Branding expert Jay Mandel says marketing and life have a lot in common. The age-old rules don’t apply anymore, nor does the notion of following a granular path. To unlock authentic potential, he says, you must look beyond what’s inherently visible and break free from the expectations of others.

It was that mindset that helped Jay find authenticity, purpose, and personal fulfillment, both in marketing and in life. And it’s a message that he willingly shares as a business owner, consultant, professor, and author, including in his new book Brand Strategy in Three Steps: A Purpose-Driven Approach to Branding.

For Jay, self-discovery is the first step toward establishing one’s brand, driving purpose initiatives, and creating movements. In this episode of Beyond Profit, a podcast of the ANA Center for Brand Purpose, Jay joins host Ken Beaulieu to discuss his own transformative journey, ways to find purpose in the workplace, how to design a purposeful roadmap for marketing, and more.