Episode Information

Show Notes

Jeramie Brown’s career journey proves there’s no single path to technology leadership success. Starting as a radio and television broadcaster in the Air Force, Jeramie spent 24 years learning storytelling, communication, and adaptability while gradually building technical expertise. Today, he serves as Chief Information Officer for a Nevada public agency and President of the Las Vegas AITP chapter.

Episode Summary

This conversation explores how diverse backgrounds create stronger tech leaders. Jeramie shares his transition from analog broadcasting to digital technology, the leadership lessons learned through military service, and practical strategies for embracing change in fast-moving tech environments.

Key Discussion Points

• Career Transition Strategy: How Jeramie deliberately started at entry-level after military retirement to build confidence and prove his technical abilities
• Change Management Philosophy: Finding excitement within scary changes to make adaptation easier
• Leadership Evolution: Moving from technical contributor to strategic leader who develops others
• Trust Building: Why owning mistakes publicly strengthens team dynamics
• Professional Networks: How organizations like AITP, ISSA, and SIM accelerate career growth

Notable Quotes

“Artificial intelligence is not a replacement for you or for anybody, it is an augmentation tool. It will help you do your job or do that task better, faster, more reliable.”

“I wanted to be the guy that they could go to and ask questions and I can help guide them to the right answers.”

“You have to find a way to convey the information in a story, right? Because that’s what people are gonna connect to.”

Resources Mentioned

• Book: “The Five Dysfunctions of a Team” by Patrick Lencioni
• Organizations: AITP, ISSA, SIM, Thrive, PMI
• Leadership Authors: Simon Sinek

Career Advice Highlights Embrace Non-Traditional Paths – Diverse backgrounds bring valuable perspectives to technology roles Focus on Skill Development – Technical skills plus communication abilities create powerful combinations Join Professional Associations – These organizations provide networking, mentorship, and growth opportunities Lead Through Service – Great leaders develop their teams rather than showcasing personal expertise Build Trust Through Transparency – Admitting mistakes encourages team honesty and collaboration Connect with Jeramie

• LinkedIn: Jeramie Brown, CIO
• Professional Association: AITP Las Vegas Chapter

Career Downloads explores diverse paths to technology success. Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts and visit our website for full episode transcripts and resources.

#CareerDownloads #TechnologyCareers #ITLeadership #CareerAdvice

Transcription

Manuel: Welcome everyone, my name is Manuel Martinez and this is another episode of Career Downloads. For each episode, I basically hit the refresh button, bring on a different guest, to learn more about their background, their experiences, to really uncover any actionable advice that you can use as you’re managing your own career. So for today’s episode, I have with me Jeramie Brown and I’m very excited, we met in a professional setting. He is in senior leadership, so I’m very excited to kind of uncover his path to that type of role and kind of what he’s learned along the way. So with that, I’ll go ahead and introduce Jeramie. Hi Jeramie.

Jeramie: Hi Manuel.

Manuel: I appreciate you taking the time to come on and share your experiences.

Jeramie: Oh, I’m super excited to be here. I love things like this, like getting the opportunity to help people grow in their career and kind of figure out where they wanna go and like where they are now, where they wanna be and how to get there.

Manuel: Fantastic. This is the perfect place to do that. (both laughing) So if you don’t mind kind of telling us what your current role and responsibilities are, just a summary and we’ll eventually work that way as part of the conversation.

Jeramie: Sure. So I’m the chief of information technology in a public sector agency. And so what that really means is I drive the strategic direction for technology within my organization. I help different business units or divisions determine what their technology needs are gonna be. Like where are they right now? What are they looking at in the future? Help guide them along that path to develop a five year plan. Like where do they wanna be five years from now? What does that look like in their space? And every division is different, right? HR is gonna be different than financial management, which is gonna be different from a construction division or a design division. Like people that are designing buildings or highways or whatever, like their needs are gonna be different than the rest of the organization. So helping them to identify those needs and develop a plan to get from where they are now to where they wanna be, especially with the sheer speed at which technology is changing now, right? Trying to predict where they’re gonna be five years from now really takes some thought and some, no kidding, planning on how do we get to, how are we gonna incorporate these new tools into our existing processes? Because we have to. The companies that are producing software packages and anything really, they’re looking at how are we gonna embed AI into this tool? What benefit is it gonna provide to the customer? And so we need to start looking at those things now. And so that’s my goal is to, like that’s kind of my responsibilities. Of course we keep the lights on, we provide support for end user devices, phones, computers, laptops, all of that. And we have those plans, we still maintain servers and we do all of the IT stuff, right? But we do more than that, right? IT now is very much not only keeping the lights on but helping the organization plan for where their technology is gonna be in the future. So that’s kind of my responsibilities.

Manuel: Sounds like you don’t do too much, right? (both laughing) So now if you kind of take us a little bit farther back and kind of tell me where you grew up and eventually what was your first introduction to technology and kind of your career progression as that progressed.

Jeramie: So I grew up in a very small town in central Illinois. It’s called Williamsville. It’s about 10 miles north of Springfield, about four hours south of Chicago. Very small farming community, a thousand people, right? Growing up, Williamsville and a town next to us called Sherman combined in junior high and high school. My graduating class in high school was 76 people. So small. But my introduction to technology actually started in that small town. I was born in the 70s. Growing up in the 70s and early 80s, the first VCRs came out, right? And so learning to program that VCR, you have the joke about, my parents couldn’t program a VCR. My parents couldn’t program a VCR, right? That was brand new technology. And so learning how to do that really sparked that interest in technology. And then when I was in high school, we had a very small high school, right? But we had a computer class with Apple IIEs. And so I learned basic programming as a junior in high school on Apple IIEs. And it really excited me. Looking back, I always thought for years, I was a good student. And then when I started going to college, I had to pull my high school transcripts. And I was like, huh, maybe I wasn’t such a great student in high school. I should have focused more. But my computer classes, rock solid. Computers just make sense to me, right? Technology just makes sense to me. So it really got me excited. And unfortunately, I didn’t go into a technology career right away. I actually joined the Air Force when I was 18 or 17. I joined delayed enlistment. Went to basic training at 18. And I became a radio and television broadcaster. Like I was a broadcast journalist for 24 years. That’s what I did. But the interesting thing about that was, when I first started, everything was analog. So our audio was analog. It was reel to reel tapes. And I like, I had no kidding, would rock those reels back and forth to find a splice point, take a razor, cut the tape, find another splice point, take the razor, cut the tape, or cut the tape, and then tape it all together, right? And edit that way. That’s how we edited audio. And TV, it was all analog TV. We used Betamax. And like we had two machines, and you would set your in and out points, and it was all analog. And you’d record from one tape to another. And then those processes started changing. And we started introducing digital editing, right? The first digital editing I did was in audio. And we used a Mac computer. I don’t remember what the software was now. It was like, this was like in the early 90s. But we started editing on digital formats and learning how to do that. And all of the technology that’s associated with it, like it led to that. And then TV or video started adapting to that as well. And we moved from analog tapes to digital audio tapes or digital video tapes. But we’d still edit in an analog fashion. And then we started recording to computer, right? And you’d take your video and you’d dump it into the computer and then you’d edit that way. And then that moved into recording on the camera, onto a hard drive. And so you would just start editing directly on those. And so learning that technology along the way, and all of the backbone stuff for it, we had to, like nobody knew how to run those networks for audio and video editing. So we had to do it ourselves. We had some engineers that took care of that. And those of us that were broadcasters that really loved technology, we would work right alongside with them and learn how to set up a network and how to run active directory and learn switches and firewalls and all of it, and how to administer small computers. And so like that, all of that led to me developing this love for technology and essentially taking on additional duties in the Air Force as the computer support guy, which led to a college degree in computer information science, paid for by the Air Force, thank you. And then a master’s degree in IT.

Manuel: So there’s a lot in there that’s very interesting. (both laughing) You know, you mentioned the programming the VCRs. Sure, sure. I do remember that. And a lot of people were like, “Well, that’s not technology.” It is, right? Like there’s something digital in there. So what was the decision that, you know, apart from you had a little bit of experience in programming and technology careers aren’t as prevalent as they are now, right? So you probably weren’t thinking like, “Oh, I can make a career out of this at that age.” But what is it that brought you or intrigued you in broadcasting? I mean, was it the VCRs? Was it, you know, being able to kind of put audio and video together, experiences with TV, movies? I’m just curious what kind of sparked that.

Jeramie: So I’ve always loved radio and television. Like I listened to the radio, even now, I don’t listen to satellite radio. I listen to local radio, right? I always have. And I love it. I think having that local connection is amazing. TV, like I love TV shows, I love movies. I love going to movie theaters and that experience of seeing a movie in the theater. Like that’s huge, right? I’m a little too old to have seen “Star Wars” in theaters. Sorry, I’m a little too young to have seen “Star Wars” in theaters. I was born before that, but I was like five years old, right? So I didn’t get to see the original in theaters, but “Empire Strikes Back” and “Return of the Jedi,” those types of movies, when I was a kid, they were game changing. And so when I was growing up, one of the things that I did in high school was speech competitions. And so I knew guys that would do comedy and comedy duos and drama. I did radio news. And so at speech competitions, they would have an AP wire set up and it would roll out news and you would rip the news headlines off of the machine. You had five minutes to put together a radio newscast and you had to do a two minute newscast. And so like that, even that, like that AP wire technology, just being able to gather information from across the world like that, rip it off and do a live radio newscast was amazing to me. Manuel: So is it the storytelling around it? Is it the, you mentioned the experience, but it also sounds the fact that you were doing a lot of this public speaking and competitions and kind of putting stuff together. Is it the emotion behind it? Is it the storytelling? Because I mean, even just the way that you communicate, I’m like, wow, this sounds great. Like there are people that are just, have honed that skill of telling a story.

Jeraamie: It’s really about storytelling, right? And making sure that you’re conveying the information accurately to your audience. And just learning to do that, learning to communicate in that manner has been an unbelievable boon in my career. Being able to talk to people on their level about the topics they’re interested in and convey it in a way that they understand really helps you make those connections, which is going to enhance your career. Like you’re gonna become the guy that they’re gonna go to for information, right? And being able to help the people that work for you to understand new technologies or to help them grow in their career and figure out what they wanna do with their life. Like what does their career look like? Being able to communicate is key to all of that. Manuel: And doing it in storytelling, it’s gonna be in a way that is memorable to them. Like you can explain something to them, very technical, like, hey, here, this works. Okay, maybe I kind of get it, but you got a little bit of that element of communication and storytelling. And they’re like, oh, I remember. Like all of a sudden it starts to click a little bit easier.

Jeramie: You have to find a way to convey the information in a story, right? Because that’s what people are gonna connect to. They’re gonna connect to the emotion behind what you’re talking about. It doesn’t have to be like over the top emotion, but you have to find that connection. You have to be able to convey the information and do it in a way that is going to develop that two-way communication between you and the person you’re talking to, right? And doing it in a storytelling way where you have a beginning, a middle, and an end to that story is like, it makes all the difference.

Manuel: Now I understand kind of why you took that career path and started there within the army. And another thing that’s very interesting is you mentioned change, right? And at that time things are newer, but they’re not moving at the speed that they are now.

Jeramie: Man.

Manuel: But it’s still a change. And there’s people that are comfortable with it, people that are not comfortable with it, and there’s the people in the middle. So what was it from your standpoint and your experience that said, this is something new and I wanna learn it? Did you have that curiosity for knowledge and learning? Was it just really like, oh, that seems interesting?

Jeramie: A little bit of both, honestly. I love learning new things, especially technology. I struggle sometimes learning things that aren’t technology related, but I still try. But technology, it just fascinates me because the things that you can do when you understand how technology functions, the game-changing ways that you can alter your processes to take advantage of that technology, blow my mind every day, right? Look at, you can look at AI right now, right? That’s the big thing, is everybody’s talking about artificial intelligence. But when you actually get down to the nuts and bolts of how that works and what you can use it for, like actual use cases, it’s phenomenal how beneficial that can be. Artificial intelligence is not a replacement for you or for anybody, it is an augmentation tool. It will help you do your job or do that task better, faster, more reliable. That’s what it’s all about. And finding ways to improve your performance, improve the speed at which you can provide answers or solutions is it’s just phenomenal. And so that’s really that passion, right? That passion for growth and change. And change is scary, right? Like it is. But if you can find a way to embrace it and really come to a point where you can say, you know what, this change is scary, but this piece of it is very exciting. That’s all you gotta find, is that one piece that’s gonna excite you. And then it’s not so scary, right? And then you look at that piece and you embrace it and you do that thing and you see the benefits. And then again, that overall change becomes something that’s not quite so scary. You can see the excitement or the benefits to doing what you’re doing. And then that can lead to excitement, which is gonna help you embrace more change and which is gonna help you learn more and really like grow as a person and grow in your career by embracing those things.

Manuel: Probably the last thing I’m gonna touch on this because I know there’s gonna be so much and I can already sense that this is gonna be a two-parter at some point, I’m gonna have to bring you back. You mentioned, yes, it is scary and I never thought about trying to find that excitement part, right? Because it is and there are things that are gonna excite you. But then there’s also, as part of that excitement, there might be that challenge that comes with it.

Jeramie: Oh yeah.

Manuel: How do you deal with that challenge, especially early on, right? And the reason I bring that on is, once you’ve done it for a while, you understand, okay, hey, this is the process, right? I’ve seen the diagrams where like, not knowing and knowing, it’s not a straight path. It’s all this and that’s the part that is difficult for a lot of people and they might give up. But what’s kind of your approach, especially early on, to say, I wanna stick with it. Is it that exciting?

Jeramie: I wanted to be the guy. Like that’s what it came down to, is I wanted to learn that technology and become the guy that had not all the answers, but had enough answers to help me and the people that were also embracing that technology, or maybe they weren’t embracing it. Maybe they were forced into using that technology, but helping them find the way to use that to their benefit. And when I say I wanted to be the guy, I didn’t wanna be the guy with all the answers. I wanted to be the guy that they could go to and ask questions and I can help guide them to the right answers. Cause I don’t know everything, far from it. Like the older I get, the less I know, right? But I always wanted to be that guy that could be depended on to help guide the organization and lead the way in adopting that new technology or adopting that new process or whatever it was. Like I wanted to be at the forefront. And if you wanna do that, then you have to embrace those changes, right? And you have to take it upon yourself to learn that new process or new technology or whatever it is, you have to learn it and then you have to help people, you have to help bring people along with you, right? You can’t do it on your own. If you do it on your own, then you’re that guy. You’re not the guy, you’re that guy. And nobody wants to be that guy.

Manuel: Exactly. So then you’re picking all this up, you’re learning, networking, and you mentioned that you got your bachelor’s and your master’s while still in the military or is this afterwards?

Jeramie: No, I was still on active duty. I actually didn’t take my first college class until I’d been in for 15 years. And I took a weekend seminar on computers cause I was just trying to get back into school, right? Cause it’d been a long time and really loved it. And the guy who was the professor running that seminar at the end, he was like, I don’t know why you’re here. Like this is, you know all this stuff. He’s like, you need to take a programming class. And he recommended an intro to programming. I went to the University of Maryland, University College, UMUC. Now University of Maryland Global Campus, UMGC. Great school, loved them. And so they offered an intro to programming that was Java, not JavaScript, actual Java programming language, right? Object oriented programming, took that introductory class, I was hooked. Like it made so much sense to me. It was very logical, like I just got it. And so that started my college career. And so I learned, I went through, I think four year or four or five different programming classes, you know, just kind of making my way through more advanced each time. I learned C sharp and C plus, C plus plus, I learned all these programming languages. And I thought, you know what? Maybe I wanna be a programmer, like, and develop applications. And then I took a cybersecurity class. And I was like, oh, this is really cool, right? And so I started going down that path. And I ended up getting my bachelor’s in computer information science, which was the four year degree. And then I went on to also at UMGC to get my bachelor or my master of science in information technology with a focus on information assurance. And of course, at that time, information assurance was cybersecurity, right? That name has changed several times over the years. And so I really, really like fell in love with cybersecurity. And the reason I fell in love with it is, it’s not just programming, I see just programming, programming is so hard. Like I look at the guys that do it professionally and I’m like, I learned this much of what you do, right? It’s amazing what they can do. But I fell in love with cybersecurity because it was all about defending that perimeter, right? And cause there was a perimeter at the time. Now there’s not so much, but it was all about defense and figuring out how do we protect the important pieces of what we have from the bad guys that are trying to access it. And I think a lot of that was just a mindset from being in the military, right? Like it’s, that’s what we do. And so, like I embraced that. I learned not only defense, but a little bit of, that red team, red team, blue team type thing. And so that was very exciting. And so I did that. And then I, that was an additional duty while I was in the military was information assurance. And then when I retired, I went to work for a local company and my intent when I retired, because I’d been in for 24 years, I’d been leading people and like leading programs. And I was just like, I just wanna be a desktop support technician because I was making a career transition, right? It was a brand new career for me. I was getting out of the military. It was a lot of change. I was like, I just wanna be a desktop support technician. So that’s what I did. I applied for this job, actually a guy that I met through a professional association or professional organization that was also in the Air Force. I’d seen him around the base, several times. He called me when I was on my last few, like month or so of being on active duty and asked if I was still looking for a job, right? Just out of the blue, he calls me, cause he knew me and he was like, Hey, you still looking for a job? I’m like, yes, I am Mike, what you got? He’s like, can you come in for an interview? And so I went in, did the interview. It was for a desktop support technician at the Nellis Air Force Base Hospital, cause that company had the IT support contract for the hospital. And so I was like, yeah, let’s do it. And so I started working for them and I was with them for maybe a month and a half. And the guy that I worked for was offsite. And so he needed somebody to pull reports and nobody else on the team could do it. And I was like, yeah, sure, I’ll do it. So I start pulling reports for him and passing them on. And that he ended up leaving the company and somebody else came on and he was also offsite. And so I just start kept doing the reports. And until they were like, Hey, do you want to be the site lead? Like less than three months into this contract, like into post retirement, they’re like, do you want to be the site lead? And I’m like, does that come with a pay raise? And they’re like, no, not really. I’m like, well, I’m already doing it. So I might as well. And so I did that for like another month, maybe month and a half. And then he left the company. And so the CEO approached me and she was like, Hey, do you want to be the contract manager? Like you’re out there, you do this stuff anyway, you want to be your contract manager. And I was like, well, that depends. Does this one come with a pay raise? And she said, yes, yes, it does. And I said, great, let’s do it. And so then I ran the IT support contract for them. And we did networking, we did sys admin, we did desktop support. Like we did information assurance, we did it all. And so all of that experience that I had from the military in these different areas that I had learned like along the way as additional duties, all came in handy at that point, because then I was involved in all of those things. And I was with them for almost three years. And then I had the opportunity to apply with the agency I’m with now as the information security officer, and was lucky enough to get that. And I did that for five years. And then it was just me, I was the only person on the security team. It was exhausting trying to get, doing cybersecurity in an organization as one man band is rough. And I feel for anybody that has to do it. But being there, I didn’t have anybody reporting to me except some interns, which was always fantastic. And I could see areas in the agency where I was like, I wish I could change that. I wish I had the authority to change that and make this other thing happen. And I found like after about three years, three and a half years, I was like, I really wish I had this power to make real change for the better. And so about five years in, the infrastructure and operations manager position came open. And I was like, you know what, I’m gonna apply for it. And I got it. And that started my progression to where I am now. Cause I was the INO manager for about a year and a half. And then I took on the deputy chief of IT role. And I was supposed to be in that role for three years. Our chief IT manager promised me she was gonna be with us for three years. Nine months in, she was like, I’m out. And so I applied for that position. And out of 14 applicants, I was lucky enough to get it.

Manuel: So when you did your transition out, so you mentioned it was a career change and it’s a career change you’re going from the military here, but it sounds like you, apart from the education, you were still doing a lot of the networking and some of that, was it not as focused? Because again, you’re still within the broadcast realm. So is it, I’m primarily, let’s say 80% broadcast, 20% network. And that’s why it kind of felt more like a career change or is it 50-50?

Jeramie: I was probably 90% broadcast, 10% IT. And so, and I did IT part-time like that for years. But making that transition to a full-time career in IT was daunting. And not only that, but to get out of the military and into a civilian role and make that transition at the same time, again, very daunting. And so that’s why I started where I did is because I just wanted to make that transition and prove to myself that, yeah, I have this experience and it all adds up, but what does that actually mean when I’m trying to do it daily? And so I needed to prove to myself that, yes, I do in fact know some things, I have the knowledge to do it, I have the capability and I can lead a team in this direction to meet these requirements. And so that three-year transition with the local company really made a huge difference for me in not only skillset, but comfort level, confidence, all of it.

Manuel: And you mentioned you kind of were looking to just again, build that skillset there, but also sounds like you kind of slowly moved up within the leadership ranks. Was that something that you also had experienced within the military? Are you moving up there as well? So that was something that’s, oh, I’m familiar with it.

Jeramie: Yeah

Manuel: I’m developing the skillset, but I’m okay leading. They mentioned, hey, a site lead, does it come with a pay raise? No, it doesn’t. You’re already, it seems like you were able to identify that you’re doing the work as a lead. So I’m guessing you have some experience there.

Jeramie: Yeah, so when I was in the military, when I was in the Air Force, as you progress through your career, once you get to a certain rank, you have to take on leadership responsibilities. Like there’s no choice, right? You hit the fifth enlisted rank, well, sometimes fourth, but definitely the fifth. You hit Staff Sergeant in the Air Force and you are a leader. You are leading a team. And it just progresses from there. And the military does a good job of helping develop those leadership skills, right? You get sent to professional development classes, leadership classes at certain points in your career to help you grow as you take on additional responsibilities, as your rank increases, you have to do certain things. And so they develop that leadership ability. And again, they send you to the classes, but it’s up to you to really embrace it, right? And take that opportunity as it’s presented and dig in and learn those leadership skills and continually grow. And there’s no end to leadership growth, right? Like even now there’s things that come up that I’m like, how am I gonna handle this as a leader? And I will go back to experts in the field. Simon Sinek is a great example, like his books are phenomenal, but you have to continue that growth and you have to realize or recognize when you’re in a situation that, or a situation is coming up, that you may not have the skillset now to handle it, but knowing where to go to find those skills or at least get you started on that path, you have to know those things. And then take advantage of that opportunity, right? Go back and read those books again and really evaluate where you are in your leadership style and like how you’re leading your team, am I making the right decisions? Does my leadership style fit with where the team is? Like, do I need to change? Do I need to help them grow? What do I need to do to get the team all headed in the same direction and lead that team to success?

Manuel: And is that something that you found an interest in, at least at that point, I get it, you’re forced to do it. But then at some point, you also almost have to kind of enjoy it. The reason I say that is at one point in my career, and I dabbled in a number of things, hey, I wanna do a network person, I wanna be a systems guy, a storage person. At one point, I was like, hey, I wanna go the leadership route. I didn’t enjoy it as much as I thought I would. And it could also be my first experience was relatively great. And I was like, no, man, I get this, I can do this, but it was probably 20% leadership, 80% technical work. So maybe that’s why I enjoyed it. When it ultimately came down to it has to be more leadership, I didn’t enjoy that as much. And maybe because I was just too early on in my career, now I’m okay kind of taking some more of those leadership roles, even without a title. Again, because leadership is not, hey, you’re a manager. And I wanna make sure that people understand that that’s a distinction, right? Like senior leadership and a manager, they’re two totally different things, two totally different people. So I’m just curious from your experience, was it something that you kind of gravitated towards as you’re doing it more, or is it just like, well, I’m good at this, I guess I’ll just keep doing it.

Jeramie: So I did not enjoy leadership when I first started in it. It was hard, managing, like leading a team is hard. Getting people to commit in the direction you’re trying to go without being directive is a challenge. And so like initially, no, it wasn’t something that I, I don’t know if I was good at it, like maybe I was, did I enjoy it? Not really, because it’s like herding cats sometimes. And nobody enjoys that, I love cats, but man. But over time, I learned that the more I focused on helping the team develop the skillsets they wanted, helping them find the path in their career that they wanted to take, and helping them grow their, not just their skill set, their technical skill set, but also their interpersonal skill set. Watching that growth and helping them achieve the goals that they have, suddenly they’re not just there because they have to be, they’re there because they wanna be, they’re supporting you because you supported them, and suddenly that whole team is now headed in the same direction, right? And you ask them to do something, and they’re on it, right? It’s no longer, hey, I need you to do this, like I don’t wanna talk, like you have to do this. That’s not the case anymore. It becomes, hey, this is the direction I think we need to go. What do you think? What do you think? Like you talk about it, and eventually the team will get to the point where they’re like, you know what, if that’s the direction you wanna go, we trust you, we’re gonna go that direction, right? And so you build that trust, and then the team is gonna follow you regardless, until you really make a mistake, and then you have to stop and reevaluate. Again, it’s that, is the team headed in the direction we need to be headed in for the organization? And so again, like it’s that leadership, like once I realized that, then I was like, okay, I get it. And maybe my leadership style isn’t right for every team, but I can adapt, and that’s one of the keys, is knowing yourself and what your leadership style is, and knowing when you need to adapt your leadership style to what the team needs.

Manuel: I’ve had a couple of different people on here that have, I wanna say have been successful in leadership roles. I mean, they’ve been doing it for a while, so that’s gonna be my definition of success at this point. And all of them had said something very similar to what you’re saying is, when they started to kind of really get in the flow, or really understand how this works is when they didn’t make it about them or the organization. This is what we need to do as an organization. It’s when they turn it around, how can I help you? What are you interested in? How do I develop you? And I think you nailed it is, as soon as you invest in them, they’re like, oh, I wanna be here. He does so much for me. When he asks for something, I will help. It’s just kind of that selflessness. It seems like, because again, I can think of like four or five people right now that had said something similar and it didn’t click until you said it right now. Once I made it about them, then they wanted to help me. And you kind of take that collaborative approach. Again, everybody’s gonna have a slightly different style, but also learning that, hey, I have to change my leadership style for these people versus these people. So that’s, I think it took this conversation to make it really go, oh, I get it now. So now you’ve kind of gone into this leadership, you eventually move into the department you’re at now. So how does that process of really wanting to make a change? Is it because in prior roles, in these leadership roles, you’re able to set that direction and here you can’t? Or is it you identify gaps that you can’t fix? There’s something that drove you.

Jeramie: Sure, so when I was the information security officer, an ISO or CISO, like the security team, their job is to make sure that that things are secure, but it’s not their job to do the securing. Does that make sense? Yes. Okay. And so when you can identify things that you know need to change for the organization to be compliant with requirements or to better secure the environment, to be able to identify when there’s malicious activity, you can bring that stuff up as a security officer and you can identify it, but you can’t make anybody change it, right? And so not being able to facilitate that change is what drove me out of security and into operations, because I wanted to be able to set that direction for the team and hold them accountable and say, these are security issues that we need to fix and this is the priority that we need to fix them in. And this is where these security issues fall in your list of priorities for all of the work that you do. And being able to help them identify or prioritize all of their work, because certain things that they were doing had more impact on the organization than other things they were doing. And certain things that they were doing would have a positive impact on security and certain things might not or might have a negative impact. And so being able to actually serve in that role and help the team prioritize and figure out what the impact was of each thing that they’re being asked to do and why they should be doing it, right? And helping them understand that why, because that I think is key to anything that you’re doing is helping the people that work for you understand why you’re asking them to do the things that you’re doing. Because when they understand the why, then they’re gonna see maybe a little more excitement, right, and you’re gonna see that embracing of the change. Because people just, that’s all they want. They wanna understand why they’re being told to do something or being asked to do something. And so I moved into that operations role and we started making some good changes and it was better for the organization. And I think people saw that. And then, so from there, like I was in infrastructure and operations, I had our network team and our SysAdmins and our desktop support and service desk and our unified communications team all working for me. But there are other sections within IT that are also very important. Cybersecurity is very important. Our project management team is very important. Our GIS team is huge for the organization I work for. And so, in that INO role, I started seeing some things that I would like to help change and help facilitate some growth and just some efficiencies. And so when the deputy chief position came open, I applied for that because then I could facilitate those changes, right? Instead of just suggesting them as the INO manager, I could actually sit down with the leads of those teams and again, address the why. And why are we doing things this way? And don’t tell me it’s because we’ve always done it that way because that conversation will go badly. And so we actually address the why. Why are we doing it this way? And what can we do better? And then seeing some of that change. And then of course, when the chief position came open, that was a natural progression from deputy. And so now I’m in that chief position and I have the ability to help those teams identify areas where they can create some efficiencies or improve processes. And we’re now in the beginning stages of a continuous improvement process where we’re evaluating processes every day and people are asking why. Why are we doing this? Why does this thing that we need to do take six steps? What if we took out this middle one that doesn’t seem really to be that important? Like how can we streamline this process? And so like seeing those types of things and helping the team under, giving them the authority to evaluate that and make real change gives them some investment in what they’re doing every day. And so we’ve seen just a complete transformation in motivation and inspiration amongst the team members and people now enjoy coming to work every day. They understand why they’re doing what they’re doing. And it’s a continuous process though, right? Because I need to explain to new people and even to the team regularly, what is our strategic vision? Where are we as an IT organization trying to get to in five years? How does that then fit into the organization overall? Like where we as a total organization, where are we headed? And how does everything that we do align with the strategic vision for the organization? And so helping people understand that and just that whole process has been huge.

Manuel: And where did you pick up the skill or the ability to start to see things at a more holistic level, right? Because I struggled with that a little bit. Like I mentioned, right? 20% of it was management. You start to, and that was probably around the time where I started to have that mindset shift of not being in the weeds. Cause that was very technical. And you have that technical background and you’re just like, “Oh, okay. Hey, this is the problem. This is the problem.” But then learning to kind of step back and say, “Okay, well, this is the problem. This is a problem. Okay, maybe there’s a bigger problem or just maybe understanding again, setting priorities. I know there’s leadership classes and everything, but there’s something also within you that helped you develop and say, “Okay, I need to look bigger picture. I need to kind of know to push here and pull here.”

Jeramie: So a lot of that started in my military career, right? As I got to higher ranks, you have to start putting the camera down, right? You are not the one going out and shooting video and recording audio and editing. You’re the one that is guiding the rest of the team to achieve the mission objectives that you’re responsible for, right? It started there where, “Okay, I need to figure out, we as a group have to achieve this objective. How am I going to do that? How is the team going to do that?” And so that’s where it started. And then just reading up on other leadership styles and how organizations function, like finding those experts in the field and reading some of the things that they’ve written and just really evaluating that stuff until you can internalize it and embrace it. Like, and it’s a growth process. It does not happen overnight at all. Like there are still days when I’m even at, we’re in the position I’m in now where I’m like, can I just have global admin for like five minutes to do this thing that I know needs to get done? But that’s not my job anymore, right? I would love to do it, but it’s not my job. And so you just have to, you just have to embrace that change. And when you do and you start, you look at the tactical things that the team is doing, which is the day-to-day operations, turning wrenches, hands-on keyboard. When you look at those and you can understand where they fit in the larger strategic objective for your organization, your overall strategy, that’s when that starts changing. And then you’re like, ah, so if the team is doing these tasks, this is where it fits in our strategic objective to reduce onboarding time by 50%, right? You can start seeing those connections. And then you’re gonna start embracing that overall picture, right? But you have to, you’re not gonna learn it on your own. You have to seek out other sources of knowledge and leadership and like really read up on strategic planning and what does it actually mean? How do you transition from the worker bee to the strategic mindset? And it’s a process. And so I’m continuing, even now, continual growth.

Manuel: And you mentioned something that it made me think of. So how do you, sure you’re doing a lot of reading, you’re doing a lot of courses. I could do that all day, even with technology. At some point, you have to put that into practice. I can build a lab and that will help me develop and I will make mistakes, I will break stuff, but I have a lab environment. There’s gotta be a challenge of doing that. Your lab environment is basically production with people. So I mean, are there any instances of your, where you could kind of think of where like, oh, I tried this and God, that failed miserably, right? Because again, people are like, oh, I’ll just read books and I’ll know how to do that. I’ve read a bunch of books on these. And to this day, I mean, I had a leadership mishap recently. Like I was, there’s a human element to it. I just, I had a day where it just, there was just so much stress going on. And then we’re in a meeting and I’m in a leadership role and I, again I didn’t lose my cool, but just the way I was responding, that the actions I was taking in that moment was not of a leader, right? I mean, it’s, this is my production environment. I’m going through it. I’m like afterwards, I’m like, that should have been a conversation that taken offline. Again, it was a learning moment. This happened probably three weeks ago. Yep. But what I learned from that is I had to go back and it was just yesterday. Well, I went back because I was on vacation. So I come back and I went through and in this group, again, luckily I had another meeting with the same group because it was right before I went on vacation. And then right when I come back, when I came back, I said, hey, I’ve already talked to the individual that, I had this, I apologize, and I understood my wrongdoing and I want to apologize to the rest of you. I go, that was not wrong day, wrong time, but it’s also, I had the wrong reaction. And they were like, no, no, no, it’s good. And I was like, I understand you think it’s good, but I made that mistake in public and I am going to own up to it in public. Like I went on the side and we had, there was no problems. But again, from a leadership role, and I didn’t, wasn’t really thinking about it that way at the time, but I’m like, oh, I messed up. Here’s how I fix it. So how do you handle that?

Jeramie: So it’s gonna happen. Like I have found that even the best leaders have bad days. It’s gonna happen. But exactly what you said, you have to own it. Own up to it, recognize that it was a mistake. Like you, an overreaction, maybe it was a wrong decision. Maybe you thought you had all the information and you chose a direction to go and it didn’t work out or maybe caused additional problems. So you roll it back, right? And then you own that. You own up to it. You explain what you’re, to your team. Hey, look, sorry, that was a mistake on my part. We shouldn’t have gone that direction or I shouldn’t have lost my cool. I apologize. Like I, exactly what you did. You’ll probably, you talked to the person that was impacted or the people that were impacted. And then you address it with a larger group and you’re transparent about it, right? Because nobody’s perfect and people understand that. It’s when you try to hide it or cover it up or just don’t acknowledge it at all and just move on. That’s when that trust level that you’re trying to build takes a hit. And so you have to own up to it. You have to recognize it, address it, and then help the team move on from that. And then try not to do it again, right? I try not to make the same mistake twice. I have, but it’s inevitable. You’re going to make a mistake. You’re going to make a bad decision. The key is recognize it and don’t be afraid to admit it, right? And because what that does, when you as the leader are willing to acknowledge that you made a mistake, your team is going to be comfortable admitting when they make a mistake. And then nobody’s gonna hide anything. They own up to it. And then the team is going to come together and they’re going to be like, “Hey, right, you messed that up, but let’s fix it.” And then you’re going to get that teamwork and the team as a whole is going to get stronger. And so you absolutely have to be transparent about it, own it, and help your team do the same.

Manuel: And I never had thought about it. I mean, I might have done that on occasion, but this is again, just because it was recent, I was like, “Oh my gosh.” But I think back to when I was a technical person, there’s times where you’re doing stuff in production, something broke and you’re like, you fix it quickly. But then the one thing I had learned early on from my, I had a manager, he’s like, “I don’t care if you break stuff. I don’t care if something goes wrong. What I do want you to do is as soon as you can, like fix it, I’m not saying, “Hey, drop it, don’t fix it.” And then come and tell me.” He’s like, “But let me know. Try and give me a heads up. If you can’t, somebody needs to do that.” He goes, “Because now what that does for your leader,” and again, it has to be a leader, not a manager, is they go, “Now I can go through and I’m not caught off guard.” Right. Right? Well, wait a minute, you don’t know what you’re doing. How do you manage your team? Now they come to me, “What issue?” He’s like, “I might even be able to just buy time.” Well, what are you talking about? Okay, explain to me what’s going on, especially if you’ve already come to me and I know you’re close, because it’s happened. I’m like, “Hey, this is happening. We’re on it.” By the time they go to him, he’s like, “Are you sure? Hold on, let’s go over to your desk. Let’s go try this. Let’s go figure it out.” “Oh it’s fixed.” “That’s weird. I wonder if it was just a glitch.” Again, having that transparency upwards as well and saying, “Hey, we made a mistake,” or, “Hey, we’re having a problem,” and maybe it takes an hour and that’s fine, but again, I always did it upwards and never really had to do it downstream.

Jeramie: Yeah, so when you do that, if you make a mistake and you own up to it and you talk to your team about it and then you tell your boss and that boss that can tell their boss, nobody gets surprised, because that’s the worst thing that can happen, is if your CEO or your director or whatever that person is that leads your organization, if they get surprised by something that happened in your environment, that’s bad, because then bad questions come out. But if you keep them apprised of, “Hey, we had an outage. We know what happened. We’re in the process of fixing it. It’ll be an hour.” Then if somebody comes in and is like, “Hey, why is this thing out? Why is this down?” They can say, “We had an issue. We’re aware of it. We’re fixing it. It should be back up in an hour.” Not only does it make you guys look good because you’re on it, but your leadership team all the way up the chain then looks good because they know what’s going on. And somebody can make an offhand comment, but that director or CEO can immediately address it and be like, “Yeah, yeah, I know. Yeah, we’re on it. It’ll be fixed in an hour.”

Manuel: Is that something that, I know it’s a culture thing, but how does that get built? A lot of times they say, “Hey, it’s from the top down.” Is it possible to be from the bottom up?

Jeramie: It is.

Manuel: Or from the middle? Can it spread this way?

Jeramie: Absolutely. If you’re in a leadership role at whatever level, let your team make those mistakes. Own up to them, address them with your leadership and help your team understand that it’s okay. It’s okay to make a mistake. Don’t hide it. That’s the worst thing we can do. Own up to it. Let’s get it fixed. Because that’s the most important piece is let’s get it fixed. That builds that culture of trust. Your team is gonna trust you. Your leadership is gonna trust you and your team. Their leaders are gonna trust them. It’s a whole chain of events. You build that trust, and then it starts to spread. Because then other teams are like, “Well, why are those guys always so okay if something goes wrong?” Because they start learning that, “Oh, that team, yeah, that guy made a mistake, but the whole team came together and they fixed it.” Because they didn’t, they own it. They know what they’re doing. They have the trust of their leadership team and our leadership team to fix whatever happened. And so other teams start developing that same level of trust. And then it becomes a cultural shift of it’s okay. Don’t do it all the time. But if it happens, if you have a reputation for knowing when that happens and being on it immediately, your whole organization’s gonna trust you to just handle it. And nobody’s gonna get in trouble. Nobody’s gonna yelled that. You do an after-action report, like root cause analysis, whatever you wanna call it. But you figure it out and you document it. And then you know that next time when we’re doing this type of thing, let’s not click that button. But you develop that trust because then you’re documenting it and you’re showing growth in your technical skills and in your leadership skills.

Manuel: Documenting it is obviously it’s very important. So again, at some point you may not be there. New people are coming in. It’s also probably a way for you to understand if the culture’s changing. So let’s again, some already have a good culture. It’s there, but if you’re trying to change that and develop that, I think, and I wanna get your opinion on this, if I’m doing that, say I’m having a problem and I’m going through but I get yelled at and I’m like, okay, it’s a learning process. It’s gonna go. At what point do I say, it’s not changing. It’s not changing. This isn’t gonna happen. Maybe it’s time for me to kind of find one that would value that type of.

Jeramie: So if you are trying to be the agent of change for how things are handled in your organization on whatever level. Yes. Be open and honest and transparent with your team, with your fellow team members, and with your boss, your leadership team, and you make those efforts, right? And if your fellow team members and your leader are not supporting your efforts to affect positive change, you might wanna consider going somewhere else. Because if they’re not supporting you in small things, they’re not gonna support you in bigger things. And that can be a problem. The other option is if your leader leaves and you wanna stick with that organization because you like what the organization does, they leave, apply for their job, and you become the agent of change, right? You lead that change. And for the team members that you are part of, right? You become that agent that’s going to facilitate that change and help them grow. And then maybe that’ll make a difference. If not, like I said, there’s a ton of organizations out there, you’ll find a fit. It might be painful and take some time, But never give up. Like if there’s a culture that you know you wanna be part of and you can’t make the organization you’re in move to that culture, find that culture somewhere else.

Manuel: Yeah, and the only reason I bring it up is because a lot of times people are like, I don’t like this culture and hey, let’s go find another one, right? But again, there’s no guarantee. So I’m just wondering like, hey, what are ways that I can try and maybe change that internally on a small scale, right? I can’t change it everywhere, but now I like your idea of like, hey, go with the team, go with your manager and at least don’t just try to do the change, but communicate, hey, here’s what I’m trying to do. What if we kind of do this? And you’re right, I think you’ll quickly learn if they’re on board, if they’re not. And I think that that would probably even benefit you if your manager does leave. And you’re trying to go in there and be like, oh, well, when he or she was not a leader, they wanted to kind of make this, I’m okay. We were peers, I’m okay reporting to this person because I know that they’re going to have that type of mentality.

Jeramie: And some of those changes, some of those cultural shifts start with small things, right? And look for those small wins that can help lead to bigger wins and bigger change. Because like every step along the way, every small change you make is going to, like you make multiple small changes, suddenly it’s a big change, but everybody’s already embraced it. Because they saw the small thing you were trying to do, and they’re like, oh, hey, that’s a good idea. Like we should do that. And so they start doing it, and you do that multiple times, and you lead that team to the ultimate change that you were trying to achieve.

Manuel: You’re just building that bank of trust, and then you’re kind of building who you are as a person. Yeah. So I know we kind of jumped around a lot, but I really enjoyed your insights. So now in this role, I don’t know if there’s anything else that we kind of maybe didn’t touch on as you’re kind of progressed to where you’re at now.

Jeramie: So I mentioned earlier, the guy that I knew that offered me my first job, right, post military, I had met him at a professional organization. So I met Mike when I was in the Information Systems Security Association, ISSA. So because I was working on my degree in cyber secure and information assurance, my master’s degree, I joined the local chapter of ISSA, and I met a whole bunch of cyber security professionals and developed those relationships, started going to meetings before I had retired and got to know people and got to understand what the environment was like here in the Valley, right? The culture of cyber security, who was really engaged in IT in the Valley and who wasn’t and started to get to know some hiring managers and just some other cyber security professionals and got some insights from them on how they do things. And so I developed those relationships. Professional associations, when you get involved, can become a game changer. You start bouncing ideas off of other professionals that are in your same career. And you start, you know people that you can call, like, hey, I’m running into this thing, I just don’t know what to do, have you ever seen this before? And maybe they don’t, but maybe they know somebody that mentioned something. And so you start these conversations and you develop those relationships and you have those people to call. And so, like I was in ISSA, I was also a member of the Association of Information Technology Professionals, the local chapter, Las Vegas chapter. And so I got to know some other IT professionals outside of cyber security. And so I started getting involved in the community, in the IT community in the Valley. And I met a whole bunch of people. I know so many people in this Valley that are in IT that are just phenomenal. And so I have people that I can call for advice or guidance. I’m a member of SIM, the Society of Information Managers. And so I know IT leaders that I can call for advice and meet with those folks regularly. And so now, I was involved as a member and now I’m the president of the Las Vegas chapter of AITP, the Association of Information Technology Professionals. And our goal is to help people make those connections. We help people find the networking opportunities. We bring them in. We’re gonna try and do some training this year on a variety of topics, just do some networking events. We’re gonna do, like I said, the training. We’re gonna have chapter meetings where we can kind of do a presentation on something. And so we have these things that we’re working on to help people in IT develop their career, develop their personal skillset, their professional skillset, and help them get to where they wanna be. And we have relationships with a variety of other organizations. Like if you wanna be an IT leader, come to AITP, but I’m gonna direct you to SIM. Because the SIM chapter, they have a whole track on getting people from where they are to an IT leadership role. And it’s fantastic, like that program is great. If you’re in cybersecurity, we’re gonna send you to ISSA or ISC squared. I know all of those folks. And we’re gonna help you find other cybersecurity professionals to talk to and to meet with and get advice from and meet other hiring managers. And if you are a woman in tech, and you wanna hang out with other women in tech and do some mentoring or be a mentee, there’s an organization called Thrive. Thrive is amazing. They meet regularly and they get the opportunity to just meet with other women and talk about their careers and get ideas on how they can grow and deal with the men in IT because we can be a pain. But they’re fantastic organizations. They are so smart and they’re so dedicated to what we do and they’re valuable resources that you can tap into. And so my biggest piece of advice is get involved. Get involved in those organizations, get involved in your local IT community and develop those relationships.

Manuel: And that’s something that I definitely, early on in my career, I didn’t take advantage of those. So I’m glad that you’re bringing it up. And up until later on, I didn’t know the amount of organizations. So Thrive, Cynthia was on here as a guest. Jeramie: Oh, fantastic. I’ve known Cynthia a long time. Manuel: Yeah, so she actually announced it on here. Like, hey, I just started this nonprofit and here’s what we’re trying to do. And again, if people are interested in a little bit more on that, like again, there’s an episode they can watch that, but she’s, I’ve followed the page, I see what she’s doing. And again, it’s amazing, but it’s building that community, right? And I think the, sometimes a misconception is like, oh, you’re going there to “network” and network means I’m looking for a job. I don’t think that that’s what it is. It’s network, it’s to meet other people, it’s to get new ideas, it’s to grow your network. And your network is the people that you can go to, just sometimes just people are hanging out, right? Like just, hey, oh man, this person’s very interesting. They’ve like, I met Jeramie and he’s got all these cool stories about broadcasting in the military. Like maybe that’s all the relationship will ever be, but there’s nothing wrong with that.

Jeramie: No, no. That when we talk about networking, you’re exactly right. It’s getting to know people in your career field or in the IT community here in the Valley and developing those friendships and having people that you can call and when you’re struggling with something and just be like, hey, I just need some advice and some professional advice from peers, right? That’s what it’s all about. Yeah, it can lead to meeting a hiring manager, sure. But those relationships that you have is way more important. Yeah.

Manuel: Yeah, I’m glad you brought that up and mentioned all these different organizations and I like the fact, so for yours in particular, you kind of mentioned it’s just IT professionals. So obviously it’s open to anybody, people can join and how now as a president, if someone’s coming, what would be your recommendation for somebody to say, maybe I don’t, I’ve never done this before. I’m not comfortable talking to a bunch of people. I’m coming to you for the first time. Hey, Jeramie, I’m interested in joining your chapter. I want to attend, but I’m anxious. I don’t do big crowds. I don’t like talking to multiple people. What would be your advice to somebody going for the first time?

Jeramie: Come out to a happy hour event. Come talk to me. I will introduce you to one person. Talk to that person that night. Start there. Start with that one conversation and see where it goes. Right? That’s how it all starts, right? You don’t have to talk to 20 people. You don’t have to stand up and introduce yourself. You don’t have to do anything you don’t want to do. I’ll introduce you to one person at the event. Somebody that I think might be able to give you some guidance or just have a nice chat and you’re gonna find, I guarantee it, you’ll find that when you’re sitting there talking to them, you’re gonna have a conversation with that person. People will sto