They have been circulating throughout the State since the start of the school year, impacting schools, causing fear and anxiety, and leaving people wondering what to do.

On this episode of the Supercast, we are talking with Lieutenant Jeremy Barnes of the Utah Department of Public Safety. He'll talk with us about threats that turn out to be a hoax, the impact they have on schools, and what we can do to properly report them and make sure that they don't create unnecessary panic. He'll also talk about why it's important to take every threat seriously.

Lt. Jeremy Barnes:

I compare that to maybe one of the largest terrorist attacks that we've seen in our country and it was basically able to be carried out through our own fear.

Anthony Godfrey:

Let's say a parent sees this on social media, a student sees this on social media. What is the appropriate action if they see either a very specific threat or a vague threat that feels like it could be targeted at their school?

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Hello and welcome to the Supercast. I'm your host, Superintendent Anthony Godfrey. On this episode of the Supercast, we talk with Lieutenant Jeremy Barnes of the Utah Department of Public Safety. He'll talk with us about threats that turn out to be a hoax, the impact they have on schools, and what we can do to properly report them and make sure that they don't create unnecessary panic. He'll also talk about why it's important to take every threat seriously.

[Music]

We're pleased to have Lieutenant Jeremy Barnes with us today to talk about school safety, introduce yourself, and tell us a little bit about your current position.

Lt. Jeremy Barnes:

Okay, so thank you for the introduction. I'm Lieutenant Jeremy Barnes with the Utah Department of Public Safety with the newly created Division of State Security. In my current role, I oversee, I work directly for the State Security Chief who was created under House Bill 61 in 2023. I work directly for him and we oversee a regional team of eight individuals.

The state has been broken up into eight regions with multiple districts throughout each one of those regions to help facilitate the big lift of House Bill 84 from this legislative session which includes the safety assessments and the guardian program and things like that. 

Anthony Godfrey:

We definitely want to get into the details of that. Let's start with talking a little bit about the hoaxes that we've heard about over the, probably the last year is really where they've accelerated. Talk to us a little bit about how that information comes to you and what you want parents to know about hoaxes when they're announced, when they come out.

Lt. Jeremy Barnes:

So if I could think back, so as part of my role, I have been the school safety liaison with the Utah State Board of Education School Safety Center since 2020. That is a multidisciplinary team composed of individuals from the Utah State Board of Education, Division of Substance Use and Mental Health, or Office of Substance Use and Mental Health now, and the SAFE-UT as well as the Department of Public Safety. So we work collaboratively on all things school safety. The reason I give that background, in 20, I believe it was December of 2021, the first big hoax came in and if you recall there was a TikTok, there were TikTok trends going on in the fall. It started with the devious licks and then the smack your teacher and the various things that came out was monthly challenges. In December of that year, we received information right before school was getting out for the holiday break that there was a school shooting trend. If my recollection serves, the whole point was to give a hoax of a school shooting and shut your school down. 

Throughout the nation, we were tracking it through SAFE-UT and the Statewide Information and Analysis Center which is our state's intelligence and fusion center through the Utah Department of Public Safety. We had been tracking it and trying to get the messaging out to local education agencies but during that time there was so much panic throughout the nation that was caused. Nobody felt safe sending their kids to school that day. They were concerned that there was going to be a targeted attack and so nobody felt safe sending their kids to school and they decided to hold them back from school that day. 

As I have had talks with different individuals, I compare that to maybe one of the largest terrorist attacks that we've seen in our country and it was silent. It was basically able to be carried out through our own fear because it was our fear that messaging that got out, that panic and anxiety that was created because of this situation that we knew was false. We knew it was a hoax. The panic and anxiety created such a huge traumatic experience, traumatic reaction for some that it shut down the education system throughout the nation.

Anthony Godfrey:

I like the way you describe that. It really is silent but powerful in the impact that it has on families as they make decisions about sending their students to school. But the word hoax, when we put out a message that says this is a hoax, is there cause for alarm once it's been determined to be a hoax by the public safety organizations that we work with? 

Lt. Jeremy Barnes:

Well each, you know, it's a very delicate topic when we're talking about that. And the reason I say that is yes, we may determine that it's a hoax. We may be tracking these hoaxes that are occurring throughout the nation, whether it be bomb threats, whether it be phone calls, whether it be email hoaxes. We may be tracking them and getting the information out to local education agencies. But until it happens, it hasn't happened. And so again we have the information that it's a hoax, however when it does happen we advise local education agencies, school districts, and schools themselves to remain vigilant. Adhere to your local policies and procedures. What are the practices that go into play? Still be vigilant, still be on guard, respond appropriately. But you have the ability to determine whether or not this is an actual or if it's a hoax.

When, for example, we got hit with the hoax in December of 2021 and then fast forward to March of 2023, just after the legislative session that it occurred for House Bill 61, throughout the state we received phone calls from the same individual. And it was the individual indicated that they were hiding in a bathroom and that there was an active shooter taking place. And as soon as there were 10 schools, I believe it was if I recall correctly it was 10 schools that were hit throughout the state, one school was hit twice. 

Anthony Godfrey:

With a threat.

Lt. Jeremy Barnes:

With an indicated an active shooting is happening right now. Some schools responded, I shouldn't say more appropriately than others because each of them responded within their available resources and how their policy is allowed. But there were some schools that were able to track, directly tie into the camera system into dispatch. And so they were able to track throughout the school to see, yeah nothing's happening here. They were able to tie in directly with their school resource officers and the school resource officers going through saying there's nothing here. And by the time that the information got to SIAC, we were about 45 minutes behind, 45 minutes to an hour behind on getting that information. So we really relied upon those local areas to adhere to their policies and procedures to figure out the legitimacy of what was going on. 

Once we determined that it was in fact a hoax, we were able to get that information of, okay, challenge the caller, where are they? They say they're in the bathroom, what bathroom, what floor? For example, if they say the third-floor bathroom and there's not a third floor to the school, we know it's a hoax. Have dispatchers ask certain questions that would indicate whether or not this individual was being truthful. What we found in that situation is when the dispatch was having that information or when the individual on the call with the call caller was asking these follow-up questions, the individual wasn't able to respond and they hung up. So that's some of the things to look for with these hoaxes. 

In December of 2023, we also got hit with email hoaxes throughout the state. And these email hoaxes for whatever reason, they were really targeting charter schools on this one. The other one that happened in March was kind of more of a public and then the one in December with the email hoaxes were kind of more targeted to the charter schools. There were a lot of charter schools. We were following it at SIAC for a couple of days prior to the event. 

Anthony Godfrey:

SIAC?

Lt. Jeremy Barnes:

The Statewide Information and Analysis Center, which is the state's intelligence division through the Utah Department of Public Safety. So we were tracking it in local and surrounding states, getting it out to local law enforcement saying, "Hey, heads up, this might be coming." And then it happened, and it happened fast. But the things about the emails were, we determined it was a hoax, but the things about the emails were it was very nondescript. It was bomb hoaxes. Where were the bombs being placed? It was very nondescript of where in a garbage can in a bathroom, something like that. Looking at the email address, it obviously didn't look to be appropriate. 

All of the hoaxes can be, there's certain indicators that it could be a hoax. Like I say, unknown with the area, if it's just a very vague general knowledge area, a bathroom or a trash can or left it in a nearby park. Very nondescript, could be easily copied and pasted and sent to anywhere. Another thing that we have seen is information that is shared over social media. Very vague. For example, we'll use BHS. In any state, in any locale, there's a BHS. No matter where you go, there is a BHS. 

Anthony Godfrey:

It's easy for your imagination to assume that it's your BHS that they're talking about. I want to talk a little bit about how parents and students ought to react when they do see something like that posted. We recently did have a BHS that was posted and assumed to be about local schools, various districts picked it up. In fact, it was from the Pacific Northwest, as I recall. 

Lt. Jeremy Barnes:

Yes. 

Anthony Godfrey:

So it was a genuine threat, but for a different area that had made its way. So let's say a parent sees this on social media, a student sees this on social media. What is the appropriate action if they see either a very specific threat or a vague threat that feels like it could be targeted at their school or a school in the area? 

Lt. Jeremy Barnes:

You know, and that's, again, we talk about delicate situations and we want to reduce the fear and anxiety and the panic. 

Anthony Godfrey:

Sure. 

Lt. Jeremy Barnes:

When an individual, we'll use a hypothetical, student comes home from school and sees that something has been shared over Snapchat. We'll use BHS. That individual shows it to their parents. The knee-jerk reaction, and I think a large portion of society today, would be to screenshot that and share it with friends or share it on social media to see if anybody else has seen it. Does anybody else recognize this? Is anybody else receiving the same information? That is the exact opposite of what we should be doing. We should not be sharing that. 

If we screenshot it, screenshot it, and keep it and take it to local law enforcement or take it to school administrators, school safety and security specialists, school safety and security directors, the individuals who have the knowledge to be able to determine the legitimacy of this and help work through the investigation of a potential threat. We don't want to downplay it and say that it's probably somewhere else in the nation. We don't want to downplay it. We want to ensure that we can properly look into it, properly investigate it, and determine the legitimacy of it.

Anthony Godfrey:

Take it seriously, but the way to take it seriously is not to repost. It's to take a screenshot and share it with the authorities.

Lt. Jeremy Barnes:

Exactly, because once it's shared, then it goes into that viral potential. Once it's shared, it can go out to parents, it can go out to the community, it can go out to district leadership that wasn't even in the know that it was occurring and now the Board members are being upset and they're responding to constituents. The wildfire, if you want to use that analogy, can spread so quickly when this information is shared over social media. The important thing is to take the post or take some sort of documentation of it, take it to law enforcement, take it to school officials so they can be looking into it and look for the legitimacy of it.

The other thing that's really important is that our statewide information and analysis center is consistently receiving threats or information that could be potential threats throughout the nation. We follow things. The FBI gives information to SIAC. Social media gives information to SIAC. So there is a really good possibility that if there is a legitimate threat, SIAC may know about it. And so, SIAC can be contacted through a phone number on their website, but also through email at SIAC, SIAC@utah.gov, and they consistently monitor that inbox 24 hours a day, 7 days a week looking for threats. And they're able to take those threats once they receive it and they disseminate it to local law enforcement.

Anthony Godfrey:

So if you take a screenshot of a threat or a perceived threat, SIAC@utah.gov, you send an email of that screenshot, you have reported that threat.

Lt. Jeremy Barnes:

Yes, and SIAC will begin looking into it and share that with local law enforcement.

Anthony Godfrey:

Perfect. 

Lt. Jeremy Barnes:

Part of House Bill 84 is the reporting of substantial threats. And it really is, I will say that for the majority, the state has been doing what the bill asks of them, but putting it into code really builds the relationship. And so the reporting of substantial threats comes into effect where there's really a triangulation of efforts. If a threat comes into SIAC, that threat can come in from the FBI, it can come in from Safe UT, it can come in from social media. SIAC receives the threat. They immediately report it to local law enforcement and the school of which the threat is concerning. That completes that triangulation. 

The other requirement of the bill is that if the school receives the threat, they immediately have to report it to local law enforcement, who at some point is going to share it with SIAC as well. And then if local law enforcement receives it, they immediately have to notify the school of which the threat is associated. And then at some point it gets back to SIAC. That triangulation is completed to really foster better communication. So if things are happening throughout the state, trends, things like that, we can follow that and track that, but foster that better effective communication, that trickle down information effect, so that we can really respond to these threats more appropriately.

Anthony Godfrey:

There's a really clear established channel for communication that was already there, but putting it into code, like you said, really solidified that. So when someone reports, they can feel confident that the school and state authorities are all going to be coordinating efforts right away to assess the credibility of the threat and what needs to happen as a result.

Lt. Jeremy Barnes:

Yes, and the system is not perfect. I will say the system is not perfect. 

Anthony Godfrey:

Sure. 

Lt. Jeremy Barnes:

There are hiccups that we have, and there are things that we are consistently working on from a state level to a local level to a district level of really trying to improve those channels of communication. But yes, there is, when operating at its best capabilities, there is that clear channel for the proper investigation and notification of these threats.

Anthony Godfrey:

Stay with us. When we come back, the serious consequences for anyone who perpetuates a hoax threat.

Never miss an episode of the Supercast by liking and subscribing on your favorite podcasting platform. Find transcripts for this episode and others at supercast.jordandistrict.org.

Break:

It's something all parents need to know in the event of emergency in one of our schools. Hi, I'm Matt Alvernaz, a former law enforcement officer and Army Ranger, now school safety coordinator for Jordan School District. We're talking about the Standard Response Protocol, or SRP. Knowing SRP will help to keep everyone safe and informed if there is an emergency in one of our schools or buildings. Standard Response Protocol provides consistent, clear, share language and actions for all students, staff, first responders, and parents. It is language that can be applied to any emergency situation. The SRP actions now used in all schools statewide are hold, secure, lock down, evacuate, and shelter. To educate yourself and your children on these actions, visit schoolsafety.jordansistrict.org.

Anthony Godfrey:

What are the penalties for someone who makes a threat? Say a student posts something, posts a threat about their school, or perpetuates a threat from someone else? What are the consequences of perpetuating something like that? 

Lt. Jeremy Barnes:

There are significant consequences, especially with the hoax threats. There were, based upon the hoaxes that came about in 2023, Representative Wilcox ran additional language for a bill, and HB14 was enhanced penalties for hoaxes and threats against schools. Those are intentional and knowingly, and if they're intentional and knowingly, it's a second-degree felony.

Anthony Godfrey:

So if you know that that's what you're doing, and you have the intent of creating fear or threatening a school, then those are severe consequences that somebody just posting on social media may not be thinking about in the moment. 

Lt. Jeremy Barnes:

Yes.

Anthony Godfrey:

Tell me, are there any other tips that you have for parents when they see a threat, or if they have concerns about something that they're hearing through the media about possible danger in a school? 

Lt. Jeremy Barnes:

Yes. I think one of the biggest things is to really ensure that the school has a proper relationship and a good relationship with SafeUT. SafeUT is one of our best resources that we have for reporting threats, and also for a crisis line. Anybody that's in crisis and just needs somebody to talk to. SafeUT is staffed 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and they're immediately in touch with a clinical-level individual that can help through those moments of crises. But it's also our safe reporting application for the state. So ensuring that there is a good relationship with SafeUT between the district, the schools, and SafeUT is one of the best ways in ensuring that the parents have the notification of how to report things through SafeUT. 

Another is to have the parents be able to report things to local law enforcement, be able to have that open communication with the schools, understand that every school in the state, public and charter, is going to have a school safety and security specialist. Each LEA is going to have a school safety and security director. A lot of schools are going to have school resource officers. And knowing who those individuals are to help have the conversation about these areas of concern or these items of concern. 

Anthony Godfrey:

SafeUT, for those who may not have it, is an app that allows you to report anonymously. You can also share your name if you choose. It can be concerns about threats, about things that are happening at school, people who are in crisis can use SafeUT to get help as you described. We have a very clear protocol for following through on SafeUT as a district. We also have someone on call 24/7 to respond to what we hear from SafeUT. So they'll sometimes contact us to help address an issue as you know. So we do have a strong relationship there. We promote SafeUT and it's been a great tool to help make sure that we're hearing about the concerns out there and getting information from folks who may be aware of things that are happening at school that we need to address.

Is there a threshold that you can describe where parents or students need to make sure they're reporting something? Do you ever get too many reports about concerns? Or do they just if there's a concern, make sure you report it no matter what?

Lt. Jeremy Barnes:

Yeah, it goes back to the adage of, you know, I've always heard it from the Department of Homeland Security, ‘if you see something, say something.’ When I was on patrol, this was many years ago as a patrol officer, there would always be the individual that would call the police and say, I know I'm wasting your time. That was one statement that in my mind was, was kind of like, you don't need to say that. Because if it's a problem to you, it's a problem to me. If it is concerning to you as a citizen for the city that I work for, then it's a problem for me. And we're going to work through this and we're going to come up with a solution. 

So I think if going back to the adage of if you see, say something, say something, there is absolutely nothing wrong with reporting something that causes you concern. Like there's obviously something about the situation that stood out that made it outside the ordinary for you. So report it. And then let the professionals and let the individuals that have been trained to go through it and determine whether the legitimacy of it and determine the severity of it be the ones to figure it out. But there was something that caused alarm or something that caused, your antennae to stand up. Just to report it. There is, there's absolutely nothing that is going to come back on you negatively if it was something that you reported that ended up being nothing.

Anthony Godfrey:

Tell us about your background that led you to this position as lieutenant with the state.

Lt. Jeremy Barnes:

I, so law enforcement is kind of a unique profession and it used to be that law enforcement officers would stick with one agency, they'd remain with that agency. So I like to say that I was agency hopping before it was cool. I started my career in 2005 with the Salt Lake County Sheriff's Office as a correctional officer. And over time I worked for the Ogden City Police Department, Montana State University Police Department, found a home in Draper City where I was able to be a patrol officer, a DARE officer. I was the first school resource officer for the city and opened Corner Canyon High School. And then I reached a point in time in my career where I wanted to try something different. I went to the Department of Public Safety and investigated police misconduct at the Peace Officer Standards and Training Division, which we refer to as POST. And then in 2020, I took the position of school safety liaison.

Anthony Godfrey:

That's a wide range of experience coming to this new position and we're grateful that you're there and helping support us in making our schools the safest place for kids to be.

Lt. Jeremy Barnes:

Well, thank you.

Anthony Godfrey:

Thanks for joining us on another episode of the Supercast. Remember, education is the most important thing you will do today. We'll see you out there.

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