Join us as we delve into the captivating story of Gerard Craft, renowned chef, and entrepreneur, as he shares his remarkable journey from a troubled childhood to becoming a highly successful chef and business owner. In this thought-provoking podcast episode, Craft opens up about his early passion for photography, his decision to pursue a culinary career, and the challenges he faced along the way. Filmed at the hidden speakeasy, NOTA, located at The Foundry in St. Louis, this episode offers a unique backdrop for Craft’s inspiring insights. Discover the key values, training methods, and empowering leadership strategies that Craft implemented to create a positive company culture in his own restaurant. Gain valuable insights into the importance of embracing change, building a strong foundation in business, and the power of continuous learning. Craft’s inspiring experiences will leave you motivated to embrace failure as an opportunity for growth and to lead with honesty and feedback. Don’t miss this engaging conversation that explores leadership, culture, and the transformative power of following your passion, all set against the backdrop of the hidden speakeasy, NOTA, at The Foundry in St. Louis.

Check out the video interview here!

TRANSCRIPTION

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I am your host,

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Brett Gilliland, and today I’ve got Gerard Craft

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with me Gerard what’s going on, my man.

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How are you? I’m great. Thanks for having

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me. You probably don’t know this because I

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don’t even know if you check your own

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Instagram messages, but I sent you a message

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in April two thousand eighteen.

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Really? I did. That’s Craft. And now here

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we are. No. January of two thousand twenty

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four.

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That’s alright, man. You’re a busy guy. I’ve

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been good at checking my, like, normal message

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you know, my emails, my texts.

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I like to share those messages because it’s

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life’s about persistency as you know. You guys

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stay pleasantly persistent, but our mutual friend, Katie,

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call your introduce to two of us and

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thank you, Katie, for sure.

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Why don’t you explain to people that are

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watching this right now? Where are we at

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right

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so we are at Noda, which stands for.

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None of the above. It’s our speakeasy

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here at the city foundry, but we’re kind

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of through some tunnels in the basement Yeah.

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Hidden away. It’s amazing. Absolutely amazing. Do we

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share how we get down here or is

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that kind of a secret?

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You can yeah. I mean, there’s a there’s

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a door up at the top on foundry

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Way with,

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a red light Gilliland

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if that light is on,

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then you can pop in and, you know,

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hopefully we have some some space.

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I love it. And if it’s not on,

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it means you’re just not open, or does

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it means it’s full? Yeah. It means we’re

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not open. Okay. Yeah. Alright. Well, hey, man.

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Let’s dive in if we can and, get

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listeners a little lay of the land. I

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told you I’d start with kinda what’s your

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backstory of what’s made you the man you

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are today.

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Yeah. So,

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you know, grew up in Washington, DC.

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And,

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you know, got into

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far too much trouble as a kid. And

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ended up,

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finishing school, I should say, out in, Northern

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Idaho

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at a,

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at,

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school for, you know,

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troubled kids.

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And when I was there, I got to

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do

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sort of an apprenticeship

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with a photographer. And so I started getting

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really into snowboard photography. We were up in

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the mountains, so it was kinda perfect for

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all of that. I had always been interested

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in photography and done a lot,

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growing up. And so got to really, you

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know, see kind of the professional side of

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it. And, you know, we were doing everything

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from skiing and snowboarding

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to wake boarding,

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on skateboarding in in the summer.

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And then I moved to Salt Lake City

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after that school to go to Gilliland

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to continue my photography.

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And while I was there, I ended up

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dropping out of college. And

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you see a pattern of school not working

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out for me.

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But I

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took a job

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just kind of in the morning, I took

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a job washing cars.

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And at night, I took a job washing

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dishes. And, you know, still was doing my

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photography. Gilliland

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everything, but the photography wasn’t really paying any

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money. It was, you know. Right. Right. Yeah.

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It was like a trade stuff trying to

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get in the door with different professional hot,

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snowboarders and stuff like that. But

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really fell in love with the kitchen when

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I was in there and a

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career advisor

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told me I should think about, going to

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culinary school.

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And so I want to,

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Salt Lake City Community College. Mhmm. And

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studied culinary arts while I was still kind

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of working

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at this this place called Fats Grill. I

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mean,

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super high end luxury.

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Nothing like Nota. This was Although it was

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a very clean,

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you know, bar with pool hole,

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you know, pool Gilliland,

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But but it was it was definitely not

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a a real refined spot. Right. And didn’t

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you go on to work at one of

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the best restaurants in San Fran and some

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other places around the country? I did not

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go to San Francisco. So I, from there,

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I actually went in,

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did a work study at the Ritz in

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Paris

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and,

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went out to Los Angeles to the,

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Chateau Mamont Hotel. That’s what I was thinking

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about. Yeah.

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And so I was a sous chef out

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at the Chateau Marmont,

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and

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stashed at a place in New Jersey for

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a while called Gilliland Inn which was kind

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of on a five acre organic,

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farm

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and,

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just outside of New York City. So It

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was a Relay Chateau property,

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all tasting menus.

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And I think that was about the the

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scariest place I ever

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ever worked.

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But it was amazing. It was just a

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very intense,

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atmosphere.

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And, you know, very driven people you know,

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all the people that worked there are all,

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you know, super successful today. You know, so

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I was I was definitely in over my

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head, but, you know, in the best kind

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of way. Right?

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So did you look to those guys and

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gals for leadership and advice, or was it

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cut throat and it didn’t work that way?

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Like, what what was the environment like in

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a restaurant like that? Yeah. I mean, they

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they were all, like, pretty cutthroat, but it

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was, you know,

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you know, everybody was helpful. And,

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as long as you were trying and and

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pushing and,

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you know, so everywhere you went, you were

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just trying to kind of learn as much

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as as humanly possible.

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So I’m a go back to when you

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went,

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out from from the East Coast to the

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West Coast to finish school. Like, what was

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it about you or maybe your upbringing? I

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don’t know what it is, but my fascinated

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by guys, that and guys and gals that

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that do something like that and have a

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pretty dramatic, you know, event happen. And then

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all of a sudden, now you fast where

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you’re at in two thousand twenty four. Right?

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Like, what do you think it was specifically

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about you that made you

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go a different route than maybe you could

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have gone?

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I don’t know. You know, I think I’ve

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always been, you know, a fan of the

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road less traveled. And,

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and I don’t know if that made all

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the difference. You know, but,

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I’ve I’ve definitely always appreciated

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the struggle.

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And I I don’t know why that is

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because there’s probably a horrible trait. Probably something

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I should talk to a therapist about, but,

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but I, you know, I always wanted to,

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you know, do things on my own and,

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you know, do things the hard way for

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some reason.

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And

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I think when I was looking to finally

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open a restaurant,

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I didn’t wanna go back. You know, my

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old family’s from New York Gilliland

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DC,

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and I didn’t wanna go back there and

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kind of fail in front of everybody. I

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kinda wanted to, you know, branch out on

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my own, do my own thing.

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And again, you know, I it worked out

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somehow, but god,

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probably not the smartest way. You know, I

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could have opened in New York City around

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family. And,

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yeah, you know, had all sorts of family

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friends coming in. But, thankfully, Saint Louis really

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welcomed me. So And talk about that. So

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what brought you to Saint Louis? I read

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that story. I think that’s pretty cool. Yeah.

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I mean, it was, again, I was twenty

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five years old. So,

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I look at twenty five year olds now,

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and I’m, like, oh my god. What the

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hell is that? Like, I was, like, twenty

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five.

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You know, so, you know, wasn’t always thinking

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entirely clearly, but, you know, I, I knew

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I wanted to do something on my own.

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I wanted to get out. And,

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you know, I had seen some stuff, and

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I think, like, Bonapati magazine or something like

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that about Saint Lewis, and I think an

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American place had just opened,

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Monarch restaurant was

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was doing really Brett. And I just read

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about Kevin Nash in buying Sydney Brett Craft,

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and he had just come from, like,

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Martine Barastaghi

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in Spain and Daniel Gilliland

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New York. And so

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I was like, oh, that’s kind of a

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cool Gilliland now I used to have a

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weird hobby of

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I still have a weird hobby of staying

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up late and looking at real estate.

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And,

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just kind of started looking at real estate

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in

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Saint Louis and stumbled upon this ad that

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was, wine bar for sale, which

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looking back at niche, when niche was not

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at, it was dirt floors, hole in the

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ground, no

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electricity.

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I was like, how was this a wine

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bar? Right.

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But, yeah, then I, I just kind of

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came here on, New Year’s Day,

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in

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two thousand five. And I I literally signed

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it on the spot. And I remember my

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brother, like, do you have a lawyer?

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Are you what are you doing? What’s a

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lawyer? How are you looking for?

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So,

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thankfully, I had my brother,

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investing and on my side because he was

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able to at least he local at all?

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Dear me. No. My brother lives in London.

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Okay. But he was at least able to

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to, you know, help me make some,

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my brother’s like you. He’s in finance. Okay.

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So That’s funny. Yeah. Yeah. So what I

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mean, when you think about that that move,

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did you did you picture success in your

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or was that just something you’re like, this

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is my passion. I’m gonna follow it, and

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then it’s successes happen? Like, what, like, what

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was it like if you look back to

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the twenty five year old Gerard? I think

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I always envisioned six success, but I think,

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you know,

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that vision of success is

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is continually

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changing. Right? You know, I think my my

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first vision of success was know, a successful

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neighborhood restaurant. And,

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you know, I had been eating a lot

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at a restaurant called prune in New York

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Gilliland

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there was a place called the tasting room

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in New York, and these were kinda like

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very small, but but kind of progressive and

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different restaurants.

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And and that’s kind of the between that

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and kind of what was going on in

00:10:03.000 –> 00:10:06.000

some of the small restaurants in Paris at

00:10:06.000 –> 00:10:06.000

the time,

00:10:07.000 –> 00:10:07.000

And,

00:10:08.000 –> 00:10:10.000

in Spain, you know, that’s kind of where

00:10:10.000 –> 00:10:12.000

I was where I was looking to. I

00:10:12.000 –> 00:10:15.000

think what happened was a lot different.

00:10:15.000 –> 00:10:17.000

And, you know, I think,

00:10:18.000 –> 00:10:20.000

I I didn’t quite understand. I think the

00:10:20.000 –> 00:10:23.000

demographics that I was gonna be serving

00:10:23.000 –> 00:10:25.000

when when we opened these. I thought I

00:10:25.000 –> 00:10:27.000

thought we were gonna be serving a lot

00:10:27.000 –> 00:10:28.000

of younger people,

00:10:28.000 –> 00:10:29.000

you know,

00:10:29.000 –> 00:10:30.000

young professionals Gilliland

00:10:31.000 –> 00:10:32.000

you go to New York. What what do

00:10:32.000 –> 00:10:35.000

you see in HIP new restaurant. And I

00:10:35.000 –> 00:10:37.000

think I actually got a much older client,

00:10:37.000 –> 00:10:38.000

though, coming from,

00:10:39.000 –> 00:10:40.000

ledoux

00:10:40.000 –> 00:10:42.000

and, you know, the suburbs.

00:10:42.000 –> 00:10:46.000

And and not entirely from my area. And

00:10:46.000 –> 00:10:46.000

and

00:10:47.000 –> 00:10:49.000

and I think there there was definitely a

00:10:49.000 –> 00:10:51.000

little bit of a of a struggle in

00:10:52.000 –> 00:10:54.000

in what people wanted out of us and

00:10:54.000 –> 00:10:56.000

what we were actually doing. Yeah. Isn’t it

00:10:56.000 –> 00:10:57.000

funny when you think you Brett this business

00:10:57.000 –> 00:10:59.000

plan and and what’s you think’s gonna happen

00:10:59.000 –> 00:11:02.000

that it rarely ever works that way. Yeah.

00:11:02.000 –> 00:11:04.000

So we were successful. Yeah. But

00:11:05.000 –> 00:11:07.000

not in the way that we had planned

00:11:07.000 –> 00:11:10.000

on being successful. What do you think, being

00:11:10.000 –> 00:11:12.000

the entrepreneur that you are in places like

00:11:12.000 –> 00:11:14.000

this, which is amazing. I absolutely love this.

00:11:14.000 –> 00:11:15.000

And the walk down here is one of

00:11:15.000 –> 00:11:17.000

the coolest things I’ve ever seen. I’m not

00:11:17.000 –> 00:11:18.000

just saying that.

00:11:18.000 –> 00:11:21.000

From an entrepreneurial standpoint, what what do you

00:11:21.000 –> 00:11:22.000

think that you can share from a restaurant

00:11:23.000 –> 00:11:24.000

world to the to the business person or

00:11:24.000 –> 00:11:26.000

the, you know, the lawyer that whoever’s watching

00:11:26.000 –> 00:11:28.000

this right now? What do you see the

00:11:28.000 –> 00:11:30.000

similarities that can be learned from your world

00:11:30.000 –> 00:11:32.000

into the business world?

00:11:32.000 –> 00:11:34.000

Oh my god. I mean, you know, we

00:11:34.000 –> 00:11:35.000

are in the business world. So,

00:11:36.000 –> 00:11:38.000

you know, I think it’s all

00:11:38.000 –> 00:11:39.000

applicable,

00:11:39.000 –> 00:11:41.000

really, you know, and I think,

00:11:42.000 –> 00:11:45.000

flip that around a bit. I have learned

00:11:45.000 –> 00:11:48.000

a lot from the quote unquote business world.

00:11:48.000 –> 00:11:51.000

And I think it was in two thousand

00:11:52.000 –> 00:11:52.000

and twelve.

00:11:53.000 –> 00:11:55.000

We were opening pasteria,

00:11:56.000 –> 00:11:57.000

which was our fourth restaurant

00:11:58.000 –> 00:11:59.000

at the time, and

00:12:00.000 –> 00:12:02.000

I was really, really struggling.

00:12:03.000 –> 00:12:05.000

And I was struggling to to really manage

00:12:05.000 –> 00:12:08.000

them all. They were all doing really well.

00:12:09.000 –> 00:12:11.000

But all of a sudden I was managing

00:12:11.000 –> 00:12:11.000

four places

00:12:12.000 –> 00:12:14.000

and figured out I couldn’t really micromanage

00:12:15.000 –> 00:12:18.000

four places. Yep. And and I didn’t quite

00:12:18.000 –> 00:12:19.000

see it like that. I just at the

00:12:19.000 –> 00:12:21.000

time saw it is, everybody sucked.

00:12:23.000 –> 00:12:26.000

And why was everybody sucking and and not

00:12:26.000 –> 00:12:28.000

doing what they were supposed to do? And,

00:12:28.000 –> 00:12:29.000

you know,

00:12:29.000 –> 00:12:30.000

you know,

00:12:30.000 –> 00:12:32.000

after a little bit came to the realization

00:12:32.000 –> 00:12:33.000

is

00:12:33.000 –> 00:12:35.000

because I sucked.

00:12:35.000 –> 00:12:37.000

Yeah. It looks thin. Yeah. You know, I

00:12:37.000 –> 00:12:39.000

sucked. That was a horror manager.

00:12:39.000 –> 00:12:40.000

And,

00:12:40.000 –> 00:12:42.000

I’d never really learned how to

00:12:42.000 –> 00:12:43.000

to manage.

00:12:44.000 –> 00:12:45.000

Right? You know, like,

00:12:45.000 –> 00:12:47.000

in a restaurant when you’re being trained as

00:12:47.000 –> 00:12:49.000

a chef, at least back then. It was,

00:12:49.000 –> 00:12:51.000

you know, again, it was very cutthroat. It

00:12:51.000 –> 00:12:54.000

was very kind of military brigade system.

00:12:54.000 –> 00:12:57.000

It was, you know, I’m the chef. Yes,

00:12:57.000 –> 00:12:57.000

chef.

00:12:58.000 –> 00:13:00.000

You know, if I tell you to do

00:13:00.000 –> 00:13:00.000

something,

00:13:00.000 –> 00:13:02.000

you better fucking do it and you better

00:13:02.000 –> 00:13:04.000

do it fast and you better do it

00:13:04.000 –> 00:13:04.000

right,

00:13:05.000 –> 00:13:06.000

to be pissed,

00:13:06.000 –> 00:13:08.000

you know, and you, you know, it was

00:13:08.000 –> 00:13:09.000

it was a lot of leading out of

00:13:09.000 –> 00:13:12.000

fear and and stuff. And, you know, I

00:13:12.000 –> 00:13:15.000

had I re read this book called Delivering

00:13:15.000 –> 00:13:17.000

Happiness. Have you ever read that one? Sean

00:13:17.000 –> 00:13:18.000

Anchor, maybe. Tony,

00:13:19.000 –> 00:13:22.000

Shay Okay. Who, found out I never know

00:13:22.000 –> 00:13:24.000

if I’m saying his last name, right? But

00:13:24.000 –> 00:13:26.000

founded Zapos. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And,

00:13:27.000 –> 00:13:31.000

and, you know, that that just clicked all

00:13:31.000 –> 00:13:32.000

of a sudden. I mean, it was it

00:13:32.000 –> 00:13:34.000

was sometimes you read a book

00:13:34.000 –> 00:13:35.000

right when you need to read a book.

00:13:35.000 –> 00:13:37.000

Yeah. And that was that book. And it,

00:13:38.000 –> 00:13:40.000

then introduced me to,

00:13:44.000 –> 00:13:45.000

tribal leadership.

00:13:46.000 –> 00:13:48.000

And so tribal leadership then kind of like,

00:13:49.000 –> 00:13:51.000

gave that a voice, gave that a language,

00:13:51.000 –> 00:13:52.000

you know, and, you know, we started to

00:13:52.000 –> 00:13:54.000

talk about, you know,

00:13:56.000 –> 00:13:56.000

we.

00:13:56.000 –> 00:14:00.000

Right? You know, and and your language and

00:14:00.000 –> 00:14:03.000

and how the way you speak really kind

00:14:03.000 –> 00:14:04.000

of affects,

00:14:04.000 –> 00:14:07.000

you know, everybody around you, and it also

00:14:07.000 –> 00:14:08.000

affects

00:14:08.000 –> 00:14:11.000

the way that you’re acting. Right? So everything’s

00:14:11.000 –> 00:14:12.000

kind of like a language.

00:14:13.000 –> 00:14:15.000

And so, you know, going from eye to

00:14:15.000 –> 00:14:18.000

we was the biggest shift in our culture.

00:14:19.000 –> 00:14:21.000

And I think that’s the most the culture

00:14:21.000 –> 00:14:23.000

part of it’s the most applicable part across

00:14:23.000 –> 00:14:25.000

the board. I love that, man. Because I

00:14:25.000 –> 00:14:26.000

it’s so true. We talk about our firm.

00:14:26.000 –> 00:14:28.000

You know, so is it my firm is

00:14:28.000 –> 00:14:30.000

our firm and and my business partner and

00:14:30.000 –> 00:14:31.000

I, we’re we’re very locked in on that

00:14:31.000 –> 00:14:33.000

one because people wanna be a part of

00:14:33.000 –> 00:14:34.000

something. Right? I mean, And and at what

00:14:34.000 –> 00:14:37.000

point did you believe in hiring people? I

00:14:37.000 –> 00:14:39.000

look back at the amazing Claire back there

00:14:39.000 –> 00:14:41.000

who upset all this up. Hi, Claire. And,

00:14:42.000 –> 00:14:44.000

like, in in believing in other people and

00:14:44.000 –> 00:14:45.000

letting go. Right? Cause that was a big

00:14:45.000 –> 00:14:47.000

one for me is when you started having

00:14:47.000 –> 00:14:48.000

multiple teammates

00:14:49.000 –> 00:14:51.000

is, you know, coming from the janitor to

00:14:51.000 –> 00:14:53.000

the CEO, and now you’ve got all these

00:14:53.000 –> 00:14:55.000

people, like, at at what point was it

00:14:55.000 –> 00:14:56.000

for you? What was the a moment? Do

00:14:56.000 –> 00:14:58.000

do you recall that? Yeah. I mean, I

00:14:58.000 –> 00:14:59.000

think this was the

00:15:00.000 –> 00:15:02.000

a moment. I mean, I was so stressed

00:15:02.000 –> 00:15:04.000

out. I was stressed out.

00:15:05.000 –> 00:15:06.000

Seriously overweight,

00:15:07.000 –> 00:15:08.000

just

00:15:08.000 –> 00:15:09.000

angry.

00:15:09.000 –> 00:15:10.000

And,

00:15:10.000 –> 00:15:13.000

you know, I was just overall miserable, and

00:15:13.000 –> 00:15:13.000

I knew

00:15:14.000 –> 00:15:16.000

I think, you know, in reading this stuff,

00:15:16.000 –> 00:15:18.000

you knew that I had to do a

00:15:18.000 –> 00:15:21.000

better job at training people. Right? Yeah. And,

00:15:22.000 –> 00:15:25.000

you know, it’s started. It started with me,

00:15:25.000 –> 00:15:27.000

but then, you know, as we kind of

00:15:27.000 –> 00:15:29.000

started to come together as a group, we

00:15:29.000 –> 00:15:31.000

realized that if we can

00:15:31.000 –> 00:15:33.000

train people the right way,

00:15:34.000 –> 00:15:35.000

you know, and if we can,

00:15:36.000 –> 00:15:38.000

instill our values,

00:15:38.000 –> 00:15:39.000

across everybody,

00:15:40.000 –> 00:15:43.000

then everybody can kind of be thought leaders.

00:15:43.000 –> 00:15:45.000

Everybody can kind of start to make their

00:15:45.000 –> 00:15:47.000

own decisions based on those

00:15:47.000 –> 00:15:50.000

values. Right? And and I think that that’s

00:15:50.000 –> 00:15:52.000

the real key. It was kind of like

00:15:52.000 –> 00:15:53.000

distilling our core values,

00:15:53.000 –> 00:15:56.000

figuring out what made us tick. Yeah. And

00:15:56.000 –> 00:15:59.000

then maybe how to teach people how to

00:15:59.000 –> 00:16:01.000

think like that. Do you articulate those values

00:16:01.000 –> 00:16:02.000

to people? Like, would would they be able

00:16:02.000 –> 00:16:03.000

to say, hey, maybe they’re on the wall

00:16:03.000 –> 00:16:05.000

or whatever? Like, They’re they’re not on the

00:16:05.000 –> 00:16:07.000

wall. We we’d we’d do our Brett. And

00:16:07.000 –> 00:16:10.000

we we keep it pretty Brett simple. We

00:16:10.000 –> 00:16:11.000

only have five

00:16:11.000 –> 00:16:13.000

five core values.

00:16:13.000 –> 00:16:15.000

So That’s awesome. Yeah. But they can articulate

00:16:15.000 –> 00:16:17.000

those, which is a big deal. So how

00:16:17.000 –> 00:16:18.000

how do you then adapt to change? So

00:16:18.000 –> 00:16:20.000

that was a change. Right? Now, hey, I’m

00:16:20.000 –> 00:16:22.000

moving forward. I’ve got these amazing people. I’m

00:16:22.000 –> 00:16:24.000

a be a better boss. How did you

00:16:24.000 –> 00:16:26.000

adapt to change now to take it to

00:16:26.000 –> 00:16:28.000

the level you’ve taken it to today? Yeah.

00:16:28.000 –> 00:16:30.000

I think that was kind of a one

00:16:30.000 –> 00:16:31.000

foot in front of the other. You know,

00:16:31.000 –> 00:16:33.000

I think I came back from, you know,

00:16:33.000 –> 00:16:35.000

I at that time, I was on this

00:16:35.000 –> 00:16:37.000

long Gilliland,

00:16:37.000 –> 00:16:38.000

came back from this trip, you know, just

00:16:38.000 –> 00:16:41.000

charged, right? And, you know, let’s go. We’re

00:16:41.000 –> 00:16:43.000

gonna change everything overnight.

00:16:45.000 –> 00:16:46.000

And, you know, quickly realized

00:16:47.000 –> 00:16:48.000

that that

00:16:48.000 –> 00:16:51.000

that doesn’t happen. Yep. In fact, I think

00:16:51.000 –> 00:16:54.000

when I told her now director of service,

00:16:55.000 –> 00:16:57.000

but she was a a server at the

00:16:57.000 –> 00:16:58.000

time. I told her that we were, you

00:16:58.000 –> 00:17:01.000

know, gonna be making these changes. She just

00:17:01.000 –> 00:17:04.000

laughed. Yeah. She Right? I believe when I

00:17:04.000 –> 00:17:05.000

see it, dude.

00:17:05.000 –> 00:17:07.000

Absolutely. And rightly so. Right? You know? But

00:17:07.000 –> 00:17:08.000

I think you gotta show up every day.

00:17:08.000 –> 00:17:10.000

Right? I mean, that’s the thing I think

00:17:10.000 –> 00:17:12.000

about when growing a business is even on

00:17:12.000 –> 00:17:14.000

the days you don’t wanna show up, you

00:17:14.000 –> 00:17:15.000

show up. And you gotta walk the walk,

00:17:15.000 –> 00:17:16.000

you know.

00:17:17.000 –> 00:17:19.000

Yeah. That’s amazing. So, again, change, talk about

00:17:19.000 –> 00:17:21.000

COVID, man. That that had to be of

00:17:21.000 –> 00:17:23.000

any business that had to be one of

00:17:23.000 –> 00:17:26.000

the biggest people, I think, in hospitality, to

00:17:26.000 –> 00:17:28.000

make a change, right, during all that. What

00:17:28.000 –> 00:17:29.000

what did you learn

00:17:29.000 –> 00:17:31.000

as a leader, as an owner, as an

00:17:31.000 –> 00:17:31.000

entrepreneur,

00:17:31.000 –> 00:17:33.000

as a dad? Like, what did you learn

00:17:33.000 –> 00:17:36.000

during that time frame? In COVID? Yeah. Oh

00:17:36.000 –> 00:17:37.000

my god.

00:17:39.000 –> 00:17:41.000

God, that was really horrible. Wasn’t it? Yeah.

00:17:42.000 –> 00:17:44.000

No. I, you know, I think we were

00:17:44.000 –> 00:17:44.000

fortunately

00:17:47.000 –> 00:17:50.000

you know, hitting hitting peak culture

00:17:50.000 –> 00:17:52.000

at that time, which was awesome because it

00:17:52.000 –> 00:17:53.000

really

00:17:54.000 –> 00:17:55.000

You know, it really no. I really mean

00:17:55.000 –> 00:17:58.000

it was awesome because it it really,

00:17:58.000 –> 00:18:01.000

everybody was working so well together.

00:18:02.000 –> 00:18:04.000

And I think we needed that. Right? We

00:18:04.000 –> 00:18:06.000

needed that to get through. We needed everybody

00:18:06.000 –> 00:18:09.000

kind of, you know, firing on all cylinders

00:18:09.000 –> 00:18:11.000

thinking about everybody else. And,

00:18:12.000 –> 00:18:15.000

you know, thinking about ourselves is is one

00:18:15.000 –> 00:18:17.000

large team. And I think that’s what really,

00:18:17.000 –> 00:18:19.000

you know, if if if COVID taught me

00:18:19.000 –> 00:18:21.000

anything is that that works.

00:18:21.000 –> 00:18:24.000

Yeah. You know, and that that’s really important.

00:18:24.000 –> 00:18:26.000

And you saw, I think a lot of

00:18:26.000 –> 00:18:28.000

other businesses, all of a sudden, trying to

00:18:28.000 –> 00:18:29.000

kinda scramble,

00:18:30.000 –> 00:18:32.000

you know, to to work on this culture

00:18:32.000 –> 00:18:33.000

thing,

00:18:33.000 –> 00:18:36.000

when all their employees left, you know, and

00:18:36.000 –> 00:18:38.000

I think we were in a great great

00:18:38.000 –> 00:18:38.000

position,

00:18:39.000 –> 00:18:41.000

because of that. Yeah. It’s funny you talk

00:18:41.000 –> 00:18:44.000

about that culture is during COVID for us,

00:18:44.000 –> 00:18:46.000

it was, you know, being in the finance

00:18:46.000 –> 00:18:47.000

world. We were able to obviously have conference

00:18:47.000 –> 00:18:48.000

calls and Zoom calls and do a lot

00:18:48.000 –> 00:18:50.000

of stuff with clients, but,

00:18:50.000 –> 00:18:52.000

you know, as a as a leader, we

00:18:52.000 –> 00:18:53.000

had to make a decision that people weren’t

00:18:53.000 –> 00:18:55.000

gonna come in the office Gilliland by about

00:18:55.000 –> 00:18:57.000

July, I think it was July of twenty

00:18:57.000 –> 00:18:58.000

twenty. So only three or four months into

00:18:58.000 –> 00:19:01.000

this, our culture said to us,

00:19:01.000 –> 00:19:02.000

we wanna be back together.

00:19:03.000 –> 00:19:04.000

You know, and so it’s like it was

00:19:04.000 –> 00:19:06.000

starting to have a negative effect by not

00:19:06.000 –> 00:19:07.000

being together on us. Right? And so it

00:19:07.000 –> 00:19:08.000

was cool to be able to make that

00:19:08.000 –> 00:19:11.000

change and be like, alright. Signed this form

00:19:11.000 –> 00:19:12.000

every day. We’re not taking responsibility to show

00:19:12.000 –> 00:19:14.000

up and get sick because nobody knew at

00:19:14.000 –> 00:19:16.000

that time. And Yeah. People started showing back

00:19:16.000 –> 00:19:18.000

up, and it was amazing how that culture

00:19:18.000 –> 00:19:20.000

and those values and that connection was super

00:19:20.000 –> 00:19:22.000

important to people Yeah. That made our our

00:19:22.000 –> 00:19:24.000

culture start to go in in the right

00:19:24.000 –> 00:19:27.000

direction again, which was a big moment. Yeah.

00:19:27.000 –> 00:19:29.000

I think kinda let everybody take it the

00:19:29.000 –> 00:19:29.000

way they

00:19:30.000 –> 00:19:32.000

they were ready to take it. Yeah. Right?

00:19:32.000 –> 00:19:34.000

You know, I think there were people that

00:19:34.000 –> 00:19:35.000

were ready to come back and

00:19:36.000 –> 00:19:39.000

and and work, and we all kind of,

00:19:39.000 –> 00:19:41.000

you know, did that. And we tried to

00:19:41.000 –> 00:19:44.000

do that in the safest way possible, and

00:19:44.000 –> 00:19:44.000

and,

00:19:45.000 –> 00:19:46.000

you know, worked a lot with, you know,

00:19:46.000 –> 00:19:50.000

a lot of the community leaders, the doctors

00:19:50.000 –> 00:19:51.000

in the area that were kind of advising

00:19:51.000 –> 00:19:54.000

us and in in giving us good intel

00:19:54.000 –> 00:19:56.000

on on how we could maybe do it

00:19:56.000 –> 00:19:57.000

more safely

00:19:58.000 –> 00:20:00.000

and, trying to help our friends do the

00:20:00.000 –> 00:20:01.000

exact same things.

00:20:01.000 –> 00:20:03.000

And, you know, I think,

00:20:04.000 –> 00:20:05.000

again, we we we had a lot of

00:20:05.000 –> 00:20:07.000

voices on the team, and,

00:20:08.000 –> 00:20:10.000

we all worked together really well to kind

00:20:10.000 –> 00:20:11.000

of push ourselves

00:20:12.000 –> 00:20:15.000

through a really, really rough time. So on

00:20:15.000 –> 00:20:16.000

the adapting to change,

00:20:17.000 –> 00:20:18.000

talk about needs. You you’ve talked about the

00:20:18.000 –> 00:20:20.000

restaurant. And and you decided to close it

00:20:20.000 –> 00:20:21.000

when it was

00:20:22.000 –> 00:20:24.000

booming. Right? Successful. And so, again, last night,

00:20:24.000 –> 00:20:26.000

I’m doing my work. I’m researching you. And

00:20:26.000 –> 00:20:27.000

I know the story. Right? I was in

00:20:27.000 –> 00:20:29.000

St. That happened and and like, hey, there’s

00:20:29.000 –> 00:20:31.000

a successful restaurant close, and you normally hear

00:20:31.000 –> 00:20:33.000

the other way. Right? So it’s a head

00:20:33.000 –> 00:20:35.000

scratcher as a business leader. This thing’s working

00:20:35.000 –> 00:20:37.000

the guy had the guts to go out

00:20:37.000 –> 00:20:39.000

there and close a successful restaurant.

00:20:39.000 –> 00:20:41.000

Walk me through that. What the hell was

00:20:41.000 –> 00:20:43.000

going on in your mind when that happened?

00:20:44.000 –> 00:20:47.000

You know, I think Nish was always tough.

00:20:47.000 –> 00:20:50.000

Right? And Nish was a very tough restaurant

00:20:50.000 –> 00:20:51.000

to

00:20:51.000 –> 00:20:54.000

operate. And, you know, we started in two

00:20:54.000 –> 00:20:56.000

thousand five, and I think we

00:20:56.000 –> 00:20:59.000

closed it in in what, two thousand, and,

00:21:00.000 –> 00:21:01.000

seventeen.

00:21:02.000 –> 00:21:04.000

You know, so that that’s a very long

00:21:04.000 –> 00:21:06.000

run for that restaurant. It was a very

00:21:06.000 –> 00:21:06.000

personal

00:21:07.000 –> 00:21:08.000

restaurant.

00:21:08.000 –> 00:21:09.000

And, you know, I know

00:21:10.000 –> 00:21:12.000

that I had just passed the reins off

00:21:12.000 –> 00:21:15.000

in two thousand fifteen as chef to Nate

00:21:15.000 –> 00:21:19.000

Hariford, who now is the successful chicken scratch

00:21:19.000 –> 00:21:19.000

restaurant.

00:21:22.000 –> 00:21:23.000

And I just

00:21:24.000 –> 00:21:26.000

You know, it was it was

00:21:26.000 –> 00:21:28.000

it was it’s such a good point that

00:21:28.000 –> 00:21:29.000

I never really wanted this this restaurant

00:21:33.000 –> 00:21:36.000

to start falling backwards. Yep. And I never

00:21:36.000 –> 00:21:38.000

wanted to, you know, be ten years down

00:21:38.000 –> 00:21:39.000

the road from there

00:21:41.000 –> 00:21:44.000

with everybody being like, oh, yeah. There’s there’s

00:21:44.000 –> 00:21:46.000

niche. It’s still there.

00:21:46.000 –> 00:21:48.000

You know, like Same old thing. Not the

00:21:48.000 –> 00:21:50.000

hot spot anymore or whatever. You know, I

00:21:50.000 –> 00:21:53.000

just I I I wanted it to, you

00:21:53.000 –> 00:21:55.000

know, I wanted the legacy of niche,

00:21:56.000 –> 00:21:58.000

you know, to, to end right there. It

00:21:58.000 –> 00:22:00.000

was kinda like that. That moment. We had

00:22:00.000 –> 00:22:02.000

won the James Beard award two years before.

00:22:03.000 –> 00:22:04.000

It was just kind of

00:22:05.000 –> 00:22:07.000

it just felt like that time. Yeah.

00:22:07.000 –> 00:22:09.000

Well, take some guts, man. Well, I don’t

00:22:09.000 –> 00:22:11.000

know if it’s guts here. Just so we’re

00:22:11.000 –> 00:22:12.000

always here. I I think it it is

00:22:12.000 –> 00:22:14.000

amazing, but it but you’re right. It’s like

00:22:14.000 –> 00:22:15.000

you were talking about our, you know, you

00:22:15.000 –> 00:22:16.000

have a senior, I have a senior.

00:22:16.000 –> 00:22:18.000

Is it’d be like holding our kids back,

00:22:18.000 –> 00:22:20.000

right, not letting them go. And I think

00:22:20.000 –> 00:22:22.000

your decision to close that was probably has

00:22:22.000 –> 00:22:23.000

catapulted you into another level of belief

00:22:26.000 –> 00:22:28.000

growth and expectations. Would you agree with that?

00:22:28.000 –> 00:22:30.000

Yeah. And I think, you know, it’s just

00:22:30.000 –> 00:22:33.000

kind of it’s it’s allowed us to change

00:22:34.000 –> 00:22:36.000

what we do and what I do specifically

00:22:36.000 –> 00:22:38.000

Yep. For the company, you know, as opposed

00:22:38.000 –> 00:22:39.000

to, you know, being on the line or

00:22:39.000 –> 00:22:40.000

or whatever on on

00:22:42.000 –> 00:22:44.000

such a regular basis,

00:22:45.000 –> 00:22:47.000

and kind of, you know, traveling to represent

00:22:47.000 –> 00:22:49.000

niche around the country, which I was doing

00:22:49.000 –> 00:22:50.000

all the time.

00:22:51.000 –> 00:22:53.000

You know, this allowed me to kind of

00:22:53.000 –> 00:22:54.000

really be the CEO

00:22:55.000 –> 00:22:57.000

of the company. Yeah. And I actually

00:22:57.000 –> 00:22:59.000

do the things that I needed to do

00:22:59.000 –> 00:23:01.000

to to grow the company and to, you

00:23:01.000 –> 00:23:02.000

know,

00:23:03.000 –> 00:23:05.000

give back to our investors and and

00:23:05.000 –> 00:23:07.000

and help us Brett to the next level.

00:23:07.000 –> 00:23:09.000

How hard was it for you to leave

00:23:09.000 –> 00:23:11.000

the kitchen and get into, again, the the

00:23:11.000 –> 00:23:13.000

boardroom, if you will, how hard was that

00:23:13.000 –> 00:23:14.000

for you? It’s still hard.

00:23:15.000 –> 00:23:17.000

Yeah. That’s your passion. That’s your baby. I

00:23:17.000 –> 00:23:20.000

I enjoy cooking. I really do. And,

00:23:21.000 –> 00:23:23.000

I wouldn’t say I’m the best CEO in

00:23:23.000 –> 00:23:23.000

the world

00:23:24.000 –> 00:23:26.000

You know, I’m I I know there there’s

00:23:26.000 –> 00:23:28.000

there’s far better than than me out there.

00:23:28.000 –> 00:23:31.000

I’m constantly trying, but, you know, it it’s

00:23:31.000 –> 00:23:33.000

tough to to step away and just kind

00:23:33.000 –> 00:23:35.000

of do what you need to do at

00:23:35.000 –> 00:23:37.000

the time versus what you want to do

00:23:37.000 –> 00:23:40.000

at the time. So talk about building brand.

00:23:40.000 –> 00:23:42.000

Obviously, the the the niche group, because there

00:23:42.000 –> 00:23:44.000

are heavy restaurants total are there right now?

00:23:44.000 –> 00:23:44.000

God.

00:23:45.000 –> 00:23:47.000

Well, we have some shifting going on right

00:23:47.000 –> 00:23:49.000

now. So it’s it’s messing with my car

00:23:49.000 –> 00:23:51.000

at the end of January. A little bit.

00:23:51.000 –> 00:23:54.000

You know, we’ve, cinder house, has closed.

00:23:56.000 –> 00:23:58.000

And Rockwell. It’s my favorite chicken sandwich downtown

00:23:58.000 –> 00:24:00.000

here. So the period period? Yeah.

00:24:01.000 –> 00:24:02.000

I’m sorry. I don’t know what that is,

00:24:02.000 –> 00:24:03.000

but it’s some good stuff. I do a

00:24:03.000 –> 00:24:06.000

meeting there once a quarter. Yeah. Every quarter,

00:24:06.000 –> 00:24:08.000

I do a meeting there, an off-site retreat.

00:24:08.000 –> 00:24:10.000

So I anybody listening. Take your team off-site.

00:24:10.000 –> 00:24:11.000

You go somewhere. You learn. You you think

00:24:11.000 –> 00:24:12.000

you strategize.

00:24:13.000 –> 00:24:14.000

We always went there, and that’s a chicken

00:24:14.000 –> 00:24:16.000

sandwich I had every time. Yeah. No. I

00:24:16.000 –> 00:24:18.000

s senator I was one of my favorite

00:24:18.000 –> 00:24:19.000

places.

00:24:20.000 –> 00:24:22.000

But, you know, it it’s business. We,

00:24:23.000 –> 00:24:25.000

you know, we had a five year contract

00:24:25.000 –> 00:24:26.000

and,

00:24:26.000 –> 00:24:28.000

you know, they’re owned by,

00:24:29.000 –> 00:24:31.000

Caesar’s Palace, Okay. And, you know, they wanna

00:24:31.000 –> 00:24:33.000

do something, I think, a little more bagasse.

00:24:34.000 –> 00:24:36.000

And, you know, it’s not your style.

00:24:37.000 –> 00:24:39.000

Well, I, you know, I it’s also just

00:24:39.000 –> 00:24:41.000

not me. I’m not I’m not from Vegas.

00:24:41.000 –> 00:24:43.000

You know, I am not a Vegas restaurant.

00:24:43.000 –> 00:24:44.000

Oh, it’s funny.

00:24:45.000 –> 00:24:47.000

But a brands for what strategies,

00:24:47.000 –> 00:24:49.000

maybe mindset, thoughts do you have when you

00:24:49.000 –> 00:24:52.000

think about your brands, you name your brands,

00:24:52.000 –> 00:24:54.000

you design your brands, what what does that

00:24:54.000 –> 00:24:56.000

look like? What’s that process look like for

00:24:56.000 –> 00:24:56.000

you?

00:24:57.000 –> 00:24:59.000

Yeah. So I a lot of research,

00:25:00.000 –> 00:25:02.000

you know, we really wanna kind of dive

00:25:02.000 –> 00:25:02.000

into

00:25:03.000 –> 00:25:04.000

that world,

00:25:04.000 –> 00:25:07.000

whatever that might be. And,

00:25:07.000 –> 00:25:10.000

you know, so for the, you know, Craft

00:25:10.000 –> 00:25:13.000

cocktail world. Fortunately, it’s one that we’ve been

00:25:13.000 –> 00:25:15.000

in for a long time because

00:25:15.000 –> 00:25:18.000

taste, you know, was one of the

00:25:19.000 –> 00:25:21.000

one of the, you know, kind of original

00:25:21.000 –> 00:25:23.000

craft cocktail bars in the country. I mean,

00:25:23.000 –> 00:25:26.000

there was, you know, there was a couple

00:25:26.000 –> 00:25:28.000

dozen at the time that we that we

00:25:28.000 –> 00:25:29.000

opened. So,

00:25:30.000 –> 00:25:34.000

really kind of immersing ourselves in that experience

00:25:34.000 –> 00:25:36.000

and just kinda going through all the details,

00:25:36.000 –> 00:25:38.000

you know, what What what does the menu

00:25:38.000 –> 00:25:40.000

look like? What do people

00:25:40.000 –> 00:25:43.000

really enjoy? What do people want?

00:25:43.000 –> 00:25:45.000

Is this a, you know, luxurious

00:25:45.000 –> 00:25:47.000

experience, or is it a kind of divey

00:25:47.000 –> 00:25:50.000

experience? Is this, you know, which this is

00:25:50.000 –> 00:25:50.000

decidedly

00:25:51.000 –> 00:25:52.000

luxurious?

00:25:53.000 –> 00:25:54.000

Know, how do we want the service to

00:25:54.000 –> 00:25:56.000

be? How do we want the

00:25:56.000 –> 00:25:58.000

the servers to

00:25:58.000 –> 00:26:01.000

to dress? How do we want

00:26:02.000 –> 00:26:04.000

the ice to look. What is the lighting?

00:26:04.000 –> 00:26:06.000

You know, I mean, there’s we we try

00:26:06.000 –> 00:26:08.000

to really dive into every little piece

00:26:10.000 –> 00:26:12.000

of that restaurant in that genre,

00:26:13.000 –> 00:26:15.000

to try to get it right. Big guys

00:26:15.000 –> 00:26:16.000

are little eyes for the bourbon.

00:26:17.000 –> 00:26:20.000

For me, no ice. No ice. Yeah.

00:26:20.000 –> 00:26:22.000

But, you know,

00:26:22.000 –> 00:26:25.000

for if I’m drinking gin and soda,

00:26:26.000 –> 00:26:28.000

I have a thing where I actually don’t

00:26:28.000 –> 00:26:30.000

like the big ice cube because I kind

00:26:30.000 –> 00:26:32.000

of want it to to keep melting a

00:26:32.000 –> 00:26:35.000

little bit. Yeah. I think the big ice

00:26:35.000 –> 00:26:37.000

has its place. Yeah. You know,

00:26:37.000 –> 00:26:39.000

when you don’t want any dilution, you just

00:26:39.000 –> 00:26:41.000

want it kind of cold.

00:26:41.000 –> 00:26:43.000

But if you wanna kinda dilute it, I

00:26:43.000 –> 00:26:45.000

like the, I like the little eyes. I’m

00:26:45.000 –> 00:26:47.000

a big ice guy in the bourbon. Yeah.

00:26:47.000 –> 00:26:48.000

Not that you really care, but,

00:26:50.000 –> 00:26:50.000

so,

00:26:51.000 –> 00:26:52.000

locations. So I think for me, we have

00:26:52.000 –> 00:26:54.000

eight office locations, and I think, you know,

00:26:54.000 –> 00:26:56.000

the hardest part is when you had one,

00:26:56.000 –> 00:26:57.000

you could walk to go get a cup

00:26:57.000 –> 00:26:59.000

of water and and touch everybody in your

00:26:59.000 –> 00:27:02.000

Right? Now with eight locations, you can’t do

00:27:02.000 –> 00:27:03.000

that. And you may go months, right, without

00:27:03.000 –> 00:27:06.000

seeing somebody. So how do you, one,

00:27:06.000 –> 00:27:09.000

touch everybody in in the company, but number

00:27:09.000 –> 00:27:12.000

two, how do you, expect the the customer

00:27:12.000 –> 00:27:14.000

service to be this, not necessarily the same,

00:27:14.000 –> 00:27:16.000

but high value, high customer service at all

00:27:16.000 –> 00:27:17.000

the locations?

00:27:17.000 –> 00:27:19.000

Yeah. I mean, number one, your manager is

00:27:19.000 –> 00:27:22.000

everything. Yeah. Right. Your your GM

00:27:23.000 –> 00:27:23.000

is

00:27:24.000 –> 00:27:26.000

is the place. You know, whether you whether

00:27:26.000 –> 00:27:28.000

whether you think you’re the place or or

00:27:28.000 –> 00:27:29.000

not, like that your

00:27:30.000 –> 00:27:32.000

your GM is is the person for better

00:27:32.000 –> 00:27:35.000

or worse. So, you know, hiring that person’s

00:27:35.000 –> 00:27:36.000

huge.

00:27:38.000 –> 00:27:39.000

You know, I think always trying to keep

00:27:39.000 –> 00:27:40.000

communication

00:27:40.000 –> 00:27:42.000

channels open somehow.

00:27:42.000 –> 00:27:44.000

Something that we’ve always kind of worked on

00:27:44.000 –> 00:27:46.000

and, you know, we’ve we’ve used to different

00:27:46.000 –> 00:27:48.000

things like the local company here, Bonfire,

00:27:50.000 –> 00:27:52.000

or even just kinda like WhatsApp threads Mhmm.

00:27:53.000 –> 00:27:55.000

Stuff like that to really try to

00:27:55.000 –> 00:27:57.000

to keep that connection

00:27:58.000 –> 00:28:00.000

going. You know? So even if you it,

00:28:00.000 –> 00:28:02.000

you know, be there in person. Like, for

00:28:02.000 –> 00:28:02.000

instance,

00:28:02.000 –> 00:28:05.000

Nashville, I I can only get there. Usually

00:28:05.000 –> 00:28:08.000

for one week, every five weeks. It used

00:28:08.000 –> 00:28:10.000

to be once a month. Now it’s every

00:28:10.000 –> 00:28:10.000

five weeks.

00:28:12.000 –> 00:28:14.000

You know, so you you still have to

00:28:14.000 –> 00:28:16.000

kind of keep some dialogue. And so you

00:28:16.000 –> 00:28:18.000

know, and I’ll I’ll go through different things

00:28:18.000 –> 00:28:21.000