In the world of espionage, how many threads are unwoven?  In this installment of the podcast, Larry chats with author of the book The Peacock and the Sparrow, I. S. Berry.  Larry talks of origin stories and asks when a child, where did the door open up to have a thought to be a writer?  Ilana shares how she came to work as a spy with her beginnings in law.  Larry poses the idea of the importance of trees in storytelling and Ilana shares how the “spy business” is the only career that is made or broken (or even life threatening) by bonds with strangers.  Ilana also delves into the nature of manipulation and when you become a master at it, you sometimes cannot see when it is you who are manipulated.