Dr. Joel Rosen: All right. Hello, everyone. I’m here with a great patient of ours to go over his experiences with us, Mark Mariani. He worked with us a couple of years ago. And we have him on the call to be able to discuss some of his experiences with us. So thanks so much, Mark, for joining us today to have a conversation.

Mark Mariani: My pleasure, my honor. I’m glad to be here.

Dr. Joel Rosen: Yes, thank you. So I always like to go back to your initial paperwork and the things that you wrote in terms of where you are when we first started. And maybe you could talk a little bit about your past history, I know that you had a pretty quiet, quite stressful background, which you felt kind of got you into this mess in terms of pushing so hard and being hard-driven. So maybe let’s talk a little bit about what were you dealing with. And how did you get to where you got to before you and I started working together?

Mark Mariani: Yeah, gotcha. So I’ve lived a pretty crazy life. And it’s a lot of stuff. So I’m going to try to cram it is, you know, as small as I possibly can, and in a short amount of time. So a former Marine, when I was in the Marine Corps, I was with an anti-Terrorism Unit. So traveled all over Southeast Asia, doing these anti-terrorism security measures, as you can imagine, you know, I was in some pretty sticky situations, and you know, it was pretty stressful.

So got out of the Marine Corps, went back and went to college, and got a degree in criminal justice with a concentration in private security. Now, when I got out of the Marine Corps, I knew that I had a little bit of, we’ll say, PTSD, hypervigilance, and, you know, just dealing with a lot of the stuff that I did, but I never really addressed the root cause, you know, I was, you know, a Marine, you know, I’m tough and, you know, I can, I can persevere, this isn’t gonna affect me.

So as I went to college, you know, never really kind of dealt with it had some sleep issues. You know, I wouldn’t say full-on insomnia, but, you know, definitely wasn’t getting really good sleep. But again, I just never kind of dealt with the root cause. After I graduated, I ended up getting hired by Gavin de Becker and Associates, which is an executive protection firm, based out of California, and I got assigned to a multi-billion dollar family and I ended up running a 10-man protective detail.

And as you can imagine, it was full on I lived out of a suitcase, nine months out of the year, you know, running, you know, this, this detail and dealing with his family and just all over the place to timezone changes, you know, it was, again, very, very, very stressful. And the sleep issues got even worse, I ended up you know, just trying to put my, my finger in the hole, and, you know, just all these, you know, simple, you know, fixes that never actually got to the root of the cause I ended up going on sleeping pills.

And you know, that’s, that made things even worse, and then, you know, my energy was getting depleted, so caffeine, coffee, etc, etc. So I did that for six years, you know, was pretty burnout realized that wasn’t really my calling got out of that line of work. And then I ended up going back to school, getting a degree in exercise physiology, and getting into the health and wellness field, which I’m currently in. And that actually brought me overseas.

So I lived abroad for 11 years, kind of traveled around Southeast Asia worked for multiple different brands as a master instructor running fitness retreats, I’ve opened up a gym, you know, teaching certification courses, and, you know, we’re working with 10s of 1000s of people. Now, in that process, I, you know, kind of burned myself out, you know, I was, you know, traveling everywhere, again, giving everything that I had to everybody else, and I wasn’t necessarily taking care of myself, and you know, kind of doing that, that deep work.

And then it just got me to a point roughly about two years ago, prior to when we started working together. Where like it just I crashed, I crashed, I had nothing left in me. You know, just to get up in the morning and get through the day was the drag. The insomnia was horrible. I was only getting a couple of hours of sleep at night. I was stuck in hyper-vigilant mode and didn’t quite know how to get out of it.

And yeah, everything just went sour. I ended up getting this position to come back to the US and it was a great opportunity. Didn’t know if I was going to have the energy to do it. But it brought me closer to family back to the US and again a great opportunity. So I decided to do that and I knew that I needed to find somebody that was going to you know in the background you know helped me make some some change. Just figure out exactly you know, what was going on, you know, with with with my body. And then I started doing a lot of research, you know, came upon your website and started, you know, doing a little bit of a, you know, a deeper dive, you know, some videos and I was like, you know, man, you know, I’m gonna check this guy out. And then that’s why I booked the initial consultation with you.

Dr. Joel Rosen: Awesome. Okay, great. Well, you can see why oh, sorry, go ahead. It was a lot of information. Oh, that’s fine. That’s good. You can kind of get a reason why. That’s why people find our mark is that they have a lot of stressors that they experience in their life. And in your case, you can see that there’s a certain amount of hard-wired to be accomplished and driven, and then the military experience and all the stress that that would impact you on the body and then realizing, okay, at some level, I crashed, and I burned. So I guess that’s the question I would ask first, just as a curveball, what was it that made you finally take that next step of Okay, I gotta get this done.

Because a lot of the time people are dealing with issues, but it’s not until something acute happens for them to make that next step of like, okay, I can’t keep flying the plane on my own, I gotta find someone else that’s going to help me was Do you remember specifically, what it was for you, Mark that made? You say, Okay, I got I got to actually do something about this now.

Mark Mariani: Yeah, well, whenever like, all system has failed, and I completely crashed in, you know, like, that was getting depressive thoughts and anxiety. And I just knew, I just knew, like, my body was done. And I was like, I need some help. I can’t do this on my own. I mean, there are so many things that I have learned, you know, being in the health and wellness field. But when it like when you’re in such a dark spot, and you have nothing to give, like trying to navigate and figure things out on your own was just, it was just way too complex.

And that’s where I was, like, I need to have somebody that, you know, really fully gets it from a functional medicine approach. And no longer could I just put my fingers in the hole and put on, you know, these band-aids and these quick fixes, I needed to get to the roots and you know, implement some, you know, good habits and protocols.

Dr. Joel Rosen: Gotcha. Okay, great. And as far as you mentioned, we had that initial conversation. Do you remember anything about that initial conversation that made you decide, okay, I think this is the guy that is going to help me, is there anything that stood out in your mind before we started working together, we always give the opportunity with our potential patients to ask us whatever questions are for us to do a deep dive to figure out if they have a problem, we think we can help and whether or not we should work together? And this is something they want to do they want to do about it. Was there anything that stuck out in your mind that made you decide to make that leap?

Mark Mariani:  Yeah, first and foremost, I remember you just asking me like, you know, what’s, what’s going on? Tell me a little bit about yourself. And you were just very kind and understanding and empathetic, and you didn’t speak, you just listened. And you heard my story. And I just, I felt, I felt comforted just you know, from that approach, and I was like, okay, you know, I could see that this guy, you being sincere and genuine, and it made me feel really, really, really good.

Dr. Joel Rosen: Good. I’m glad I’m glad. I mean, you can’t fake caring how we say, right, you do enjoy your job and you want to help people, you have two ears and one mouth for a reason. So thank you. And I’m glad that that struck a chord. So as far as you did write down the mark, which I want to ask you about, you knew enough about sometimes people don’t know what they don’t know.

But you knew enough about, okay, well, I want to learn about my genetics, what my predispositions are, I know that I need to run better tests that are gonna give me a specific protocol that is for me, only, not just a cookie cutter, throw everything against the wall kind of thing. And I wanted to do it in a holistic type of way for health optimization. So that’s quite sophisticated. You can tell from your background, how you would arrive there. Was that something where you had already gone down the traditional routes and that you were just hitting dead end after dead end? Or was it just you had always been of the holistic mind and didn’t want even go that approach in the first place?

Mark Mariani: No, I mean, it was the, you know, the first statement, whereas you know, I went down the western route, you know, and I saw the gastrointestinal doctor, I saw the neurological doctor, I saw this doctor for sleep and this and this and this and, you know, right away, you know, their approach As you know, let’s match you, you know, here’s, here’s the problem, and we’re just gonna give you a medication that’s just gonna match things and nobody communicated with one another. You know, it wasn’t a team of people working together, it was just this individual approach.

And it just failed on all measures. And I was very, very, very frustrated, and deeply dis disappointed. Where it says, you know, as you know, we’re a system of systems. And when, you know, one is out, it affects all the other systems. And I just, I really, you know, was, you know, hoping that, you know, I would find the right person that would understand that, and, you know, and look at everything, so I didn’t have to go 100 different places. I went to one person, they ran all the tests, and they looked at the overall picture, and that was you.

Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, no, that’s quite insightful. I know, I’ve read a couple of books about the military and so forth. And I guess the main thing that keeps everything running in order is communication, right, and hierarchy. And if the body isn’t run in the same way, you have the specialists that aren’t talking to the generalists, which is what your body is, and there’s nothing independent about the body, everything is related. So kudos to you for doing that. So when we first started, some of the things that I see are gut issues, hair loss, psoriasis, insomnia, really bad brain fog, to your point as to just crashing and burning.

So I guess, with our work together, Mark, anything stands out in terms of understanding your genetic predispositions? Or what your specific marching orders were that you’ve continued to do? Or even dovetail into? What are you feeling now, after we’ve worked together? How, how have you recovered? Or how have your outcomes been since working? So the two-part question is basically, the first part is? What do you know about yourself that you didn’t know, that you implemented? And what were the results of that being implemented?

Mark Mariani: Yeah. So before we get to that, I just wanted to chime in and mention one more thing, because you asked, you know, what kind of stood out during that initial consultation. And another thing that really stood out, you know, after I kind of made the decision, you know, to start working with you was the health history questionnaire that I had to fill out, you know, with family history, and, and just all the details, it was, you know, was quite, you know, extensive.

And, and I just loved that I loved the fact that, you know, we weren’t just kind of looking at, you know, the current scenario is, you know, it was just, it was just everything and, and, you know, my family, and, you know, my grandma and grandma, and like, you know, kind of going up the, you know, the family history. So I thought that was very extensive, and, you know, gathering that information, it was, it was definitely a good approach.

So, getting back to the questions, you know, what, you know, what did, I didn’t really, you know, quite know, you know, before I got into the states, one genetics, I mean, we did that genomic test, and there was a lot of things come back, I mean, one of the ones that, you know, just kind of popped into my mind was, you know, you asked me, you know, Mark, like, you know, are you empathetic?

Are you a people pleaser, do you always want to help people? And that’s why I got into the health and fitness, you know, field and the answer was, you know, without a doubt, you know, yes. And you could see that, I mean, I was predisposition, you know, genetically to kind of have this, this snippet. And I saw that play out because there were so many times where I knew that like, you know, I needed more rest, I needed more recovery, but yet somebody you know, it’d be like, Mark, hey, can you do a session on Saturday?

Can you do this for me? Can you do that for me? And I never said no, you know, it was always yes, yes. Even though deep down inside, I was like, you know, I don’t know how I’m gonna juggle this. I don’t know if I can handle much more. But I always said, yeah, so you know, that that was definitely something that stood out amongst, you know, just several, you know, other things and know, your approach with pulling up, like, you would share your screen and you pull up all the different diagrams, and you show me how, like, MTHFR affected, you know, the adrenals, and it affected this and you explained everything, and, you know, you just kind of connected the dots off, you know, where I was at my genetics and you know, how it was kind of playing out, you know, which was, which was fantastic.

And then we did the comprehensive stool analysis, you know, and that that’s always, you know, to me, you know, oh, the disease starts in the guts, you know, and that’s kind of one of the first things you know, to go to and where everything else stems out and you know, and then we found out that, you know, by doing the test on Um, you know, I had a bacterial infection that was H. Pylori, as well as a parasitic infection, you know, the blastocyst hominess, severe dysbiosis, you know, and imbalance, you know, good guys versus bad guys, as well as in, you know, talking about brain fog talking about insomnia, talk about, you know, these food sensitivities, leaky gut, you know, my zonula Zonulin levels were, you know, through the roof, I don’t like getting that information, and then, you know, taking the right approach, not, you know, hey, let’s throw everything at it to heal the gut. Well, no look, like we got to, we got to take the approach of getting rid of the bacterial infection, that parasitic infections, you know, through the anti-microbial.

And then we go in and, you know, we alter the diet, and then, you know, we heal the guts, and it’s a process, it’s a system and having, you know, somebody like yourself that, you know, fully gets it and understands that methodical approach on you know, how to do that was, was a game changer. Healing the guts was a game changer, you know, am I completely out of the woods? No, you know, just because of how bad and how long that I had gut issues.

But do I know that now like that intestinal lining is, you know, it is healed? Yes, I do. Because I don’t have those sensitivities, you know, my sleep is, is much better, and you know, the brain fog and just on and on and on. So that was an absolute, you know, a game changer. And then we did the Dutch test to have a look at, you know, kind of cortisol levels and things I thought that were actually going to be a little worse. Beings, you know, where I was at mentally and you know, that hyper-vigilant, sympathetic nervous system overdrive. But, I mean, it uncovered some things, but it wasn’t as bad as you know, I was thinking initially. Yeah, off the top of my cuff, I don’t know, if that answer.

Dr. Joel Rosen: Listen, that’s a great answer. Great answer. Listen, if you can see, if you’re listening to this, this is not a program for everyone, right, because a lot of people just want the, you know, fill in the blanks and, and follow the leader and, and take the magic pill, if you will. And a lot of the times, that’s not gonna work, especially as complicated as it is that we need you to be in the front seat with us, and be able to hand over the steering wheel to us because that’s why you came to see us, but yet, you’re still up there wanting to dry right, which is typically who we’re going to be working with just commenting on your initial comment with reviewing your health history and how in-depth we get.

I love doing that to Mark because I do go through that with a fine toothcomb. nothing more frustrating. I’m sure people can relate and you can where you’ll go to a doctor’s office. And it’s not even done electronically. It’s done, you’re having to handwrite everything. And then you go in there and half the time. They’re not even looking at it and the other half of the time they’re asking you questions that you already answered on the piece of paper that they didn’t even look at right so we look at that and I circle and star things to make sure Okay, I got to ask about this because this can be one of those.

What was it, doctor? I forget what Doogie Howser or whatever it is where there’s those little you know, there’s those Doctor House right? There are those little nuances where this person could have had exposure to mold or there’s a family history of heart issues. So I definitely want to know about this or so it’s very important to ask those questions and to read them, and incorporate them into your game plan. Number one awesome commentary on the empathy that’s very common with our people is we say you have an antenna that extends out of your head way too high.

And it has the Aquaman of fishes coming to you and all these frequencies of the world and wanting to be Mother Teresa and helping everyone on top of the fact that you’re high security, you’re helping everyone you’re saying no to yourself, and yes to them. And, you know, you have the foresight to know okay, I hit the wall with stress. I know typically that’s going to be an adrenal hormone thing, but having the understanding that it’s all one system, and if I’m inflamed, it’s not just impacting my HPA axis. It’s impacting my gut health, my brain health, my neurons, it’s impacting everything, and to go about it in a certain way. So awesome to you that definitely success leaves clues.

The other thing I’ll just point out, which is a small but big detail, is the propensity to at the cellular level, not breathe as effectively as you can, because you’re not moving iron out of tissues effectively. So maybe we can talk just a smidgen about that mark in terms of how the whole Iron and blood donation and or just the impact that that has on your health or what you learned about that as well.

Mark Mariani: Yeah, so, um, you know, based upon the standard, you know, bloodwork, you know, in the fair tin, you know, on kind of the indicators of iron and iron overload. And I’m sure you recall that like mine words, you know, these massive.

Dr. Joel Rosen: You weren’t, like, you weren’t a textbook, like a hemochromatosis patient, meaning everything’s just overflowing the out of the bucket, but it was still a dis, what we call a dysregulated. Pattern.

Mark Mariani: Exactly, And then after you, you know, kind of explained that was, you know, that was the case, you know, we came up with a pretty good approach from, you know, supplementation, certain foods, you know, increased copper, how copper is going to, you know, kind of lower than that iron helped flush the iron out of the body, as well, as you know, bloodletting, you know, which I did that, I think was like, every six months, you know, and got a little relief from that. So, yeah, it goes back to, like, you know, there’s no huge, it’s a little on top of a little eventually equals a lot and, you know, in taking those, you know, those, you know, small, you know, little approaches to, you know, free some of the iron that was, you know, stuck and stored in my body, it paid dividends.

Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, absolutely. And then I also remember going over the comprehensive stool testing and getting that Zonulin level very low, which was great, because it was super high. And that is a marker of intestinal permeability. And then basically, you have the immune system being triggered more likely for food sensitivities, not being able to make your secretions as much so that can create massive amounts of snowball effect.

And I think one of the things we tried to do was, we did diet variation we played around with shifting, your time window a little bit earlier to the left, if I remember correctly, and then also trying to get you to get some more diversity in your GI health, because there was, so between those two, maybe give us some feedback on what you learned there and what you’re doing since then.

Mark Mariani: Yeah, so, you know, when you have intestinal permeability, you know, the body like, you know, it doesn’t matter how good the food is, you know, broccoli, cauliflower, like all these good super organic, healthy food, no matter what you put it in, you know, if it’s getting through that lining, or the, you know, the body, the blood, the cells, you know, it doesn’t recognize it, and it looks at it as a foreign invader.

So if you were always comfortable eating, you know, broccoli, and you know, and it made you feel better, and note, and then also now you’re eating it and like all these healthy foods, the body’s responding, you know, you’re getting this inflammation, you know, gas and burping and bloating and, and you’re like, what’s going on.

So, you know, when that started to heal, I was able to kind of implement, you know, prebiotics and probiotics, and then food, you know, diversity, but the biggest thing is, it was slowly like, I think, you know, I kind of made that mistake, you know when we were working together, where it was, like, alright, you know, I’m good, you know, I’m just gonna dive in and start eating all these salads and you know, all this good healthy food, but like, my body wasn’t ready for that.

So, you know, if I can, you know, give any advice to any listeners that are watching this and, you know, listening to this is play the curious scientist. And, just remember that you know, if one thing doesn’t work, you know, try something else. If that doesn’t work, try something else. And just be curious. And, and, you know, and just realize that, like healings, not lit, linear, you know, it could take months or yours in my case, and I’m still you know, doing work.

But be prepared to do the work, be kind, and be gentle. I had to learn this. Be gentle with yourself over the process. And you know, that cheerleader in the background, like, you know, oh, you need to be healthy, you know, you need this energy you, you know, calm that cheerleader down and have that cheerleader work for you and give you a pat on the back because you need that and it’s important.

Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, that’s a great comment. I think that it’s slow, slow, and steady wins the race, that’s for sure. And then when you have a default mechanism, because I think there might have been one or two times and very seldom because you can see with your attitude already that you know bleeding is a weakness leaving the body you can kind of already see that happening with your mindset. But I do believe there was one time where we got the results back and we might have kicked up the ocean floor and you had I had to maybe talk you down the ledge just a little bit in terms of what was going on.

Mark Mariani: I remember that I was, you know, I was getting a little gain, I was feeling a little better. And then, you know, things kind of stirred up with, you know, one of the approaches we were taking and, and then it was just frustrating because it was like, oh, man, I’m starting to see the light, and you know, you’re taking steps forward, and then all of a sudden, that light just closes, it’s dark, and you feel like you’re going back down the ladder. So and I remember that, and, you know, the pep talk, as well as a little bit of tough love.

I remember one time, you know, like, you know, I had said something like, oh, you know, Dr. Rosen, know, why is this not working? And, and, you know, and you were very, you know, just upfront and, and, you know, said, Well, Mark, you know, have you given it enough time, you know, did you do this, did you and you know, at first I was like, Oh man, like, you know, that’s not what I wanted to hear, you know. But then, you know, I realized after we got off the call that you know, it was coming from the heart. It was tough love, and I and I needed that. So that was good.

Dr. Joel Rosen: No, that was good. And I think also too, I remember just like, hey, like, the game we just mentioned in terms of, even though it’s not a stick, like a hallmark presentation of iron overload that dysregulated pattern is, is root cause number one along with the gut, because if you’re not moving that iron out of the tissues, it will feed the microbes, you’ll have H Pylori and blastocyst. So if we just focus downstream, I’m not multitasking at the same time.

So I remember having to insert a little bit of that recognition and like, hey, when was the last time that you donated? What’s going on with these things here, those hemoglobin and red blood cell markers are still sky high, we got to get those down. So we kind of kept it in, in context, I think is what we did. So as far as if someone’s listening to this, and they’re skeptical, they’re like, Well, I don’t know, this would work for me. What would you tell them? Given your experience?

Mark Mariani: Yeah, how would tell them? I don’t know. If I, if we were talking about this, you know, prior to the recording, but, you know, you’ll never find a U haul behind a Hearst. So you know, if you’re in a, in a, a state of mind and body where you’re drained, you’re tired, you know, you’re depressed, you got anxiety, you’re not feeling well, and you’re not living life, you know, to its fullest is stop putting on the band-aid stop, you know, trying to put your fingers in the holes and unplug the dam and you know, invest the money, the best money you can make is, is the best money you can spend is, you know, to invest it in yourself.

And you know, without health, there is, you know, there is no wealth. So, spend the money, and, you know, you know, just all the things that we were saying is, is that, you know, having somebody like yourself that oversees the entire process and the full picture, stop going to one person for this and one person for that and, and trying to put all the pieces in yourself. Yeah, I would, I would say, you know, spend the money, you know, understand that, you know, it’s gonna take work, do the work. And you’ll be very grateful that you did.

Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, no, that’s great advice, Mark, I eat a lot of people will say, well, and I believe them, that they’ll willing to spend the money, but they’re, they’ve gone to so many different people before. And now they’re concerned about this as another me too. And will this work for me? Because I’ve already done this. And a lot of people will say that they’ve done so many things. And then I’ll ask them about well, did you do the genomic testing?

Did you do your blood glucose ketone? Did you do your diet variation? Are you looking at your iron and your metabolism there? Did you incorporate your Dutch test with the GI MAP test? And are you putting all these puzzle pieces together and it’s so much different, like a lot of people say the analogy a lot is water just will not boil at 99.2 degrees Celsius, it has to get to that 100 degrees, right?

So even though you’ve gotten that burner up to a certain degree, you can’t fold your arms, and saying this is unfair like the laws of nature aren’t working for me when I want it to when I’m going against you know, the physique. So I think that’s it, that’s a good point. Um, any last things you would want to add a mark in terms of, you know, just your, your whole journey where you are now, all of the above?

Mark Mariani: Yeah, so I did want to chime in and say that, you know, we talked about genetics, we talked about the gut we talked about physiology and those are all great and you know, dealing with somebody like yourself that you know, understands physiology and biology and you know, chemistry and hormones and that whole aspect of it is massive but you don’t just deal with the body, you understand that it is it’s a lifestyle. You know, I mean like, like genes your DNA like you’re born with that and you die with your DNA.

It’s you know, the epigenetics, it’s though it’s the lifestyle and the environment around that cell is going to dictate how that cell is going to respond. Are you going to get a disease or not getting a disease? It’s the environment. Well, how do you change the environment? How do you impact the environment? Did you change your lifestyle?

Yes, that’s nutrition. But what about like, like, breathwork? What about, you know, prayer? What about meditation, what about, you know, having friends in love and, and things like that the environment and earthing and, and I could just go on and on and on that it’s, it’s, you know, this, this whole lifestyle approach, and you get that you don’t just deal with, you know, the blood in the labs, and, you know, the physiology. It’s everything.

And, you know, another thing is, you know, that Biology of Belief is, you know, I know, it’s very cliche that what the mind conceives the body achieves. But you know, what I noticed in myself, and I noticed with, you know, people I’ve worked with in the past, and just people in general is, you got to be careful of the story you tell yourself because the mindset is everything you can have, you know, the greatest diet and exercise plan and everything going well.

But if you’re telling yourself this, this broken story, that’s how your life is gonna plan, you know, pan out. So, you know, listen to the story, you’re telling yourself, and you know, if it’s not the story that you want, change the story, change the narrative, and that’s going to impact you know, the mind, that’s going to impact your, your thoughts, your emotions, and then you know, your biology. So that’s super important.

Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, thank you for bringing that up. That is super important in terms of, I always say you have to be congruent with your default mindset, or your belief system, and where you want to get to. And I just want to kudos and recognize recognition for you. Because I know every time we would email each other, it’s like, I’m great. How are you doing?

How is your family? You know, you always have that extra sincere, I want to know how you’re doing and I, that goes a long way than just doing your genetics and knowing your blood work. I mean, you that’s the glue that turns the 99.2 to, you know, 200 degrees Celsius, just just as an insight, or just follow up question, are you still saying yes to people, when you should be saying no? Or have you been able to cross that threshold of being able to maybe put yourself first from time to time? How have you done on that aspect?

Mark Mariani: Because, yeah, I’ve done very well with that, you know, just because, you know, you make so many mistakes in the past, and you got to sit there and come to that realization, like, you know, if I keep making the same mistake, that’s the definition of insanity is you keep making the same mistake over and over and over.

And then, you know, I just did this last time, was like, enough’s enough, you know, I realized, it’s not that I don’t care or, you know, love or want to help people, because I do, but if my cup is empty, and there’s nothing to give, and then, you know, I’m not utilizing, you know, what God gave me and you know, what he put me on this earth to do to help and impact others. You know, I gotta make sure my cup is full so that I can overflow. Right? And do what I designed, right?

Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I say that in a loving way to people that you’re lacking integrity when you do that, like, how do you know, I’m being very nice? It’s like, No, you’re lacking integrity with yourself. You know, if you’re being selfish by being unselfish, right, because if you’re not recharging your own battery to help other people, and you’re just depleting your battery, you’re not being at the best to be able to help people. That’s selfish, lacking integrity behavior in a loving, you know, sincere way.

So awesome information Mark much more than I had anticipated. I’m so grateful for you to share your experiences and that our frequencies aligned and we were able to get that resonance of improvement for you and I wish you nothing but future success in all your endeavors got some really exciting business things going on. So I know that it will continue to draw and bring in more more rewards than you probably had anticipated for so thank you so much.

Mark Mariani: My pleasure. And Dr. Rosen, thank you so much from the bottom of my heart for everything that you’ve done for me all the knowledge and, and everything you poured in and in the love you know, it definitely came through and it definitely helped me out. So thank you for being you.

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