In this powerful conversation with fighter pilot and attention coach Wes Woodhouse, we explore the growing ‘attention gap’ affecting our spiritual lives and practical strategies to overcome it. Discover how the disciplined focus techniques used in the cockpit can transform your relationship with God, your family, and your ministry. Learn why our fragmented attention is costing us more than we realize and how simple changes can restore depth to your spiritual life.

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Resources from this episode:

• Wes Woodhouse & Vector Atlas
• Full Focus Planner
• Part Two of Focus Like a Fighter Pilot

Interview Transcript: Introduction [00:00:00]

Joy Hunt: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Pastors & Money Podcast. I’m Joy Suzanne Hunt, pastor and financial coach, bringing you conversations about personal finance, church finance, and how we disciple our churches in the areas of finance and stewardship. You can find the episode show notes and more at pastorsandmoney.com. And here’s the show.

Joy Hunt: Wes Woodhouse is a husband, father, marathon runner, and fighter pilot. His mission is to build up the next generation of leaders armed to take on the dynamic challenges of the attention age. In 2020, he founded Vector Atlas, a leadership development and attention cultivation agency where he leads a mastermind of committed men, grounded in wise counsel and accountability, striving to [00:01:00] live a life of purpose.

As an attention performance coach, he helps leaders maximize their potential by focusing on what is most important. We welcome to the podcast.

Wes Woodhouse: Thanks for having me.

From Fighter Pilot to Attention Coach: Wes’s Journey [00:01:19]

Joy Hunt: So to start, you have a pretty neat background as a fighter pilot. Can you share how you got started there and what led you to become passionate about the topic of attention?

Wes Woodhouse: Yeah, they are a little bit intertwined. I’d wanted to be a pilot ever since I was very young, before eighth grade. So I figured out what I needed to do to get there. I worked hard, studied hard in high school, and studied hard in college. I got selected. Got my Air Force commission and was selected for pilot training. Studied hard in pilot training. Then I got to fly. I was selected to fly fighters, which is pretty neat.

The F-15 is a fantastic jet and can do a lot of awesome things. So it has been a lot of fun. Kind of what spawned out of that experience, and out of the experience of reaching my [00:02:00] goal of becoming a fighter pilot, and then realizing. Wow. I lost my way a little bit. That was the end-all, be-all to become a pilot. And when I did that, that goal was complete. I realized there was no further goal. So I had a period of trying to figure out where my life was going and what I needed to do. I love flying and everything, and that led me down the path of listening to podcasts and reading lots of books.

And, combining that with some of the skills that it takes to be a pilot, specifically a fighter pilot, realized that it is very important. I think it is not given the credit that it is due. As far as you know, we all know. Spend your time wisely because you can’t bring back any of the past minutes, hours, days, or years of your life. Attention is in many ways the current. The actions that are going on inside those minutes that you are using that you’ll never get back. [00:03:00] So, I’ve kind of been a student of my attention, as well as the collective attention of society. And it’s been a very interesting journey.

Understanding the Attention Gap in Today’s World [00:03:13]

Joy Hunt: So you have talked a little bit about the growing attention gap in America, in the world, and some of the things that you’ve shared and you’ve written. So could you explain what you mean by that concept and why it matters? For our listeners in this particular podcast are pastors and church leaders, mostly.

Wes Woodhouse: Yes, the attention gap. I believe we are in a period, and it’s backed up by data, The World Economic Forum, back in 2020. They always put out an assessment for the next five years or so. And they put out an assessment of what skills will be most needed in the workplace. And the 10 skills that they identified were cognitive, analytical, critical decision-making, and complex decision-making, critical thinking.

Things that are not manual skills. Even communication in many ways is a manual skill. Although since we’re communicating with other humans, it does take a level of attention that you need to bring to that conversation to be able to go in the direction that that conversation needs to go for whatever the context is.

So they (the WEF) put out this list of the top skills that the workplace is gonna need in 2025. It’s 2025 right now. Here we are, adding to the complexity, the advent of AI over the last couple of years, which in many ways attempts to offload some of those decision-making, critical thinking skills off of the human.

But that is kind of the standard, the workplace needs these skills, and If you look at society and the way that we use our attention, it is trending away from those types of needs for active attention [00:05:00] in the moment. Many of us fall prey to the endless feeds of social media. YouTube or those various things. The Netflix binges. There’s just a constant inflow into our presence, our attention, of entertainment or information.

So that has created a loop where we are practicing, not committing active attention over periods of time, then that begets, eventually, a struggle or an inability to bring active, long-term attention. The attention required to. Solve problems. use your critical thinking and your complex decision-making skills to affect problem-solving for yourself or your employer, or whoever it is. And so there’s that gap that is growing,

How the Attention Gap Affects Our Problem-Solving Abilities [00:05:42]

Wes Woodhouse: Where we have robots and systems that can take away the lower level rote [00:06:00] tasks, you know, manual type tasks, we as a human, the skills that we bring to the workplace are the very skills that are atrophying because of habits that are brought on primarily by technology. but in other ways as well. So that is the attention gap where there’s that need for attention and that need is growing and the supply in many ways is diminishing significantly. and, you know, what, what can we do about it?

I think the number one thing is to a, be aware that this is a thing and that hey. Many of the habits that we have in our lives today are not conducive to solving the problems of the world right now. Solving at whatever level, whether it’s personal, household type of problems, parenting, being a husband or a wife, finances, personal finances, whether it’s for your employer, executing on the things that they need you to do for them, which they hired you to do, the church, government, whatever it [00:07:00] is.

So that is the attention gap that as I see it,

Joy Hunt: It sounds like it’s almost like a muscle that it’s not getting used. And you use the word atrophy,

Wes Woodhouse: Yes.

Joy Hunt: Right?

Wes Woodhouse: Your brain is, you know, attention is your conscious mind,

Joy Hunt: ~~Mm-hmm.~~

Wes Woodhouse: Powered by your brain, which is a giant muscle.

Joy Hunt: Right.

Wes Woodhouse: That’s very accurate. Yes.

The Attention Gap and Faith: How Distraction Affects Our Spiritual Lives [00:07:24]

Joy Hunt: Yeah. So as Christians we have, kind of a unique focus in that we are called to fix our eyes on Jesus and be intentional about our spiritual focus.

So how do you see the attention gap affecting people’s faith walks today?

Wes Woodhouse: I think it’s very similar to the societal or the personal type of realm. The spiritual realm is kind of a separate domain, but it suffers from a lot of the same types of things. Where, the hard thing to do, the thing that we know we should do to put in the reps, so to speak. Deepening our relationship with God at many times comes at the expense of [00:08:00] choosing to do the easier thing. Instead of opening up my Bible app and reading today’s chapter of the Bible, it’s, let me check the social media of choice right now. And then that goes down the rabbit hole. Then 45 minutes later, you pop back up and you’re like, whoa, where did that last better part of an hour go? Same thing with prayer time. It is difficult.

It is the way that our brains have kind of been in many ways molded by not even, you know, ’cause I am not on social media at all now, but just the way that lives are set up as far as the, the internet and having the constant access to information. It’s very easy to be on that very kind of sporadic, from one thing to another, to another kind of squirrel type of mentality.

You know, the dog from Up, distracted by the next closest novel thing that picks up your attention. When you’re trying to pray [00:09:00] and, listen, it’s very difficult because our minds are constantly used to switch, switch, switch. And it’s hard to stay in line. what’s the fix for that? Again, you have to come to terms with, yeah, I struggle with this. And so, recognize that that’s a thing. Have the desire to fix it.

Creating an Environment for Spiritual Focus [00:09:12]

Joy Hunt: Yeah.

Wes Woodhouse: To actually spend a significant amount of time and attention on your relationship with Christ. And like you said, fixing your eyes on Jesus. And then being willing to put in the reps. I find in building the environment, that in a lot of coaching calls. Or, I’m helping somebody out with progressing in a specific portion of their lives. A lot of it is just setting up your environment to be more conducive to getting what you need done or putting yourself in the mindset that you need, and less conducive to the next easiest. You know, like we’ve been talking about [00:10:00] the slippery slope of the urgent on fire, easy,

Joy Hunt: ~~Mm-hmm.~~

Wes Woodhouse: mostly inconsequential thing that

Joy Hunt: Right.

Wes Woodhouse: gives us that little dopamine hit because we can check it off the list. But in all reality, it doesn’t hold the same importance as whatever else we’re sacrificing. And so, yeah, being willing to set up your environment such that it’s more conducive to getting those habits onboard. Putting in those reps. I always like to use reps, because in many ways that’s what it is.

Joy Hunt: ~~Mm-hmm.~~

Wes Woodhouse: Pray without ceasing. That’s reps of just constantly being in prayer.

Practical Steps to Eliminate Distractions [00:10:36]

Joy Hunt: So thinking about setting up that environment. For me, that looks like turning off as many notifications as I can do on my phone, or putting it on do not disturb if I’m going into my quiet time. Because nothing will hijack my train of thought,

Wes Woodhouse: well, it’s because our minds create urgency.

Joy Hunt: ~~Mm-hmm.~~

Wes Woodhouse: There’s a notification or an email or a message, whatever it is. [00:11:00] A now-open task that in your mind you have to then go back and close by reading the message, or seeing the status update, that you’re getting the push notification for or whatever it is. When you have all these open loops in your mind, that brings a level of anxiety because your brain has a difficulty prioritizing the, big necessary things with the not necessary

Joy Hunt: ~~Mm-hmm.~~

Wes Woodhouse: And we’ve all done this. Food and water are necessary to keep us alive. But how many times have we been so engrossed in a project or whatever? Often at the sacrifice of eating and drinking and taking care of yourself at a fundamental, keep yourself alive type of level.

I mean, the only reason we’re still breathing is because It’s a passive,

Joy Hunt: ~~Mm-hmm.~~

Wes Woodhouse: Uh, involuntary function. But. Yeah. Get rid of those notifications because then you’re not even making those open loops in your mind. And [00:12:00] so, like you said, preserve that mental space, if you will. Then the plate won’t continue to get stacked higher and higher, because of the absence of notifications.

The Notification Challenge: Protecting Your Attention [00:12:05]

Joy Hunt: Yeah,

Wes Woodhouse: Trust me, you don’t need 90% of the notifications that you get.

Joy Hunt: I’d say most,

Wes Woodhouse: I would say. I would challenge whoever’s listening, and I do the same thing. I have almost no notifications. And the only time my cell phone vibrates, like physically notifies me, is when I’m getting a phone call.

Joy Hunt: ~~mm-hmm.~~

Wes Woodhouse: Set yourself a timeline. Whether it’s a week, two weeks, or a month. Whatever it is. Even two days. Kill as many push notifications as you can handle. Leave only a few. You know, text messages. Probably leave that and then, you know, maybe one or two other sources. But social media, kill it.

Joy Hunt: Oh yeah.

Wes Woodhouse: If you get an email, then they don’t really need to get ahold of you on a timeline.

Joy Hunt: ~~Mm-hmm.~~

Wes Woodhouse: Anytime a notification pops up that you’re like, I never wanna see this again, just, immediately tell the app in whatever OS you have, Apple or Android as [00:13:00] applicable, never show you that again. You can always add it back.

Joy Hunt: Right.

Wes Woodhouse: It’s not a one way road. Just see how it goes for, I would say, minimum of a week. Probably a month to get a really good handle on how it can affect your life.

But that would be my challenge to anybody listening, is to do an experiment and just see how it goes.

Surviving Without Constant Connection [00:13:18]

Joy Hunt: The reality is that we all survived before we had phones. Some of us can’t even remember what that was like. Even for those that are too young to remember what that was like, humans lived, and they didn’t know if there was an emergency, what if there was. Well, the reality is that people had emergencies before there were even phones on the wall,

Wes Woodhouse: ~~Mm-hmm.~~

Joy Hunt: You know?

Wes Woodhouse: A runner.

Joy Hunt: And so, you know, you’re gonna be okay. Some of it’s just a matter of systematically changing settings. And then you don’t even have to think about it anymore. As you were describing how our brain is doing those open loops, what came to mind is if you’ve ever had an old computer [00:14:00] and you had way too many apps open and way too many browser tabs open, and your computer would slow down and start to lag and start to freeze, that’s what we’re doing.

Not just to our mind, but that’s what we’re doing to our spirit too.

Wes Woodhouse: That’s a very good way to put it.

Joy Hunt: We’re trying to have too many things cooking on the stove at the same time.

Wes Woodhouse: Yep.

Joy Hunt: And this one’s boiling over, but I’m supposed to focus on this one over here. And it’s not,

Wes Woodhouse: ~~Mm-hmm.~~

Joy Hunt: happening. And none of it’s functioning the way it should be. If you just close everything down and reboot, you’ll probably have

Wes Woodhouse: Yeah.

Joy Hunt: a better day.

Wes Woodhouse: Right.

Joy Hunt: yeah.

Wes Woodhouse: That’s exactly right.

Fighter Pilot Focus: Lessons from the Cockpit [00:14:28]

Joy Hunt: Yeah. so then in your experience as a fighter pilot, obviously lots of high-stress situations and needing to maintain focus there. What specific techniques have you developed to keep your focus during high- stress situations, and how might those apply to our everyday spiritual disciplines and our spiritual life?

Wes Woodhouse: I think to answer your question in the cockpit, it’s [00:15:00] actually, I would say significantly easier to maintain high focus in that situation. I think there’s a couple reasons. The primary one being, again, going back to setting up the environment. There is no ability for the excess of distractions.

Joy Hunt: Hmm.

Wes Woodhouse: Up there in the cockpit, I don’t have a computer open with access to the internet and a phone.

Joy Hunt: Hmm.

Wes Woodhouse: I don’t have my cell phone out that’s ringing and dinging ’cause I don’t have my cell phone with me.

Joy Hunt: ~~Mm-hmm.~~

Wes Woodhouse: And so there’s no unconscious, you know, go in my pocket and just, you know, check the web.

Joy Hunt: Right.

Wes Woodhouse: There’s no particular reason to check the time. There’s not anybody just casually walking by to say hi or to ask a question or whatever else.

So the environment itself is very sanitized from distractions. That’s not to say there aren’t distractions, though. 99% of distractions disappear just by the nature of that environment. [00:16:00] And so it’s very easy to just be focused one hundred percent on the task at hand. It’s also, relatively physically demanding depending on what specifically we’re doing. And then, also there’s the thought of, Hey, if I screw something up, then, that’s it. I’m crashing the airplane. Somebody’s getting hurt. And so you have the very underlying gravity, I guess, of the, no pun intended, of the, uh, of, of the scenario at hand and how it can go if things go wrong.

The Instrument Crosscheck: Developing Structured Attention [00:16:31]

Wes Woodhouse: And so very hyper aware of, staying focused and everything. Plus, there is a lot of training. I mean, all of the pilot training that we did it was very much focused on the instrument crosscheck. You look outside. Then you check your instruments, and then you check the map, or whatever data card, or what you’re doing. Maybe you check your wingman and then outside, then instruments. There’s [00:17:00] varying forms of the instrument crosscheck, dependent on what flight you’re in and what specifically is going on. That way you’re training your mind to just constantly be going in this same loop, cross-checking.

And so none of the data, in theory, all of that data that you have is gonna be relatively new. None of it’s gonna be particularly stale, as far as am I on air speed? Am I at the right altitude? At the right place at the right time? Am I doing the right task? All those types of things. How to apply that to other high-stress situations. I think in many high-stress situations, that is generally the case too. So many of the distractions are taken away. As far as public speaking, if you’re up in front of an audience, then if you do have your phone in your pocket, you’ve probably put it on silent. You’re not gonna just be mid-speech, casually taking it out to check the time or whatever.

Crisis Mode and Forced Focus [00:17:56]

Wes Woodhouse: Notifications. [00:18:00] You’ve got an audience who in theory is spending their attention on you. And so you want to then spend your attention on them by giving them the best presentation as possible, despite it being a high stress scenario. public speaking is a big one. being on a, down to the wire, studying for a test or whatever else it is.

A lot of times, we all know that when you procrastinate, all of a sudden you just. have to at the 11th hour kick it into gear to get it done. So many times, we amaze ourselves with how much we can get done. And that’s because it’s the desperation. Again, the gravity of the situation kind of kicks

Joy Hunt: we’ve created a crisis

Wes Woodhouse: you

Joy Hunt: and we kick our crisis brain in, right?

Wes Woodhouse: Yes. Exactly. And so you start actually kicking out distractions. You find a quiet place where, you know, nobody’s gonna

Joy Hunt: ~~Mm-hmm.~~

Wes Woodhouse: and strike up a conversation. You know, you put your phone on silent or whatever. You close all your browser tabs. The other big thing I’ve learned is that flying aircraft in the Air Force has lent itself to many areas of my life. One is [00:19:00] this concept called chair flying.,

Chair Flying: The Power of Mental Rehearsal [00:19:03]

Wes Woodhouse: the Thunderbirds, the air demonstration team for the Air Force. they chair fly their mission, before every single air show. And what does chair flying mean? It means in a briefing room, sitting in a chair, you can close your eyes or not, but you are mentally rehearsing and flying through every single step of the mission. and we would do that for pilot training. we would chair fly through, okay, before takeoff, when I get clear for takeoff, I’m gonna do this, and then I’m gonna flip this switch, and then I’m gonna say this on the radio and I’m gonna do this and that and the other thing.

So that when you’re in the real situation and that queue happens of being cleared for takeoff, now, you know, you can go back to what you’ve mentally rehearsed. Execute and expect to execute with a lot more success, a lot more repetitive success than if you hadn’t done that mental rehearsal of the task that’s coming [00:20:00] up.

Pre-Making Decisions for Better Focus [00:20:00]

Wes Woodhouse: it’s also a way of pre making decisions so that when those conditions, you identify, okay, if these conditions happen, say I have an engine light that’s saying my right engine is having, an oil pressure issue or something. Then you pre-make the decision of what you’re gonna do next. You’re gonna stop whatever maneuvering, make sure that you’re not pointed at the ground for any reason. Aviate, navigate, and communicate is what we always say in the aviation world. First, fly the airplane. Make sure that you’re not gonna hit the ground. You’re not gonna hit anybody else. And you’re going in the right direction.

Navigate, make sure you are going in the right direction, point to the nearest field if applicable and then communicate. Hey, tell everybody, hey, this is going on. I may need some assistance here, or whatever it is. And then you go through, okay, then I’m gonna take out my checklist and I’m gonna find the applicable engine checklist, and then go down there.

Applying Chair Flying to Everyday Life [00:20:45]

Wes Woodhouse: And how does that equate to normal life? Well, it’s most applicable, I would say, to when you’re preparing to go on a trip. [00:21:00] When you’re going to bed and you’ve got a particularly early morning the next morning, and you have to get up, you have to get dressed. You have to make sure that you don’t forget whatever piece of paper that you have to take.

All these kind of steps have to happen. And you’re laying in bed and you’re kind of just mentally rehearsing. Okay, I’m gonna get up at five. Then I’m gonna, immediately, I’ll go to the bathroom, I’ll get changed, I’ll go downstairs. Maybe you’ve thought ahead and already decided what your breakfast is gonna be so that you waste zero seconds on trying to figure out what to eat for breakfast because you’ve already mentally pre-made that decision. So you walk downstairs. Your breakfast is either already prepared or already decided on and then you just go from there, and you can see how that kind of sets you up for success. And it even enables it.

It equips you such that when something happens that was not in the plan, you’ve already had a solid starting place. You can then take care of whatever crisis it is and then revert and get back [00:22:00] onto the plan as soon as possible. And then if you can’t get exactly onto the plan, you at least know or have a better idea of what is this gonna affect down the road?

And how do I need to modify my plan or whatever it is in order to be successful. So those are the kind of two big things I would say that are applicable from the things that I’ve learned high stress situation wise, in the cockpit to everyday life.

And it does apply across the board. And I would recommend that everybody gives it a shot. We’ve all done it

Specific Actions Beat Vague Intentions [00:22:32]

Joy Hunt: right. Yeah. what came to mind just now is, so I lead a couple of coaching groups, financial coaching groups, and essentially, you know, when we meet, we’re sharing our wins and sharing bumps along the road, that kind of a thing. I will hear somebody say like, I just need to do better at X, Y, Z, and we always go back to, well, you can’t just tell yourself to do better.

So what are you gonna specifically do either to prepare or what are you gonna do? What are you going to pre decide if this situation comes up? You know, [00:23:00] my simple thing with somebody’s trying to eat out less and there’s no food in the house. So they order DoorDash five days in a row.

Well, next time I have to do that, I’m gonna order groceries right after my DoorDash. Literal conversation that we had last week. you know, some of it is, okay, well what do I need to have in the house? And some of it is, what do I just have as a next action if this thing comes up?

Because just telling yourself. Just get up earlier. That doesn’t just miraculously happen, unless you have insomnia, right? Like, and that’s a different problem. you know, then you, there’s things you have to put in place to cause that to happen if that’s what you wanna have happen.

Planning with Purpose: Using Tools to Manage Attention [00:23:39]

Wes Woodhouse: ~~Mm-hmm.~~

Joy Hunt: and then the other thing that came to mind too is, and I’m a full focus planner user, so I’ve been planning out my day and planning out my week. Michael Hyatt. Michael Hyatt, yeah. so planning out my day for now for probably seven years I’ve been using

Wes Woodhouse: yeah.

Joy Hunt: this particular planner, but it doesn’t have to be this one, right?

the process of [00:24:00] thinking through what’s happening either tomorrow or if I’m doing it in the morning, then what’s happening later today. and today was actually kind of a funny example of this, of I didn’t really know what was happening.

Wes Woodhouse: right.

Joy Hunt: and I had jury duty.

Wes Woodhouse: Yeah.

Joy Hunt: And didn’t wanna cancel all the appointments. ’cause I don’t know how long, how long I’ll have to stay or not. I could be done at 10:00 AM. So I had to say mentally, okay, I put everything on the calendar. But also, I let everybody know at this time I’m gonna check where things are at, and if I’m still here, I’m gonna cancel the next call.

Wes Woodhouse: ~~Mm-hmm.~~

Joy Hunt: Which is what ended up. You know, how my day ended up playing out. But I had to go into it with this plan, so that I’m not just spinning in circles when I get called into the courtroom about all this stuff I had going on this afternoon? What am I gonna do?

The Power of Detailed Planning for Future Focus [00:24:49]

Wes Woodhouse: ~~Mm-hmm.~~

Joy Hunt: and.

Wes Woodhouse: brought up a good point that I hadn’t, specifically thought about it in this way, the more, you put up front and the more specific and detailed that attention is, [00:25:00] then that begets more specific and useful, attention in the future where, you know, like your example.

Okay, next time I have to order DoorDash, then I. Be specific. I’m immediately going to plan out some meals and order a grocery pickup or delivery to follow that up so that I then am fixing the situation instead of continually chastising myself for not doing what I wanted to do.

But if you hadn’t been very detailed and specific on what your follow on action is going to be, then you kind of just continue in that place and you never achieve the level of detail or whatever it is in the future.

Breaking the Shame Cycle to Improve Focus [00:25:38]

Joy Hunt: And shame is gonna rob your focus too. If you’re just beating yourself up over whatever, how you handled the parenting situation, or how you handled the financial decision, or how you didn’t get up and work out like you thought you were gonna do, but you don’t address the root cause of it. You just keep going through this cycle of [00:26:00] shame that’s gonna steal your joy, it’s gonna steal your focus, it’s gonna make you grouchy sometime.

Wes Woodhouse: Yeah. it seals your attention. It pops up as a persistent distraction

Joy Hunt: ~~Mm-hmm.~~

Wes Woodhouse: that won’t go away.

Routines: Creating Space for Attention Through Structure [00:26:13]

Joy Hunt: Yeah. The other thing that, to circle back a little bit to the cockpit that I was thinking as you were, as you were sharing, was this idea of having routines and some checklists that you build into your life too.

Wes Woodhouse: ~~Mm-hmm.~~

Joy Hunt: Some people feel like routine stunts, creativity, and I feel like it’s the opposite.

It creates more space for you to be creative or creates more space for you to be able to react to a situation. so you had your, four places that you’re looking, I forget what you called it. right, the crosscheck. Right. And it’s where, this is the order that we’re doing this.

Some of us have a morning routine or workday startup routine, and it may not always go exactly how you think it’s gonna go. But if it gets interrupted, that’s a kind of a touch point that you can go back to, okay, wait, this is the next thing I was gonna do. and also [00:27:00] allows you to put more focus on whatever the thing is that actually means your focus.

When you’re doing that crosscheck, you’re not having to think about the crosscheck, it’s automatic.

Wes Woodhouse: ~~Mm-hmm.~~

Joy Hunt: You’re thinking about what you’re actually seeing.

Wes Woodhouse: Right?

Joy Hunt: and being able to act because you’re not having to think, okay, now when you first learned to drive your car, right? Okay, now I’m gonna check my mirrors.

Now I’m gonna look over my shoulder. Right. and hopefully if you’ve been driving for a while, that’s not something that you’re still thinking, oh, check your mirrors. You just do it.

Wes Woodhouse: You just do it to gain that detail, the detail of your environment

Conclusion: Join Us Next Time [00:27:40]

Joy Hunt: Thank you for joining us for this first part of my conversation with Wes Woodhouse about the attention gap and how fighter pilot focused techniques can transform our spiritual lives. In our next episode, we’ll continue this fascinating discussion as we dive into practical ways to create spiritual disciplines in a distracted world.

We’ll explore how pastors and ministry leaders can foster environments that support deep focus. How to [00:28:00] help our congregations develop better attention habits and how to build communities that value presence over a distraction. It’s packed with actionable insights you won’t wanna miss. Be sure to subscribe so you don’t miss part two of my conversation with Wes coming in two weeks.

Thank you for listening to today’s show. I’d love to know what you think about it. You can leave a comment on the show notes at pastorsandmoney.com/podcast, or email me at joy@pastorsandmoney.com. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe, share, and leave a review. This helps us to get the word out and invite more people into these conversations.

If you’d like to connect, you can find me on Instagram or Facebook. @PastorsandMoney. I can’t wait to talk again [00:29:00] soon.