Plus, subtle burnout signs leaders should know Show Notes

Why do ministry leaders struggle with money decisions even when they know biblical principles about stewardship? In this revealing conversation with Dr. Ioana Popa—psychiatrist, life coach, and ministry burnout expert—we uncover the hidden connections between pastoral stress and financial struggles.

Dr. Popa explains how ministry leaders often develop twisted stewardship mindsets that create guilt around basic family needs, vacations, and personal investments. From feeling guilty about buying shoes for their kids to avoiding coaching or professional development, these patterns create a “perfect storm” that leads to both financial stress and ministry burnout.

Discover the three phases of stress response that ministry leaders experience, why the “hidden burnout” phase is so dangerous, and how unmet emotional needs drive poor money decisions. This episode reveals why traditional financial advice often fails in ministry contexts and sets up the practical solutions we’ll explore in Part 2.

What You’ll Learn

• Why ministry leaders struggle with money despite having biblical knowledge about stewardship
• The psychological “perfect storm” that creates both financial stress and burnout
• How guilt-based money mindsets develop in ministry families
• The three phases of stress response and why ministry leaders get stuck in phase 2
• Why treating your body as “the temple of God” includes financial self-care
• How unmet emotional needs sabotage financial decision-making
• The connection between Maslow’s hierarchy of needs and ministry money struggles

Key Quotes

“What happens for us Christians, we want to give and we have this… we need to be like Christ and keep giving and giving and giving, and there’s something bad if we don’t. So between that as a dilemma… and the other dilemma is that the better we become, the more people are gonna come and are gonna need your help… And it’s gonna feel like the suffering is never ending.” – Dr. Ioana Popa

“It’s like a twisted stewardship mindset where we went from ‘we’re taking care of what God has entrusted to us’ to ‘Oh no, we’re going to feel guilty about taking care of normal needs with these funds.'” – Joy Suzanne Hunt

About Our Guest

Dr. Ioana Popa is a national board-certified life and leadership coach, physician, psychiatrist, and spiritual care provider with a Master’s in Theology. As co-founder of Team for the Soul and host of the Thriving in Christ Podcast, Dr. Ioana helps Christian professionals and ministry leaders prevent burnout and build sustainable habits for kingdom work. Her approach uniquely integrates science, psychology, and Christian faith.

Resources Mentioned

• Team for the Soul: teamforthesoul.com
• Thriving in Christ Podcast
• Renewal in Action program for Christian professionals and servant leaders. The in-depth online holistic self-care program that helps you build resilience and on-the-go sustainable high level habits while giving to others in Christ. 
• “Purpose Driven Life” by Rick Warren

Next Episode

Don’t miss Part 2 where Dr. Popa shares her holistic framework for preventing ministry burnout while maintaining healthy financial boundaries. We’ll explore practical solutions for the body, mind, heart, and soul—plus specific first steps you can take today.

Connect

• Email: joy@pastorsandmoney.com
• Instagram/Facebook: @pastorsandmoney
• Website: pastorsandmoney.com

The Pastors & Money Podcast helps pastors, ministry leaders, and churches start thriving financially using money as a tool to fuel God’s mission in our churches and families.

Interview Transcript

Dr. Ioana Popa: [00:00:00] I think what happens for many ministry leaders, what happens for us Christians, we want to give and we have this. Some were tucked in that we need to be like Christ and keep giving and giving and giving, and there’s something bad if we don’t. So, between that as a dilemma, and the other dilemma is that the better we become, the more people are gonna come and are gonna need your help. So there’s almost like everyone will see the light, everyone will see the skills, and they’re gonna come more and more to you. And it’s gonna feel like the suffering is never-ending. It’s impossible to end because more people are gonna be attracted. So between these two mindsets, I think it’s like a perfect storm.

​[00:01:00] Welcome to the Pastors & Money Podcast. I’m Joy Suzanne Hunt, pastor and financial coach, bringing you conversations about personal finance, church finance and how we disciple our churches in the areas of finance and stewardship. You can find the episode show notes, and more at pastorsandmoney.com. And here’s the show.

Introducing Dr. Ioana Popa: Expert on Ministry Leader Wellness

Joy Hunt: Our guest today is Dr. Ioana Popa, a national board certified life and leadership coach, physician, psychiatrist, and spiritual care provider with a Master’s in Theology. As co-founder of Team for the Soul and host of the Thriving in Christ Podcast, Dr. Ioana helps. Christian professionals and ministry leaders prevent burnout and build sustainable habits for kingdom work.

Her approach uniquely integrates science, psychology and Christian faith through programs like the renewal and action and one-on-one coaching. When not serving others, she enjoys spending time with her husband and for children gardening and contemplative prayer. Well, Dr. [00:02:00] Ioana, thank you for joining me today.

Dr. Ioana Popa: Thank you so much for having me. What a joy. you, joy,

Joy Hunt: I heard that one before.

Dr. Ioana Popa: No pun intended. Yes.

Dr. Popa’s Journey: From Psychiatrist to Ministry Coach

Joy Hunt: So could you share a little bit about your background and how you got started in ministry and with coaching Christian leaders?

Dr. Ioana Popa: Such a great question. I mean, I’ve been on my own search for decades. You know, I started as a physician psychiatrist and I almost like to think from learning as a physician about the body. Then I got interested and learn all about emotions and thoughts, and then I spiral, kept going up and up, until I realized that there was a part missing. spirituality and I love to learn.

I think there’s, every person has their own genius zone. And for me, that was an ability to kind of integrate and bring down to earth concepts that are complex to help people. Like I love to help and support others. And it was hard to even transition in general because. You [00:03:00] know, when you serve someone, say as a physician or psychiatrist, I mean, I was helping lots of people, right? You see the impact.

So even quitting and switching to something else, it felt like, ah, is this really from God? And it took me a while to even think, but my first, uh, lighting bulb, so to speak, was, oh, I love to teach. So I switched to education. I taught in middle school and high school and college, and then I went back to psychiatry and it really dawned on me that I love actually helping day-to-day people to really growing Christ and wanted to bring all the skills. So I can help and coaching seemed the best platform, so I train as a coach and spiritual care provider, so I love doing that.

Discerning God’s Call in Career Transitions

Joy Hunt: Yeah. So just kind of a piggyback question, how did you start to discern that God was changing that call or that direction for your life, or reassigning you as I like to think of it?

Dr. Ioana Popa: Yeah, it’s such a great question. I think it was a mixture [00:04:00] of burnout. Sometimes burnout. It’s, it brings like bells and whistles that we now might not be in the right place or doing the right things, or were not aligned, you know, not just with God, but with our emotions and body and our thoughts. So I felt some of the. you know, trite prayers, a sense of stress, not looking forward to next day or starting the week. So those was, are kind of like the beginnings. And then I thought about, I homeschool my kids for a year and I’m like, I love. Teaching, but it felt such a big leap that I wasn’t sure. So, and no one was super excited about my change.

My family thought I was crazy. Like, giving up being a doctor to what my, to being teaching like. My, my peers, like, they even put it down like this to me is such a noble profession teaching, but like, are you gonna become a kindergartner teacher? Like, there’s something wrong with a kindergartner teacher where I explicitly said, no, I’m [00:05:00] moving into high school and middle school.

The Come-to-Jesus Moment: Choosing Purpose Over Position

Dr. Ioana Popa: But people’s mindsets are so interesting and I had to overcome all this. And I say the biggest, book that helped me was the Purpose Driven Life for, from, from, um, Warren. Ah, so beautiful. So be, but it took me, I chewed on it for two, three years. If you can imagine. I mean, obviously I read it first time really quickly, but it, I, it was hard for me to discern until I had a come to Jesus moment and all of a sudden I had this, well, what if I die and I’m fast forwarding facing God?

And God is gonna say, okay, you wanna, so what did you do in this? Life, and I was like, oh God, was a physician, psychiatrist. I have many people, but in my heart, I really had this tug. I really wanted to teach, and I almost felt like this clear voice, very grounded, very peaceful, a very loving voice. Why didn’t you like a curious voice, you know, like, not like, oh, you, you shouldn’t do this or that. Like, why didn’t you? [00:06:00] And all of a sudden like scales fell off my eyes, like, oh, let me think about it. Money position, recognition. My family and others think that this is a bad idea. And all of a sudden I realized, oh, those are not really standing ground to, I have only one life.

When God’s Provision Confirms His Call

Dr. Ioana Popa: And I think that was, this was, I don’t know, 15, 20 years ago, I realized I only have one life, and all of a sudden I encountered this joy of adventure like. What else can God bring to me? Like, I don’t know what’s gonna happen, but partnering with God felt like the most exciting things in the world.

Joy Hunt: That’s so fun.

Dr. Ioana Popa: the first time I did the turn. Afterwards, it was all became very easy. Oh, I need to quit again. Oh, I need to do this. That’s fine. You know, it was just was easier.

Joy Hunt: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. I love, I love hearing about how God brings people into the positions that they’re in. ’cause a lot of times it’s not what we, I. Ever imagined?

Dr. Ioana Popa: [00:07:00] Yes. And you know, my, to your point, joy, when I quit, I was convinced that I’m just turning the page and that’s it.

Joy Hunt: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ioana Popa: that. World to the side because guess what I was teaching math, physics, all that in interesting stuff. Nothing related to what I was trained, and I, I didn’t think they’re gonna merge together.

But fast forward decades afterwards, I’m using every single area and training that God

Joy Hunt: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ioana Popa: I, God put me into or I chosen to. So nothing is lost.

Joy Hunt: I love that. Yeah. He, he takes all those little bits and pieces Right. And gives them a a

Dr. Ioana Popa: I

Joy Hunt: and you don’t know how they’re all gonna fit together.

Dr. Ioana Popa: no.

Joy Hunt: Yeah.

Trusting God’s Plan Despite Financial Uncertainty

Dr. Ioana Popa: and it just requires that trust. So my encouragement for your listener is just, just trust God. Sometimes only we can do, we’re in the forest and we see the top of the mountain and we’re walking there, but all we could do is just one next tree. Like, what’s my next step? And that’s how it felt, really like, [00:08:00] oh, what’s my next step?

And not really forcing it. It had to match everything like, okay, finances. I couldn’t put my family under. Strain, financial strain. So it had to work out, you know, I was offered initially a part-time position. I could have said yes, but financially didn’t work. I was like, God, I don’t know. But if it’s from you, make it work.

It looks like I have to work full time. I don’t know about this. And you wouldn’t know. And I prayed and you wouldn’t know Joy. Next day they call me. By the way, we have a full-time position. Are you interested? Like moments like this, you know, God

Hands was in there.

Joy Hunt: Yes.

Dr. Ioana Popa: such a beautiful confirmation.

Yeah.

Why Ministry Leaders Struggle with Money: The Stress Connection

Joy Hunt: Yes. So your work now focuses on helping ministry leaders find renewal and avoid burnout. So what patterns have you seen in that relationship between stress—and especially, you know, on this podcast we talk about money stress—but stress and pastoral burnout.

Dr. Ioana Popa: Oh, you know, there, [00:09:00] it’s so common. I burnt out twice, and it’s not because of a lack of knowledge, because I’m in the field. Flash news, it’s because it happens so insidiously that we don’t catch it.

The Hidden Burnout: Why Ministry Leaders Miss the Warning Signs

Dr. Ioana Popa: Like to call it now the head, I coined the term “the hidden burnout” because from a body perspective, uh, there are three phases of responding to stress.

I think what happens for many ministry leaders—and it could be I’m also serving people who are in the world, in the marketplace, and there are leading businesses or companies or schools or whatever, and ministry leaders— what happens for us Christians, we want to give, and we have this mindset somewhere tucked in that we need to be like Christ and keep giving and giving and giving, and there’s something bad if we don’t.

So between that as a dilemma, which I wanna, uh, uh, name that there and, and the antidote to that and the other dilemma is that the better we become, the more people are gonna come and are gonna need [00:10:00] your help. So there’s almost like everyone will see the light, everyone will see the skills and are gonna come more and more to you. And it gonna feel like the suffering is never ending. It’s impossible to end because more people are gonna be attracted. So between these two mindsets, I think it’s like a perfect storm.

The Three Phases of Stress Response in Ministry

Dr. Ioana Popa: We keep giving and we don’t feel like we’re worthy enough or we don’t have time or we feel, guilty or unself. If we take care of ourselves. We put our needs to the bottom of the list and we don’t notice it right away. I. Because in the stress response, there’s an acute phase. This is from medicine.

There’s an acute phase of stress, and we all know it

Joy Hunt: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ioana Popa: when we go into the resistance phase, which is the second phase, this is actually when God created our body to like, okay, you are under stress. I got your back. We’ll pump in lots of stress hormones and we can survive, you know, so to speak, and do well for several [00:11:00] months. The problem is we don’t usually stop. we keep going and overriding God’s boundaries, so to speak. And in that phase of resisted the stress hormones, the resistance phase is kind of eating our reserves where they shouldn’t. So it’s not like meant to be like an ongoing, strategy. But what happens for us, we’re like, oh, I got it.

I’m holding 20 balls in the air. Oh, two more coming. I can do this. I can volunteer for this and for that. So what happens? This is the hidden burnout. And it comes, and I can talk more about the subtle, they’re not symptoms because burnout is not like a diagnosis. But I can tell you what I missed and what I see in others missing.

But, then when we go into the last phase, the exhaustion phase, that’s where people know, oh, I’m burned out. Or we might have mental health issues, or we might have, uh, medical issues. And finances can be a big stress. I would wanna add to that because. If we haven’t found mindsets about money that [00:12:00] don’t allow us to bring resources for ourselves and our family for the same reason, we end up with not a lot of support, maybe our family might be suffering, and then that brings even more stress.

How Ministry Families Develop Twisted Money Mindsets

Joy Hunt: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I know from, you know, sometimes kids that grow up in ministry, families will grow up with like, oh, we can’t spend money on this because like, because that was like given to us as missions money or whatever, like, you know, missionary kid. You know, and it’s like almost feeling guilty for needing new shoes or things like that.

Um, and it’s not intentional,

Dr. Ioana Popa: No,

Joy Hunt: know, it’s, but there’s, there is this like,

it’s like a twisted stewardship mindset where we went from, we’re taking care of what God has entrusted to us to. Oh no, we’re going to feel guilty about taking care of normal needs with these funds. That taking care of the family is part of what those funds are for,[00:13:00]

Dr. Ioana Popa: Right, exactly.

When Ministry Leaders Feel Guilty About Basic Needs

Joy Hunt: or, sometimes pastors will feel like, oh, I can’t go on vacation,

Dr. Ioana Popa: Right. Or have a

Joy Hunt: or I can’t.

Dr. Ioana Popa: Or a membership or

Joy Hunt: Or I can’t, I can’t pay for that, you know? Or, or I can’t get coaching or, you know, fill in the blank. because you almost feel guilty for investing in yourself or investing in your family, or are people gonna judge you for it?

Dr. Ioana Popa: Exactly. I.

Joy Hunt: yeah.

Biblical Foundation: Your Body as the Temple of God

Dr. Ioana Popa: And I wanna say that even when we know, let’s say intellectually, someone might say, okay, I know I need to, even then we might still feel guilty in the back of our minds. So it is very powerful and I wanna remind us that even Christ took care of himself. went into the desert

Joy Hunt: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ioana Popa: separated from the crowd.

Now mind you, he was God and man, but we’re not. We’re we’re just humans. So I think what’s, there’s a couple of things. One, that we are the vessel of God and sometimes I like, whenever I get into [00:14:00] this kind of dilemmas in my mind, they’re playing tricks in my mind. I’m reminded of the beauty of the. Worship or the beauty of the church, like we don’t have trouble, and I don’t know, the listener might, might be affiliated with a particular denomination or church or a ritual, but in my denomination, you know, I. The churches are adore and they’re beautiful, and I’m like, we don’t have a problem with that. But we have to remember that our body is also the temple of God, and

Joy Hunt: Yes.

Dr. Ioana Popa: take care of it, we’ll make it sustainable. And the same for emotions and the mind. We don’t think of them as the temple of God, but they are.

Because flash news, I’m saying this jokingly, the brain is part of the body, right?

Joy Hunt: What.

Dr. Ioana Popa: Yes. So we, as we take care of our neurotransmitters, our chemicals in the brain, as we take care of our balance, of our sleep, as we exercise our muscles, you know, it’s just we allow the temple of God to be even more and more functioning and reach out to [00:15:00] so many more people.

Treating Yourself Like You Would Care for Others

Dr. Ioana Popa: So if you’re listening to this, I really wanna encourage you to think about that, that it’s almost think of yourself and your needs, almost like you would take care of someone else.

Joy Hunt: Mm.

Dr. Ioana Popa: What would you do for someone else? And if you would feel like, yes, their are important and their health and

Joy Hunt: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ioana Popa: that means it’s the same for you and will make you so much more sustainable and so much more impactful.

You’ll be able to multiply the fishes and the bread versus when we’re burnout and stressed there’s no more joy. I had that like, okay, please no more humans around. You know what I mean? Is like, and that doesn’t feel right. Right? When he feels like we cannot pour out our love and our joy.

The Biblical Balance: Boundaries in Ministry

Joy Hunt: Yeah. And sometimes it can feel like, like you can’t create that space or you can’t, um, and I kind of say can’t in quotes, but, um, you can’t set boundaries or things like [00:16:00] this. And what, when you were sharing just now, I was thinking about how even Jesus said the poor will always be with you. Whether it’s the poor or whether it’s,

Dr. Ioana Popa: love

Joy Hunt: you know, the person in whatever other crisis that they’re in.

There’s never gonna be a shortage of people that quote need us as ministers. But for us to be able to be present for them, that also means that we have to create, we have to create this healthy boundaries. We have to go into the quiet places. You know, we have to, if we’ve got a family, we have to be spending quality time with our family.

’cause if your, if your family falls apart, your church is gonna fall apart.

Dr. Ioana Popa: Exactly. Or the relationships. Right? The spouse is just so important. And I love what you said and that quote, if I remember correctly, is Christ towards his crucifixion

Joy Hunt: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ioana Popa: he needed them to be with him and said

Joy Hunt: Right? Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ioana Popa: time here. Let’s, let’s just, yeah. I think that

Joy Hunt: Yeah.

Dr. Ioana Popa: beautiful, thank you for that verse.

Jesus’ Example: When Self-Care Becomes Kingdom Priority

Joy Hunt: Right. Well, and, and I think it’s from [00:17:00] when, when I think it’s from when Mary Magdalene was watching washing his feet with the, and anointing his feet.

Dr. Ioana Popa: Yes. Right

Joy Hunt: they were like, you know, that could have been, that, that could have been sold and given to the poor. He’s like, you’re always gonna have the poor, but you’re not always gonna have me.

And there’s always gonna be people that we can serve. Yet even Jesus told his disciples to stop and spend time with me first.

Dr. Ioana Popa: Exactly. Exactly.

Joy Hunt: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Finding the Third Way: Balanced Self-Care Without Narcissism

Dr. Ioana Popa: So there’s a sense that, yeah, it’s the temple of God. We are worth it. We don’t need to indulge.

I think one of the mistakes that we do is that we think either self-indulgence and everything, the self-love is. Terrible. And we move away completely from that and say, well, I’m not gonna do anything when sometimes I, I’m, really reminded that the way in the past they were using the term self-love is more what we would call now narcissism. So, yeah, no one [00:18:00] wants that narcissism and self-indulgence, but between that and nothing, there’s a third way where we can do it with, in a minimal dose that actually makes us heart sing. You know what I mean? And joyful, and when I say minimal, I’m not talking about one shoe instead of a pair of shoes. Right? I mean, find the right balance. That is, it’s okay.

Applying Wisdom to Ministry and Money Decisions

Joy Hunt: And it’s the place where in scripture there are things that are black and white and there are things where we apply wisdom.

Dr. Ioana Popa: Exactly. Exactly.

Joy Hunt: and this is, I feel like this is one of those areas where it’s not so we’re, God has given us a task where we have to hold these things in both hands and say, I’m going to enjoy life because he came so that we could live life.

To live abundant life. Live life to its fullest,

Dr. Ioana Popa: Yes,

Joy Hunt: also live not for myself.

Dr. Ioana Popa: exactly.

Joy Hunt: and we are supposed to do both [00:19:00] of those things at the same time.

Dr. Ioana Popa: Yes.

Joy Hunt: You know? And it’s not, it’s, we’re not gonna take this one piece of scripture and only live there. We’re supposed to weigh the whole of scripture, which means we’re, which means we have to apply wisdom.

’cause wisdom is what, where in. In conversation with the Holy Spirit, where we learn, what do we apply where?

Love Your Neighbor As Yourself: The Forgotten Part

Dr. Ioana Popa: Exactly. And I, one of my favorite bible verses I was at a conference more than a decade ago and. The, person who introduced us said, well, if you’d be to pick up one Bible verse that will represent your work and your vocation, what would that be? And this verse came to mind and it’s guiding me all along.

It says, love your God with all your, and you know this right? With all your heart, with all your soul, and all your mind. And this is the first and great commandment. And the second is this, you shall love your neighbor as yourself. Matthew 22, 38, 39. This was New King James version. forget this piece as yourself, and [00:20:00] it’s not very much talked about in the church, but as a psychiatrist, you know, helping people.

The Psychology of Self-Rejection and Projection

Dr. Ioana Popa: I know when we reject parts of ourselves, we actually gonna project whatever it’s unlike inside. We, the shame, whenever we’re critical with ourselves, we project that onto others and we see it in others, but we don’t see it unto us. It’s just a natural psychological phenomenon. So as we learn to love ourself with compassion, humility, without exaggeration, we don’t need to put ourself on a pedestal.

You know, we’re one person out of 8 billion. What specific gifts though that are unique and God loves us, each and every one of us in our special way. So we are very special in a certain sense and unique, and the world needs you. when we have that compassion to ourselves, it just opens so much more compassion for others and giving.

And yes, we are limited and can we have compassion to that? I mean, we plug our phone [00:21:00] so many times through the day. My mind already, the battery’s kind of going downhill. we, right. We charge our computers and phone so many times a day. We need to do that for ourself, not just the body, but also emotions and the mind, and obviously nourishing our soul.

So.

How Unmet Emotional Needs Affect Ministry Leaders’ Money Decisions

Joy Hunt: in your experience then, how do some of those unmet emotional needs when we’re not, when we’re not loving ourselves, giving ourselves grace, how do those affect our relationship with money and how do, how can they and really leads to other difficulties?

Dr. Ioana Popa: Such a great question. I mean, I think it’s gonna look to differently to different people, but the most important needs, I don’t know if the listener is familiar with the Maslow Pyramid of

Joy Hunt: Mm-hmm.

Maslow’s Hierarchy: Why Financial Needs Are Foundational

Dr. Ioana Popa: an important psychological framework, which kind of, which brings this idea that. We have needs, even Christ needs, like on the cross, he said, I’m thirsty. Like he had needs. [00:22:00] We have needs and when we can, allow ourselves to fulfill these needs again in moderation within bounds. It’s so helpful to help us to, move forward. So at the ba, at the base of the pyramid are safety needs and then the needs for belonging emotional needs of recognition.

I mean, that’s important. We don’t have to be proud in order to have that. It’s just. We’re special in God and we need to feel that, and we love to give it to others. The same of need for self-actualization. So it kind of moves forward on the pyramid, and I think the financial needs are important because they go to the base, the basic needs that we have for a place to stay for safety for. Food.

Joy Hunt: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ioana Popa: are basic needs. Nevermind moving even further. We need money for that, you know, in order to have relationships or invite a friend to offer [00:23:00] hospitality to you know, enjoy, have that gym membership or whatever other needs we might have. And I think the biggest thing that I wrestled with, and I see it in many Christians with money, is. I don’t, I’m not gonna speak for others, but I’ve seen this often and in myself as well, that somehow money is evil. There’s this mindset that, uh, there’s something wrong with money. I mean, we all remember Christ in the temple moving the tables out and reminder that I’m, keep bringing myself to it, that money is a tool.

Money as a Tool: Co-Creation Between God and Humanity

Dr. Ioana Popa: We wouldn’t say internet is evil. We wouldn’t say the books are evil or sometimes people, I mean just on themselves,

Joy Hunt: Right.

Dr. Ioana Popa: and we can use them for the Kingdom of God or not. So the money, I almost see it like a co-creation. I.

Joy Hunt: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ioana Popa: God’s creation and resources and human sweat and [00:24:00] resources and work, right?

So it’s this, it’s more than a symbol. It really encapsulates so much more of this co-creation between God’s creation and the human creation and when it’s handled properly, when we can, really. Use it for the kingdom,

Joy Hunt: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ioana Popa: taking care of our needs, our family needs, and whatnot in moderation. It can be such a blessing. Like think about it if someone has the resources, and we know so many people in this world that they have lots of resources. What a blessing that then maybe they can give their tithing my involved a million dollar donation. Like there are

Joy Hunt: Right.

Dr. Ioana Popa: that, right? What a blessing for different ministries for different people and why. Not be participant in that flow. And depending on, you know, where the listener are, maybe they’re in a mission and they’re vows of poverty that they still need to, they sure they might not [00:25:00] exchange. I know in my tradition we have monks and nuns, you know, and they don’t necessarily handle that, but they still do.

Joy Hunt: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ioana Popa: Because they need to eat and they might sell icons or might sell whatever, you know, soap or whatever they do, cheesecake, they still, there’s a transaction. So that, to me, it’s a beautiful exchange when it’s done in love, when it’s done for a purpose, when it’s done for for the kingdom, it can serve. So I’m curious, what are your thoughts, joy, because your podcast is about this and I’m curious what kind of mindsets you are encountering.

Transition to Part 2: Practical Solutions Ahead

Joy Hunt: Dr. Popa just asked about the financial mindsets I encounter, and we’re about to dive into that, but there’s so much gold in what she’s about to share that I wanted to give it the attention it deserves. In part two, we’ll explore how the same emotional and physical patterns that affect our money decisions also impact our time, energy, and ministry boundaries because as Dr. Popa shows us, you can’t separate financial health from overall wellness and ministry.

[00:26:00] I hope this conversation has already given you some things to think about regarding the connection between stress and your financial decisions. Make sure you don’t miss part two. It’s packed with practical steps. You can start taking today Until next time.

Joy Suzanne Hunt: Thank you for listening to today’s show. I’d love to know what you think about it. You can leave a comment on the show notes at pastorsandmoney.com/podcast, or email me at joy@pastorsandmoney.com. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe, share, and leave a review. This helps us to get the word out and invite more people into these conversations.

If you’d like to connect, you can find me on Instagram or Facebook. @ PastorsandMoney. I can’t wait to talk again [00:27:00] soon.