THMG Presents: Hazard Class

Episode 0023

Chaos and Command

Featuring: John Norman

In this compelling episode of Hazard Class Podcast, Jake sits down with Chief John Norman, a veteran firefighter with over 50 years of experience, including 27 years with the FDNY. Chief Norman, a former Deputy Assistant Chief of Special Operations Command, played a crucial role in the response and recovery efforts after 9/11. He shares his journey from growing up in a firefighter family to serving in FDNY Special Operations, offering invaluable insights into leadership, tactics, and the evolution of fire service operations.

Expect to hear gripping stories, career-changing lessons, and reflections on the fire service’s past, present, and future.

Fire Officer’s Handbook of Tactics – Buy Here: www.chiefnorman.com

Fire Department Special Operations – Learn More: www.chiefnorman.com

Working with Giants – Memoir & Lessons from the Fire Service: www.chiefnorman.com

Follow Chief John Norman:

Website: www.chiefnorman.com

Instagram: @chiefnormanfdny

Key Episode Timestamps & Topics:

Introduction (0:00 - 3:54)

- Welcome to the Hazard Class Podcast.

- Introduction to Chief John Norman.

- Overview of his distinguished career.

The Wheel of Stupid Questions (3:54 - 4:22)

- Chief Norman shares a surprising movie favorite: Secondhand Lions.

Early Fire Service Influences (4:22 - 5:19)

- Growing up in a firehouse environment.

- The impact of WWII veteran firefighters on his career choice.

Firefighting as a Family Tradition (5:23 - 8:40)

- Chief Norman’s family involvement in fire and police services.

- His brother’s harrowing 9/11 survival story.

First Fire Experiences (8:40 - 10:41)

- Recalling his first-ever fire at six years old.

- Chasing fires on his bicycle as a young boy.

His First Official Fire Call (10:41 - 15:32)

- A dramatic house fire involving rescues, firefighter injuries, and valuable lessons learned.

- Key takeaway: Never trust only your eyes in a search—always verify with feel.

The Evolution of Fire Tactics (15:33 - 17:42)

- The transition from old-school firefighting methods to modern SCBA use.

- Resistance to new safety technology among veteran firefighters.

Joining FDNY & the Academy Experience (17:43 - 19:00)

- The long waiting process before finally joining FDNY in 1979.

First FDNY Assignment: The Busiest Engine in the City (19:59 - 22:43)

- Unexpected assignment to Engine 290, one of NYC’s busiest units.

Transitioning to Special Operations (22:44 - 26:02)

- How mentorship and networking shaped his move to Rescue Companies.

Climbing the Ranks: From Firefighter to Chief (26:02 - 32:30)

- Why he initially hesitated to take the Battalion Chief exam.

- The importance of strong leadership at all levels of the fire service.

9/11: A Career-Defining Event (32:30 - 36:47)

- Chief Norman’s role in search and rescue at Ground Zero.

- How FDNY leadership was rebuilt after losing key figures.

- The overwhelming fires and water supply challenges in Lower Manhattan.

Structural Collapse and Fire Command Decisions (36:47 - 42:13)

- The decision to pull out of WTC 7 before its collapse.

- How FDNY managed citywide operations despite major losses.

Lessons from a Lifetime in Firefighting (46:07 - 46:46)

- "Enjoy every second of it—at some point, you won’t be doing it anymore."