Join podcast host Lori Adams-Brown in this thrilling episode of A World of Difference as she uncovers the alarming events at the Southern Baptist Convention in New Orleans, discussing the controversy surrounding women pastors and the issue of abuse within the church. With personal experiences as a woman pastor in the Southern Baptist Convention and a victim of abuse, Lori candidly shares her reaction to what she witnessed. Be warned of potential triggering content. From discussing the use of NDAs to cover up abuse to the need to shift the basic ideas and theology behind the "umbrella authority" structure, this episode unpacks a range of issues affecting the church. With calls to action for listeners to support survivors, encourage whistleblowers and advocate for human rights, this podcast is a must-listen for those wanting to make a difference and bring about change. Let's set aside differences and come together to support survivors and create safer spaces for all.

Long Summary

In A World of Difference, Lori Adams-Brown addresses the Southern Baptist Convention and the difficult subject of abuse allegations and sexism within the church. As a survivor of abuse at the hands of Andy Wood, the successor to Rick Warren at Saddleback Church, Lori has a personal and emotional connection to the issue. She calls out specific men who she does not believe are effective allies and is disappointed by the treatment of women pastors. She invites everyone to join the conversation about making a difference, acknowledging the diversity of her audience. Guests including Dr. Kristen Kobaz Doumet and Dr. Diane Langberg suggest that the convention needs to take a systemic approach to combating abuse and sexism, including the need for women to be involved in diagnosing the problem. The speakers express their sadness regarding the devolution of the SBC from its core theology of the "priesthood of all believers" into limiting women's direct access to Jesus. The podcasts suggest that Echo and Saddleback Church bring in an organization specializing in investigating churches in the wake of abuse allegations to address abuse allegations at a mega church in Silicon Valley. The podcast encourages people to speak out, support survivors, and join the movement for positive change. The speaker emphasizes the need to find a better way to deal with a difficult situation and stop excusing, minimizing, and throwing hands up in the air. Listen to A World of Difference for a raw and powerful conversation about the struggles of making a difference in a male-centric denomination.

Timestamps

[00:00:02] Disturbing Aspects of the Southern Baptist Convention

[00:04:06] Controversy over women pastors in Southern Baptist Convention

[00:08:11] Grappling with Abuse and Women in the Church

[00:11:35] Abuse Cover-ups in Saddleback and Echo Church

[00:15:29] Challenges of Reporting Abuse in Christian Communities

[00:19:17] Supporting Trauma Survivors and Female Representation

[00:22:38] Questioning Use of Male Allies for Women

[00:26:33] Power Abuse in Religion

[00:30:15] Rick Warren's Damaging Leadership and Misogyny

[00:33:57] Addressing Sexism and Racism in the SBC

[00:37:38] Importance of Third-Party Investigation in Abuse Allegations

[00:41:30] Call to Ban NDAs and Remove Abuser in Southern Baptist Convention

[00:45:19] Empowering Listeners for Change

Episode Links

Lori on Hagar's Voice podcast

Lori on Bodies Behind the Bus podcast

Women in the Church series

Best Quotes

[00:10:12] Women don't need permission from any man, church, or denomination to use a gift that God has given them

[Unknown] The controversy around women pastors overshadowed and was used as a distraction to the very prominent issue that should have been front center, which is abuse

[Unknown] Using this fight for 'women pastors' has given a lot of limelight, has given a controversy and a stage and an opportunity to speak and make it look as though these men at Saddleback and at Echo Church are for women

Other Materials

Lori's latest Substack Newsletter: Trophy Pastors: How Women are Being Used as a Tool of Distraction From Abuse in the SBC

All Quotes

[00:14:21] In order to shift culture, though, it would just take so much. We're talking about power dynamics. We're talking patriarchal structures, theological interpretations that may or continue to enable abuse to occur

[00:09:33] A shout out to Robert Douwnen of the Houston chronicle who really broke a lot of this story a couple of years ago

[00:01:11] We've seen abuse survivors dismissed and minimized and really just an overall disappointing convention when it comes to abuse

[00:08:47] Within the SBC, there's many types of abuse that have taken place. Everything from sexual abuse of adults to sexual abuse of children, boys, and girls. And there's been all kinds of abuse of power that has taken place psychological abuse, spiritual abuse, emotional, verbal, financial, and even some labor abuse that we're starting to really begin to discuss

[00:06:57] Women pastors have very much been in the news. Women pastors have been discussed on Twitter. the Theobros

[00:04:18] And if you haven't, I don't know if I recommend that you watch it or not because it was pretty intense, but you've probably at least seen some of the news articles coming out about it

[00:09:19] But I think what's important is that we acknowledge and address the problem and understand the historical context

[00:13:58] I really don't understand why more people aren't talking about abuse prevention, advocating for survivors, human rights

[00:07:07] And all types of people along the spectrum of what This means theologically and sociologically, people have been saying all kinds of helpful things and some things that might be triggering to some of you who either are women pastors, believe women should be pastors or are still sort of confused or maybe some of you are just very adamantly against that, that that's not something you believe in

[Unknown] The controversy around women pastors overshadowed and was used as a distraction to the very prominent issue that should have been front center, which is abuse

[00:03:33] I believe that it takes so many perspectives to help us understand how we can come alongside abuse survivors, how we can come alongside women who've just experienced what so many of us have experienced where so much misogyny, so much discrimination, so much dismissing of women's voice or just the absence of them in a conversation about women by and large being led by mostly men

[00:16:42] And so when we're talking about shifting the culture, You would have to shift so many of the basic ideas that exist in some of the theology that has gone back for, you know, a couple last year

[Unknown] Using this fight for 'women pastors' has given a lot of limelight, has given a controversy and a stage and an opportunity to speak and make it look as though these men at Saddleback and at Echo Church are for women

[00:14:07] The individuals who have worked within the SBC aren't all linking arms to promote change on behalf of these who have been oppressed often by pastors or church leaders and denominational leaders

[00:10:12] Women don't need permission from any man, church, or denomination to use a gift that God has given them

[00:04:32] Please, if you are somebody who's experienced abuse, feel free to pause this podcast and take it in chunks, feel free to just stop it altogether and never ever listen again. or feel free to just tap, you know, stick your toe in this water and see how it feels

[00:00:43] If you have experienced abuse of any kind, Please listen or discretion advised

[00:02:36] Having experienced also abuse psychological abuse, emotional, verbal, spiritual, financial abuse at the hands of Andy Wood, who now has been the successor to Rick Warren at Saddleback Church

[00:13:10] Even the people saying they're against abuse and against cover up publicly on Twitter, sometimes they're a part of the cover-up, and it's all a lot of smoke and mirrors

[00:01:30] It's caused people, I know, personally, women in particular to just grieve and lament and say, what in the actual world is happening here?

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