had just come from, like,

00:08:02.000 –> 00:08:03.000
Martine Barastaghi

00:08:03.000 –> 00:08:06.000
in Spain and Daniel Gilliland

00:08:06.000 –> 00:08:07.000
New York. And so

00:08:08.000 –> 00:08:09.000
I was like, oh, that’s kind of a

00:08:09.000 –> 00:08:11.000
cool Gilliland now I used to have a

00:08:11.000 –> 00:08:13.000
weird hobby of

00:08:13.000 –> 00:08:15.000
I still have a weird hobby of staying

00:08:15.000 –> 00:08:17.000
up late and looking at real estate.

00:08:17.000 –> 00:08:18.000
And,

00:08:19.000 –> 00:08:21.000
just kind of started looking at real estate

00:08:21.000 –> 00:08:21.000
in

00:08:22.000 –> 00:08:25.000
Saint Louis and stumbled upon this ad that

00:08:25.000 –> 00:08:28.000
was, wine bar for sale, which

00:08:29.000 –> 00:08:31.000
looking back at niche, when niche was not

00:08:31.000 –> 00:08:33.000
at, it was dirt floors, hole in the

00:08:33.000 –> 00:08:34.000
ground, no

00:08:34.000 –> 00:08:35.000
electricity.

00:08:35.000 –> 00:08:37.000
I was like, how was this a wine

00:08:37.000 –> 00:08:38.000
bar? Right.

00:08:39.000 –> 00:08:42.000
But, yeah, then I, I just kind of

00:08:42.000 –> 00:08:45.000
came here on, New Year’s Day,

00:08:47.000 –> 00:08:47.000
in

00:08:48.000 –> 00:08:51.000
two thousand five. And I I literally signed

00:08:51.000 –> 00:08:54.000
it on the spot. And I remember my

00:08:54.000 –> 00:08:55.000
brother, like, do you have a lawyer?

00:08:56.000 –> 00:08:57.000
Are you what are you doing? What’s a

00:08:57.000 –> 00:08:59.000
lawyer? How are you looking for?

00:09:00.000 –> 00:09:00.000
So,

00:09:01.000 –> 00:09:02.000
thankfully, I had my brother,

00:09:03.000 –> 00:09:05.000
investing and on my side because he was

00:09:05.000 –> 00:09:07.000
able to at least he local at all?

00:09:07.000 –> 00:09:09.000
Dear me. No. My brother lives in London.

00:09:09.000 –> 00:09:10.000
Okay. But he was at least able to

00:09:11.000 –> 00:09:13.000
to, you know, help me make some,

00:09:14.000 –> 00:09:17.000
my brother’s like you. He’s in finance. Okay.

00:09:17.000 –> 00:09:19.000
So That’s funny. Yeah. Yeah. So what I

00:09:19.000 –> 00:09:20.000
mean, when you think about that that move,

00:09:20.000 –> 00:09:23.000
did you did you picture success in your

00:09:23.000 –> 00:09:25.000
or was that just something you’re like, this

00:09:25.000 –> 00:09:26.000
is my passion. I’m gonna follow it, and

00:09:26.000 –> 00:09:28.000
then it’s successes happen? Like, what, like, what

00:09:28.000 –> 00:09:30.000
was it like if you look back to

00:09:30.000 –> 00:09:31.000
the twenty five year old Gerard? I think

00:09:31.000 –> 00:09:33.000
I always envisioned six success, but I think,

00:09:33.000 –> 00:09:34.000
you know,

00:09:34.000 –> 00:09:36.000
that vision of success is

00:09:37.000 –> 00:09:38.000
is continually

00:09:38.000 –> 00:09:40.000
changing. Right? You know, I think my my

00:09:40.000 –> 00:09:43.000
first vision of success was know, a successful

00:09:43.000 –> 00:09:45.000
neighborhood restaurant. And,

00:09:45.000 –> 00:09:47.000
you know, I had been eating a lot

00:09:47.000 –> 00:09:49.000
at a restaurant called prune in New York

00:09:49.000 –> 00:09:50.000
Gilliland

00:09:50.000 –> 00:09:52.000
there was a place called the tasting room

00:09:52.000 –> 00:09:54.000
in New York, and these were kinda like

00:09:54.000 –> 00:09:57.000
very small, but but kind of progressive and

00:09:57.000 –> 00:09:58.000
different restaurants.

00:09:59.000 –> 00:10:01.000
And and that’s kind of the between that

00:10:01.000 –> 00:10:03.000
and kind of what was going on in

00:10:03.000 –> 00:10:06.000
some of the small restaurants in Paris at

00:10:06.000 –> 00:10:06.000
the time,

00:10:07.000 –> 00:10:07.000
And,

00:10:08.000 –> 00:10:10.000
in Spain, you know, that’s kind of where

00:10:10.000 –> 00:10:12.000
I was where I was looking to. I

00:10:12.000 –> 00:10:15.000
think what happened was a lot different.

00:10:15.000 –> 00:10:17.000
And, you know, I think,

00:10:18.000 –> 00:10:20.000
I I didn’t quite understand. I think the

00:10:20.000 –> 00:10:23.000
demographics that I was gonna be serving

00:10:23.000 –> 00:10:25.000
when when we opened these. I thought I

00:10:25.000 –> 00:10:27.000
thought we were gonna be serving a lot

00:10:27.000 –> 00:10:28.000
of younger people,

00:10:28.000 –> 00:10:29.000
you know,

00:10:29.000 –> 00:10:30.000
young professionals Gilliland

00:10:31.000 –> 00:10:32.000
you go to New York. What what do

00:10:32.000 –> 00:10:35.000
you see in HIP new restaurant. And I

00:10:35.000 –> 00:10:37.000
think I actually got a much older client,

00:10:37.000 –> 00:10:38.000
though, coming from,

00:10:39.000 –> 00:10:40.000
ledoux

00:10:40.000 –> 00:10:42.000
and, you know, the suburbs.

00:10:42.000 –> 00:10:46.000
And and not entirely from my area. And

00:10:46.000 –> 00:10:46.000
and

00:10:47.000 –> 00:10:49.000
and I think there there was definitely a

00:10:49.000 –> 00:10:51.000
little bit of a of a struggle in

00:10:52.000 –> 00:10:54.000
in what people wanted out of us and

00:10:54.000 –> 00:10:56.000
what we were actually doing. Yeah. Isn’t it

00:10:56.000 –> 00:10:57.000
funny when you think you Brett this business

00:10:57.000 –> 00:10:59.000
plan and and what’s you think’s gonna happen

00:10:59.000 –> 00:11:02.000
that it rarely ever works that way. Yeah.

00:11:02.000 –> 00:11:04.000
So we were successful. Yeah. But

00:11:05.000 –> 00:11:07.000
not in the way that we had planned

00:11:07.000 –> 00:11:10.000
on being successful. What do you think, being

00:11:10.000 –> 00:11:12.000
the entrepreneur that you are in places like

00:11:12.000 –> 00:11:14.000
this, which is amazing. I absolutely love this.

00:11:14.000 –> 00:11:15.000
And the walk down here is one of

00:11:15.000 –> 00:11:17.000
the coolest things I’ve ever seen. I’m not

00:11:17.000 –> 00:11:18.000
just saying that.

00:11:18.000 –> 00:11:21.000
From an entrepreneurial standpoint, what what do you

00:11:21.000 –> 00:11:22.000
think that you can share from a restaurant

00:11:23.000 –> 00:11:24.000
world to the to the business person or

00:11:24.000 –> 00:11:26.000
the, you know, the lawyer that whoever’s watching

00:11:26.000 –> 00:11:28.000
this right now? What do you see the

00:11:28.000 –> 00:11:30.000
similarities that can be learned from your world

00:11:30.000 –> 00:11:32.000
into the business world?

00:11:32.000 –> 00:11:34.000
Oh my god. I mean, you know, we

00:11:34.000 –> 00:11:35.000
are in the business world. So,

00:11:36.000 –> 00:11:38.000
you know, I think it’s all

00:11:38.000 –> 00:11:39.000
applicable,

00:11:39.000 –> 00:11:41.000
really, you know, and I think,

00:11:42.000 –> 00:11:45.000
flip that around a bit. I have learned

00:11:45.000 –> 00:11:48.000
a lot from the quote unquote business world.

00:11:48.000 –> 00:11:51.000
And I think it was in two thousand

00:11:52.000 –> 00:11:52.000
and twelve.

00:11:53.000 –> 00:11:55.000
We were opening pasteria,

00:11:56.000 –> 00:11:57.000
which was our fourth restaurant

00:11:58.000 –> 00:11:59.000
at the time, and

00:12:00.000 –> 00:12:02.000
I was really, really struggling.

00:12:03.000 –> 00:12:05.000
And I was struggling to to really manage

00:12:05.000 –> 00:12:08.000
them all. They were all doing really well.

00:12:09.000 –> 00:12:11.000
But all of a sudden I was managing

00:12:11.000 –> 00:12:11.000
four places

00:12:12.000 –> 00:12:14.000
and figured out I couldn’t really micromanage

00:12:15.000 –> 00:12:18.000
four places. Yep. And and I didn’t quite

00:12:18.000 –> 00:12:19.000
see it like that. I just at the

00:12:19.000 –> 00:12:21.000
time saw it is, everybody sucked.

00:12:23.000 –> 00:12:26.000
And why was everybody sucking and and not

00:12:26.000 –> 00:12:28.000
doing what they were supposed to do? And,

00:12:28.000 –> 00:12:29.000
you know,

00:12:29.000 –> 00:12:30.000
you know,

00:12:30.000 –> 00:12:32.000
after a little bit came to the realization

00:12:32.000 –> 00:12:33.000
is

00:12:33.000 –> 00:12:35.000
because I sucked.

00:12:35.000 –> 00:12:37.000
Yeah. It looks thin. Yeah. You know, I

00:12:37.000 –> 00:12:39.000
sucked. That was a horror manager.

00:12:39.000 –> 00:12:40.000
And,

00:12:40.000 –> 00:12:42.000
I’d never really learned how to

00:12:42.000 –> 00:12:43.000
to manage.

00:12:44.000 –> 00:12:45.000
Right? You know, like,

00:12:45.000 –> 00:12:47.000
in a restaurant when you’re being trained as

00:12:47.000 –> 00:12:49.000
a chef, at least back then. It was,

00:12:49.000 –> 00:12:51.000
you know, again, it was very cutthroat. It

00:12:51.000 –> 00:12:54.000
was very kind of military brigade system.

00:12:54.000 –> 00:12:57.000
It was, you know, I’m the chef. Yes,

00:12:57.000 –> 00:12:57.000
chef.

00:12:58.000 –> 00:13:00.000
You know, if I tell you to do

00:13:00.000 –> 00:13:00.000
something,

00:13:00.000 –> 00:13:02.000
you better fucking do it and you better

00:13:02.000 –> 00:13:04.000
do it fast and you better do it

00:13:04.000 –> 00:13:04.000
right,

00:13:05.000 –> 00:13:06.000
to be pissed,

00:13:06.000 –> 00:13:08.000
you know, and you, you know, it was

00:13:08.000 –> 00:13:09.000
it was a lot of leading out of

00:13:09.000 –> 00:13:12.000
fear and and stuff. And, you know, I

00:13:12.000 –> 00:13:15.000
had I re read this book called Delivering

00:13:15.000 –> 00:13:17.000
Happiness. Have you ever read that one? Sean

00:13:17.000 –> 00:13:18.000
Anchor, maybe. Tony,

00:13:19.000 –> 00:13:22.000
Shay Okay. Who, found out I never know

00:13:22.000 –> 00:13:24.000
if I’m saying his last name, right? But

00:13:24.000 –> 00:13:26.000
founded Zapos. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And,

00:13:27.000 –> 00:13:31.000
and, you know, that that just clicked all

00:13:31.000 –> 00:13:32.000
of a sudden. I mean, it was it

00:13:32.000 –> 00:13:34.000
was sometimes you read a book

00:13:34.000 –> 00:13:35.000
right when you need to read a book.

00:13:35.000 –> 00:13:37.000
Yeah. And that was that book. And it,

00:13:38.000 –> 00:13:40.000
then introduced me to,

00:13:44.000 –> 00:13:45.000
tribal leadership.

00:13:46.000 –> 00:13:48.000
And so tribal leadership then kind of like,

00:13:49.000 –> 00:13:51.000
gave that a voice, gave that a language,

00:13:51.000 –> 00:13:52.000
you know, and, you know, we started to

00:13:52.000 –> 00:13:54.000
talk about, you know,

00:13:56.000 –> 00:13:56.000
we.

00:13:56.000 –> 00:14:00.000
Right? You know, and and your language and

00:14:00.000 –> 00:14:03.000
and how the way you speak really kind

00:14:03.000 –> 00:14:04.000
of affects,

00:14:04.000 –> 00:14:07.000
you know, everybody around you, and it also

00:14:07.000 –> 00:14:08.000
affects

00:14:08.000 –> 00:14:11.000
the way that you’re acting. Right? So everything’s

00:14:11.000 –> 00:14:12.000
kind of like a language.

00:14:13.000 –> 00:14:15.000
And so, you know, going from eye to

00:14:15.000 –> 00:14:18.000
we was the biggest shift in our culture.

00:14:19.000 –> 00:14:21.000
And I think that’s the most the culture

00:14:21.000 –> 00:14:23.000
part of it’s the most applicable part across

00:14:23.000 –> 00:14:25.000
the board. I love that, man. Because I

00:14:25.000 –> 00:14:26.000
it’s so true. We talk about our firm.

00:14:26.000 –> 00:14:28.000
You know, so is it my firm is

00:14:28.000 –> 00:14:30.000
our firm and and my business partner and

00:14:30.000 –> 00:14:31.000
I, we’re we’re very locked in on that

00:14:31.000 –> 00:14:33.000
one because people wanna be a part of

00:14:33.000 –> 00:14:34.000
something. Right? I mean, And and at what

00:14:34.000 –> 00:14:37.000
point did you believe in hiring people? I

00:14:37.000 –> 00:14:39.000
look back at the amazing Claire back there

00:14:39.000 –> 00:14:41.000
who upset all this up. Hi, Claire. And,

00:14:42.000 –> 00:14:44.000
like, in in believing in other people and

00:14:44.000 –> 00:14:45.000
letting go. Right? Cause that was a big

00:14:45.000 –> 00:14:47.000
one for me is when you started having

00:14:47.000 –> 00:14:48.000
multiple teammates

00:14:49.000 –> 00:14:51.000
is, you know, coming from the janitor to

00:14:51.000 –> 00:14:53.000
the CEO, and now you’ve got all these

00:14:53.000 –> 00:14:55.000
people, like, at at what point was it

00:14:55.000 –> 00:14:56.000
for you? What was the a moment? Do

00:14:56.000 –> 00:14:58.000
do you recall that? Yeah. I mean, I

00:14:58.000 –> 00:14:59.000
think this was the

00:15:00.000 –> 00:15:02.000
a moment. I mean, I was so stressed

00:15:02.000 –> 00:15:04.000
out. I was stressed out.

00:15:05.000 –> 00:15:06.000
Seriously overweight,

00:15:07.000 –> 00:15:08.000
just

00:15:08.000 –> 00:15:09.000
angry.

00:15:09.000 –> 00:15:10.000
And,

00:15:10.000 –> 00:15:13.000
you know, I was just overall miserable, and

00:15:13.000 –> 00:15:13.000
I knew

00:15:14.000 –> 00:15:16.000
I think, you know, in reading this stuff,

00:15:16.000 –> 00:15:18.000
you knew that I had to do a

00:15:18.000 –> 00:15:21.000
better job at training people. Right? Yeah. And,

00:15:22.000 –> 00:15:25.000
you know, it’s started. It started with me,

00:15:25.000 –> 00:15:27.000
but then, you know, as we kind of

00:15:27.000 –> 00:15:29.000
started to come together as a group, we

00:15:29.000 –> 00:15:31.000
realized that if we can

00:15:31.000 –> 00:15:33.000
train people the right way,

00:15:34.000 –> 00:15:35.000
you know, and if we can,

00:15:36.000 –> 00:15:38.000
instill our values,

00:15:38.000 –> 00:15:39.000
across everybody,

00:15:40.000 –> 00:15:43.000
then everybody can kind of be thought leaders.

00:15:43.000 –> 00:15:45.000
Everybody can kind of start to make their

00:15:45.000 –> 00:15:47.000
own decisions based on those

00:15:47.000 –> 00:15:50.000
values. Right? And and I think that that’s

00:15:50.000 –> 00:15:52.000
the real key. It was kind of like

00:15:52.000 –> 00:15:53.000
distilling our core values,

00:15:53.000 –> 00:15:56.000
figuring out what made us tick. Yeah. And

00:15:56.000 –> 00:15:59.000
then maybe how to teach people how to

00:15:59.000 –> 00:16:01.000
think like that. Do you articulate those values

00:16:01.000 –> 00:16:02.000
to people? Like, would would they be able

00:16:02.000 –> 00:16:03.000
to say, hey, maybe they’re on the wall

00:16:03.000 –> 00:16:05.000
or whatever? Like, They’re they’re not on the

00:16:05.000 –> 00:16:07.000
wall. We we’d we’d do our Brett. And

00:16:07.000 –> 00:16:10.000
we we keep it pretty Brett simple. We

00:16:10.000 –> 00:16:11.000
only have five

00:16:11.000 –> 00:16:13.000
five core values.

00:16:13.000 –> 00:16:15.000
So That’s awesome. Yeah. But they can articulate

00:16:15.000 –> 00:16:17.000
those, which is a big deal. So how

00:16:17.000 –> 00:16:18.000
how do you then adapt to change? So

00:16:18.000 –> 00:16:20.000
that was a change. Right? Now, hey, I’m

00:16:20.000 –> 00:16:22.000
moving forward. I’ve got these amazing people. I’m

00:16:22.000 –> 00:16:24.000
a be a better boss. How did you

00:16:24.000 –> 00:16:26.000
adapt to change now to take it to

00:16:26.000 –> 00:16:28.000
the level you’ve taken it to today? Yeah.

00:16:28.000 –> 00:16:30.000
I think that was kind of a one

00:16:30.000 –> 00:16:31.000
foot in front of the other. You know,

00:16:31.000 –> 00:16:33.000
I think I came back from, you know,

00:16:33.000 –> 00:16:35.000
I at that time, I was on this

00:16:35.000 –> 00:16:37.000
long Gilliland,

00:16:37.000 –> 00:16:38.000
came back from this trip, you know, just

00:16:38.000 –> 00:16:41.000
charged, right? And, you know, let’s go. We’re

00:16:41.000 –> 00:16:43.000
gonna change everything overnight.

00:16:45.000 –> 00:16:46.000
And, you know, quickly realized

00:16:47.000 –> 00:16:48.000
that that

00:16:48.000 –> 00:16:51.000
that doesn’t happen. Yep. In fact, I think

00:16:51.000 –> 00:16:54.000
when I told her now director of service,

00:16:55.000 –> 00:16:57.000
but she was a a server at the

00:16:57.000 –> 00:16:58.000
time. I told her that we were, you

00:16:58.000 –> 00:17:01.000
know, gonna be making these changes. She just

00:17:01.000 –> 00:17:04.000
laughed. Yeah. She Right? I believe when I

00:17:04.000 –> 00:17:05.000
see it, dude.

00:17:05.000 –> 00:17:07.000
Absolutely. And rightly so. Right? You know? But

00:17:07.000 –> 00:17:08.000
I think you gotta show up every day.

00:17:08.000 –> 00:17:10.000
Right? I mean, that’s the thing I think

00:17:10.000 –> 00:17:12.000
about when growing a business is even on

00:17:12.000 –> 00:17:14.000
the days you don’t wanna show up, you

00:17:14.000 –> 00:17:15.000
show up. And you gotta walk the walk,

00:17:15.000 –> 00:17:16.000
you know.

00:17:17.000 –> 00:17:19.000
Yeah. That’s amazing. So, again, change, talk about

00:17:19.000 –> 00:17:21.000
COVID, man. That that had to be of

00:17:21.000 –> 00:17:23.000
any business that had to be one of

00:17:23.000 –> 00:17:26.000
the biggest people, I think, in hospitality, to

00:17:26.000 –> 00:17:28.000
make a change, right, during all that. What

00:17:28.000 –> 00:17:29.000
what did you learn

00:17:29.000 –> 00:17:31.000
as a leader, as an owner, as an

00:17:31.000 –> 00:17:31.000
entrepreneur,

00:17:31.000 –> 00:17:33.000
as a dad? Like, what did you learn

00:17:33.000 –> 00:17:36.000
during that time frame? In COVID? Yeah. Oh

00:17:36.000 –> 00:17:37.000
my god.

00:17:39.000 –> 00:17:41.000
God, that was really horrible. Wasn’t it? Yeah.

00:17:42.000 –> 00:17:44.000
No. I, you know, I think we were

00:17:44.000 –> 00:17:44.000
fortunately

00:17:47.000 –> 00:17:50.000
you know, hitting hitting peak culture

00:17:50.000 –> 00:17:52.000
at that time, which was awesome because it

00:17:52.000 –> 00:17:53.000
really

00:17:54.000 –> 00:17:55.000
You know, it really no. I really mean

00:17:55.000 –> 00:17:58.000
it was awesome because it it really,

00:17:58.000 –> 00:18:01.000
everybody was working so well together.

00:18:02.000 –> 00:18:04.000
And I think we needed that. Right? We

00:18:04.000 –> 00:18:06.000
needed that to get through. We needed everybody

00:18:06.000 –> 00:18:09.000
kind of, you know, firing on all cylinders

00:18:09.000 –> 00:18:11.000
thinking about everybody else. And,

00:18:12.000 –> 00:18:15.000
you know, thinking about ourselves is is one

00:18:15.000 –> 00:18:17.000
large team. And I think that’s what really,

00:18:17.000 –> 00:18:19.000
you know, if if if COVID taught me

00:18:19.000 –> 00:18:21.000
anything is that that works.

00:18:21.000 –> 00:18:24.000
Yeah. You know, and that that’s really important.

00:18:24.000 –> 00:18:26.000
And you saw, I think a lot of

00:18:26.000 –> 00:18:28.000
other businesses, all of a sudden, trying to

00:18:28.000 –> 00:18:29.000
kinda scramble,

00:18:30.000 –> 00:18:32.000
you know, to to work on this culture

00:18:32.000 –> 00:18:33.000
thing,

00:18:33.000 –> 00:18:36.000
when all their employees left, you know, and

00:18:36.000 –> 00:18:38.000
I think we were in a great great

00:18:38.000 –> 00:18:38.000
position,

00:18:39.000 –> 00:18:41.000
because of that. Yeah. It’s funny you talk

00:18:41.000 –> 00:18:44.000
about that culture is during COVID for us,

00:18:44.000 –> 00:18:46.000
it was, you know, being in the finance

00:18:46.000 –> 00:18:47.000
world. We were able to obviously have conference

00:18:47.000 –> 00:18:48.000
calls and Zoom calls and do a lot

00:18:48.000 –> 00:18:50.000
of stuff with clients, but,

00:18:50.000 –> 00:18:52.000
you know, as a as a leader, we

00:18:52.000 –> 00:18:53.000
had to make a decision that people weren’t

00:18:53.000 –> 00:18:55.000
gonna come in the office Gilliland by about

00:18:55.000 –> 00:18:57.000
July, I think it was July of twenty

00:18:57.000 –> 00:18:58.000
twenty. So only three or four months into

00:18:58.000 –> 00:19:01.000
this, our culture said to us,

00:19:01.000 –> 00:19:02.000
we wanna be back together.

00:19:03.000 –> 00:19:04.000
You know, and so it’s like it was

00:19:04.000 –> 00:19:06.000
starting to have a negative effect by not

00:19:06.000 –> 00:19:07.000
being together on us. Right? And so it

00:19:07.000 –> 00:19:08.000
was cool to be able to make that

00:19:08.000 –> 00:19:11.000
change and be like, alright. Signed this form

00:19:11.000 –> 00:19:12.000
every day. We’re not taking responsibility to show

00:19:12.000 –> 00:19:14.000
up and get sick because nobody knew at

00:19:14.000 –> 00:19:16.000
that time. And Yeah. People started showing back

00:19:16.000 –> 00:19:18.000
up, and it was amazing how that culture

00:19:18.000 –> 00:19:20.000
and those values and that connection was super

00:19:20.000 –> 00:19:22.000
important to people Yeah. That made our our

00:19:22.000 –> 00:19:24.000
culture start to go in in the right

00:19:24.000 –> 00:19:27.000
direction again, which was a big moment. Yeah.

00:19:27.000 –> 00:19:29.000
I think kinda let everybody take it the

00:19:29.000 –> 00:19:29.000
way they

00:19:30.000 –> 00:19:32.000
they were ready to take it. Yeah. Right?

00:19:32.000 –> 00:19:34.000
You know, I think there were people that

00:19:34.000 –> 00:19:35.000
were ready to come back and

00:19:36.000 –> 00:19:39.000
and and work, and we all kind of,

00:19:39.000 –> 00:19:41.000
you know, did that. And we tried to

00:19:41.000 –> 00:19:44.000
do that in the safest way possible, and

00:19:44.000 –> 00:19:44.000
and,

00:19:45.000 –> 00:19:46.000
you know, worked a lot with, you know,

00:19:46.000 –> 00:19:50.000
a lot of the community leaders, the doctors

00:19:50.000 –> 00:19:51.000
in the area that were kind of advising

00:19:51.000 –> 00:19:54.000
us and in in giving us good intel

00:19:54.000 –> 00:19:56.000
on on how we could maybe do it

00:19:56.000 –> 00:19:57.000
more safely

00:19:58.000 –> 00:20:00.000
and, trying to help our friends do the

00:20:00.000 –> 00:20:01.000
exact same things.

00:20:01.000 –> 00:20:03.000
And, you know, I think,

00:20:04.000 –> 00:20:05.000
again, we we we had a lot of

00:20:05.000 –> 00:20:07.000
voices on the team, and,

00:20:08.000 –> 00:20:10.000
we all worked together really well to kind

00:20:10.000 –> 00:20:11.000
of push ourselves

00:20:12.000 –> 00:20:15.000
through a really, really rough time. So on

00:20:15.000 –> 00:20:16.000
the adapting to change,

00:20:17.000 –> 00:20:18.000
talk about needs. You you’ve talked about the

00:20:18.000 –> 00:20:20.000
restaurant. And and you decided to close it

00:20:20.000 –> 00:20:21.000
when it was

00:20:22.000 –> 00:20:24.000
booming. Right? Successful. And so, again, last night,

00:20:24.000 –> 00:20:26.000
I’m doing my work. I’m researching you. And

00:20:26.000 –> 00:20:27.000
I know the story. Right? I was in

00:20:27.000 –> 00:20:29.000
St. That happened and and like, hey, there’s

00:20:29.000 –> 00:20:31.000
a successful restaurant close, and you normally hear

00:20:31.000 –> 00:20:33.000
the other way. Right? So it’s a head

00:20:33.000 –> 00:20:35.000
scratcher as a business leader. This thing’s working

00:20:35.000 –> 00:20:37.000
the guy had the guts to go out

00:20:37.000 –> 00:20:39.000
there and close a successful restaurant.

00:20:39.000 –> 00:20:41.000
Walk me through that. What the hell was

00:20:41.000 –> 00:20:43.000
going on in your mind when that happened?

00:20:44.000 –> 00:20:47.000
You know, I think Nish was always tough.

00:20:47.000 –> 00:20:50.000
Right? And Nish was a very tough restaurant

00:20:50.000 –> 00:20:51.000
to

00:20:51.000 –> 00:20:54.000
operate. And, you know, we started in two

00:20:54.000 –> 00:20:56.000
thousand five, and I think we

00:20:56.000 –> 00:20:59.000
closed it in in what, two thousand, and,

00:21:00.000 –> 00:21:01.000
seventeen.

00:21:02.000 –> 00:21:04.000
You know, so that that’s a very long

00:21:04.000 –> 00:21:06.000
run for that restaurant. It was a very

00:21:06.000 –> 00:21:06.000
personal

00:21:07.000 –> 00:21:08.000
restaurant.

00:21:08.000 –> 00:21:09.000
And, you know, I know

00:21:10.000 –> 00:21:12.000
that I had just passed the reins off

00:21:12.000 –> 00:21:15.000
in two thousand fifteen as chef to Nate

00:21:15.000 –> 00:21:19.000
Hariford, who now is the successful chicken scratch

00:21:19.000 –> 00:21:19.000
restaurant.

00:21:22.000 –> 00:21:23.000
And I just

00:21:24.000 –> 00:21:26.000
You know, it was it was

00:21:26.000 –> 00:21:28.000
it was it’s such a good point that

00:21:28.000 –> 00:21:29.000
I never really wanted this this restaurant

00:21:33.000 –> 00:21:36.000
to start falling backwards. Yep. And I never

00:21:36.000 –> 00:21:38.000
wanted to, you know, be ten years down

00:21:38.000 –> 00:21:39.000
the road from there

00:21:41.000 –> 00:21:44.000
with everybody being like, oh, yeah. There’s there’s

00:21:44.000 –> 00:21:46.000
niche. It’s still there.

00:21:46.000 –> 00:21:48.000
You know, like Same old thing. Not the

00:21:48.000 –> 00:21:50.000
hot spot anymore or whatever. You know, I

00:21:50.000 –> 00:21:53.000
just I I I wanted it to, you

00:21:53.000 –> 00:21:55.000
know, I wanted the legacy of niche,

00:21:56.000 –> 00:21:58.000
you know, to, to end right there. It

00:21:58.000 –> 00:22:00.000
was kinda like that. That moment. We had

00:22:00.000 –> 00:22:02.000
won the James Beard award two years before.

00:22:03.000 –> 00:22:04.000
It was just kind of

00:22:05.000 –> 00:22:07.000
it just felt like that time. Yeah.

00:22:07.000 –> 00:22:09.000
Well, take some guts, man. Well, I don’t

00:22:09.000 –> 00:22:11.000
know if it’s guts here. Just so we’re

00:22:11.000 –> 00:22:12.000
always here. I I think it it is

00:22:12.000 –> 00:22:14.000
amazing, but it but you’re right. It’s like

00:22:14.000 –> 00:22:15.000
you were talking about our, you know, you

00:22:15.000 –> 00:22:16.000
have a senior, I have a senior.

00:22:16.000 –> 00:22:18.000
Is it’d be like holding our kids back,

00:22:18.000 –> 00:22:20.000
right, not letting them go. And I think

00:22:20.000 –> 00:22:22.000
your decision to close that was probably has

00:22:22.000 –> 00:22:23.000
catapulted you into another level of belief

00:22:26.000 –> 00:22:28.000
growth and expectations. Would you agree with that?

00:22:28.000 –> 00:22:30.000
Yeah. And I think, you know, it’s just

00:22:30.000 –> 00:22:33.000
kind of it’s it’s allowed us to change

00:22:34.000 –> 00:22:36.000
what we do and what I do specifically

00:22:36.000 –> 00:22:38.000
Yep. For the company, you know, as opposed

00:22:38.000 –> 00:22:39.000
to, you know, being on the line or

00:22:39.000 –> 00:22:40.000
or whatever on on

00:22:42.000 –> 00:22:44.000
such a regular basis,

00:22:45.000 –> 00:22:47.000
and kind of, you know, traveling to represent

00:22:47.000 –> 00:22:49.000
niche around the country, which I was doing

00:22:49.000 –> 00:22:50.000
all the time.

00:22:51.000 –> 00:22:53.000
You know, this allowed me to kind of

00:22:53.000 –> 00:22:54.000
really be the CEO

00:22:55.000 –> 00:22:57.000
of the company. Yeah. And I actually

00:22:57.000 –> 00:22:59.000
do the things that I needed to do

00:22:59.000 –> 00:23:01.000
to to grow the company and to, you

00:23:01.000 –> 00:23:02.000
know,

00:23:03.000 –> 00:23:05.000
give back to our investors and and

00:23:05.000 –> 00:23:07.000
and help us Brett to the next level.

00:23:07.000 –> 00:23:09.000
How hard was it for you to leave

00:23:09.000 –> 00:23:11.000
the kitchen and get into, again, the the

00:23:11.000 –> 00:23:13.000
boardroom, if you will, how hard was that

00:23:13.000 –> 00:23:14.000
for you? It’s still hard.

00:23:15.000 –> 00:23:17.000
Yeah. That’s your passion. That’s your baby. I

00:23:17.000 –> 00:23:20.000
I enjoy cooking. I really do. And,

00:23:21.000 –> 00:23:23.000
I wouldn’t say I’m the best CEO in

00:23:23.000 –> 00:23:23.000
the world

00:23:24.000 –> 00:23:26.000
You know, I’m I I know there there’s

00:23:26.000 –> 00:23:28.000
there’s far better than than me out there.

00:23:28.000 –> 00:23:31.000
I’m constantly trying, but, you know, it it’s

00:23:31.000 –> 00:23:33.000
tough to to step away and just kind

00:23:33.000 –> 00:23:35.000
of do what you need to do at

00:23:35.000 –> 00:23:37.000
the time versus what you want to do

00:23:37.000 –> 00:23:40.000
at the time. So talk about building brand.

00:23:40.000 –> 00:23:42.000
Obviously, the the the niche group, because there

00:23:42.000 –> 00:23:44.000
are heavy restaurants total are there right now?

00:23:44.000 –> 00:23:44.000
God.

00:23:45.000 –> 00:23:47.000
Well, we have some shifting going on right

00:23:47.000 –> 00:23:49.000
now. So it’s it’s messing with my car

00:23:49.000 –> 00:23:51.000
at the end of January. A little bit.

00:23:51.000 –> 00:23:54.000
You know, we’ve, cinder house, has closed.

00:23:56.000 –> 00:23:58.000
And Rockwell. It’s my favorite chicken sandwich downtown

00:23:58.000 –> 00:24:00.000
here. So the period period? Yeah.

00:24:01.000 –> 00:24:02.000
I’m sorry. I don’t know what that is,

00:24:02.000 –> 00:24:03.000
but it’s some good stuff. I do a

00:24:03.000 –> 00:24:06.000
meeting there once a quarter. Yeah. Every quarter,

00:24:06.000 –> 00:24:08.000
I do a meeting there, an off-site retreat.

00:24:08.000 –> 00:24:10.000
So I anybody listening. Take your team off-site.

00:24:10.000 –> 00:24:11.000
You go somewhere. You learn. You you think

00:24:11.000 –> 00:24:12.000
you strategize.

00:24:13.000 –> 00:24:14.000
We always went there, and that’s a chicken

00:24:14.000 –> 00:24:16.000
sandwich I had every time. Yeah. No. I

00:24:16.000 –> 00:24:18.000
s senator I was one of my favorite

00:24:18.000 –> 00:24:19.000
places.

00:24:20.000 –> 00:24:22.000
But, you know, it it’s business. We,

00:24:23.000 –> 00:24:25.000
you know, we had a five year contract

00:24:25.000 –> 00:24:26.000
and,

00:24:26.000 –> 00:24:28.000
you know, they’re owned by,

00:24:29.000 –> 00:24:31.000
Caesar’s Palace, Okay. And, you know, they wanna

00:24:31.000 –> 00:24:33.000
do something, I think, a little more bagasse.

00:24:34.000 –> 00:24:36.000
And, you know, it’s not your style.

00:24:37.000 –> 00:24:39.000
Well, I, you know, I it’s also just

00:24:39.000 –> 00:24:41.000
not me. I’m not I’m not from Vegas.

00:24:41.000 –> 00:24:43.000
You know, I am not a Vegas restaurant.

00:24:43.000 –> 00:24:44.000
Oh, it’s funny.

00:24:45.000 –> 00:24:47.000
But a brands for what strategies,

00:24:47.000 –> 00:24:49.000
maybe mindset, thoughts do you have when you

00:24:49.000 –> 00:24:52.000
think about your brands, you name your brands,

00:24:52.000 –> 00:24:54.000
you design your brands, what what does that

00:24:54.000 –> 00:24:56.000
look like? What’s that process look like for

00:24:56.000 –> 00:24:56.000
you?

00:24:57.000 –> 00:24:59.000
Yeah. So I a lot of research,

00:25:00.000 –> 00:25:02.000
you know, we really wanna kind of dive

00:25:02.000 –> 00:25:02.000
into

00:25:03.000 –> 00:25:04.000
that world,

00:25:04.000 –> 00:25:07.000
whatever that might be. And,

00:25:07.000 –> 00:25:10.000
you know, so for the, you know, Craft

00:25:10.000 –> 00:25:13.000
cocktail world. Fortunately, it’s one that we’ve been

00:25:13.000 –> 00:25:15.000
in for a long time because

00:25:15.000 –> 00:25:18.000
taste, you know, was one of the

00:25:19.000 –> 00:25:21.000
one of the, you know, kind of original

00:25:21.000 –> 00:25:23.000
craft cocktail bars in the country. I mean,

00:25:23.000 –> 00:25:26.000
there was, you know, there was a couple

00:25:26.000 –> 00:25:28.000
dozen at the time that we that we

00:25:28.000 –> 00:25:29.000
opened. So,

00:25:30.000 –> 00:25:34.000
really kind of immersing ourselves in that experience

00:25:34.000 –> 00:25:36.000
and just kinda going through all the details,

00:25:36.000 –> 00:25:38.000
you know, what What what does the menu

00:25:38.000 –> 00:25:40.000
look like? What do people

00:25:40.000 –> 00:25:43.000
really enjoy? What do people want?

00:25:43.000 –> 00:25:45.000
Is this a, you know, luxurious

00:25:45.000 –> 00:25:47.000
experience, or is it a kind of divey

00:25:47.000 –> 00:25:50.000
experience? Is this, you know, which this is

00:25:50.000 –> 00:25:50.000
decidedly

00:25:51.000 –> 00:25:52.000
luxurious?

00:25:53.000 –> 00:25:54.000
Know, how do we want the service to

00:25:54.000 –> 00:25:56.000
be? How do we want the

00:25:56.000 –> 00:25:58.000
the servers to

00:25:58.000 –> 00:26:01.000
to dress? How do we want

00:26:02.000 –> 00:26:04.000
the ice to look. What is the lighting?

00:26:04.000 –> 00:26:06.000
You know, I mean, there’s we we try

00:26:06.000 –> 00:26:08.000
to really dive into every little piece

00:26:10.000 –> 00:26:12.000
of that restaurant in that genre,

00:26:13.000 –> 00:26:15.000
to try to get it right. Big guys

00:26:15.000 –> 00:26:16.000
are little eyes for the bourbon.

00:26:17.000 –> 00:26:20.000
For me, no ice. No ice. Yeah.

00:26:20.000 –> 00:26:22.000
But, you know,

00:26:22.000 –> 00:26:25.000
for if I’m drinking gin and soda,

00:26:26.000 –> 00:26:28.000
I have a thing where I actually don’t

00:26:28.000 –> 00:26:30.000
like the big ice cube because I kind

00:26:30.000 –> 00:26:32.000
of want it to to keep melting a

00:26:32.000 –> 00:26:35.000
little bit. Yeah. I think the big ice

00:26:35.000 –> 00:26:37.000
has its place. Yeah. You know,

00:26:37.000 –> 00:26:39.000
when you don’t want any dilution, you just

00:26:39.000 –> 00:26:41.000
want it kind of cold.

00:26:41.000 –> 00:26:43.000
But if you wanna kinda dilute it, I

00:26:43.000 –> 00:26:45.000
like the, I like the little eyes. I’m

00:26:45.000 –> 00:26:47.000
a big ice guy in the bourbon. Yeah.

00:26:47.000 –> 00:26:48.000
Not that you really care, but,

00:26:50.000 –> 00:26:50.000
so,

00:26:51.000 –> 00:26:52.000
locations. So I think for me, we have

00:26:52.000 –> 00:26:54.000
eight office locations, and I think, you know,

00:26:54.000 –> 00:26:56.000
the hardest part is when you had one,

00:26:56.000 –> 00:26:57.000
you could walk to go get a cup

00:26:57.000 –> 00:26:59.000
of water and and touch everybody in your

00:26:59.000 –> 00:27:02.000
Right? Now with eight locations, you can’t do

00:27:02.000 –> 00:27:03.000
that. And you may go months, right, without

00:27:03.000 –> 00:27:06.000
seeing somebody. So how do you, one,

00:27:06.000 –> 00:27:09.000
touch everybody in in the company, but number

00:27:09.000 –> 00:27:12.000
two, how do you, expect the the customer

00:27:12.000 –> 00:27:14.000
service to be this, not necessarily the same,

00:27:14.000 –> 00:27:16.000
but high value, high customer service at all

00:27:16.000 –> 00:27:17.000
the locations?

00:27:17.000 –> 00:27:19.000
Yeah. I mean, number one, your manager is

00:27:19.000 –> 00:27:22.000
everything. Yeah. Right. Your your GM

00:27:23.000 –> 00:27:23.000
is

00:27:24.000 –> 00:27:26.000
is the place. You know, whether you whether

00:27:26.000 –> 00:27:28.000
whether you think you’re the place or or

00:27:28.000 –> 00:27:29.000
not, like that your

00:27:30.000 –> 00:27:32.000
your GM is is the person for better

00:27:32.000 –> 00:27:35.000
or worse. So, you know, hiring that person’s

00:27:35.000 –> 00:27:36.000
huge.

00:27:38.000 –> 00:27:39.000
You know, I think always trying to keep

00:27:39.000 –> 00:27:40.000
communication

00:27:40.000 –> 00:27:42.000
channels open somehow.

00:27:42.000 –> 00:27:44.000
Something that we’ve always kind of worked on

00:27:44.000 –> 00:27:46.000
and, you know, we’ve we’ve used to different

00:27:46.000 –> 00:27:48.000
things like the local company here, Bonfire,

00:27:50.000 –> 00:27:52.000
or even just kinda like WhatsApp threads Mhmm.

00:27:53.000 –> 00:27:55.000
Stuff like that to really try to

00:27:55.000 –> 00:27:57.000
to keep that connection

00:27:58.000 –> 00:28:00.000
going. You know? So even if you it,

00:28:00.000 –> 00:28:02.000
you know, be there in person. Like, for

00:28:02.000 –> 00:28:02.000
instance,

00:28:02.000 –> 00:28:05.000
Nashville, I I can only get there. Usually

00:28:05.000 –> 00:28:08.000
for one week, every five weeks. It used

00:28:08.000 –> 00:28:10.000
to be once a month. Now it’s every

00:28:10.000 –> 00:28:10.000
five weeks.

00:28:12.000 –> 00:28:14.000
You know, so you you still have to

00:28:14.000 –> 00:28:16.000
kind of keep some dialogue. And so you

00:28:16.000 –> 00:28:18.000
know, and I’ll I’ll go through different things

00:28:18.000 –> 00:28:21.000