In this episode, Steve McKinney, a bestselling author, fitness coach, Brazilian Jiujitsu black belt, and pastor, shares his journey of integrating his passion for fitness with his faith and how it became a gym ministry. He discusses the importance of aging gracefully, maintaining physical health, and how his unique three W approach to fitness can transform lives. Steve also touches on the challenges of maintaining healthy eating habits in ministry and emphasizes the significance of self-care for effective leadership.

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Resources from this Episode:

The Gospel of Fitness by Steve McKinney (available on Amazon)

Fitness and More Website

Part Two of Steve’s Interview

Transcript:

Joy Suzanne: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Pastors & Money Podcast. I’m Joy Suzanne Hunt, pastor and financial coach, bringing you conversations about personal finance, church finance and how we disciple our churches in the areas of finance and stewardship. You can find the episode show notes, and more at pastorsandmoney.com. And here’s the show.

Joy Hunt: Today we have an incredible guest on the show, someone who truly embodies strength, resilience, and faith. Steve McKinney is a bestselling author, fitness coach, and Brazilian Jiujitsu black belt dedicated to. Helping people age strong and live healthier lives. As the owner of Fitness and More Incorporated, he has helped countless individuals transform their bodies through his unique three W approach to fitness.

And why is he [00:01:00] on this podcast? Well, Steve is also a church pastor, integrating faith and mindset into his approach to wellness. His book, the Gospel of Fitness, breaks down the Science of Strength training and Nutrition in a way that’s practical, sustainable, and life-changing. Well, Steve, welcome to the podcast.

Steve McKinney: It’s great to be here. Joy, thank you for having me. I’m excited about being here and talking today.

The Beginning of a Gym Ministry: From K-Mart Weights to Life-Changing Faith

Joy Hunt: So Steve, you’ve had quite a journey from converting your garage into a gym to becoming a personal trainer, a fitness business owner, and author alongside your ministry. So could you share a bit about your background and how you came to blend your passion for fitness with your faith and your ministry work?

Steve McKinney: Absolutely. So, for me, I just always loved lifting weights. I mean, since my childhood. I talk about this in the book, but my grandfather bought me a set of weights when I was nine years old from a place called Kmart. Now, if there’s any…

Joy Hunt: I used to work there.

Steve McKinney: I was gonna say not a lot of people know Kmart, but some [00:02:00] do. And so I always get a laugh out of that whenever I mention it. But they were these plastic weights that he bought me, and I went home and bought this book by a guy named Franco Colombo. And I lifted weights six days a week. Now, I’m nine years old, so I’m not making any gains, but I’m loving it. I’m just loving it! And so then we fast forward. I lifted weights for a long period. Back then, I wasn’t walking with the Lord.

Both of my parents got sick when they were younger. My father passed away at 49 from cancer. My mother died at 49 on Christmas morning; she died in my arms. Now, the interesting thing about that is her dying words were served. Jesus, tell your brother to serve Jesus. So, at the time, I didn’t even know what that meant, and I was trying to go back to church at the time, and it just didn’t work.

There’s a point in time where, you know, we hit that rock bottom moment. I was on my knees. I remember exactly where I was when I just said, “Jesus, you know I’ve heard a lot about you, but I don’t even know if you’re real. But if you are, would you show me?” And nothing happened at that moment, but as I was driving to [00:03:00] work a few weeks later, I knew something had changed.

Building Community Through Fitness Ministry

That was kind of the beginning of the journey. One of the local gyms had closed, and so I converted my garage into a gym. And back then, I had monthly members. Now you have to remember, I’m right in the middle of a residential area. But I go to the city, and I get a business permit or a business license. And I got 50 members a month into my residence, and my neighbors are not happy at all with it.

Joy Hunt: Who’s taking my parking spot?

Steve McKinney: Exactly, exactly. What I noticed, though, one thing that I noticed, people would always ask me questions: Hey, how do I, you know? Can you set up a routine? How do I lift weights like this? What about a diet?

So, I kind of thought, you know, I think this might be better as a personal training studio. So back then, there was a magazine called Muscle and Fitness. They had in the back of it, they [00:04:00] had post office boxes where you could buy things. And I sent $5 to this place in California and got my first personal training book on how to become a personal trainer. I just devoured that. So then, what I did was, I kept records of all my clients, what they did, and how long they would last. Then I developed a system with that. Now, in the middle of that, when I had the monthly memberships, one of my members was a Christian, and he brought his Bible. We would have faith questions and things like that.

And so then I started going back to church, and from there, I would lead small groups. I would lead bible studies. And the next thing I know, by just a very weird set of circumstances, running a church. I had no plans on doing that, but I felt like I was called to do it, and I also felt like I was still supposed to do my [00:05:00] gym as well. And I’ve done that for a long time. And the beauty of it is it’s a great avenue for evangelism

Joy Hunt: Hmm.

Steve McKinney: A lot of people who come to the gym now go to church, and there are people from church who need to get in shape. And so I help them with that. So that’s the background of how everything took off.

The Importance of Community Connections in Ministry

Joy Hunt: That’s fun. I’m glad you have that connection there still, and you’re still running the gym because that’s not the path for everybody. Every pastor needs a place where they’re involved in the community. On some level, so that you’re running into people that aren’t Christians

Steve McKinney: No, you’re absolutely right…

Joy Hunt: And sometimes logistically that’s hard to make that happen.

Steve McKinney: It really is. And with the overwhelming jobs that we have as pastors…

Joy Hunt: Mm-hmm.

Steve McKinney: For me, it’s really important to do.

Joy Hunt: Mm-hmm.

Steve McKinney: I do see some local pastors who are just inside the church and the church alone, and that is not healthy.

It is just [00:06:00] not healthy, I don’t think. I think you have to have friends outside of the church, and you have to have, you know, non-Christian friends. For me, the beauty of it is that my personal training gym is connected to a Jujitsu school that I run with my son. Tons of people are non-Christians who are in there.

And so I have this great opportunity to share faith, and I never force it, but when it’s available, we just run with it. And you know, it’s just a fun place. For me, exercise is medicine for my brain. It’s medicine for my body as well, but I have to do it. It keeps me sane.

Joy Hunt: Yeah. And just a side note for our listeners, too: Make sure you have something that has you regularly running into people, and spending time with people, who are not believers. You know, for some of us, that’s the PTA at our kids’ school. For me, I had to be intentional about it because I run my business from my home office, and I work for my church from my home office. My role is in the church.

And, I don’t have kids, I don’t [00:07:00] have a spouse whose coworkers I’m running into or anything like that. So I had to think about how to make sure that I’m meeting people outside of just people who are believers.

Navigating Cultural Challenges in Fitness Spaces

Steve McKinney: And has it worked out for you pretty well like that when in what you’re doing?

Joy Hunt: So what, it ended up working out for me for a while, is that I was part of a great spin studio. I would go to spin class 4, 5, 6 times a week. Unfortunately, the place I was part of closed. And the one that I transferred over to was not a good cultural fit. So I haven’t found the next groove yet.

It was kind of an interesting thing of finding a place where you’re with people who are not believers, but that the culture is not so overwhelmingly.

Steve McKinney: Toxic.

Joy Hunt: Toxic. So I decided that the place I had transitioned to—had wonderful people. They love each other, They loved me.

But also, I realized that I was maxed out on foul language for the week.

Steve McKinney: Yeah.

Joy Hunt: I was like, there’s only so much I can [00:08:00] take. So, you know, as I’m like, okay, this isn’t it. ‘Cause it seeps into your brain. And that’s always a trick of finding the place where you can plug in, where it’s where you’re rubbing off on them and not the other way around.

Steve McKinney: That’s it.

Joy Hunt: Yeah.

Steve McKinney: When it comes to music in the jujitsu

Joy Hunt: Mm-hmm.

Steve McKinney: It’s like that.

Joy Hunt: You get it

Steve McKinney: But yeah, I’m like, no, no, no. We’re changing that.

Joy Hunt: Right.

Steve McKinney: Bud, we can go best of the eighties,

Joy Hunt: Mm-hmm.

Steve McKinney: We’re not going in that direction.

Joy Hunt: Right.

Steve McKinney: You know, I just try to be careful with that.

Joy Hunt: Yeah. Well, that’s especially true for me. I’m very much an auditory learner. I’m a musician, and so music seeps into the back of my brain. The place I had been at before, if they had an explicit playlist, it was marked that way, so I could avoid those ones.

Steve McKinney: Yeah.

Joy Hunt: This place was not that way. That was just not the culture, and that’s okay. That’s their culture. That’s, you know, it’s not my job to go in there and change them, but I was also honest that this is not replenishing me anymore.

Steve McKinney: No, I totally agree with that. You know, for me, I can have control of that,

Joy Hunt: Right?

Steve McKinney: There are times when I’ll go in and I’m not running the class and I’m like, yeah,

Joy Hunt: Mm-hmm.

Steve McKinney: I’m out.

Joy Hunt: Right.

Steve McKinney: So I

Joy Hunt: Yeah.

Steve McKinney: get that.

Joy Hunt: You know, it’s one thing to be in for one [00:09:00] class, a drop in, but it’s something else for that to be someplace you’re spending five or six days a week.

Steve McKinney: Absolutely.

Joy Hunt: That’s a different thing. But what’s funny is, I have a list of people that I’m texting about church and Easter Sunday tomorrow. The day we’re recording this episode is the day before Easter.

And a couple of the names are people that I met in spin class.

Steve McKinney: Love it.

Joy Hunt: Because they knew I was a pastor. So, eventually, people start talking to you about stuff.

Steve McKinney: They do. You know, one of the things, like if I’m in an airplane and I don’t wanna talk to someone, someone wants to talk to me. If I wanna talk to someone to ask me what I do, I’m like, oh, I’m a personal fitness trainer. If I don’t wanna talk to ’em, I’ll go, yeah, I’m a pastor.

That usually ends the conversation right there.

Joy Hunt: Until, unless you’re on a really long ride and eventually they come back. And so what’s that like? Anyways,

Aging Gracefully in Ministry: Understanding the Physical and Mental Connection

Joy Hunt: So in your book, the Gospel of Fitness, you talk about aging gracefully. What does that mean to you, and why do you think that’s important for pastors and ministry leaders, especially?

Steve McKinney: I think with pastors, in our space, we have a lot of pressure. You look it up, there’s a study, I think [00:10:00] it’s two out of three pastors have mental health issues, or emotional health issues, because of the pressure that we go through.

Joy Hunt: Did you say two out of three?

Steve McKinney: Two out of three.

Joy Hunt: Wow!

Steve McKinney: And so, I feel that a lot personally. I just noticed that there are times when I’m like just over it. This week was a horrible week. I was telling you in a pre-interview, just a horrible week. Horrible. And, it was stressful. I take on a lot of people’s stress, you know, I’m very empathetic. So it physically makes me sick.

Joy Hunt: Mm-hmm.

Steve McKinney: It does. But I think to answer the question, we have to learn to allow ourselves to be human. And we also have to learn to realize that we can’t be everything to everyone. I think this is important for us to remember, but do what you can. Aging gracefully really is just allowing myself to understand what happens for me at 64 years old, that I can’t do the things that I [00:11:00] do at 50. And I’m very, very fortunate because I can do a lot at 64. Physically, I still lift weights. I still train with young guys.

I love that. That’s fun for me. But I also have to be careful not to overdo it. One thing that I recently had to do was because I have trouble saying no and trying to

Joy Hunt: Mm-hmm.

Steve McKinney: fix people. I’m not a micromanager at all. But it’s hard for me to say no when people come to me and ask for things. But my wife, you know… she had said, you know, you just work way too much. We had a little intervention for me. So I talked to my, you know, just some of the elder people and just said, “Hey, listen, here’s where I’m at.” You know, so we decided to let my wife run my preaching schedule. And so now, I’m doing three weeks on and one week off. And that seems to be effective. Although I think people, you know, if you’re a pastor, everybody wants you there the whole time, you know, but man, that’s hard.

The Physical Battle: Fighting Aging and Muscle Loss

That [00:12:00] is hard. But as far as the physical part of aging gracefully, I think it’s important that we have to fight back. Because I talk about this in the book, there are several things that we’re fighting. The first thing we’re fighting is aging. And that aging thing hits us at about 35 years old.

Physically, if we’re not doing something, the decline begins to happen. You begin to lose. The number one thing that happens with aging is the loss of muscle. That is the number one thing: fighting aging. We’re fighting muscle loss. It’s called sarcopenia. It’s called age-related muscle loss. We are fighting fat gain when you, you know, just the way the church is designed and, you know, just the way our culture is designed. And if you lose muscle, it’s called disuse atrophy. You can eat the same amount of food, but you begin to gain body fat. Your clothes don’t fit the way that they used to.

You know, another thing, and I talk about this a lot with people. We’re finding hopelessness, a lot of times even in the ministry. I know for [00:13:00] me, my big wake-up call was probably in 2022. I did like eight, maybe it was early 2023, I don’t remember. It was very early on, but I did eight funerals within 12 weeks, and a lot of those were my friends. I had coffee with them in the morning. You know, and it was really crazy. And I remember being upstairs, just by my kitchen table, and I was like, “Wow, I am really sad. And I don’t know why.” So I just immediately had this prayer. I just said, “Jesus, enter into this for me ’cause. I dunno what’s going on.”

And a little while later, I had a thought. A lady whose name was Karen. I had the thought, Karen came to my mind and I realized I had known her. She was actually one of the first people that I’d ever invited, it was before I was a pastor, into our small group. And I realized that I had not grieved any of those because as a pastor, you know, you always, I always go up front, and I’m like, I have to [00:14:00] lead people in a professional way. Like, you know, I don’t wanna show a lot of emotion. I don’t wanna fall apart here.

Joy Hunt: Right.

Steve McKinney: I just went from one to the next. And so I actually went and talked to a counselor over it. I’m like, Hey, I don’t even know how to do this. And so I allow myself to grieve. I think that’s part of treating yourself gracefully as you age. I think it’s part of treating yourself gracefully at any time. But just to allow yourself, Hey, you gotta grieve. You know, you have to go through these things. I know it’s very difficult, you know, at the end of, I do two services on Sunday and I am always wiped out after. I am just absolutely wiped out after those. And so just allowing my, and that is so hard for me to do. Like I should be able to do these and you know, other people can do ’em and I can’t.

And so, I give everything I have to every one of those and the prep and the whole nine yards. So I think just being aware of what’s going on and not just grinding through, trying to be in the moment. Try to [00:15:00] remember. Relationships matter, the church isn’t mine, it’s the Lord’s, I’m serving there. You know, all of those things. But it’s so easy to miss that, especially when you have a thousand people plucking at you. You know what I mean? It’s, it’s really challenging there. So yeah, that’s my, just my, you know, just some thoughts on aging gracefully. And I think I’ll add to that, I think that, and I write a lot about this, is understanding how to treat yourself physically.

Joy Hunt: Mm-hmm.

Steve McKinney: physical aspect, it adds to the mental, there’s a spiritual, it’s connected,

Joy Hunt: Mm-hmm.

Steve McKinney: I know, with what I do. It is connected. Everything is connected, you know. Physical, spiritual, emotional, and it is. And so the beauty of how I set the whole thing up, and I’m sure we’ll talk about the three W approach, but that’s the beauty of the efficiency of how I approach it. So those are my thoughts on aging gracefully.

The Mind-Body Connection: How Physical Health Impacts Ministry

Joy Hunt: I was thinking about, you said all those things are connected and this week I had like a weird [00:16:00] schedule. I had jury duty. It was just a week. and so some things were kind of disrupted here and there, and I didn’t get most of my normal walking in that I’ve been trying to be more intentional about.

I love a good walk. Even better if there’s sunshine. But even if not, I don’t care. get all these good things. I was finding myself like the first day, it wasn’t such a big deal, and the second day it was, okay, well, I’m having trouble sleeping ’cause my muscles are like, you didn’t take me out today.

Steve McKinney: Yes,

Joy Hunt: And then,

Steve McKinney: right.

Joy Hunt: And I am sitting down to have my quiet time, and I’m having trouble focusing as I get through the week. Jury duty’s kinda stressful when you’re like, am I getting called? Am I not? Do I have to cancel all of my coaching appointments next week?

Steve McKinney: Yeah.

Joy Hunt: You know? But, I was realizing, like I was feeling all these, like it’s impacting me spiritually, it’s impacting me mentally, emotionally, and I’m like, okay, Saturday I have to do something. I [00:17:00] have to move my feet.

Steve McKinney: Yes. I agree. I love the outside walk. And as I was telling you earlier. Allergies are really bad in the area, but it got me this time.

Joy Hunt: Mm-hmm.

Steve McKinney: I got behind it. And, last night I had so much trouble sleeping, and then allergies were bad. I had a very stressful, stressful week, and that just breaks me down every single time when I have extreme conflict, and I had that this week. I get sick every time, which frustrates me to no end, you know?

Joy Hunt: Yeah.

Steve McKinney: It’s quite a challenge

Joy Hunt: Yeah. And just being aware of how all those factors that impact our body and how our body impacts everything else. because that lets you at least set some guardrails, or at least know what’s happening. You know, for me, I know kind of what my alarm bells are. and so, okay, like even if I can’t do anything about it right then, it’s not so.

Scary. Feeling a certain way and going, okay, wait, that’s an alarm. I know what that is.

Steve McKinney: yeah,

Joy Hunt: You know,

Steve McKinney: Yeah,

Joy Hunt: it’s like when the car alarm goes off down the street and you’re not stressed out about it because, okay, [00:18:00] wait, I know what that is. I know what that sound is. That’s different from the fire alarm in your house,

Steve McKinney: a hundred percent.

Joy Hunt: right?

Steve McKinney: And I’d recognize those, but I think a lot of times, pastors would be able to relate to this, you gotta deal with this one fire

Joy Hunt: Mm-hmm.

Steve McKinney: didn’t see the other one coming

Joy Hunt: Right.

Steve McKinney: I had a bunch

Joy Hunt: Mm-hmm.

Steve McKinney: it just got, just kind of got ahead of me this week.

Navigating Food-Centered Ministry Culture: Practical Health Strategies

Joy Hunt: Yeah. that’s tough. So let’s talk about something that can be really a struggle for pastors is the fact that so much of our ministry centers around food. It’s potlucks, it’s coffee meetings, it’s fellowship dinners. And so sometimes when we’re trying to. Maintain healthy eating habits, especially I feel like when you’re trying to make a shift to putting some healthy eating habits in place.

Yet you’re dealing with hospitality and all these other things, and you’re not even thinking about what you put in your mouth ’cause you’re sitting in there in a potluck, and there all these people are asking you questions. So, how can we navigate those situations and maintain or build healthy [00:19:00] habits at the same time?

Steve McKinney: That’s a great question. I call that the acceptable sin in the church, the potluck, the overeating, the whole nine yards. Because we have that, you know, every Sunday they have a, somebody brings in breakfast for

Joy Hunt: Hmm.

Steve McKinney: You know, for the music team and all those things. I’ll tell you what I do. I stay away from it.

Joy Hunt: Mm-hmm.

Steve McKinney: Eat in, in those situations, which some people think is rude. I make it a priority. Now, I’ll give you some background on why I do that, but I’ve done this before. This happened a couple of years ago. I’ll go back to another stressful meeting that I’d had. It was just one of those really, really, really terrible ones. And I got sick, and I developed this cough. So I was being treated for pneumonia. I was taking antibiotics, and I was taking inhalers. Nothing was working. It had calmed down for a while, then it had come back, and it had calmed two years of this chronic cough. And then you have, you know, well, my dad died from a chronic cough.

You know, when you have all those things that [00:20:00] happened, well, about eight months ago, finally got it diagnosed and it’s called silent gerd. Silent GERD is like, heard of gerd? It’s, GERD is basically heartburn and it’s, you know, like if you eat a, some food that’s too spicy

Joy Hunt: Mm-hmm.

Steve McKinney: you get heartburn, silent GERDs not like that. Silent GERD is, it’s when food travels back up your esophagus or food particles, and it aspirates into your lungs. Causing you to cough. And so I finally got diagnosed with that, and I’ve never been, you know, I’m always very healthy. So I had to go on meds, I recently had, I had four biopsies done. had an endoscopy, and thank God that everything turned out clean. I’m on a really strict diet now. I mean it, because if I eat the wrong foods, it comes back on.

Joy Hunt: Hmm.

Steve McKinney: So for me, I have a reason not

Joy Hunt: Right.

Steve McKinney: not to eat that.

Dealing with Food Addiction and Making Intentional Choices

But here’s [00:21:00] what I would say in those situations, you don’t wanna be rude. In those situations, ’cause people look at that as, you know, oh, you’re not eating my food. I mean, you know that they, I mean, people really get offended by that, I think that…I think being very intentional and being very conscious.

Joy Hunt: Mm-hmm.

Steve McKinney: I’ll give you an example. If you know you have a coffee thing and they bring donuts in, you might wanna skip the donut unless you can eat just one. It’s very rare, though, that you can, because foods like that. Foods that are processed,

Joy Hunt: Mm-hmm.

Steve McKinney: They are designed to intentionally addict you. They’re designed to light up the pleasure centers of your brain, just like drugs would; that’s where the addiction happens. And so you, you know, I’ll have clients that come into my gym, and some of them will be very, very overweight, and I will tell them, listen, here’s where you’re at. You’re addicted [00:22:00] to these particular foods, you’re addicted to soda, you’re addicted to potato chips. And the question always is, well, can I just cut down? And I always say, listen, if I have a person that comes in and they’re addicted to crack. and they ask me, can I just cut down? The answer is no, because addiction is the same across the board.

Joy Hunt: Right.

Steve McKinney: It still goes into that pleasure center and that addictive part of your brain. Now, the problem with food as opposed to drugs, you can quit those drugs completely, right?

Joy Hunt: You can’t go cold Turkey on food.

Steve McKinney: Correct. You have to eat. And so my diet is miserable now, but what I’ve found, that I have to eat real food. God forbid that I would have to do the things we’re supposed to be doing. But my diet is basically oatmeal with bananas. I have brown rice with vegetables, you know, some black beans. I can’t eat a lot of meat that triggers, which I used to be a big steak eater. And I, I would love [00:23:00] eating that kind of stuff, but that triggers all the bad as well. But now I just eat real food.

Honestly, it’s a blessing in disguise, in that sense. And so I think trying to really just be aware. If you’re trying to be healthy, to have that, because, you know, after I’m finished on Sunday, I am, I’m not only tired, I’m hungry.

Joy Hunt: Mm-hmm.

Steve McKinney: A lot of times, I know a lot of pastors go out to eat with people after, and I generally don’t do that simply because of the stomach stuff that I have. and I’m an introvert, which makes it really, really hard. If you’re an introverted pastor, people look at you totally differently. but even going out to eat, it’s so easy to overeat.

Joy Hunt: Mm-hmm.

Steve McKinney: I think you just have to be very intentional. But I have, helped a lot of pastors over the years. One of the things I used to do when I first started was I would train pastors for free because I knew how stressful the job was.

But then I had so many coming to me, I’m like, I can’t, you know, I got a business to run

Joy Hunt: Right.

Steve McKinney: I just would tell [00:24:00] them, Hey, listen, here’s what we have to do. I have one friend who would always joke. We had a bakery near my first gym, and he would always come to the gym, and then he’d go to the bakery after.

So he didn’t wanna watch his diet, but I just think being aware and being very conscious of that, and then being gracious. To people, you know, ’cause people are like, oh, try my cookies and, you know, church people can cook. You know, that’s really something that you have to look at. So, trying to just eat one or two things like that is very, very helpful.

Just letting people know. So listen, I’m trying to, you know, get some of this weight off, and I just wanna feel better so I can serve you better.

Joy Hunt: Mm-hmm.

Steve McKinney: You know,

Joy Hunt: Yeah.

Steve McKinney: But my crew knows. You know, I’m not doing any of that. I’ve just been very clear with that.

It’s just like a, you know, sometimes I’m like, what are y’all eating in here? This is poison. I mess with them a lot too.

Resources and Final Thoughts: The Gospel of Fitness

Joy Hunt: I love it. Awesome. Well, tell us where we can find the book and more about what you’re doing.

Steve McKinney: Yeah, it’s on Amazon. It’s called the Gospel of Fitness by Steve McKinney.

If people need to get in contact with me there, there’s a form. Just an intro workout form [00:25:00] on my website. It’s fitnessandmore.net . And then, I’m on Instagram and I’m terrible at using it, but I’m fitness and more SST on Instagram. And I’m on Facebook as Steve McKinney. So, if anybody wants to get in contact with me, and you know, if I can help. Anyway, I’m more than happy to do that.

Joy Hunt: I love how Steve reminds us that we have to allow ourselves to be human in ministry. The pressure we face is real, and ignoring our physical health won’t make us more spiritual. It’ll just make us less effective leaders. And here’s something we don’t talk about enough. When we are constantly stressed and exhausted, we make poor financial decisions too.

It’s hard to budget wisely or teach stewardship when you’re running on empty. In our next conversation, Steve breaks down his three W system that takes just minutes a day, but can transform how we handle ministry stress. For now, remember, taking care of yourself isn’t selfish. It’s stewardship.

Joy Suzanne Hunt: Thank you for listening to today’s show. I’d love to know what you think about it. You can leave a comment on the [00:26:00] show notes at pastorsandmoney.com/podcast, or email me at joy@pastorsandmoney.com. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe, share, and leave a review. This helps us to get the word out and invite more people into these conversations.

If you’d like to connect, you can find me on Instagram or Facebook. @ PastorsandMoney. I can’t wait to talk again soon.