Listen to the interview here:

Kelly: We have a great show today about healing and hope. Our guest is my friend and fellow author, Carolyn Rice.

Carolyn has suffered severe abuse but found comfort and healing at the feet of Jesus. Jesus led her to serve people in numerous ministries that helped her. In addition, she has served as the alumni director for Seattle Bible College, where she received her associate’s degree. Carolyn’s books encourage, empower, and walk women through the word of God into the victory that only can be found in Jesus Christ.

Carolyn, welcome to the I Witness Podcast.

Carolyn: Thank you. I’m excited to be here.

Kelly: Yes, I’m so excited to have you. So, Carolyn, why don’t you share a little bit about your background, your family, and what you feel comfortable sharing with our listeners? We’d love to know a little bit more about you.

The past abuse and trauma

Carolyn: Okay, so I came from a background of severe trauma where I experienced physical violence, but I also witnessed physical violence as a child. I grew up with that trauma and brokenness, and it led to more dysfunction for me. I thought dysfunction was normal. The Lord had to pull me out of that.

I also come from a background of the occult. My family was into tarot cards, palm reading, and ouija boards, and I didn’t come from a Christian home. I only knew about Jesus at a young age because of a woman named Wanda. I went to her house and heard the name God mentioned, but I didn’t know what or who it was. I thought He was like this big giant. Somebody said He was this guy up in the sky, and I really thought of Jack and the bean stock. So, I went to my neighbor’s house, and I was like, who’s God? is there really this big giant and the sky? She started telling me about Jesus and how He died for my sins.

That was my experience with the gospel as a child. The Lord had to bring me out of brokenness. My testimony about how I came to the Lord is through Wanda, but I grew up in that dysfunction and in the occult. But I actually read tarot cards. I was reading tarot cards one night and heard this voice that said, “Turn on the tv.”

I turned on the TV, and a woman was talking about ouija boards and tarot cards stealing your soul and that we needed to live for Jesus.

I threw them away and started walking with Jesus for the rest of my life. I never looked back.

I never looked back.

Kelly: Wow. That’s amazing. I’m so sorry that you had to endure the trauma that you had to endure. But, sometimes, God brings you to the other side of it.

Carolyn: Yes, He does.

Kelly: That’s amazing. I love that. You had such a sweet heart that you thought He was this big guy in the sky because it would sound like that. Especially when you’re young and you don’t know. I appreciate you sharing that so much. Do you remember who you saw on tv? Who was talking about tarot cards and talking about Jesus?

Carolyn: I don’t. It was so long ago. I really don’t remember who it was.

Kelly: It accomplished the task and put a deep enough seed in you, right? That’s wonderful.

So, you saw on TV and heard His voice to you, which is very scary sometimes because it’s that reverent kind of fear you know is powerful, but it’s not gonna hurt you. Is that how you felt whenever you heard Him speak to your heart?

Carolyn: Actually, I didn’t think anything of it. I was just like, “Oh, I should turn on the tv then.”

Kelly: That’s wonderful. I’m so glad that you turned on the TV that day.

Carolyn: Me too.

What does the healing journey look like?

Kelly: Where did you go from there? When you decided to follow Jesus,  what did that walk look like?

Carolyn: It was a journey. It was a healing journey. One of the verses, when I think about my healing journey, is in Isaiah. It talks about how God didn’t bring them straight to the point where they could have been. Instead, He brought them the long way, and I feel like the Lord really brought me the long way.

There was a guy in our Bible college class who said, as he’s drawing on the board, the journey with God goes from here to this point. Then it goes over here, and then here, and then here, and finally, you get over here. That is my journey with the Lord. He took me from one thing to another, and I really feel like my life is like that verse.

Taking the long way

He had to take me the long way because the things that I faced, especially with a background in the occult, to face them all at once would’ve been too much for me. It was a journey of healing, growing, and bringing me step by step to a place of healing. I realized that each thing He got me through prepared me for the next.

Kelly: That’s wonderful. It is so true that it is a journey all over the place. That is so funny. You’re absolutely right. I feel like you hit the nail on the head whenever you say He is preparing you in each phase or in each part of it. That’s wonderful.

Someone with a history of what you’ve gone through has a wonderful opportunity to reach people differently. Because we feel so much comfort when speaking to people who go through things we’ve gone through.

Why don’t you talk a little bit about when you went to Bible college and were involved in women’s ministries and what that journey was like when you went to Bible college?

What did God teach you?

How was it learning there? Did you learn many techniques and tools that helped you embrace your story and share it, especially with women who have gone through similar things?

Carolyn: My journey to Bible college is interesting, too, because I wanted to be a librarian. I worked at the library, and I would pray, and I’d feel “go to Bible college instead.” I was actually going to school to be a librarian. I dismissed it, then someone came to my house who had no idea what God had been talking to me about, and they were talking about Bible college and how great it would be. It kept coming up.

So I said, “Lord, if you really want me to go to Bible college, show me where to go.” My husband and I were on a breakfast date, and I saw a sign that said Seattle Bible College. I checked it out and said to my husband, “I think I need to go to Bible college.”

He goes, “Well, where would you go?” So I told him, and he said, “That’s where my family went.” I had no idea that they had gone there.

So I went there, and one of the teachers said my name, and looked at me and said, “So which Rice do you belong to?”

An unknown legacy

 I came with this legacy that wasn’t mine but my husband’s. He firmly planted me, and I didn’t have a really good grasp on the word when I went there.

But through Bible college, I grasped the word. I feel like I got a fire hose of the word, a fire hose on me. Because I had not learned that stuff as a child or a young adult, and I read my Bible, but I didn’t understand a lot of it. I just went to Bible college in obedience to Christ.

He really changed my life. I learned how to study the scriptures, understand them, and apply them to my life. I learned the background and history. Then I was able to take that and give it to other women. But what Bible college really did for me is teach me how to live in that for the rest of my life. How to study the scriptures, and how to pull out the truth. You know that saying, teach a man to fish, and he’ll fish for a lifetime, that’s what I got at Bible college.

Kelly: That’s wonderful. Wow. I didn’t even think about how you didn’t grow up in that. Gosh, that would be like a fire hose, for sure. Wow, that’s amazing. But the Holy Spirit helps you all the way. Where God guides, He provides. That’s great. I love it so much.

So what else would you say you got from Bible college, with your firehouse of information, and it’s a part of you now. Is that what started your writing journey? Is that what started your writing ministry?

The next step in the healing journey

Carolyn: I think that provided the background, but after I graduated from Bible college. I said, “Well, what’s next?”

Because I wanted to be a librarian, I went to Bible college because He told me to. I had no idea what we were doing. I don’t think God did this or caused it, but I broke my foot about a month after Bible college. I was off my foot for five months because it took a long time to heal.

During that time, I was like, “Well, what do I do now? I can’t clean my house. And I’m just kind of sitting here.”

That’s when I saw this ad for writing classes, and I just knew that’s what I was supposed to do. I ended up studying writing way longer than my foot was broken.

I studied with a company for three and a half years how to put an article together, writing fiction and nonfiction, and that’s where I learned how to write.

Kelly: Oh my gosh, I’m so sorry you broke your foot. That takes so long. There is really nothing you can do at all. Did you have a cast?

Carolyn: I had one of those big black boot things.

Kelly: What a way to put you right where you needed to be and stop you at all costs.

Carolyn: Yep.

Where God guides, He provides

Kelly: He has a way of doing that. But I think you are showing us something really important that maybe you don’t see or maybe have not even realized. I definitely see it so clearly, and it’s just obedience. The obedience you have for Him, listening, letting Him guide you, surrendering the control. Surrendering is so difficult.

It is, especially from the background that you have. But, so often, when people go through what you’ve gone through with the abuse and everything, there’s a fear guiding your life. It’s so scary to give that control away. It’s so hard.

So, I think it’s wonderful, amazing, and really inspiring. It inspires me. I’m sure it will inspire many women that listen to this to have that kind of obedience to really listen to Him and do what He’s asking. Even when He gives you a broken foot.

Even in those challenges because that in itself is a challenge. We had something similar happen recently. My husband had an accident. Let me tell you, it’s been a difficult time.

You’re a mom with a daughter, a son, and a wonderful granddaughter. You’re most likely the glue holding everybody together, and here you are with this boot on and can’t walk. But I love that you were still sharing your knowledge and ministry.

After you did the writing classes, what was the project, your first book? How did that look? Did you start writing every day?

What was that journey like? I’m sure God was guiding you through.

Working through obedience

Carolyn: I knew I was supposed to write a book, and I knew how to write a devotion well. I felt like the Lord, well … this is some background on the book I’ve never told anyone about. I pulled out every verse I could find on the love of God. I meditated on that verse for myself. I studied that verse, and then I turned each one into a devotion talking to a woman who has been broken.

I was talking to myself in the past and giving her hope in speaking to her.

I knew I was supposed to take all these devotions and turn them into a book, and I didn’t know anything about publishing. Someone introduced me to a publisher named Athena. I prayed “where am I supposed to go with this?” Every time I prayed about it, I would see this Athena water truck go by.

Carolyn: I published my first book with Athena. I’ve gone on from there, but the Lord really showed me the publishing journey through her. She really believed in my book, and I did my first radio interview with her. So it was really praying and following Him. I realized that when you don’t know where to go, wait until He shows you and step out.

I was always afraid of making a mistake and doing the wrong thing. The Lord showed me that if I make a mistake, He’s gonna make sure I get back on the right road because He’s a good Father. When we step out in that obedience, if we make a mistake, He will not judge us and pound us with a hammer. He’s going to lead us back in the right direction.

God leads us in the right direction.

Kelly: Oh yeah, that’s just beautiful. Carolyn, thank you so much for saying that because, man, do we need to hear it. I totally understand the fear of making a mistake. That’s something that always plagued me, personally, and a lot of women listening to this, too. You want to try and do everything right. But yes, absolutely.

Man, that is so funny about the truck. He’s showing you right there. He’s like, “This is how you do this. Just go with them, and that’s it.” That’s wonderful. I love your trust. During this whole journey, even though it was kind of like a scatter plot, did you feel like your trust just grew and grew, even though you still had challenges?

You still broke your foot, and I’m sure there were other challenges, such as never publishing before. But, also, thank you for sharing how you put your book together, especially if you’ve never shared that before. I feel honored that you’re sharing that with us today, honestly. That’s so much work, going through each verse like that. Especially when you have no idea because you didn’t plan necessarily to put them into a book. So you were doing that genuinely to learn, and God has repurposed it and made it new. That’s just so inspiring, honestly.

Trusting God through the healing journey.

But do you feel your trust throughout this is growing? Or is it still kind of like, what the … what’s He doing?

Carolyn: It’s, it’s growing. But, I enter situations where I’m like, “Lord, I don’t, I don’t understand this. Why am I going through this? I just obeyed you.”

I have to stop and remind myself what He’s already done. And when I do that, it helps me trust Him to move forward. Even now, I’m in a time of transition where my husband and I have walked into things that we didn’t realize we would walk into, and the Lord keeps putting that verse in front of me.

I will see the goodness of the Lord and the land of the living. I’m crying right now, but I will see the goodness of the Lord. I will have joy. I will praise the Lord once again.

Encouragement in Bible verses

Kelly: That’s wonderful. That was going to be my next question for you, is there a verse that really resonated with you that you’d like to share? Because I feel like a lot of people sometimes can’t, especially when it’s hard times, you can’t really remember because you’re overwhelmed and feeling really upset.

Kelly: So it sounds like you said that verse is from Isaiah.

Carolyn: Yeah, I didn’t write that one down, but I did write one down, though.

Kelly: Oh, good. What’s the verse you’d wanna share?

Carolyn: John 14:27  “Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.” NKJV

Kelly: That is so powerful. I can see where that verse can really stick with you in your journey, for sure. It’s not easy to find peace in this world, but especially when you’ve had a start like you’ve had as a child. So yes, thank you so much for sharing that.

Healing the Father Wound

Why don’t you tell us a little more about where we can find you and where we would be able to find your books. I know you have a new book,  Healing the Father Wound. Why don’t you talk a little bit about that book and how it can really bless our listeners, especially with the focus of healing and the hope that Jesus provides.

Carolyn: Healing the Father Wound is a book about looking at God the Father. I’m just gonna share the story of where this book came from.

We were sitting in church, and this pastor from our church, who’s not the regular pastor, was speaking. He said, “Anyone who’s birthing something in prayer, stand up.”

I felt like maybe I should stand up, but I don’t know. My husband’s looking at me like, “you should stand up.” But I didn’t. He wanted to pray for intercessors. Then my heart started beating out my chest, and this guy goes, “The woman who’s sitting there in your heart is beating fast, you need to stand up too.”

God calls you where you are

So I stood up. Now I know the man very well, and he’s a very good, faithful, authentic Christian. But when I stood up, I looked at him and saw anger. So I went home, and the Lord was putting on my heart to go back and watch the Facebook live of that church service, so I did.

When I stood up, there was no anger on his face at all. So the Lord showed me that I was putting anger on any man in authority. I saw him as angry. I saw him as controlling, and I knew I needed healing from that. So Healing the Father Wound is going through the book of Mark, because Mark is the action book, and looking at the actions of Jesus. John 14:9 says that when you’ve seen Jesus, you’ve seen the Father, and relating to what we see in Jesus by his actions to what our Heavenly Father is like. So many women who have been through trauma and abuse, we have looked at other men in authority, even the Heavenly Father, as angry, controlling, and mean. That’s not who our heavenly Father is. So it’s looking at who He really is.

Looking at God for who He is

Kelly: Wow. Thank you so much for sharing that, too. I love that. Your heart was beating out of your chest, and he called it so accurately. But that’s very true. A lot of women struggle with that, and I love the humility that you have. But, again, it goes back to your obedience. To listen and look at it again because you could easily say, no, this is how I see it. But you went back and saw how he didn’t have that face at all. He was trying to call on you to validate what you were already hearing and feeling. That’s amazing. We can find this book on your website, yes?

Carolyn: Yes, it’s at CarolynsBooks.com.

Kelly: Wonderful. I will definitely put a link in the show notes. Carolyn’s newest book, Healing the Father Wound, sounds like it will be extremely inspiring and bless so many people. Especially in the book of Mark, it’s such a wonderful book.

So before we go, is there any other encouragement you would like to share with the women who are listening? Or share a takeaway from your journey of where Jesus brought you from, even when you were young until now? Through all of this obedience you’ve shown, is there one encouragement you would like to share for women who may have struggled or are still struggling with what you’ve endured?

Do not give up

Carolyn: Do not give up. Keep following the Lord. He’s gonna bring you on a journey, and it may not look how you want it to look. You may not be miraculously healed overnight, but tomorrow you will be a little bit more healed than today. In a month from now, you’ll be more healed than you are today. Then, when you look back years, you’ll see all that the Lord has done in your life.

We may not understand why things happen the way they do, but when we are old, when we’re on our last days, we’ll be able to look back and see how good the Lord is. I’m middle-aged and am already looking back and seeing how wonderful the Lord has been to me. Where would I be without Him? I just, I don’t even wanna think about it.

Kelly: Yes, totally. I agree. Thank you so much. That’s just wonderful. I feel honored that you’re here today. Thank you so much for sharing your story. It’s extremely inspirational to all of us. I know I definitely have a new outlook on a lot of things, especially the struggles you’ve gone through, and I can’t wait to read your book. Carolyn, thank you so much again for being here.

Carolyn: Thank you.

*This is the edited blog version of the podcast episode. Some parts may have been edited or changed from the audio version for ease of reading and flow of information.

If you or someone you know suffers from abuse or domestic violence and want help, you can visit the National Domestic Violence Hotline or call 1-800-799-7233 (SAFE).

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