In a world where women's voices are marginalized, join Liz Cooledge Jenkins as she challenges patriarchal structures in evangelicalism and empowers women to reclaim their humanity. But will she be able to make a difference in a system resistant to change? Discover the shocking truth in this gripping journey of faith and advocacy.

In this episode of the A World of Difference podcast, you'll join host Lori Adams-Brown as she chats with guest Liz Cooledge Jenkins about reclaiming women's humanity from evangelicalism. Liz shares her own experiences and insights, drawing from her background as a writer, preacher, and former college campus minister. The conversation explores the impact of patriarchal structures within the church and the importance of speaking out against gender inequality. Liz's book, Nice Churchy Patriarchy, is praised for its compelling title and narrative approach, making it a valuable resource for anyone seeking to challenge patriarchal norms in evangelicalism. Through personal narratives and thought-provoking discussions, this episode empowers individuals to reclaim their humanity and advocate for gender equality in religious communities. So grab your headphones and get ready to dive into this inspiring conversation on A World of Difference.

My special guest is

Liz Coolidge Jenkins is not your typical preacher and writer. With a BS in Symbolic Systems from Stanford and a Master of Divinity, Liz brings a unique blend of intellect and spirituality to her work. She is passionate about challenging patriarchal norms within evangelicalism and advocating for gender equality in religious communities. Through her writing, Liz fearlessly delves into the complex issues surrounding women's rights and roles in the church. Her book, "Nice Churchy Patriarchy: Reclaiming Women's Humanity from Evangelicalism," is a powerful exploration of her own journey and experiences within the evangelical world. With a mix of personal narrative and insightful analysis, Liz offers a fresh perspective on how we can create faith communities that are inclusive, just, and life-giving for everyone. Prepare to be inspired and empowered as Liz Cooledge Jenkins invites you to join her in reclaiming women's humanity and transforming the religious landscape.

Even if progress has been made, there's still work to do. We deserve full equality and we won't settle for anything less. - Liz Cooledge Jenkins

Amplifying Women's Voices

The importance of amplifying women's voices is a primary factor in challenging and shifting age-old patriarchal structures, particularly within evangelical contexts. Women's experiences, insights, and perspectives can bring a fresh understanding and significant contributions to religious and societal discourses. Actively seeking and valuing women's voices is a crucial step towards attaining gender equality and smashing restrictive norms.

The resources mentioned in this episode are:

• Visit www.BetterHelp.com/difference today to receive 10% off your first month of therapy.
• Explore the different classes and lessons available on BetterHelp.com, such as trauma, EMDR, and losing a pet.
• Sign up for therapy on www.BetterHelp.com/difference, and easily switch therapists if the first one isn't a good fit.
• Check out Liz Cooledge Jenkins' new book, Nice Churchy Patriarchy: Reclaiming Women's Humanity from Evangelicalism.
• Read Liz Cooledge Jenkins' writings on Patheos at Always Reforming and on her personal blog at lizcooledgejenkins.com
• Follow Liz Cooledge Jenkins on Feminism and Religion for her regular contributions. She has a Substack newsletter at: Growing Into Kinship.
• Listen to more episodes of the A World of Difference podcast for inspiring stories and interviews with guests who are making a difference.
• Consider incorporating more narrative storytelling into your own writing and communication to engage and connect with others.
• Reflect on your own experiences with gender and faith and consider how they have shaped your perspective.
• Encourage women to define what is best for themselves and to reject patronizing attitudes that limit their potential.

In this episode, you will be able to:

Challenging Patriarchal Power Structures

Patriarchal power structures are deeply ingrained, not only in religious communities but also in broader society. They can perpetuate gender inequality and hinder progress towards a just and inclusive world. Challenging these structures requires courage, collective action, and mindful efforts to uplift marginalized voices, fostering a shift toward equality and fairness.

The key moments in this episode are:

00:00:02 - Introduction and Sponsorship

00:02:00 - Introduction of Liz Cooledge Jenkins

00:05:06 - Writing Style and Personal Narrative

00:07:48 - Dave's Comment on Women in Ministry

00:10:49 - Reflection on College Experience

00:15:20 - Neutrality and its Impact on Women in the Church

00:16:40 - The Threat of Speaking Up

00:18:22 - Marginalizing Voices of Change

00:19:59 - The Importance of Advocacy

00:21:54 - The Impact of the Barbie Movie on Gender Equality

00:30:47 - Rethinking Leadership and Gender

00:33:23 - Navigating Challenges in Evangelical Spaces

00:36:25 - Dealing with Silencing and Marginalization

00:37:58 - Reflecting on Experiences and Finding Empowerment

00:41:24 - Calls to Action for Male Pastors

00:47:14 - The Importance of Women's Perspectives

00:47:57 - Liz's Experience in Seminary

00:48:47 - Book Recommendation: "Nice. Churchy Patriarchy"

00:49:11 - Difference Maker Community and Deeper Conversations

Uncovering hidden stories

Hidden stories are powerful narratives often overlooked or suppressed due to their challenging nature towards established norms. In the context of evangelicalism, these stories often stem from marginalized voices speaking up against patriarchal power structures. These narratives play a crucial role in fostering empathy, broadening perspective, and ultimately empowering individuals who may be experiencing similar struggles.

Timestamped summary of this episode:

00:00:02 - Introduction and Sponsorship

Lori introduces the podcast and the sponsor, BetterHelp.com, which offers therapy services. She shares her positive experience with therapy and encourages listeners to take advantage of the 10% off offer.

00:02:00 - Introduction of Liz Cooledge Jenkins

Lori introduces Liz Cooledge Jenkins as a writer, preacher, and former college campus minister. She mentions Liz's educational background and her writing contributions to various publications. Lori also mentions Liz's new book, "Nice Churchy Patriarchy."

00:05:06 - Writing Style and Personal Narrative

Lori discusses how Liz chose to incorporate personal narratives into her book and why she believes stories are powerful. They also touch on the challenge of making academic writing accessible to a broader audience.

00:07:48 - Dave's Comment on Women in Ministry

Liz shares an experience from her college years when a church member named Dave made a patronizing comment about women in ministry. She reflects on how it made her feel and the importance of women defining what is best for themselves.

00:10:49 - Reflection on College Experience

Lori asks Liz how she felt during that jarring experience as a college student and what she would say to her younger self. Liz expresses her shock and the lack of words to respond at the time, but affirms that her feelings were valid.

00:15:20 - Neutrality and its Impact on Women in the Church

The discussion begins with the question of neutrality and its implications. The guest shares her experience in a patriarchal church and how it made it difficult for any change to occur. Speaking up for gender equality was often seen as causing trouble.

00:16:40 - The Threat of Speaking Up

The conversation delves into the fear that speaking up against the system poses for those in power. Drawing parallels to the Civil Rights Movement, the guest emphasizes the importance of raising questions and advocating for change, even if it disrupts the status quo.

00:18:22 - Marginalizing Voices of Change

The guest recounts the experience of a woman in her church who faced labeling and marginalization for pushing for gender equality. Many voices that advocate for change are squashed and silenced. It highlights the significance of those who can speak out about their experiences.

00:19:59 - The Importance of Advocacy

The conversation addresses the misconception that women should be content with their relatively better situation compared to others. The guest emphasizes the need for equality and justice, and how it is essential to dream and work towards a better world for women.

00:21:54 - The Impact of the Barbie Movie on Gender Equality

The guest reflects on the Barbie movie and its impact on addressing patriarchy directly. The powerful speech by America Ferrera's character resonated with many, highlighting the impossible expectations and the need for women to be empowered to be their

00:30:47 - Rethinking Leadership and Gender

The conversation explores the socialization of women and the need to redefine what a leader looks like in terms of gender and style. It emphasizes the importance of considering women's ambitions and assertiveness positively and reexamining assumptions about leadership and gender roles.

00:33:23 - Navigating Challenges in Evangelical Spaces

The discussion delves into the challenges faced by women in evangelical spaces and the difficulty of speaking up for equality. It suggests embracing agency, having conversations about experiences, and being open to the possibility of leaving if necessary to find spaces where women's gifts are valued.

00:36:25 - Dealing with Silencing and Marginalization

The conversation acknowledges the silencing and marginalization experienced by women who advocate for equality. It encourages women to find communities that take them seriously and honor their value. It reassures them that leaving an unsupportive environment is not walking away from faith and that God is present in the journey of change.

00:37:58 - Reflecting on Experiences and Finding Empowerment

Reflection on difficult experiences, even when women are aware that others have it worse, is deemed important. It highlights the value of processing and not being afraid to take seriously the things that feel wrong. Exploring resources from different thinkers and finding empowering expressions of faith is also recommended.

00:41:24 - Calls to Action for Male Pastors

Male pastors are urged to seek feedback from women in their congregations and

00:47:14 - The Importance of Women's Perspectives

The speaker acknowledges that exposure to new communities can sometimes stifle curiosity, especially in faith communities. She highlights the importance of women's perspectives, even those that contradict dominant viewpoints, in order to create a more equitable and wonderful world.

00:47:57 - Liz's Experience in Seminary

The speaker mentions Liz's book and her journey of trying to find her voice as a woman in seminary classes that were not always supportive. She emphasizes the need for women's opinions in churches, classrooms, and society at large.

00:48:47 - Book Recommendation: "Nice. Churchy Patriarchy"

The speaker recommends Liz's book, "Nice. Churchy Patriarchy: Reclaiming Women's Humanity from Evangelicalism," and encourages listeners to read it for themselves. The book delves into issues of patriarchy and the importance of women's perspectives.

00:49:11 - Difference Maker Community and Deeper Conversations

The speaker invites listeners to join the Difference Maker community and announces that Liz will be a part of exclusive conversations there. The community offers additional content and a platform for deeper discussions on the topics addressed in the podcast.

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