Discover the shocking truth about toxic work environments and the defense mechanism that keeps us blind to the abuse. Join host Lori Adams-Brown as she interviews whistleblower Amy Fritz, who exposes the dark underbelly of a faith-based organization, leaving you questioning who you can trust and what lies beneath the surface of your own workplace.

In this episode, you will be able to:

• Discover the need for addressing unhealthy work conditions prevalent in faith-driven spaces.
• Grasp how turning a blind eye to betrayal contributes to toxic workplaces.
• Unearth the complex process of reconciling faith with the practices of Christian authorities and groups.
• Recognize the extensive impact of harmful work conditions on employees and their families.
• Know the vital role of opposing maltreatment and backing individuals on their journey of faith.

My special guest is Amy Fritz

Meet Amy Fritz: a champion for people who have found themselves wrapped up in toxic work environments and a tireless advocate for the exposure of complicated coping mechanisms like betrayal blindness. Drawing from her personal journey and deeply-rooted faith, Amy has turned the lessons from her experiences into a brave and confronting podcast, “Untangled Faith”. Here, she illuminates the pervasive issues often hidden in the background of workplaces, offering understanding, solidarity and hope to those battling similar demons. Amy personifies the transformative power of speaking out, keeping her faith at the heart of all she does.

The resources mentioned in this episode are:

• Check out Amy Fritz's podcast, Untangled Faith, for community, encouragement, and anti-gaslighting support for those who have had difficult experiences with toxic work environments and churches.
• Attend Podcast Movement in Denver in August to meet both Amy Fritz and Lori Adams-Brown, and connect with other podcast hosts and industry professionals.
• Read Jennifer Fried's book, Blind to Betrayal, to gain a deeper understanding of betrayal blindness and its impact on individuals in toxic environments.
• Explore the concept of Darvo (deny, attack, reverse victim and offender) coined by the same person who introduced the term betrayal blindness. This can help shed light on manipulative tactics used in toxic environments.
• Reflect on the potential costs of staying in a toxic work environment or church, such as the loss of income, community, and relationships. Consider seeking professional guidance or support in making difficult decisions.
• Take steps to recognize betrayal blindness

Betrayal blindness can prevent us from recognizing toxic work environments and the harm they can cause. - Amy Fritz

The key moments in this episode are:

00:00:02 - Introduction,

00:01:19 - Amy's Background and Podcast,

00:07:46 - Betrayal Blindness,

00:12:36 - Impact on Relationships and Community,

00:14:57 - Amy's Experience with Ramsey Solutions,

00:16:49 - Volunteering Information and Admin Duties,

00:18:35 - Gossip and Negative Feedback,

00:20:00 - Toxic Culture and Cover-ups,

00:22:25 - Resignation and Lies,

00:27:06 - Image Management and Abuse,

00:32:56 - Dave's Endorsement of Timeshare Exit Team,

00:35:29 - Untangling Faith and Trust in Institutions,

00:37:47 - Permission to Question and Leave Institutions,

00:39:42 - Navigating Toxicity in Faith Institutions,

00:42:24 - Amy's Contact Information,

Seeing hard things requires making difficult decisions and facing the high costs that come with it. - Amy Fritz

Timestamped summary of this episode:

00:00:02 - Introduction,

This episode features guest Amy Fritz, host of the Untangled Faith Podcast. Amy shares her experience of being married to someone who worked in a toxic work environment and how it led her to start her own podcast. She discusses the concept of betrayal blindness and the challenges of speaking out against abuse and toxic environments.

00:01:19 - Amy's Background and Podcast,

Amy talks about her podcast, Untangled Faith, which provides a community for those who have had difficult experiences with their faith. She shares her own journey of disillusionment with the church and the impact of toxic pastors and plagiarism in sermons. Amy emphasizes her passion for speaking out against unhealthy practices in faith-based spaces.

00:07:46 - Betrayal Blindness,

Amy explains the concept of betrayal blindness and how it can prevent individuals from recognizing toxic situations. She shares her own experience of betrayal blindness and the fear of losing income and community if she spoke out against her husband's toxic work environment. Amy expresses empathy for others in similar situations and acknowledges the complexity of making difficult decisions.

00:12:36 - Impact on Relationships and Community,

Amy discusses the impact of toxic work environments and faith organizations on relationships and communities. She highlights the loss of friendships and community that can occur when individuals choose to leave. Amy emphasizes the importance of considering the multiple factors tied to these environments, such as income, friendships, and mutual involvement.

00:14:57 - Amy's Experience with Ramsey Solutions,

Amy shares her experience

00:16:49 - Volunteering Information and Admin Duties,

The guest explains how she volunteered personal information and became an admin in a Facebook group for employees and spouses. She describes her role in planning events, meeting new people, and shutting down negative conversations about the company.

00:18:35 - Gossip and Negative Feedback,

The guest discusses how the company had a policy of firing employees for gossip and only allowing positive feedback. She shares examples of people being fired for raising concerns or posting negative comments on social media.

00:20:00 - Toxic Culture and Cover-ups,

The guest reveals a situation where a friend of hers was cheated on by a high-ranking company member. The company covered up the infidelity and continued to support the cheater, showing a toxic culture and double standards.

00:22:25 - Resignation and Lies,

The guest's husband resigns after expressing concerns about the unethical behavior within the company. The company lies to him and implies that his friend, who was cheated on, is not trustworthy. The guest highlights the lies and false narratives perpetuated by the company.

00:27:06 - Image Management and Abuse,

The guest discusses the toxic culture of image management within the company. She mentions the creation of a sexist trope of a "crazy wife" and how the company fired an employee for being pregnant while covering up infidelity by others. The guest exposes the lies and hypocrisy of the company's values.

00:32:56 - Dave's Endorsement of Timeshare Exit Team,

Dave endorsed Timeshare Exit Team on his show, claiming they could help people get out of their timeshares. However, it was revealed that the company took people's money without delivering results. Dave continued to endorse them as long as they paid for advertising, raising questions about his credibility and adherence to FTC rules.

00:35:29 - Untangling Faith and Trust in Institutions,

Amy acknowledges the disappointment and loss of trust that comes from uncovering toxic practices within faith institutions. She encourages listeners to hold institutions accountable and explore alternative communities that align with their values, while still recognizing the importance of being in community with fellow believers.

00:37:47 - Permission to Question and Leave Institutions,

Amy gives listeners permission to question institutional loyalty and to choose not to become a member of a church. She emphasizes the importance of finding community and learning theology in alternative settings, rather than adhering to traditional structures.

00:39:42 - Navigating Toxicity in Faith Institutions,

Amy acknowledges that faith institutions across different religions can become toxic and oppressive. She encourages individuals to find pastors and communities that accept their doubts and uncertainties, while still recognizing the love of Jesus.

00:42:24 - Amy's Contact Information,

Amy can be found online through her podcast, Untangled Faith, and her website. She welcomes further questions and engagement with her work, particularly for those who have experienced toxic workplace environments or want to learn more about whistleblowing

Empathy is crucial when understanding why individuals stay in toxic work environments due to the fear of losing not only income but also their community. - Amy Fritz

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