Podcast Episode – Michael de Souza

Hi, and welcome to another episode of the Aquatic Mentors podcast. It's great to have you onboard, I’m your host Katrina van Eyk and today we're going to be talking to the amazing Michael de Souza. Now Michael de Souza is a Caribbean born man who lives in London. He's fantastic swim teacher, who's using his background to expand and encourage kids to swim in a really fun and exciting way.

So, we talked today with Michael about how he learned to swim and how his journey started and what he brings to the swimming industry and to the kids that he teaches. So, Michael's had a lot of time teaching celebrities, children to swim. So, quite a few celebrities in London and around the UK, got him to teach their children to swim and they had a lot of farmers, a lot of entertainment, a lot of joking and a lot of rhymes brought into his teaching and we talk about the future and what he sees for it. And we also talk about his amazing talents as a writer. Now Michael wrote books about a mouse called Rastamouse and his crew Da Easy Crew and his books are fantastic, and they have been made into a TV series, which is played here in Australia called Rastamouse. He is now developing other books that are related to swimming as is one of his main passions and I really can't wait to be able to read them and show them to my students and my children.

So, I hope you really enjoy this episode. I had a lot of fun and I learned a lot from it. He has a lot of wisdom and knowledge to share with us, but I've also left the little sacred in the end of the episode for you, just for a bit of laughs. Alright, enjoy it. And we started at podcasts with Michael de Souza and we are asking him where he started his journey and swimming.

How did I start my swimming?

Yes, your journey in swimming.

Well, basically as a self-taught swimmer, I was very, very scared of swimming, petrified actually and, I eventually taught myself. That's how I got into swimming, just teach myself.

Wow, good work. So, you just threw yourself in the deep end and off you went.

Well, I wouldn't say deep end. I would say very much the shallow end.

Good point. Do you find that helps you when you are teaching other kids that are scared?

Well, absolutely, totally and completely, because I would say I understand fear of water very, very, very well. Like I can recognize it from 500m, to be honest with you, I've seen it in all forms, guises. People pretend with ego and they say I'm all right, but, you know, because I know it couldn't have been anyone more frightened than myself in the water. So, you know, I more say to myself that I'm more about someone that eradicates fear as opposed to just being a swimming teacher, specialising in eradicated fear.

Wow, I really like that. That's a good way of putting it, eradicating the fear from swimming. What a good idea. What's been your biggest lesson that you've learned through swimming?

I think what I've learned that it's a great equalizer. It doesn't matter what you look like, sex, age, height, build it doesn't matter. Once you got the love of the water, anyone could really enjoy it and look wonderful in water.

Perfect! I really liked that and I feel the same and I know on land I'm not so elegant, but once I'm in the water, I feel as elegant as dolphin and a mermaid and that's the same for everyone, I think.

Absolutely, yeah. That's one thing I've definitely done.

And what's been your biggest highlight of your swimming journey?

There were a couple of things, right? One student, people was said that he didn't concentrate and what not. Anyway, after teaching him, he entered this new competition in Spain, held by the King of Spain and he won a gold medal.

People, found it difficult to teach him, but I didn't find it difficult at all. That is the main one really. And then the biggest thing for me was going to Sri Lanka after the tsunami in 2005, 2006, I was invited over there to teach 69 children to get them into the water. It’s as a big highlight.

Wow, 69. That would be just amazing, the whole fear factor involved in that would just be amazing to be able to push them through that and get them in.

Yeah, completely and the thing is, some of them hadn't been in water before. Some of them were going to return to the water, but equally as well, they've never been in a swimming pool and fortunately for us, there was a, one of the people that sponsored me. She had a friend, I think his name is Jeffery Bauer, an architect. He owned a property in Sri Lanka. So, I asked him if we could use the swimming pool and we got the students in there. It's the first time they'd ever been in a swimming pool and I managed to get 65 of them in that week in the swimming pool in the deep end.

Wow, that’s fantastic.

Yeah, it was fantastic.

That's great and that shows a lot to the power of swimming and your teaching skills and what you've been able to do to be able to get people in there, and especially not coming from Sri Lanka and having to deal with sort of the cultural background and be able to get them in the water and get them skills. That's fantastic.

Yeah, it is quite interesting as well, because obviously there was a language barrier, but what I decided to do was try to have a common language that neither of us knew too great, which was Italian. So, when they did something, I'd say ‘Fantastico and Bravo’ and they loved it.

What a great way of looking at it. I would have never thought of something like that.

Yeah, because they don't speak my language, I don’t speak their language. Do you know what I mean? I thought let's meet in the middle, you know, it's like that.

Yep, oh wow, so smart. So, no wonder the kids relate to you so well to be able to think outside the box like that.

Yeah, that's what you got to do with children. You know, you have to, you have to think outside the box also, it mustn’t be predictable. Cause I think when you are predictable swimming could be a bit boring, you know?

Yeah, that's right. And that's the thing I think for teachers, a lot of swimming has to be repetitive because that's how kids at that age learn. But it's about being repetitive with the skills, but the way you teach it being different.

Absolutely. Look, the thing is right. At the end of the day, when you're swimming, your arms bends and straightens, your legs bend and straighten and they'll kick up and they don't do much else. So, it's how many different ways you can persuade someone to do that. So, I've been dealing with children, their whole world is about play. You've got massive scope there. So, you know, it's just a blank canvas, really? That you can fill up.

That's brilliant. Wow, that's great thinking. And that is it. They are a blank canvas. Swimming is something that we can fill their lives with and expand in so many ways. It becomes, you know, a lot of people I've spoken to have said that swimming, it's not just confidence in the water. It's confidence in their whole life as well.

Most definitely. It seemed to me like you were gonna say that. And I said, if you weren't, I would have said it because there's been many, many occasions where I've had taught children and the parents have said to me, listen, it's made such a difference right across the board is lifted up their confidence in every aspect of their life, which is brilliant.

Yeah, it is great. And I find that here in Australia, because we're such a water based society that, there's so many different aquatic sports, and even, people go on holidays to the beach, people go on holidays to the rivers and they water ski and a jet boat and they do all sorts of things like that. I think having that skill and that confidence in the water, they can then do so many other activities, whether they'd be water-based or whether they're not the, they can feel confident and know that they're going to be safe while they're participating.

Yes. Yeah, exactly.

So, was there anyone that played a big role in your swimming journey? Like a mentor or family member?

Yeah. Well, when I looked at that question, I thought there were two people that influenced me and they were both when I was in primary school, one was one of my peers, Tony Nash. He was an English fellow and you know, when we come from the Caribbean, obviously none of us can swim very well, but he was like the original little English fish. He was a proper little fish. He swam good, he dived well plus he looked good in his trunks.

The other person that really was a massive influence was a teacher called Mr. Limerick. He was from Australia and in our primary school every Friday, he used to show us real to real life films of Sydney, films of Australian divers, swimmers, Mexican cliff divers and that's where I got my love for diving and swimming. Cause I loved diving. Anything to do the water by that time.

Yeah, it was funny. Cause it was the first time I'd met an Australian. This was like 60, 65, 66.

So, he made a good impression for all of Australia then?

Absolutely. Most definitely.

Oh, phew. That's good.

So, you overcame your fear of swimming quite early. I gathered that it was later in life, teenager or going into your twenties, but it sounds like you overcame that fear earlier.

So, quite early. I was nine years old. The thing is I was just persevering because I mean I loved it and by that time, I started loving a lot of television programs that was sea based. Scuba diving programs. I was fascinated and even another person was Esther Williams, you know, the American Hollywood actress. I liked her swimming films. Yeah, I loved doing that. It was just such a fantasy. The thing about swimming in the water it's so magical and I say it’s the closest on earth we going to get to flying or to the sensation we are going to get to flying.

Good point, I like that and that is true. It just feels like you're flying. And when you're in the water and the whole freedom of movement, and the fact that, if you do have difficulty on land, it's just dissipates in the water.

Most definitely and the best example I can give you of that was I had to teach a young girl once, she was autistic. So, she wouldn't really look at you at all, never mind talk. So, the first lesson I followed her all around the pool, she kept walking. I followed her all around the pool, right. And the last five minutes I managed to engage with her, I got under the water. So, the next lesson instinctively, I don't know why. It was only a second lesson. I took her to the deep end, right. We went to the deep end. I went in the water, she came next to me, held onto the side and then she let go. She submerged herself and was just looking up to the surface in a dream state and from that moment on, she could swim in the deep end. She learned very, very quickly within like three weeks. You could see she was in a, a real peaceful place. Cause it's so quiet under there and with the Autistic condition it’s the noise and all that, that they find sometimes very difficult to deal with.

That is it. That's something I say when I teach new swim teachers coming through, especially with autism, they are attracted to the water. It is calming and peaceful for them and it is somewhere, if you do have an autistic child who wonders, they will look for water because that is that calming and peaceful atmosphere for them. It becomes more of a concern that we have to teach them to swim so that they're safe around the water. But to be able to see that in her eyes and see that in her face that it becomes such a dream for here and relaxed.

Yes. It was a very moving experience for me. It was very moving because I thought, wow, we look it at as sometimes we take life for granted and the simplest things you take for granted is for instance, even a little moment of peace, and real tranquillity. We don't often get that.

So right. Very, very true. And something like now when we're in lockdown, over in Australia, we're just coming out of it. But yeah, that peacefulness and that calm it's, it's something we've all been craving. It’s great we can bring that through in aquatics.

Yes.

So, with all your training and all the wisdom that you've had and all the experiences you've had in your time as a swim teacher, what advice would you give to a new swim teacher coming out now?

What I would say the first thing is make sure that you love your subject and you have the attitude that you want to pass on the love of the subject. Not feature anyone just pass on the love of it and also remember, the most important thing initially is to develop a relationship with the child quickly, make them feel at ease, make them feel that you're going to be a friend of theirs. They're not there to perform or be put under any sort of pressure. You're there to help them have a very loving, fun experience.

Good point, I really like that. And I think that's the thing, I know for me, you do get that relationship with kids that you do become like a friend to them and if you can put them at ease, the whole process of swimming and learning to swim becomes a lot easier for them.

Absolutely and I'll tell you one thing as well. I think what I've found has been lacking in a lot of teachers over the years that I've observed, right. They seem to be a bit worried about not making themselves look ridiculous in front of a child. You know that one of the things I would say to children, you know, is I don't want you to splash me. Well, you know, what's coming next don’t you.

Yeah.

Especially if it's a little child that's nervous because children want a little power. They want the power over adults to do something that an adult will make you sit up and listen. So, to me, the first thing is be prepared to make yourself look ridiculous.

I like that, it is so true. And I find that all the time.

It's just, it makes them relaxed. It's a lot of fun and who doesn't want to giggle while you're working.

Exactly because look, I’ll tell you the driving force for me Katrina with swimming, right. I'd said I'd watch swimming teachers previously, right. And I said, you know what, children play all the time and every opportunity to play they'll take it, yeah. Yet there was so many come to the swimming lessons that were stiff, they were rigid, they weren't laughing and they weren't joking in any form, yeah. I said, no, I wont a child to be able to play in the environment, but obviously to be competent, be safe and be confident, yeah. So, don't be stupid things just for the sake of play. Play safely, be aware. So that's what I wanted to make. Be able to play in any environment wet or dry.

Yeah, and that's right. My mentor, Joanne Love. She's been working with children and she's done work on the psychology side and it's been interesting. She just put an article out today on her LinkedIn about the fact that kids are looking for that play. There not looking for that competition or, you know, having to be the best. They actually want to enjoy their swimming, whether it be competitive kids or whether it be learn to swim. The whole point of getting in that water is to be free and to be able to enjoy it.

Exactly. Exactly. And to me, you know, when I became a teacher, a swimming teacher I just thought I'm really, truly blessed because I've got this opportunity now to present as much fun as possible from a totally, totally different perspective, you know, just take the children off guard, totally.

I like that, that's right. They don't know what's coming then.

No, that's right. They're done.

And you're building resilience in them because they have to do, be able to deal with every situation.

Exactly. You know, I always like to test them and mess about with the stuff. So, I mean, if I meet a child that they might be just alright at swimming, just a little bit, they might need a lot of technique or they need a bit more training than they think. So, I normally test them and say, listen, do you know a lot about swimming? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Alright. I said, I'll tell you, what could you tell me how to do the crazy crocodile? They don't know what the crazy crocodile is, Katrina. Do you know what it is?

No.

It's the professor splash, swimming stroke. I shall describe it to you and see if you can recognize it, okay.

Yes, please.

Right, you bend your arm like a boomerang, you stretch it like an Orangutan, kick awhile, turn and smile. That's the crazy crocodile.

Fantastic!

Yeah, that’s the works of Professor Splash.

The kids would love that. That would be so entertained by it.

They enjoy it and they do it. That's why I say my success rate is very, very high and children learn very quickly. Cause my aim, when anyone comes to me to swim is to teach him to swim in the first five minutes.

Wow.

That's it? That's always been my target. Five minutes, we learned to swim, get rid of the fear. Then let's get cracking and do some stuff.

Five minutes, and you've had great success with that.

Put it this way. Most children that I’ve taught learn to swim within the first half hour, because it doesn't take long because the fear, I know the fear between the nose and the mouth. Well, how long does it take to sort that out?

Not long. Oh, wow. I've never thought about it that way. That's great and that's it? It is just sorting out that fear and making them comfortable when then it all falls into place from there.

Yeah. Cause than they’ll do anything. They’ll do anything. That's what I say. So, for instance, this is a point where the teacher can be ridiculous for instance, right? You say, all right, when they reach a certain level that they could maybe do a handstand, right, in the water. You do one as a teacher, but you make sure it looks ridiculous. You lose your balance and all this business, you know. Then you get them to show you and you're applauding.

Yeah. I was reading something the other day and it was Gary Vaynerchuk. He's a personal development speaker from America and he was saying things like in his upbringing, his mother overpraised him for things like opening the door for someone else and things like that. And yeah, that's it, it's about giving them confidence in praising them when they do something really well and like you said, if you put yourself out there and look like a bit of a nuff. You can then praise them, and they think they're really special because they’ve bet the teacher in some way.

Yeah, exactly. You know, cause one of the things I tried to do as well, I make a lot of things up. As you can see the crazy crocodile, and all this bit, right. But then equally, now I say to the children, when we go in there, you show me a stroke. They show me a swim and you tell me what it's called. So sometimes they do something, right. I'll look at it and say, what's, this stroke is called, and they say, it's called twisting and turning and then stopping and jumping.

And while they're making it up, they're still learning something.

Well that’s the point you see. And the thing is you're gaining their confidence even more because they feel now that they could show you something, you've added an extra string to their bow.

Yep, that's true. I really like that. They think they've taught, taught the teacher.

Exactly and that's lovely to see because children love to teach adults, don't they?

Yeah and there's so much we can learn from them. I mean, as you said, you learned that kids like to play. There's just so much we can learn from them and their innocence as well.

Well this is it, you know, I've always put myself out there as like a children's advocate, because in most cases, they don't always get a good hearing, you know, especially in schools, you don't get chance to say much. So, when you're amongst, and then you give them the opportunity to express themself.

Yep, that's right and how much of a better society are we going to have if kids can express themselves in a sport and in things like swimming.

You know, there's so many angles on a compass and there's so many different viewpoints that you can hit things from. So, when you let a child out in a situation where they can express itself, I'll let you make some fantastic discoveries, really, you know, the way they've expressed herself.

That's right. Very, very true. I like that. I love the way you think with swimming.

I just love it. I would say that I really do. I mean, look, professor splash philosophy is this. ‘I’ll dry up your tears, take away all your fears and you'll be swimming for years.’

Oh, that's fantastic. You must come up with the best one-liners and the best rhymes.

You know, as I said, I do love it. There was another one which is called back to the future and it goes, ‘Back to the future back to the past, move your arms slowly, move your feet fast.’

Oh, that’s so cool.

You know, cause you get a feeling of giving the children something that belongs to them, you know? So, when they go home, they tell their parents what they have learnt and in most cases the parents wouldn’t know what they're talking about. If they saw it than they would know exactly what's going on, yeah.

Yeah, and that's it. I mean, kids using the words and freestyle and backstroke and all those, they're something that's been developed over the years and it, you know, kids are new, they're different. Allowing them to name it as they want just gives them that ownership to it. I like that a lot.

Yes, exactly because at the moment I'm working on a book called ‘The Swimming Lessons’. A children's book, yeah. I started writing it before Rastamouse. It's about two teachers that teach in this tropical land and one of them shouts and screams and believes that, you know, to get the children a bit nervous, that'll help her but professor splash, sings and dances and relaxes. It's a story about one particular little boy. So, I'm still working on it at the moment, yeah.

Oh, that's fantastic. Oh, well, we'd love to hear when it's all done, and we can promote it for you because that sounds like a great story for a lot of kids.

Cause there's no swimming story, you see but what I intend to do with this story obviously is put in some technical stuff but not in a technical way. So, each story would teach a different stroke, but not in a technical, technical way, you know, it's like the first one is about the front crawlers.

That's really good and it'll be great to use for Swim School’s and things like that. It would be great for kids to learn outside of the water as well. They can learn so much from a story like that. What good work. I can't wait to hear those stories and write them. I'm sure my kids would love them.

I’m trying to make them, you know, funny and enjoyable and informative as well. You know, because it's different. I've never seen a swimming story really like as such that will concentrate on the stroke, but be a story as well, yeah.

Yeah, I know there's ones that Laurie Lawrence does here in Australia and they're very much water safety, so they bring the rhyming in it and it's great for water safety but as you said, I haven't heard of anything that brings in technique. And then also the story on top.

Yeah. So, I'm working on that one, most definitely.

So, for you, what does swimming look like in the future?

I think sadly in England, it's sort of in decline, really? Because they're cutting back in schools. There is only one-year group goes for one term to swim throughout the year and they don't swim for the whole school. When you reach a certain year, then you go have one semester of swimming. So, to me it looks quite grim for children. I think more people are getting into open water swimming. I think less children are encouraged in swimming at the moment. I feel quite sad about that.

Yeah, have you had an increase, or do you think there is an increase in private swim schools or is it just at that age there just not getting involved?

Yeah, it's the age really? It's not so much, most of the leisure centres offer swimming lessons, most leisure centres, but as I say, they seem to be in a bit of declined because the amount of children that go to school doesn't reflect the number of children that get the opportunity to swim.

Oh, that's sad. I mean, that's something Australia is finding quite difficult as well and we've luckily in a couple of States we have brought in, or they hope to be mandatory swimming lessons, but highly recommended for schools to do swim lessons but again, a lot of them are only over a certain period of time. All primary school levels participate. So at least for a certain amount of time, these kids are getting yearly swimming lessons.

And it's unlike that here unfortunately. Only one-year group, I think is year three or year four and that's it. And when you swim than that’s the only time and it can be such a wonderful activity.

But one of the things I've noticed, the leisure centres charge schools, a lot of money.

Oh yeah.

They charged them a lot of money, which is really ridiculous, you know? They can just say, listen, if you do a really reasonable rate, then you'd be fully booked. The schools pay a lot, a lot of money for a short session than they can't afford to take everybody.

No, that's it. Yep and a lot of schools around here as well, find it difficult because of we’ll travel, and the costs and it adds up for schools.

Because they would be better to spend money on other things.

It would be better to offer sort of more quantity of lessons, I would have thought at a cheaper rate, I would say so.

Yeah, definitely.

So, looking into the future, how do you think as an individual or an industry, can we promote and develop, learn to swim, and encourage more participants, but with less funding?

Maybe you could organize and encouraged families swimming. You're dealing with families and so, their confidence is built up through familiarity. They know the members of the family and, you know, just basic simple things. They can have little bits of information for families and little groups, you know, and you can afford, you know, you don't have to charge the earth for something like that and then you find that less children will necessarily go to paid swimming lessons if people can't afford more but children will still be swimming in the family free swim times. So, I'll say it from that point, it's a bond for the family anyways.

Yeah. And what a perfect learning space when you've got the parents and other siblings involved and it doesn't take much to adapt an activity for different levels.

No, it does. I've always said, right. Look with swimming, people have asked me, is it more difficult to teach an adult or a child? And the way I look at it is this in swimming, an adult that can't swim me, it's usually like a child, yeah.

Yeah.

So, you adopt very similar practices and you still have that playful element, but because we still got it in us, you know, so to me, yeah. I just think that there's not much difference when you're teaching people really have to have very similar practices for old or young children or adults really.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah and I think also, like you said, with the family swimming, that's something that I know in Australia, they've been pushing as we come out of COVID, it's a lot easier to be able to bring families together and coming out of lookdown, families are looking for that connection that they've built during lockdown to be able to continue it.

Yes.

You don't have the COVID cross infection if they're all in together.

Yes.

It’s a happier and easier place.

Yes.

That’s pretty much all my questions. Did you have anything else that you wanted to share?

Yeah, I was going to ask you. Are there many black swimming teachers in Australia?

No, not well, not that I've seen really in all the conferences and things that I've been involved in. In Melbourne it may be different.

Oh, okay. Yeah, because this is another thing in England, I think as well. Because there's such a stigma with black people in swimming. I think if we had more teachers that people could look and say, well, look, it's encouraging. I'd like really to teach a group of mixed children from scratch to competitive swimming. I’d like that. Cause I don’t think any group should be excluded because it's just human beings. You know, all as human beings, no matter where you're from.

That's right. Yeah. And I mean, it's going to benefit everyone. And if you can put those role models out in the system, the other people have gone to see them. Those kids are going to see people experiencing life and experiencing swimming, and they're are going to be more inclined to do it, if they have them role models out there.

Most definitely. Because if you look at any country around the world. Certain people around by the sea, no matter where they are. Some people are very comfortable in the water. In a lot of countries, they are comfortable. It might not be a sort of national activity, but he like, for instance, in Sri Lanka, some of those people are very comfortable around the water. Some of them were very, very comfortable, the fishermen, but equally I did hear that. A few of them can't swim as well. I was a bit concerned.

I can just imagine. I mean, a prime example of that is where I am here in country, Victoria and Australia. We have a lot of Filipino immigrants coming to work in, we have a lot of piggeries here. So Filipino immigrants are coming over there. Working in the piggeries and one of the girls, her family went to Bondi beach and she got caught up in a rip and she had a bad experience and she wanted to do swimming lessons with me. I said, come on, let's go. And she has a beautiful, absolutely beautiful technique, but she said I can't swim because she'd had a drowning experience. I got her in and she was very, quite scared, but she did really, really well. She came to me a few years later and said, I want to become a swim teacher while I'm at university and I said, well, you have to understand that you can swim, but you have your limitations. She said, well, the facility she wants to work at in Melbourne is sort of waist deep for her. Like the pool doesn't get much cheaper. And I said, well, if you're comfortable with that water and you take the time to learn and develop your skills, and you're great with kids. It'll be absolutely a fantastic career for her. She did and she's gone through, and now she has a waiting list of Filipino families that want to put their kids in with her to learn to swim.

Wow, that's fantastic.

I just think that whole circle, if I turned around and said to him, no, you haven't got the confidence for it. All the families wouldn't have had anyone that they could relate to, but now she can go in and she can teach those kids and it's making that difference.

It's fantastic. You know, it just branches out and it just goes more of a web, to a bigger web, and it's fantastic.

Yep. Yeah.

You know, and just you encouraging one person can influence so many others.

You don't know, those kids can then take it up. And it's a simple thing of, yeah, she's teaching while she's at Uni, but she may continue in it and I'm keen to get her back here to the country, over the holidays to be able to teach some of the other Filipino families here.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. See, those are the sort of groups of things I'd like to work with where a group of people you're ready to teach them something new and it's exciting and fun and, and it's gonna really add something to their lives. I think projects that are very, very exciting.

Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Yeah and I think it's just doing it. It's about getting involved and, you know, finding those people and putting the word out there because yeah, if it's not offered, they're not going to do it.

No, no. You just go put the flag up there and just advertise itself.

I think it's the perfect time. I think people are looking for that sort of diversity now, and the sport's going to need it. Whether you look at the competitive side or not, we need all the involvement we can get and minority groups are the ones that are gonna make me.

Yeah. Yeah. And the thing is, it's quite, you know, when you think of like the human resolve, right? You don't know what quarter you might get a champion from, because you've got someone with a determination and they say, right, I want to be the first one or whatever to do that for my community and just that's it. You don't know what's going to come from it.

Yeah. That’s right. You don't know, unless you try, you don't know what's going to come through and they're going to be a role model for so many other people that come through.

Absolutely.

You're inspiring me to get in and do more of that.

Oh, wow. My aim right. Is to really eventually get our swimming school going again. I had a swimming school once. It was really, really good, very, very successful. It was basically I invited children from the schools that are taught to come to my school and we teach them all the technique, how to stretch out, how to do all these sort of things, but to make sure that they really do love swimming. You don't give them any regime that's going to put them off swimming, you know. That's my aim going forward to get my swimming school up and running again because after speaking to Julie-Anne, I realized that I really, really do love. I mean, really love swimming and want to just make sure that there's a, there is a legacy cause I do love, I mean, I love writing and I do love rust the mouse and I love all that. But swimming is my, is my passion.

Yeah and it'll be amazing to have, you know, we don't want your wisdom and your passion to go to waste because how many people can you influence with that. Your writing as you've told us, your writing and your swimming passion have come together, which is great. And to be able to build on that again and have that swim school would be amazing and benefit so many people.

Yeah. Yes. Yeah, exactly. Oh, let me just Katrina, let me just tell you one more thing. One little, um, it's a little swimming exercise, right?

Yeah.

And it's about, you know, when children will not go under water or people want to go in the water and they're a bit worried about it. I've got this little poem it's called bubbles and it goes like this. ‘When you go into water, you must always think, is this something I should drink? If you don't want to cough again to trouble, puffer out your cheeks and blow some nice bubbles.’

That's fantastic.

Yeah. So, you know, you get those things in your mind, then, you know, what's going on. It's simple stuff and stuff.

So relatable. Kids are going to understand that really well. It's not telling them, it's not directing them. It's just making them think.

Exactly, Cause you don't want to keep giving instructions, instructions. It's about anything on this earth, right? When you start to think about it, then you start to feel it because it's the thought that ignites the feeling. So, if you say, you know what, I'm really looking forward to this, then you're going to enjoy it. You're not going to approach it with any sort of fear or any sort of trepidation. Your mind is alert.

Yeah. That's great. I love that. You need to write a book about these, all these little poems and stories. You've got these tippets.

That's going in the Swimming Lesson. That’s going in the book. All these different things, all the different elements of learning to swim, the, you know, the floating, the treading water, the different elements that are going to be there, but in a story form. Yeah.

I mean, that's, it, there's so much research out there that we learn through stories, our ancestors telling us stories. So, that sort of thing is good to be relatable to kids because they learn from stories. I know my daughter loves to learn stuff from reading books and she comes out with so much information when she's finished reading a novel, to be able to give that to kids, you know, topic related. That would be great.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, no. Well, I'm working on that and you've encouraged me and Julie-Anne is encouraging me. So that's my the next, we’ll I'm working on one other book. I'm going to be working on two books in tandem, a little, a little rhyming book and a little swimming book. Cause I've got a little character called a little Brv.

Oh, that's fantastic.

You know, so could you want to deal with the children from all points of view? Don't, you know, you wouldn't have a little fun because I like the book is about rhyme because basically it's designed the rhymes that put out there. It meant to be recited aloud. So even though you've got them in the book, you've more got them in your head. You know, like all the little nursery rhymes that we have over years and years and years, just trying to write some new, some new, fresh ones. For the modern-day children, you know.

Good idea, I like that.

Yeah. Something a bit more relatable.

Exactly. You know? Cause it what'd you call it a little Miss Muffet. Mary had a little lamb and all that, it doesn't make sense.

No. And I don't think parents like it either. I mean, they don't engage with it as much as something that's more relatable to this day and age.

Well, that's right. I want to leave you in one, cause I know we got to go soon. I've got to leave you this one, given that we're going through this crisis, this is called health and safety.

Yep.

Right? And it goes like this. ‘Whatever you pick from your nose, please don't wipe it on your clothes. Please don't flick it on the floor or try to kick it out the door. Please don't roll it in a ball and or try to stick it on a wall. Please don't wipe it on your sleeve. Try to find a tissue please.’

That’s fantastic.

It's a whole book of those. It's a whole book of rhymes like that. So, this it. Just have we got new generation that to inspire them, to do stuff for yourself as well, keep things simple and they can do it themselves. How old are your children now? How old are your children?

I have one whose nearly four and a five and a seven-year-old.

All right, listen. This is one specially for them, so they can learn it. Yeah, cause you will record it and say it's called message from an ex baby, right? You ready?

Yeah, I'm ready.

‘I will tell you why I'm happy. I no longer wearing nappy. I no longer use a dummy ask my daddy or my mommy.’

Yeah, you can see if they can remember that.

Alright and I'll than record it and send it to you.

Indeed and now that'd be fabulous.

Oh, they're gonna love that. They're going to think it's great. Inspire so many children out there.

Oh, fantastic.

Thank you so much for that. You've been absolutely amazing, and I've learned so much and I can't wait to see where you go from here. I think you've got so much potential and so much joy to bring to swimming. I really can't wait to see what happens and I hope you get to fulfil all your dreams and we'll be watching.

Thank you very, very much and I really appreciate you offering me this opportunity to actually talk about swimming, as I said, which is something I really, really love some of my, some of our views research Australia before me.

Yeah. Yeah. That's right. You're going to have to come over to following them up. Well, you know, I'm not going to refuse that. We need to get you as a guest speaker at our conferences to get us all up with the rhymes.

Well I've usually got some free time.

That's it.

Listen Katrina, thank you very, very much.

Thank you. It's been amazing.

If it can do something to inspire kids and inspire swim teachers to have more fun and relax, it’s just great.

Yeah, yeah.