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Taylor Swift changes GDP’s world wide and has the whole world humming her tunes — but Spectacle host Melissa Mackenzie thinks she’s overrated. Swift, she protests, uses the same three chords and pairs them with mediocre lyrics to deliver a sappy product. Co-host Scott McKay agrees.

On today’s episode of The Spectacle podcast, Melissa and Scott go on to discuss the Swift phenomenon taking place in the NFL, and Scott speculates that Swift and Kansas City Chief’s quarterback Travis Kelce’s relationship may be a bit contrived. The hugely unsuccessful entertainment industry is, he argues, trying to take advantage of the recent popularity of the NFL, and Swift is their ticket in. Listen in to catch their discussion of the NFL, conspiracy theories, conservatives in music, and all things Taylor Swift.