Dr. Joel Rosen: All right, hello, everyone and welcome back to another edition of your adrenal fix where we teach exhausted and burnt-out adults the truth about their house so that they can get their health back quickly.

And we’re joined with part with Sean Bean in part two, of unlocking the metabolic bottlenecks. And I was so intrigued with all the information, Shawn said last time that I have plenty of notes to follow up on and ask Shawn a little more in-depth questions. Shawn is committed to helping people find answers to pivotal questions that have not yet been asked. He has an innovative approach that combines conventional with integrative modalities. And due to his own circumstances, he has an innate ability to evaluate a case beyond one dimension, but rather multiple dimensions at once. So Shawn, thank you so much for being here.

Shawn Bean: Once again. Thank you for having me.

Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, I’m really excited, John, so that you brought up a couple of things in full transparency that I’m aware of, but I don’t really incorporate as much as I really like to, and given today’s presentation with people that are stressed, and there are EMFs, and mold and COVID. And perfect storms have inflammatory reactions, I would love to sort of piggyback off from what we stopped, and talked about last time, and maybe you could just tell me or tell the listeners Is that what you’re seeing now, Shawn is just sort of the perfect storm of, of these variables, environmentally overlapping with genetics and creating just such a pandemic, pandemic, if you will, or a tidal wave of people that are dealing with health challenges.

Shawn Bean: In my clinical practice, what we’re seeing is we’re seeing the overlap of the underlying cause is going into the nonalcoholic, fatty liver, nonalcoholic fatty liver, I feel has been an under-diagnosed and I feel a probably from the looking at the organic acid test and other clinical data, you’re probably looking at estimate about 7% of Americans have an underlying nonalcoholic fatty liver that is just not being addressed. And when this starts being addressed, people start getting better.

And the reason I started bringing that up is as you mentioned before, the phenol pathway. What phenols are, are basically alcohol. And what happens is, due to our genetics due to the environment, our bodies are just not breaking these down. It’s stressing phase one and phase two of the liver. That’s why when we look at the organic acid test we used to see high hip uric acid or maybe low hip uric acid. And it really depends upon you know, the way I explained to my clients is listen, the trash man does not come around fast enough to check trash out. Okay, usually your face one splashing your face too slowly.

And in that situation, it usually means that they’re your bile flows all jammed up, or that you’re not your conduit conjugating toxic bile acids because of the small bacterial overgrowth that may have precipitated from the mold and mycotoxins. So when we look at this, we look at the overlying under the overlying cause is these phenols. And phenols had similar similar chemistry to alcohol. So when I’m starting to see the presentation of the nonalcoholic fatty liver, I’m looking at, you know, at the phenols because you’re seeing that just not the body does not the mycotoxins but also your endogenous bacteria in your gut, produce phenols. And we do know that unfortunately, phenol linic acid is one of the most powerful antifungals there is.

So one of the things we have to think about is, as a statement I use listen to the body, it will tell you what’s going on. Now, oftentimes, we have these adaptive shifts in the microbiome, what we think is pathogenic is actually trying to help us out. But unfortunately, due to the world we live in, we’re getting bottlenecked. And sometimes when you see these rises phenols. There’s often an underlying cause of a mycotoxin or of a fungal issue going on with Candida because the body knows it needs to produce phenol Linic acid. So what’s the best way? I’m going to shift the microbiome I’m going to raise up one level to compensate for what’s going on. So the bodies may be trying to help us out. We see this a lot in hydrogen sulfide overgrowths.

That’s why one of my theories is the reason sulfuric fans help. What do sulfuric fans do? They increase glutathione. They help you to reduce, they help you to keep glutathione in its proper form. So we do know that hydrogen sulfide goes into sulfate. And then sulfate goes into. It’s a building block for glutathione. But it’s also a building block for the glycoproteins in your gut to heal the leaky gut. That’s why glutathione can often sometimes heal the leaky gut. That’s why na di now I just found an article showing that NAD reboots the whole microbiome. It was an amazing article that I found, but the underlying mechanism is, is the body’s trying to help us out and we’re going into this kill mode, kill mode kill mode. Now this kill, no kill kill, may have worked 10 years ago, but the whole playing field has changed due to the genetics due to the environmental toxins. This is why you know your sleep by our route or your you know, your mycotoxins are going to increase at a significant level as Dr. Klinghardt presented.

So we have to factor in the other thing that I’m doing now, with a lot of my COVID is I use all kinds of modalities. And one of those modalities is to desensitize the body to the phenols. So there are products out there that are homeopathic that work similarly to LDI low-dosage immunotherapy. So I’m now starting to bring in these Homeopathics to desensitize the immune response to these mycotoxins so by decreasing the immune system response, the body’s not going into these mast cell activations that we’re seeing. And there has been documentation through COVID that the salvage pathway, which is one of the pathways that you use tryptophan to create the NAD is not working right. And this is why exercise is encouraged because there’s a pathway called an ng Nante ANP MPT that is needed to synthesize NAD.

Now, these mycotoxins, what they’re doing is number one, they’re shutting down that pathway for synthesis, then they’re increasing the conversion from NAD to NADH. So you’re just not synthesizing it, but you’re not able to recycle it properly. So these organisms are not, they’re highly intelligent. They’re almost like from another planet, and I would consider the mold a parasite to some degree, because, it changes the environment in order for us to survive. And will, and it knows exactly what systems to get in order to do that.

Dr. Joel Rosen: Sorry. To interrupt. I was gonna say it’s always I always feel like it’s like matrix in the body, you know, in terms of understanding, okay, if we can shut down the recycling system, or we can shut down the communication system, or we can shut down the generation system, then we’re taking out the biggest assets in the body to be able to take us down. And going into that understanding. I guess the question would be, and I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to take your thought away.

With that being said, Shawn, maybe take us through, you did mention the three types of proper analysis that you looked at you look, you mentioned last time with the nonalcoholic fatty liver. But then you also said in that framework, when you look at Palabora, or B three deficiency and traumatic brain injury, that’s when you start to look at and reverse engineer, the microbiome, the endocrine system, the nutritional deficiencies, the environmental toxins, the brain. So maybe let’s build on what we talked about last time and explain how the B three in the TBI comes into play with traumatic brain injury.

Shawn Bean: What happens is the body will shift when the body’s going into an inflammatory state on the organic acid test, you’ll see the five h i A and the Quinn ratio start to shift. When that starts to shift that’s moving, that’s taking your tryptophan and moving it into the potential NAD pathway to try to help out. So that’s an indication that hey, your body’s under oxidative stress on trying to move and get NAD there. Now over time, what happens is the second pathway that kicks in is the lactic acid pathway.

The lactic acid pathway is often the backup system for when the NAD may get exhausted. And then what happens is, as that pathway stays on track, you’ll go into NAD deficiency. Oftentimes we’re starting to see from looking at past organic acid tests, you’re starting to see a shift from the five H going low to five h is going high. And that’s usually an indication of your NAD systems are exhausted. Now you’re going into mast cell response. I’ve seen it multiple times. And that’s very common in autistic kids because it looks like an MA, it looks like a slow Mao because you’ll see, you know unless they’re doing five HTP, which I haven’t seen in a lot of my clients do, but we’re seeing that jump and serotonin and that drop. And what’s happening there is your body is no longer getting any getting NAD and I feel that the phenols and also the micro, it’s very common people that have mycotoxins that have triggered into the coat mast cell activation because we do know that environmental exposures and mycotoxins can trigger that that mass activation. And when that happens, we see that pattern.

And this is where, when your NAD is really, really low, this is where sometimes looking on like a Dutch test to see where the methylation panel is, okay? When you’re looking on the Dutch test, oftentimes, we’ll see on a mechanism of mold, you’ll see high methylation, the reason being is what’s the way you get methylation down. And indeed, okay, use nice cinnamon and ice the burners off. So I’m seeing starting to see that correlation with the organic acid test.

And then you’ll see the DHA level often on the high side. And then you’ll see the DHEAs on the low side. That’s usually an indication of a sulfation pathway, which is salt to a one. So up to a one also backs into the glucuronidation pathway. So this goes back into the phenol sulfotransferase pathway. And when you start to see that happen, that’s where I tend to use calcium for the glucose rate. The calcium, group rate works great because the classroom glucose rate takes the calcium group rate as a backup system for the glutathione system. Because a lot of people have not done a lot of good on glutathione. I’ll use Casselman glue great to give it a break. And the calcium glue. Great.

What it does is it helps to reduce the phenols. It helps reduce those salicylates and helps to reduce the histamines, it helps to reduce a lot of the other toxins, even glyphosates. happen, then that glutathione can take a break, we get stuff caught up, and then go then they can provide then they can go forward with the glutathione.

Dr. Joel Rosen: All right, so So I mean, from the way you describe it. And from what I know, it really is sort of like we said that matrix when the body’s under siege, it has all these different pathways that are being upregulated or downregulated, depending on what the specific microorganism is or what the environmental trigger is combined with what the genetic makeup looks like. And basically, I always say it’s kind of like a Plinko board where you drop the Plinko.

And then it depends on where it goes down. Right. So so as far as that being said, You did mention it in the last conversation we had, which I thought was interesting. And I always say it’s Bob Miller who is a big mentor of mine. And he says how we learned everything we really need to know in Goldilocks and the Three Bears where you don’t want to have too much of something and you don’t want to have too little of something, you really want to be living in that bell-shaped curve.

And you mentioned with a patient of yours that they were too alkaline, and the body wanted to be acidic. And I would suppose that certain reactions occur at certain pH levels. And if you’re not getting into that fine line balance between Goldilocks and the Three Bears zone, then your body’s not optimally functioning. So I guess the question I’m asking you here is, how do we play that fine line, especially as a practitioner knowing Okay, well, I got to give my glutathione on a break, but at the same time, I need it. And that’s just one example, I guess, of how you as the practitioner, determine what the perfect pulsing or the perfect being able to stay at that top of the bell-shaped curve looks like.

Shawn Bean: When you’re trying to optimize somebody can get really, really complex because myself and about three other practitioners were doing glutathione injections during the wintertime, and we were doing amazing. Okay, then for whatever reason, summertime started to come. And then we started to have reactions to it. Well, what we figured, and we couldn’t stand to be out of the sun, what we finally determined, or what I figured out was, we were lacking NAD. Because what happens is the sunlight was used, we didn’t have enough sunlight, so we didn’t have, we’re storing our NAD. Now, what happens when we’re going out into the sun, we’re getting reactions very similar to histamine response, or what appears to be an adrenal insufficiency.

So what we did was we stopped the glutathione, we added in an MN and we noticed that through muscle testing and through different, you know, experimentations, that we could perceive the glutathione, even though everything else was, you know, non-changed. So just the indication of the Sun was enough to throw her body off. But we were able to under-reduce them, we were able to figure out the mechanism of control. And that’s still to this day, and all of us have suspected to have COVID.

Dr. Joel Rosen: Right, so So do you think that that was probably in part because of the sun exposure and sulfation and increasing your endogenous production? So yeah, just a quick question, because I have a patient that I’m really struggling with. And I didn’t intend on doing this on our podcast. But I do look at a lot of the blueprint of genetics. And we do look at it as sort of the lay of the land. And then obviously, looking at the metabolic pathways and how the genes are expressing but basically, the genetics is a map and take me through if someone is doing too much NAD, what side of the valley, where you’re doing too much where they’re just exhausted that weight loss resistance, they’re not moving the needle. What do you think’s happening there, when you swing the pendulum too much on on the side of NAD, too much going on there.

Shawn Bean: And AMD, if you’re an over methylator, people with Na do very well, there is a technique that they utilize adding in methyl groups. If people are taking an mn, and they’re doing well and then have negative responses, that usually means that they need a little methyl support. So using things like TMG, methyl folate, Sammy, etc, could be enough just to keep them going in the right direction. And that’s a technique that has been noted for many years, even since 2016. Because that’s why NAD is nice cinnamon is used in schizophrenics because usually, schizophrenics are over-methylated.

Dr. Joel Rosen: Right? And explain to the listener, because I always have a tough time, maybe it’s a little bit of my dyslexia as well, in terms of determining depending on who the point of reference is what over methylation means, right? So you have too many methyl groups on the highway and they’re not being used, or you’re, you’re running down the transsulfuration pathway, and your homocysteine is too low. I mean, explain sort of what an over-methylation looks like, because I don’t like that term too much anymore. And more than I like this regulated methylation, right, but it’s really hard to identify.

Shawn Bean: That’s why I like to, I think the Dutch test does a good indicator of that, it gives you at least somewhat of an idea.

Dr. Joel Rosen: with phase two or with?

Shawn Bean: With the methylation, because, you know, your estrogens have to be properly methylated.

Dr. Joel Rosen: So if this if the ratio is very low, and it looks like it’s in the weak range, that person would be an under methylator, is what you’re saying?

Shawn Bean: Yeah, and normally with under meth laters I would do is I would really add extreme caution. And specifically when like niacin, because they will, you know, people might feel good or nice, and then all sudden they feel like crap. That’s because they just used up their mental stores.

Dr. Joel Rosen: Right, right. But if they’re getting it in a NN or NMS, or they’re actually getting NAD injections, and it’s not necessarily niacin on its own, is it still chopping up all those methyl groups?

Shawn Bean: There’s a possibility for that because there’s, there’s camp thought out there that too much NAD can take Bigger cancer cells, I would have to talk to Dr. Mudiay. About that. Because a lot of people’s diets and stuff are going to be getting enough from their diet for the general population. It’s when you start messing and trying to balance everything out and trying to be healthy. You know, what’s the saying Help to secure this, what I’m seeing is the healthiest people are the sickest people.

That’s because they’re always trying to do in this diet and that diet and this diet. And by doing so they’re unintentionally throwing their body out of balance, you know, because I’m going to do this diet or carnivore diet and like, you can do a carnivore diet, but I wouldn’t do it any longer than four weeks tops. Okay, use an elimination diet, or do you have a person who’s doing a carnivore diet? And next thing, you know, you know, they’re, they were choline-deficient, or their gallbladder wasn’t working, right? Or that they didn’t have any lipase. So they end up clogging up their gallbladder and their liver because they’re doing this high-fat diet or ketogenic diet with the ticked-up liver.

Dr. Joel Rosen: You know, I’m so so do you find then that there’s a big swing, in that sense, I’ve kind of get where you’re going. And when Dr. Lynch talked about, if someone has too many methyl groups on you can swing them pretty quickly and give them nice, but then at the same time, if you give them too much nice, you got to bring in more methyl groups and kind of the same thing with implementing, like, a carnivore diet, you go from one extreme to the next, and they’re never really sitting at the top of the bell-shaped curve? Or is that kind of what you’re seeing happening?

Shawn Bean: Yeah, pretty much. I mean, generally, for an ad, it’s relatively safe. For the most part, it’s when people start, you know, that’s why oftentimes, I may start people off with like, nice in a mind, or have them take nm N, and maybe take a two to one ratio of nm N, with like TMG, just as a safety mechanism, right, then, you know, then maybe the other thing that I’ve learned is, is you have to do things in order. Because if you have some, you know, a lot of the formulas now have sirtuins added to it, which are the, you know, the resveratrol, with the TMG. With an M, it’s like, there are just too many variables going on in there.

Dr. Joel Rosen: I always say that supplement companies get greedy, right? They try to do too many things in one supplement, and the body doesn’t work that way.

Shawn Bean: No, it doesn’t. And you know, what, what works for one person doesn’t work for another one. You know, that’s why when I make my recommendations, it’s you’re not taking a B complex, all individualize. You know, I’ll start off with like, B to at high dosages, you know, 400 milligrams of b two, and maybe 10 milligrams of like, riboflavin, high phosphate?

Because there’s a big debate about that, you know, and I’m beginning to wonder if for whatever reason, there are more transport issues, which is riboflavin transport proficiency, that starting to come about? Because why are we seeing all these riboflavin deficiencies in the organic acids almost across the board? You know, the same way with carnitine, we’re seeing carnitine across the board deficient?

Dr. Joel Rosen: You know, I do see that a lot to the SLC gene in that area. So So real quick, then as far as one of the things I really liked, as you mentioned, the four tests that you typically do, if necessary, and I love the idea, you kind of mentioned how you want to get out of the idea of over-testing. But then at the same time, you did mention the concept of knowing what where you’re digging into, and yet you’re not just digging into a guess a graveyard, but like, where there’s cement all laid down. So getting a lay of the land.

And you mentioned the Omega quant the oat test, the Dutch test and my Michael labs, and the Omega quant test with how important that is with Lou trains and PG one and PG to PG three and maybe kind of break that down for Shawn because I’d love to hear your your expertise on that.

Shawn Bean: When you’re starting to look at the Omega Quan what it does is it gives you a cellular indication of where your Omegas are going. And what happens is we’re starting to see a pile up in the DHA because when you take in a supplement that’s a two-to-one ratio of EPA to DHA. You’re expected to see that you’re expecting Good to see that ratio in your red blood cells. So you suspect, I mean, so what happens is, is due to the cell danger response, or you know, if you check your genetics, it might be dancin’, PAMPs, the DHA is piling up, and it’s actually causing no mitochondrial dysfunction.

So one of the additions to the EPA, AAA ratio I added in, I added my own EPA to DHA ratio. Because if you’re, if you look at a Mayor Quan, you should see a one-to-one ratio, you’re taking cod liver oil. The problem is, we’re seeing five times the amount of DHA versus EPA in the cell, right?

Dr. Joel Rosen: Because the Omega index is only looking at the two together, correct?

Shawn Bean: But it’s looking is looking at the ALA to EPA, the DHA, and the next step down from because what happens is DHA can what we call retro convert, DHA can actually retro convert back into EPA. The mechanism by which that’s done is still undetermined. I can’t find it. I do think it’s based on potential clinical trials. And we do know that the phenols and Leuco trains have a direct relationship.

That’s why when you look, oftentimes, when you’re ALA is always I’ve seen probably 1000 Omega clients, and out of that 1000, probably less than 5% of them actually had an ALA normal, and then it comes down. Because what happens is the ALA is known as a parental ESA, it gives birth to EPA DHA. But I always joke with my clients, it looks like sleep, it looks like cellular incest. It’s like the children, there are more children than there are parents. But if you look at the LMA, which is the Omega six, it starts at a high ratio and comes down. That’s how nature is supposed to be. But the ALA, for what apparent reason is most like is pretty much all deficient. In the majority of the cases, I think that has to do with an inflammatory response. It’s hyper-converting.

Dr. Joel Rosen: Gotcha. So when you’re doing the plus tests that are you doing the comp, the complete test, or.

Shawn Bean: I’m just doing the American comp complete, the complete.

Dr. Joel Rosen: Okay, so the for those that might not know what it is, it’s a blood spot test. And you can just have that mailed to your home. And it’s really a price effect of $100. And you’re looking at your Omega three index, you’re looking at your Omega three to six to three index. So you’re looking that’s what you’re talking about when you when you’re looking at that are you making up your own references based on the complete Omega profile that you get with the complete because I think you have over 24 Omega three, six, and saturated model saturated, unsaturated sick. So yeah, give me an idea of what you’re doing there.

Shawn Bean: What I did was I cross-referenced over five or 600 different lab clients, and I did the Omega quant the organic acid test, and the Dutch test. And what I did was by looking at the Omega quant I foreshadowed what was going to be on the other test. And the reason was as you could see when the saturated fats hit a certain mark that the cell membranes stiffened up as a protective mechanism. And when it starts to stiffen up, that usually means it’s trying to protect itself from something. So once it hits a certain like 30, you know on the Mega quant, and usually when it’s over 37% that usually tells me that you’re dealing with some type of like environment, more like a mycotoxin or line versus a heavy metal.

Dr. Joel Rosen: What was 37% Sorry, I missed what that was.

Shawn Bean: When you look at the sack. When you look at the total saturated fat on the inmate your client wants to get over 37 cell membranes stiffening up, okay? maxims because the body pool saturated fats into stiffness cell membranes so it doesn’t want anything else to come in. That’s right, then what happens is that usually indicates that there could be a potential mycotoxin or line I don’t really see in heavy metals as much. Okay, I’ve I don’t see that. So and then what happens is, is people are coming in and it’s like they have the beginnings of diabetes. By using the omega one you can foreshadow the beginning of diabetes, probably five to 10 years ahead of the game.

Dr. Joel Rosen: Because what Paul Medic said, or you’re saying is the PA medic?

Shawn Bean: Yeah, exactly. Because medic acid is usually an indication of the severity of insulin resistance at the cellular level within the liver. Because you could have liver insulin resistance, you can have muscle insulin resistance, this is usually an indication of the liver. And that usually tells me that, hey, like, I have documentation showing how the person’s palmitic acid was, like, say, 22.

And by doing what we did, you could see the drop in the fire, you could see the drop in one scene, you can see the dropping insulin resistance on the panels, and you can see the drop from 22%, back down to 19%. So that told me that their person was going in the right direction, their symptoms were the same, and their symptoms were corresponding to the data. Because correlation doesn’t mean cause causation doesn’t mean correlation. Right?

So at least we have tracking mechanisms to know. And then it’s like, Hey, by the way, it’s like, yeah, you’re doing much better, you know, because you read you should retest that probably once every four to six months, because what happens is, is depending upon the person’s genetics, if it’s FAA DS, one FA DS two, they may be hyper converters to arachidonic acid from the GLA, for example.

So in that situation, you might want to use things to like there’s there’s a five locks and there’s two Cox and five locks. Those are the two main things five locks using works five locks will knock off the bike locks will not knock off the local trains that are actually stimulated by the phenols phenols actually stimulate five la phenols actually inhibit the Bible. They impair the five locks pathway. And the five locks pathway is directly linked to histamine responses. And that’s why a lot of people that I work with, they may not do good on like, Claritin, Zyrtec but they’ll do good in Mana class. Which would be a mono class would be.

Dr. Joel Rosen: what’s the singular? Not?

Shawn Bean: Yeah, singular. It has to be prescribed singularly, right? Because they don’t have a reaction to the histamines to have a reaction to the local trains.

Dr. Joel Rosen: Right. I want you to explain that because I think that’s a big part for a lot of people that have tried Benadryl and Zyrtec and they have these major issues. And I love the way you’ve made these connections, especially if you’re doing my mycotoxin lab and you’re not doing a urine organic acid or urine mycotoxin test. And you can actually see that there’s an IGE reaction. And you know that there’s a mast cell thing versus an immune reaction. But then they go ahead and they do all these histamine-based things and it doesn’t work. So kind of explain how the local trains come into play and all of that.

Shawn Bean: when you have oftentimes when you have an elevated arachidonic acid to BPA ratio, that can also trigger that’s an indication of local trains. Because what happens is, people are using EPA, which is fine to some people, but they can’t tolerate that. But another way that you can lower the arachidonic EPA ratio is to go after local trains use the singularity use the five locks inhibitors, that’s what Botswana is good for.

Frankincense, that’s a five-lox inhibitor, that’s my go-to five you know Boswellia frankincense is my go-to for five locks. And when you go for the five locks, what that does is that will lower the arachidonic acid to EP ratio without you even having to take fish oils. Or if you’re going to take an official or what I’ll use is I’ll use an algae-based one.

There’s an algae-based one out there’s algae-based ones out there that are just EPA alone the problem is a lot of these doctors are given cod liver oil. Okay, if you get cod liver oil, that’s why I case I work on autistic. I’ll check their Omega Quan. Next thing you know, you’ll see that cut because they’re taking cod liver oil, their DHA ratio is 10 times higher than the EPA ratio, which isn’t right, and that usually indicates the cell danger response.

So what I do is I pull them off the cod liver oil I work on draining out you know raising up the EPA whether, through an in flight, you know taking care of the five locks pathway or doing the five locks pathway combination from the algae. And within three weeks you got this autistic kid who was a holy terror and is now an angel. Because the fact is you removed the problem in the first place. And it’s not the practitioner’s fault, because they were just doing what they’re supposed to do.

It’s because of what’s happening. Because of all these environmental toxins, these gene expressions, these pathways are just not working as they should be. Right? You know, and that’s why I’m trying to understand with other practitioners, these negative feedback loops, it’s like, how can we get that EPA to rep any of that DHA to retro convert? Okay, because when DHA when DHA piles up, that’s also a potential sign of cellular hypothyroidism. We see that a lot too.

Dr. Joel Rosen: Did you ever read the PEO solution with Brian Peskind book?

Shawn Bean: Right? That’s the that’s kind of like the methodology that I come off of him. And also, participant Kane. Dr. Participant, Kane is like the lipid queen. I was a patient of hers a long time ago. And that was what turned me around the fastest by doing the PC IVs and the glutathione. And her work, because back then she was taking care of Oxford’s, she was taking care of all these imbalances that we didn’t know about. But she knew by addressing these pathways, maybe at the time, she didn’t know what they were, but she was ahead of the game 30 years ago, you know, right?

Dr. Joel Rosen: So Okay, curious, because I liked what you said on the last visit, you always want to know what really worked well for you. So we can understand. And we also want to know what really didn’t work well for you so we can understand and really control expectations. I really liked that as a practitioner, like, Look, Mrs. Jones, we don’t have this isn’t an exact science, we can just estimate what’s going on based on your symptoms based on the genetic maps based on the expressions based on these metabolic pathways.

And what if this goes right, this is what we will feel. But if it goes wrong, not wrong, but if it doesn’t play the way we want it, this is what will feel and that’s great information. Because as you said, I’m more concerned about what I don’t see than what I do see, I guess the question and again, I’m stealing your brain here for some of my patients, and maybe some of the people listening will understand. I have a patient who she, she did. Like it was a magic wand when she took a Cox Two inhibitor.

And she said it was amazing for her knees. It was so great. I gave her a CBD CBN-type mix. And it was like the worst thing ever. So I don’t know, like I’m trying to figure out okay, what’s going on? Like, this is a good case study for people to understand. I would have expected that would have been the same thing as the Cox two. But because there are complicated pathways and genetics and environmental triggers, how would the metabolic renegade Shawn Enders look at this in this way?

Shawn Bean: Yeah. When she had these reactions, were they neurological?

Dr. Joel Rosen: Did she go it was like she couldn’t sleep and it was just like an out-of-body experience.

Shawn Bean: Okay, so she had a deep she had slight depersonalization that you could identify as a slight depersonalization issue, is that correct? Yeah, that’s correct. Okay. What happens in some situations is is it’s not the sometimes inflammation to the body, I found this out non case, sometimes the inflammation in the body makes the person the way they should be. But when you start to reduce that inflammation, it makes its way they shouldn’t be okay. And oftentimes what I see is that CBD works on the dopamine receptors. So what happens is, that’s why it’s about depersonalization.

What happens is, is, CBD can if I take CBD oil, it lowers my, I become antibiotic, I become out of body out of mind, that’s how I know, I feel like I’m existing in space and time, no pleasure, no joy. And, you know, with low dopamine you can have, you know, insomnia as a result. So in those situations, what may have happened was is the body may need some inflammation, but too much inflammation can go the other way. And also using CBD can also affect the dopamine receptors. So if she is a person who’s more higher dopa ergic And then you drop that down, then she’s going to be more the endodontic with the depersonalization issues going on. Does that make sense? Right?

Dr. Joel Rosen: It does. But then where does the Cox two fit in where it was like a magic wand in that pathway? There? Because I know like, I mean, that’s why I like talking about this area because I think fattier acids and how important they are not just inflammation, but in, in being able to make your hormones flow, your bio support your nerve function.

I think there’s a lot that we don’t understand just yet. And it’s amazing to talk about this with someone who’s made these, these connections, and especially when they know that, hey, if this thing helped you that I want to do more of that, or if this thing didn’t help you, I want to understand what that is.

Shawn Bean: Yeah, it just sounds to me like that. One part was helping with the immune system. And then when you added the CBD, it may affect another part of the immune system that we’re just maybe unaware of because that works on CBD works on something similar that what caffeine does, it inhibits the one enzyme for such an A, I can’t think of it, but it’s an inhibitor, you Denison works on the Denison Dennison. So, in her chemistry, that pathway got me got affected. So as you can see, there are so many out branches as possibilities. And we can only go on with what her clinical presentation was.

Dr. Joel Rosen: And that it’s a good point for people that may be thinking that this is complex stuff. And it’s complex stuff for the practitioners to want to help you and understand that. There’s pathways there’s, there’s nutrients, there’s deficiencies, there’s impressions, there’s mindsets. And all of these have a lot to do with the outcome that we’re going to be implementing and, and trying to give you some support with Shawn also, the other thing I wanted to talk to you about was, you mentioned GABA and neurotransmitters and then there’s dopamine and acetylcholine. So if we’re talking about inflammation, we’re talking about the phenol sulfur pathways, we’re talking about controlling we’re talking about mold, we’re talking about EMFs.

I guess the question is, where do the neurotransmitter imbalances and emphasis come into play? Because a lot of people will say, well, I need to do the neurotransmitter test, I need to take these. I’m taking these, especially pharmaceuticals like these SSRIs, or the SNRIs. Or, these GABA-supporting medications, which we know can really mess someone up if they’re in the wrong arena. And they’re doing it for so long. How do you approach that? I mean, what we’re not treating, quote-unquote, where we’re helping support function through nutrition, but how do we look at it?

Shawn Bean: In those situations, there has to be communication between you and the psychologist because I wrote letters to a psychiatrist and said, Listen, I just want to let you know the NP worked with your patient, we’re going to be working on balancing the hormones, the adrenals. So there may be some changes in medicines, such as, hey, we’re going to, you know, we may get his dopamine levels going naturally, so he may need to reduce the dosages. So there has to be communication.

First of all, they may or may not be open to that, but I always, with my recommendations, I always said, listen, we’re gonna be working on your testosterone level, okay, when we start working on your testosterone level, this may affect your dopamine receptors. So it may make you more dopaminergic. Now, because of the fact that you’ve already got not enough dopamine, but then you also lack serotonin. You know, we may have to work on the balance, but this is what, you know, this is what I recommend you do if this happens, and please get in contact that you need, maybe lower your dosages.

Because by turning on the dopamine receptors, we’re going to make that medicine work better. Okay. And this is what to inspect. So this comes from number one years of experience. It comes from the interaction between the neuroendocrine-immune system, the gut, I mean, just working on the gut alone, I mean, you start using plant term 299 and you start using l Rhamnosus. You start using our router, right? They all impact door transmitters. So if a person is on drugs or anything the clinician needs to research and be aware of hey, given l router I know BioGaia hasn’t a huge effect on guess what oxytocin? Now oxytocin affects a huge array of neurotransmitters. So you’re on this type of medicine, this type of medicine, you know, people come in with six different types of site No, six meds you need to know the internet options you need to know.

Dr. Joel Rosen: Would you say I mean, those are obviously I always use the analogy, Shawn? It’s like I’m a golf pro. And I would have just rather you came in and never swung the club before then learning how to swing as terribly as you have. Because now I not only have to unlearn what you learned wrong, I now have to teach you what you should have learned from the beginning. Would you agree with that statement in terms I?

Shawn Bean: I agree, when people come in me clean slate, they’re the easiest ones to work with. It’s when they come on with these nutraceutical or pharmaceutical nightmares, you know, from other practitioners that they’re on 50 different things in combination with 13 different drugs. It’s like you gotta be on your game, you’ve got to be research.

Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, and one thing I love that you said, I think it needs to be repeated that a lot of practitioners, let alone patients don’t understand is your body’s incredibly intelligent. And it’s doing what it should be doing in the environment and the information and the computer programs that have been run, and don’t automatically think that you’re smarter than the body, and you need to shut that program down, or you need to run a different program, you need to understand which program is being run, you mentioned that with inflammation, where the body’s creating inflammation for a purpose for a cell danger response.

And the best way I use the example is with thyroid function. If the thyroid is an oxygen sensor to the cell, and oxygen isn’t moving effectively, then your body is going to do what it can to put our eggs to other it decreases your pituitary output, decrease the glandular output, decrease the conversion, increase the reverse T three make antibodies. But we’re so fascinated with oh my gosh, this is broken. Let’s fix this. And it’s not broken. So I guess it’s sort of Aikido in the art of using your body effectively, I guess, how? How do you given what we’ve just mentioned with having to cross reference all these medications, interactions, microbial impacts? How do you How on earth do we get people better?

Shawn Bean: You just kind of have to start at the top of the cascade to see who’s screaming the loudest once you know who’s screaming the loudest and once you know, hey, I’m like, did you take time? methylfolate? Yes. What kind of response got oh, god I made? It made me crazy. Okay, all right, that it’s pushing your catecholamines too hard. So, therefore, you know, think about adrenal insufficiency. Once you correct the adrenal insufficiency, then you can go ahead and push the, you know, they go push things a little harder.

But again, adrenal insufficiency is just a symptom of a deeper cause, you know, how many times have we worked on adrenals? It backfire when he when the problem the real problem was the mitochondria because mitochondria produce cortisol in this, you know, cortisol producing the cytosol, the final country, and the adrenal glands. We we’ve been misled to think. So you know, a lot of my clients have now been on adrenal supplements, and they fail, I’m going into the mitochondrial support, the NAD the CO q 10. This is where I like to have the genetics to see where you know, and Q one is where the naps are, I’m going to actually talk to Bob, because we’ve, we’re going to try to reroute the pathway and get the salvage pathway on there and get different pathways in regard to the NAD pathway deeper and how to interlock with the nitric oxide pathway.

Dr. Joel Rosen: And enter and I would say also, too, with the, with the paps and what you were mentioning earlier, too, because I don’t think he looks at that as much either with the sulphonyl transfer ace and that it’s in there, but I don’t know how much they’re integrating it. And from my perspective, I’m a big, you know, I’m a big copper availability fan, and I think you don’t pass go until you understand how well you’re respiring at the cellular level effectively, and if you’re not, you’re creating exhaust, and that to me come comes really really quickly as well. But back to what you were saying with the NAD pathways maybe I mean I think I’m seeing that with a lot of people is that just so under-stressed and under-supplied with energy that they’re having to over-create that NAD production and then that creates so many issues?

Shawn Bean: Yeah. So I think you know, I think the NAD pathway I think the NAD pathway is highly overlooked.

Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, I mean, well, we I always assume guilty until proven otherwise, where you sort of look at like that tryptophan steal. I look at it as a NAD steal. Right, or you have an NADPH steal and the environment. Stress, chemicals EMFs dopamine, sulfates, exhaust fumes, molds, iron dysregulation, and hist means mass sells molds, all of those things are going to deplete you of your NADPH, which ultimately needs NAD to be able to function ran. And yeah, so yeah, we went down a lot of different rabbit holes.

One of the questions I did want to ask you though, was about the sex hormone binding globulin, which I noticed is on a left field. You mentioned that when you’re 10 hippuric is high. On the old test. You always mentioned, hey, you know what, let me guess your SHBG or your sex hormone binding globulin is high as well. So maybe explain how you came up with that correlation.

Shawn Bean: Um, I’ve been monitoring my SSB G for probably about 20 years. And when I got hit with mold, again, it was mold that did it. I think mold has a direct impact but I also genetically, also have the gene for sh VG two, okay. This means that it’s gonna be more likely, my sh VG was 16 ounces 27. The other factor was the other factor was also protein synthesis was off. The mycotoxin I discovered was done, which is known as a bomba, toxin, a vomit toxin that causes protein deficiency, alters protein synthesis in the GI tract, it mimics celiac. So what I started doing was, as I started taking a protein that’s called perfect amino.

That’s a pre-digested protein that does not cause any kind of nitrogen issues. I use it in dialysis cases all the time, five grams equivalent to about 30 grams of whey protein minus the metabolic ash. So I started doing that outside my fasted window, I think the combination between the supporting the glutathione pathway supporting the excess of supporting the excess protein, because as HPG rises and people that have anorexia, it also happens in regards to nonalcoholic fatty liver, it a phase two pathway. So it does a lot, but it was the combination between the two, the excess protein with the glutathione, I think brought it back down in the play, because you’re supporting that phase one, phase two, you know, getting rid of that nonalcoholic fatty liver.

Dr. Joel Rosen: Right? Yeah. And do you I mean, just as an aside, it was the excess protein from ash or was the excess protein from arginine with uncoupled nitric oxide or do you know?

Shawn Bean: It was just from malabsorption from the seat of small, you know, the mycotoxins hitting the small bacterial overgrowth with the bile flow, causing the specific specifically I went into the research to look at them. What I did was I broke down the mycotoxins I looked at the clinical research on each of the mycotoxins and learn their mechanisms like Don induces glute five transport issues, which causes fructose intolerance. So anybody that has done I pull their fructose down. And that hasn’t been helping out great. Because most people were done and vomited toxins actually mimic a lot of the celiacs. Because of the cross-reactivities.

Dr. Joel Rosen: They see really high uric acid, but those patients.

Shawn Bean: No, don’t see real high uric acid levels at all.

Dr. Joel Rosen: Interesting. Well, listen, I mean, I could go on and on with this, but I know it got deep quickly. And I appreciate your time, I definitely would love to be able to send you one of my patient’s results because I’m having a bit of a tough time with her. But it’s always great. You mentioned in your bio, even when you don’t know the answers to something, you’ll find the answers because they’re there. And you’ll lean on other people. So I appreciate what they let you do.

I’ll put all the links to your how-to get in touch with you. But for the people that are listening now what’s the best way to find you, Shawn, and where you’re at the best way for people?

Shawn Bean: Find me is they can email me at matrix health well@gmail.com websites currently in the process of getting revamped so they go to the website, they hit the info, it won’t get to me so they can have me direct contact me via my email matrix healthwell@gmail.com. And then as my website gets up, I’ll let people know about that. They can find me on Facebook under my name. Because I’m posting a lot of interesting information there.

Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, and last time you did share with us some really great information in terms of starting simple, look at your environment, get good healthy water, get good healthy food, get good healthy air, get good, healthy thoughts.

I really liked that. You talked about having a community and making sure that you’re getting support. I guess for the Shawn being what you wish you would have known now that you would have known then that could have helped you a lot quicker, faster further, what would you have told your younger self?

Shawn Bean: Really, it probably would have been number one, focus on more the microbiome focus on more, you know, the liver pathways. Also, the biggest one that I’m starting with coming to a conclusion is the vagus nerve. The vagus nerve is huge, but also we know the biggest nerve innervates, the GI tract, the GI vates, Inductrix, and the vagus nerve through a bi-directional pathway. So oftentimes, you can regulate the biggest nerve through using butyrate. By using and regulating the microbiome. I just found an article that actually reboots the whole GI tract itself. I’ll send that over to you. It’s an amazing product. So now by knowing that information, I can see the patterns and still simple tests on the biome. And know exactly Hey, you have low Akkermansia, Bifidobacterium, and lactobacillus, but you also have high levels of BillyOh, Wadsworth, u, and d fibro. Well, guess what? That falls right into your pattern of NAD.

Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, so I’ve seen that before, actually. And with Interpretive Guide, they only have something on those Firmicutes when they’re Ella range. And that’s it. But awesome information, Shawn, I definitely will post the links to contact you. And we’d love to somewhere down the road when we meet again to pick your brain, see what’s new and share resources along the way. So thank you so much for what you do.

Shawn Bean: All right. Thank you, Joe.

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