Lots of people and businesses like to think that a brand, branding, and marketing are all the same thing. They are not. In this episode Chad and Paul talk about the differences in the three and the relationships they have with one another. It doesn’t take a ton of effort to put things in the right order. Not getting them in order results in some pretty bad marketing.

Click on the Transcript to see full Transcription:

Chad (00:00):

Hey, Paul. How you doing, man?

Paul (00:02):

Doing fantastic. How are you doing?

Chad (00:04):

I’m great. I’m great. What have we got going on today? What is our thinking?

Paul (00:07):

Well, I think that we’re going to talk more about branding, brands, marketing. Is it all the same? Is there any difference? Where does it all start?

Chad (00:17):

Yeah.

Paul (00:17):

How does it all fit in? All of that fun stuff. I

Chad (00:19):

Love it.

Paul (00:20):

Love it. All the things that keep businesses up at night, right?

Chad (00:22):

Sure, absolutely.

Paul (00:23):

Which is total crap.

Chad (00:24):

It is, yeah. Tell me about your thoughts on what a brand is.

Paul (00:29):

What a brand is. So everybody has a brand, a personal brand. Every business has a brand, which largely comes from the founders, the individuals. But the moment you have a spark of inspiration to start a business, whether you have a problem and you’re going to solve it for yourself, and then you do it for others, or you just see a pattern of problems and you’re going to be the solution to those for other people, everybody’s got that brand that starts from the spark, that first inspiration, it’s you. It’s who you are. Now, taking that and making that bigger than one person

Chad (01:12):

And

Paul (01:12):

Taking it out of maybe the garage

Chad (01:15):

Or

Paul (01:16):

The kitchen table, they all start there. But then once you’ve made that commitment to bring it out, then you start moving into the branding. Branding is that public domain.

Chad (01:31):

Okay, you’ve got your brand,

Paul (01:33):

Right?

Chad (01:34):

Let’s take someone who is passionate about coffee beans and they want to open up a coffee shop. So the day that they decide to do that, well, I’m going to open up a coffee shop. This is my dream. I’ve got a connection. And somewhere in South America,

Paul (01:48):

Hypothetically,

Chad (01:50):

That day, that dream is formed and it is implemented, and they have decided to do that, and they are starting to implement these new coffee beans. So that brand,

Paul (02:03):

At

Chad (02:03):

That point, essentially what you’re saying is formed.

Paul (02:07):

They don’t even have to have context and

Chad (02:10):

Coffee. All right? But I’m just, okay. But at that point, that brand

Paul (02:13):

Is

Chad (02:14):

Essentially formed.

Paul (02:15):

And so again, things like origin stories and things of that that have become cliche, that’s what that really is at the core, is

Chad (02:24):

Their story.

Paul (02:25):

I have an idea. I want to bring this idea out. That is when the brand starts and who you are and what you believe, that’s where the brand starts

Chad (02:37):

And what you stand for difference. Okay. So at what point does that brand that we’ve already established, when does that become branding? Because there are two obviously different things.

Paul (02:50):

So I see it as that your brand is your first. That origin with an individual or a small group of individuals is where the brand starts.

Chad (03:00):

And

Paul (03:00):

Then you bring that to a team as you go to form a business and bring it to the public. Once you make that transition from internal to the public, that’s when branding begins to become branding

Chad (03:16):

At that moment.

Paul (03:16):

At that

Chad (03:17):

Moment

Paul (03:17):

When you come to the public, because it’s a mixture of what you believe about yourself and what is perceived and experienced in the marketplace, that becomes shaping the branding of who you are. Now, there’s some technical sides of branding. Things like logos, fonts, colors, and all of that. That’s part of the technical side of branding. Bringing that idea to life and bringing it from an internal to a public state.

Chad (03:50):

Does

Paul (03:50):

That make sense?

Chad (03:51):

It does.

Paul (03:51):

Okay. So you’ve got that technical side of things, but a lot of it is once you bring that out and you start to actually perform services for your target audience, sell goods, or perform the service that you provide, then their perception and your execution becomes part of that branding as well.

Chad (04:10):

Okay. So let’s go back. We’ve already kind of define what the brand is. We talked kind of define what the branding, the moment that it becomes branding is taking it to the public,

Paul (04:22):

Right?

Chad (04:22):

Okay. So those two things are defined. So at what point in time is do you move into what is considered marketing? Marketing? So you’ve got branding, marketing, so you’ve got the branding, which we’ve already established is once you take it to the public, when does that move over into the realm of marketing?

Paul (04:45):

So marketing is another transition from internal to public as well. So you’re, you are creating assets to make promises to the public about what you’re offering, the goods or services that you’re offering.

Chad (05:00):

Okay. So let me ask you this. So at what point in that endeavor do you have to get definitive on who your target audience is

Paul (05:11):

As quickly as possible? As quickly as possible? So the way I see that is, and you and I have talked about this a lot over the years, is so there is a target profile for every good or service that you offer if you’re offering a good or service, and there are optimal ones and less optimal ones. So target profile is really who is going to be the highest profitable groups of people that need your product. And that could be, and it’s not. So take real estate, for instance, it’s like one real estate firm may focus on people downsizing.

Chad (05:52):

Yes.

Paul (05:53):

Versus one real estate firm might focus on new families, new

Chad (05:57):

Buyers,

Paul (05:58):

Or that starter home, and then, well, we outgrew this.

Chad (06:02):

Right? Then you’ve got another target audience that could be people that are investors.

Paul (06:06):

Exactly.

Chad (06:06):

That are just buying something to invest in.

Paul (06:09):

So as you’re making that transition to marketing, finding that target profile is critical, because if you cannot speak to them properly and at the proper times, then you’re going to waste a ton of money. And the efforts that you put into bringing your brand to life and branding and bringing it into the realm of marketing is going to be very frustrating. It’s going to be less effective. Most don’t experience it as being less effective. They just experience the outcome of being, wow, that didn’t work. It

Chad (06:41):

Didn’t work well.

Paul (06:44):

But in answer to your question about that, identifying that target profile as critical, as early as possible.

Chad (06:51):

As early as possible. Yeah. I think one of the biggest confusions that people that have is that a logo color font is branding, and we’ve got to get that done. We get a website done, just get something out there. Right? And once you’ve done that, then you’ve really, you’ve done everything you need to do pretty much in the branding world of the product or service that you, but let’s talk about that a little bit more, because it’s such a, you have people that believe that

Paul (07:26):

In

Chad (07:27):

Their mind,

Paul (07:27):

A lot of people,

Chad (07:28):

But it’s much more robust. Am I correct?

Paul (07:32):

Yeah. If you’re just doing that checklist that you just laid out for us, I got a logo, I’ve got some fonts, I’ve got some colors, I’ve got a website,

Chad (07:39):

And

Paul (07:40):

You’re checking those boxes, then you’re looking at it from a very thin tactical perspective of this as branding rather than, it’s just remarkable to me how many people still have websites that they’ve checked the box and they’ve never gone back to look at, and it doesn’t articulate anything about who they are, why anybody should care. It’s literally just a box that they checked. We have a website

Chad (08:06):

Just to say that. Yeah, right. We’ve got it.

Paul (08:08):

Which in this day and age, I mean, that’s one of the most valuable assets that you actually own.

Chad (08:14):

Well, that’s the engine.

Paul (08:15):

Yeah.

Chad (08:15):

Right. Essentially big time. Yeah,

Paul (08:17):

Hundred percent. Because all of these other things, social media, we don’t own anything on those. We don’t own our profiles.

Chad (08:25):

Right.

Paul (08:26):

LinkedIn can shut you down in a heartbeat.

Chad (08:28):

So can Facebook,

Paul (08:29):

Every single one of ’em, they can change their terms

Chad (08:31):

Of

Paul (08:31):

Services,

Chad (08:32):

Algorithms, everything and everything. Yeah. If you had, okay, so lemme ask you this. If you were to, I got a question for you. So where do you think the biggest discrepancy is, or where do you think the biggest shortfall is from a business owner, an idea guy who’s got this brand, who’s bringing this brand to market? Where do you think the biggest pitfall lies from the moment that he or she decides that this is my idea, this is what I want to take to the public, and actually all the way through the end of that, through the actual marketing campaign itself. Where do you think the biggest pain points are for these individuals?

Paul (09:15):

So the biggest pain points or pitfalls, those can be very

Chad (09:19):

Different things. Well, I mean, it’s a pain point when it doesn’t work effectively,

Paul (09:23):

And that’s typically how it’s done. And most people, at least in my experience, and I could have a very odd experience, but in my experience with this is that most people are, their pain points are that didn’t work, but they never really took the time to have a strategy for their brand, have a strategy for their marketing, and tie it all together to be measurable and within the cycle of business and the cycle of a customer’s buying cycle.

Chad (09:54):

Sure. So what you’re saying is essentially you’re saying that they put something together, they craft this message, and they just kind of throw some stuff on the wall?

Paul (10:03):

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean, I could see the started of a business saying, okay, well what do I need to do? Well, I need to form an LLC, I get an attorney, I get an accountant. I’m going to get a logo, I’m going to get a website, and now I’m just going to go off and do it.

Chad (10:20):

Yes.

Paul (10:24):

In my opinion, that’s one of the reasons that so many startups, so many small businesses fail. They

Chad (10:28):

Fail. Yeah. So when I say pain point, I mean obviously it becomes a pain point when it doesn’t work.

Paul (10:34):

Exactly

Chad (10:34):

Right. So if you were to give someone some advice and say, okay, well these are the pitfalls that you need to avoid. These are the things in that process,

Paul (10:45):

A

Chad (10:45):

Brand branding and marketing. If you could, I don’t know, maybe there’s five, maybe there’s 10, maybe there’s three. I don’t know.

Paul (10:52):

What

Chad (10:52):

Would they be?

Paul (10:53):

So the first thing I would say is to actually develop some written language about who you are and what you’re doing means it’s going to help force you to try to articulate a differentiation between your competitor. Because most, in any industry and market, you can go in and take 10 websites

Chad (11:16):

And

Paul (11:17):

Change a logo, change a few words, and they’re all the same. So there’s no differentiation.

Chad (11:22):

So when you say that, you’re talking about getting to the grassroots of the real reason you open this business or service, the reason why you do what you do, and you’re passionate, the reason why you’re passionate about this, right? Is that what you’re saying, essentially?

Paul (11:42):

Yeah, exactly. And what separates you and why anybody should care about you versus somebody else.

Chad (11:47):

Right. Okay.

Paul (11:47):

And so few people go through that process. It’s not easy. And when you’re based on conventional wisdom and you’re just going by a checklist and you say, well, I’ve already got my website and I’ve already got these tactical things done, but they’re not really saying anything. They’re chasing SEO, they’re chasing keywords and trying to game the system, which you just cannot do anymore. But that’s the first thing in answer to your question, that’s the first thing that needs to be done, is you have to be able to articulate. And the written word is so important in that because it becomes that, as I would call it, a brand manifesto, once you transition from yourself or a small group of founders into a team.

Chad (12:31):

And

Paul (12:32):

As that team grows, if you don’t have something to guide your employees and your team to say, this is the essence, this is what we are.

Chad (12:41):

So what you’re saying is, is that that manifesto somewhat becomes the

Paul (12:45):

Culture

Chad (12:46):

Of that workplace environment, the foundation of the culture, of that workplace

Paul (12:51):

Environment. Exactly. Because in the absence of that, then it’s just going to be, it’s

Chad (12:57):

Flying by the seat of your pants.

Paul (12:58):

Yeah. It’s personal preference.

Chad (12:59):

Sure.

Paul (13:00):

That’s the difference between somebody that’s put together that has policy and discipline

Chad (13:04):

Versus

Paul (13:05):

Everything that comes up. We’re just going to interpret it how we feel at that moment, what our personal preference is.

Chad (13:10):

And

Paul (13:10):

That’s just a dangerous, irresponsible

Chad (13:12):

Way approach. Okay. That’s a pitfall. Okay. What’s the second pitfall? Let’s say that someone has that, they’ve done the manifesto, they’ve laid all that out, they’ve talked about who they are, why they are and what they do. What’s the second biggest pitfall in your opinion?

Paul (13:25):

So it’s not connecting that with the visual parts of a brand. So we talked about these. What most people do is a tactical checklist. I’ve got a logo, I’ve got fonts and all that stuff. Taking that brand manifesto and using that to create the visual brand and the brand books and the brand guidelines,

Chad (13:44):

Make

Paul (13:44):

Sure that you provide one of the most important things that you can have in any aspect of life. And its consistency. So those are your anchors. Those are your

Chad (13:54):

Foundation. So when you say consistency, you’re saying consistent in everything that you do within that organization with your teams.

Paul (14:00):

Correct. How you express

Chad (14:02):

Who

Paul (14:02):

You are visually, verbally, in the written word, all of those things. Because that’s the buildup to marketing. It’s taking this to the public and saying, Hey, this is who we are. These are the promises that we’re making about our good or service. Because it is remarkable to me how still businesses skip so many steps, just go straight to making the promises. And then when people say, I’m going to take you up on that, when the consumer,

Chad (14:37):

The end consumer,

Paul (14:38):

They’re going to come

Chad (14:39):

In,

Paul (14:40):

They’re going to say, Hey, I’d love to know about this. I’d like you to fulfill, make good

Chad (14:45):

On this promise you made, I promise you made.

Paul (14:46):

And you’ve got employees that say, I have no idea what’re strong about.

Chad (14:50):

Right? That’s not good.

Paul (14:52):

Or they go in and the employee takes their personal preference and it’s completely different than what

Chad (15:00):

Was promised

Paul (15:01):

This marketing. I mean, that right there just blows me away that we have so many businesses that continue to do that,

Chad (15:13):

And they wonder why they fail,

Paul (15:15):

Yeah’s it, and they say, well, my branding and marketing failed or didn’t work.

Chad (15:21):

It’s like,

Paul (15:21):

No, it actually worked really, really well. But what they found

Chad (15:26):

When

Paul (15:26):

They came to take you up on that promise

Chad (15:29):

Was

Paul (15:30):

So drastically different

Chad (15:31):

Than what you promised.

Paul (15:32):

Yeah. Then that’s what your planning failed. Your lack of planning, your lack of strategy.

Chad (15:38):

So that’s a pitfall. So that’s pitfall two,

Paul (15:41):

Massive.

Chad (15:41):

So we get to pitfall two, all that is what we just discussed. Okay. What would be pitfall three as we move through this entire, through the marketing phase? Because obviously it goes past the marketing phase. You’ve got a good or service that someone purchases from you. At that point, in my mind, once they purchase that item from you, you’re kind of almost married in a way. You’ve asked them to metaphorically,

Paul (16:12):

You’ve

Chad (16:12):

Asked them to marry you at that point. A lot of businesses fail, I think after the sale as well.

Paul (16:21):

A hundred

Chad (16:21):

Percent. It’s like you’ve purchased it great, but they don’t court well. And in marriage, as we all know, the real courting begins after the IDOs. If you want to stay married

Paul (16:34):

Without a doubt,

Chad (16:35):

Relationships

Paul (16:37):

To maintain a relationship, it takes work.

Chad (16:40):

Oh, yeah. Oh, we could go on and on about, and we’re not marriage counselors, but certainly we all understand,

Paul (16:45):

But even in a customer relationship,

Chad (16:47):

It’s similar.

Paul (16:49):

So you’ve got this cycle that the customer’s going through, they’re just living their life. Something happens. So a situation kicks them into a need, and then they look at their options, then they make contact, or they make a decision, they make contact, and then they purchase, and then they kick right back into that cycle. So businesses that fail to nurture that relationship and recognize that we cannot change this buying cycle,

Chad (17:22):

It is what it is.

Paul (17:23):

Yeah.

Chad (17:24):

There’s

Paul (17:24):

Nothing we can do to change that. But knowing what that cycle looks like is where businesses that are really successful at it nurture that relationship and reaffirm the buying decision that they’ve made.

Chad (17:37):

So

Paul (17:39):

You’re absolutely

Chad (17:40):

Right. So it’s courting essentially in the end. Yeah. Okay. So we’ve got the second one. So what would be the third pitfall in your, because we’ve also got to get to a point where we take that message through marketing to the target audience that’s been defined. So is there a pitfall in there where somebody could go wrong in that marketing? Oh my gosh.

Paul (18:04):

Is there a pitfall in there?

Chad (18:05):

Well, I mean, I’m trying to point out how much

Paul (18:08):

Time do you have? Oh my goodness.

Chad (18:09):

We’ve got about another 15 minutes. I’m going to, well, 12 minutes. I’m going to allow you to, I’ll tell you what, I’m going to give you maybe five minutes to talk about that. I know that could go on forever.

Paul (18:20):

I mean, we’ll have, there’s so many pitfalls in that,

Chad (18:24):

But let’s just say this. Okay. There’s some pitfalls, the tremendous pitfalls in that and the marketing end of it, of taking that message to your target audience

Paul (18:33):

Through

Chad (18:33):

Various media.

Paul (18:35):

Absolutely.

Chad (18:35):

Alright. Then you have another one, which is after that person has purchased your good or service and not developing the, or courting them in a way that is effective and they end up either forgetting you or being turned off by you,

Paul (18:51):

Or both of which are bad, very

Chad (18:53):

Bad. Both are bad. And all of this encompasses that marketing.

Paul (18:59):

Okay. So I’ll talk about one thing from that standpoint of in marketing, here’s a major pitfall that I see is the right message at the wrong time. And so what I mean by that is, so until somebody has a need, they are just not going to pay attention to facts and figures because it’s not necessary at that time. But we will latch on to things like emotional messages that are conveyed to us

Chad (19:34):

Connections.

Paul (19:34):

So if I’m watching television and the air conditioning has gone out, well, lemme back up. So if the air conditioning goes out, I don’t go sit down at the TV to wait for a commercial to come on so I can write a number down. So anything, when you’re talking about television in this instance, or even digital delivery of videos

Chad (20:02):

In

Paul (20:02):

Some capacity,

Chad (20:02):

Sure.

Paul (20:05):

That type of information is the right message at the wrong time. Those details will matter later when I need them.

Chad (20:16):

But

Paul (20:16):

At that time, when I’m watching golf or I’m watching football, anything that’s in that message, in that video is a waste of real estate. That is a huge,

Chad (20:27):

You’re not in a buying mode.

Paul (20:29):

Exactly.

Chad (20:29):

Okay.

Paul (20:30):

But I am in a relationship.

Chad (20:32):

So what you’re saying is, is that creating the top of mind awareness through a connection type of a message to you at that moment as a potential customer on your couch watching sports or whatever, what you’re referring to here?

Paul (20:48):

Exactly. So what is top of mind? So if you need to move something, you need to move your house or move a piece of furniture, who are you going to call?

Chad (20:59):

I’m going to call a moving company,

Paul (21:03):

But most people are going to call their friends.

Chad (21:06):

Oh

Paul (21:06):

Yeah, that’s what I was looking

Chad (21:07):

For. I thought you were meaning, yeah, you’re going to call a friend.

Paul (21:10):

Yeah.

Chad (21:10):

Right. Sure.

Paul (21:11):

So in which of those friends you’re going to call first, you have the best relationship with.

Chad (21:17):

Sure. That’s probably going to be you in that moment.

Paul (21:19):

Exactly. And I ignore your call unless you’ve got a case of beer and pizza, then I might come over.

Chad (21:25):

Oh, I see now.

Paul (21:26):

Okay. Yeah, I might come over just planted some seeds, just so you know. But last time I moved you, I don’t think there was any of that involved.

Chad (21:34):

I think there was pizza, but that’s been probably 10,

Paul (21:37):

15 years

Chad (21:38):

Ago. Man. That’s true.

Paul (21:38):

From that townhouse to the one you’re in now

Chad (21:40):

In my home. Yeah.

Paul (21:41):

So equate that with a business, that’s what top of mind is. It is a relationship.

Chad (21:47):

So

Paul (21:48):

If we want to be top of mind where we’re delivering messages, we need to know what state that buyer is in their cycle so that we know how to craft that message and how to take our brand, express that at the right time with the right message.

Chad (22:05):

Yes. I’ve noticed in the HVAC industry over the years, that there’s pain points every year because these companies get much busier. It’s summer when it first starts to get hot, and it’s in the cold in the winter. When it starts to get really cold, that’s when the unit start to struggle. So I see where you’re going with this. And then the rest of the year is almost like top of mind awareness. Yeah,

Paul (22:29):

Exactly.

Chad (22:30):

Or a service type deal that they’ve got a contract where they come out and service it and things of that nature. Okay. So we’ve talked about the difference between brand branding and marketing, essentially. I

Paul (22:41):

Mean,

Chad (22:41):

We can, obviously, there’s a lot more that we can discuss in the realm of

Paul (22:46):

Marketing.

Chad (22:46):

I mean, that could go on. We could be here for another couple hours. We don’t have time today. And we talked about some of the pitfalls and what do you see? Do you see a lot of these lot of businesses trying to gold it alone a lot of times and trying to do this themselves? And would that be one of the reasons why they struggle so much and they may experience more of the pitfalls than someone who is actually using an expert?

Paul (23:15):

Yeah, I think so. I think there’s a lot of status quo, old conventional wisdom out there that people follow. It’s not hard to see. Legitimately, I cannot believe this blew my, I still cannot get over this. I was riding down the road the other day. I saw a billboard with a QR code on it.

Chad (23:36):

Wait, what?

Paul (23:37):

A billboard with a QR code on it.

Chad (23:39):

Well, how can I get

Paul (23:40):

Exactly.

Chad (23:41):

I mean, that’s a long way to get my phone.

Paul (23:44):

That’s like,

Chad (23:44):

What would be the reason that’s wasted

Paul (23:46):

Space? The only thing I can think of is that somebody thought that, Hey, again,

Chad (23:52):

Was it a spoof? Was it supposed to be funny or no?

Paul (23:55):

I just can’t see how it could be. But so that is somebody, the world, I only guess, I can only imagine that they win it alone. And they thought, Hey, this would be good. Versus having somebody say they saw something on QR codes, which QR codes can do some brilliant things.

Chad (24:14):

Sure.

Paul (24:14):

But not on a billboard.

Chad (24:16):

I mean, how far does your phone zoom? I mean, you made fun of my phone a lot. Oh, I did. I

Paul (24:21):

Get it. Oh my gosh. Chad, please, for the love of God, do what we say about your phone.

Chad (24:27):

Okay. Well, give me a second. My phone, unless yours does yours, can you zoom that far into a QR code on a billboard?

Paul (24:36):

Probably. But my question before that,

Chad (24:39):

You going to die trying to do it riding down the road. You’ve got to turn around and come. Yeah, it’s pointless.

Paul (24:43):

Yeah. I’m going to just hold on. Hey, Chad, I’ll call you back. I got to turn around real quick. A QR code. I’ve got to see what that QR code goes to.

Chad (24:52):

Oh, man.

Paul (24:52):

Yeah, that’s really bad.

Chad (24:54):

That’s a great example.

Paul (24:55):

Yeah. But it’s stuff like that that

Chad (24:57):

It just makes no

Paul (24:58):

Sense. There was something that inspired or sounded good at a time, but

Chad (25:04):

Needed some perspective. It’s also, I could take it that a little further. I mean, we’ve seen the different commercials and stuff too, and on different types of things, but some of them, recently we went on tv, the one we talked about it recently, a while back, and there was another one here locally where I don’t don’t want to poke fun at anybody.

Paul (25:21):

Exactly.

Chad (25:22):

But he was in a service industry that was in construction.

Paul (25:25):

And

Chad (25:25):

You’ve seen it. You can’t handle, handle this. It’s rough, man. And don’t, at some point, people have to be more aware of the image that they’re presenting to the public. Exactly. You can have a great, good or service, and you can have a great idea, and you could do a lot of things. And you could have the manifesto. You can know who your target audience is completely. And just the message is so bad that it’s just, they run from you.

Paul (25:51):

It

Chad (25:51):

Is a big turn off. So there’s so many points to this that we could go on about, but I think we’ve, we’re so passionate about this. I love these types of discussions because it helps

Paul (26:03):

Absolutely.

Chad (26:03):

Kind of hash it out and just talk through it.

Paul (26:09):

Yeah, because I, we’ve seen all things, so many different things that are not great.

Chad (26:14):

Yeah. Oh man.

Paul (26:14):

And it doesn’t have to be that way.

Chad (26:17):

And

Paul (26:17):

So I think I’ve mentioned this to you before, but years and years and years ago, my dad diagnosed me with the case of the ought bes. I know how things ought to be,

Chad (26:27):

Ought to bes. Okay. And

Paul (26:28):

It drives me nuts. I

Chad (26:29):

Thought you said, thought you were saying oddities, but okay.

Paul (26:32):

That probably as well. But no, the case of the oddities Got it. I know how things ought to be, and it drives me crazy when it’s not. And this kind of basic understanding of a brand branding and marketing is part of that. It’s like it doesn’t need to be that hard. But businesses after, businesses after businesses just make it harder than it

Chad (26:56):

Used to be. But I think that’s because they’re good at what they do. We’ve talked about

Paul (27:00):

This,

Chad (27:00):

Their brand, I mean their service or their product, then they’re not experts in this. And a lot of times we’ve talked about before, you can have a great product or service and fail, unfortunately, because you don’t go about it the right way.

Paul (27:14):

Without a doubt. A hundred percent.

Chad (27:16):

So yeah, great info. This is great info. Looking forward to talking about this more.

Paul (27:22):

All right, man. Well, I enjoyed it. We’ll do it again

Chad (27:24):

Soon. I enjoyed it. Let’s get back to work.

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