Episode 120- How’s The War Going?
Also Available OnPodcast TranscriptGun Lawyer Episode 120

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

firearm, law, gun, gun rights, permit, carry, rights, issued, fighting, marijuana, restrictions, war, gun laws, judges, court, anti, lawyer, battle, case, gun owners

SPEAKERS

Evan Nappen, Speaker 3

Evan Nappen 00:22

I’m Evan Nappen, and welcome to Gun Lawyer. I’ve been thinking about current events and guns, and I kind of realized that there is a really good analogy. There’s really a war on us. A war on gun owners. A war on our rights. A war on guns. And this war is fascinating to see because I have news for you, we are actually winning the war. The war isn’t won yet, that’s for sure. But we are winning battle after battle. And it is really a fascinating time to be alive when talking about and thinking about gun rights. Because if you think about the struggle that we’ve had as gun owners through the years, and I’ve been practicing gun law for over 35 years. When I started, we didn’t have any kind of Second Amendment case law that we could use. We were always the most unbelievable of underdogs. Granted, a war was going on there, but it didn’t have the same intensity. Because as we fought hard for our rights, the antis ended up getting major billionaires supporting their causes and setting up all kinds of well-funded, left-wing, anti-gun groups and pursuing strategies and getting basically the Democrats for the most part to make this issue a part of their platform and selling them on pushing gun laws and the seizing of our gun rights. The destruction of us and our gun rights is good politics for them.

Evan Nappen 02:38

So, we’ve been fighting this battle, and it really is a war as a multitude of battles on a multitude of fronts. I realize what my position is here, and yes, I’m fighting these gun laws. I’m on the front lines, many times, fighting the gun laws and defending law-abiding citizens from being turned into criminals. It’s similar and is important, just like our sponsor, the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs has been there defending gun owners in New Jersey for years and years. You need to join the Association. You need to protect yourself and be part of the movement and be part of these forces that are fighting on your side. But I realized that through this battle, and as we’re making this progress, it’s actually through the war of multiple, multiple battles, that what I primarily try to do is make sure that as we fight and win these battles, that you, the listener, do not become a casualty in the war.

Evan Nappen 03:55

We’re going to win this war. We’re winning it battle by battle now. We’re going to win it. But in the process of fighting to win, I want to see as few of you become a casualty of the war on our Second Amendment rights. So, what Gun Lawyer is really about is helping you not become a casualty in the war on our rights, and in fact, be able to protect yourself and survive this. So that when we have our ultimate victory, you are there to celebrate it and exercise your rights like never before, and therefore Page – 2 – of 8

have them preserved for future generations. That’s really what wars do, isn’t it? Especially when you win them. You’re preserving that way of life, that culture, that freedom, and those liberties for yourself and future generations. It’s really what we’re in.

Evan Nappen 04:58

So, if you look at the state of the war is now on our rights, you see that we had a tremendous victory with the Bruen decision. Actually, a trifecta of victories from Heller to McDonald, and to Bruen. Creating what has become our defense system, our Iron Dome, if you will, against our enemies. In response to our Iron Dome being created of the Second Amendment and Constitutional rights, our enemies have decided to launch mega amounts of missiles at us. Just launch rocket after rocket after rocket. Because after Bruen, particularly, we’ve seen an enormous increase in anti-gun laws being passed. Yet, just like a great Patriot missile system, we keep knocking out their missiles and their rockets. They fire at us, and we blow them away. We are blowing them away in such greater volume than we ever had, and that is something that makes me cheer. Because as I sit back, I see gun laws falling, case law, courts deciding our way. As we’re fighting, gaining ground, more ground, just like in a war, it is incredibly encouraging. In a very weird way, but true. These are glorious times. They’re glorious times because we’re fighting battle after battle that is so worth it.

Evan Nappen 07:03

And what’s really funny is if you think about the anti-gun strategy, they’re fools. They really are fools. Because of their multiple launches of law after law that they’re passing, like petulant children, like just, you know, cannot wrap their mind around and accept that, yes, we have these rights. We have the right to defend ourselves. We have a right to carry. We have a right to have a firearm. We have these rights. They can’t stand it, and their response is bad gun law after bad gun law after bad gun law launching and what do we do? We fight back, and we get court victory after court victory in the fight. And you know what’s really funny is that each one of these issues as we get the case law built and we have ultimately, a conservative Supreme Court now, that will eventually get many of these issues. Our ability to build an impenetrable system for our rights, through the Supreme Court, is being handed to us by the aggressive war on our rights by the anti-gunners.

Evan Nappen 08:19

So, it’s ironic as well, because their onslaught of magazine bans, assault weapon bans, pistol brace bans, and trying to gut concealed carry by enormous numbers of insane sensitive places. Every strategy they can come up with. Registration and multiple disqualifiers to just try to chip away at individuals. Every one of them is making caselaw, and we’re winning battle after battle. All of this is heading eventually to the conservative (United States ) Supreme Court. We will end up with such a body of case law, affirming our rights, that it’s going to be great for future generations. We’re going to, thanks to the anti-gunners making all these moves now, we can establish strength to the Second Amendment, like never before. And we’re doing it now. So, when you hear about all this stuff, these bad laws, these idiots, the crap that they pass, make sure you tell yourself, but wait a minute. There’s actually a positive side to this. The positive side is that it’s now a chance, the best chance, to destroy their efforts, destroy those missiles launched at us, and to win this war for good.

Evan Nappen 10:00 Page – 3 – of 8

I just wanted to share those thoughts with you, as well as some letters from great listeners that have some important questions that I want to share with you. Let’s start here with a letter from Stephen. Stephen asks, regarding gun purchase background check and medical cannabis card. Evan, I obtained a medical cannabis card, and I sent it back requesting to abandon the card and be removed from the program. I feel that if I purchase a firearm, I will not clear the background check. Or if I apply for a handgun permit, I will fail the background check. Do you have any advice for me? And in fact, I do.

Evan Nappen 10:54

As we’re talking about winning battles and you may recall that we actually coined the phrase on this show, Bang or Bong, you can’t have both. And that’s because the marijuana law, federally marijuana is still banned. It is still prohibited. And you know, the states that deal in marijuana are like the largest drug dealers in America, against federal drug laws. It’s just a fact. They’re illegally selling marijuana, contrary to federal law. Now the feds are turning the other, you know, turning the other way, not looking at it, ignoring it, and letting it take place. I understand that. But they didn’t change the gun law portion of it. And because it’s still banned federally and it’s still asked on the federal form, it’s still a disqualifier for those that are users of marijuana. Even though you have a medical card or even though your state has legalized marijuana, it is still illegal. Now recently, there’s been a case where it was decided, in a federal case, that said, marijuana is not a disqualifier and cannot be a disqualifier. It found the marijuana disqualification unconstitutional.

Evan Nappen 12:18

Now that case is not binding law in all of America. But it is yet another battle won in the war on our rights, because it is eliminating yet another disqualifier stopping people from exercising their rights. But that case still has to travel through the Appellate Courts, and maybe it’ll end up at the (United States ) Supreme Court so it can have universal application here in America. But it is a great battle won in the war. It is a demonstration of the power of our new Iron Dome of Heller, Alito, and Bruen. The test for constitutionality is taking out a disqualifier like that, and it is extremely encouraging. But at the moment, there’s still the federal ban. By giving up your cannabis card, you are relieving yourself of having a per se admission to being a user of marijuana. And by sending it back and no longer being part of the program, you are no longer a user. Now some folks suggest waiting a year after surrendering it if you’ve had a possession charge. Even though that’s doesn’t necessarily mean you’re using, but again, waiting a year. That’s the rule of thumb on being freed from the claim of a marijuana disqualifier. But in essence, you’ve given up the card and you’re no longer a user, then you’re no longer disqualified as a user. And so that’s a good thing.

Evan Nappen 14:05

But as we progress here, we’re seeing that not only about those steps, but the disqualifier itself has already taken a hit in one battle. And hopefully we will see the end of that as a disqualifier in the United States. I mean, it’s really pretty foolish when you think about it. When you have these states that are selling marijuana, recreationally and medically, all over the place, and the feds aren’t enforcing it on the states. Even though it’s directly a violation of the federal drug laws. And yet, they will try to use it against gun owners. It’s just stupid. It’s time. You know, let’s keep it consistent, folks. If you’re going to ignore it, then it’s time to remove it from the federal schedule, and it’s time to no longer make it a disqualifier. But politically and legislatively, that doesn’t seem to want to get done. So, the courts have Page – 4 – of 8

stepped in, and it’s looking better and better to have court-mandated solutions to it. Hey, when we come back, I have some other great letters in the Ask Evan for Gun Lawyer that I want to share with you.

Speaker 3 15:30

For over 30 years, Attorney Evan Nappen has seen what rotten laws do to good people. That’s why he’s dedicated his life to fighting for the rights of America’s gun owners. A fearsome courtroom litigator fighting for rights, justice, and freedom. An unrelenting gun rights spokesman tearing away at anti-gun propaganda to expose the truth. Author of six best-selling books on gun rights including Nappen on Gun Law, a bright orange gun law Bible that sits atop the desk and virtually every lawyer, police chief, firearms dealer and savvy gun owner. That’s what made Evan Nappen America’s Gun Lawyer. Gun laws are designed to make you a criminal. Don’t become the innocent victim of a vicious anti-gun legal system. This is the guy you want on your side. Keep his name and number in your wallet and hope you never have to use it. But if you live, work, or travel with a firearm, the deck is already stacked against you. You can find him on the web at EvanNappen.com or follow the link on the Gun Lawyer resource page. Evan Nappen – America’s Gun Lawyer.

Speaker 3 16:44

You’re listening to Gun Lawyer with Attorney Evan Nappen. Available wherever you get your favorite podcast.

Evan Nappen 16:59

Hey, welcome back to Gun Lawyer. I’m Evan Nappen and thank you for being a listener and for subscribing to Gun Lawyer. We are one of the highest-rated gun podcasts that are out there, and it’s because of you. I love speaking with you and filling you in on all kinds of great, important, useful information. Of course, helping to make this possible is our sponsor, the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol clubs, the NRA affiliate for New Jersey. The Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs does great work. They’re currently involved in multiple litigations, fighting for our gun rights. Not the least of which is going after the Murphy “Carry Killer / Anti-Civil Rights” law and trying to fight and challenge the magazine ban, the assault firearm ban, and the licensing criteria. That is part of what is the MU case, which is a case that my firm actually brought, challenging the catchall, subjective clause, for denying individuals their gun rights. The so-called “not in the interest of public health, safety and welfare”. The Association is also there on your behalf lobbying, with a full-time lobbyist in Trenton. You really need to be a member of the Association. By doing so, you can get email alerts, be on top of the hottest news, the changes and the challenges, and to be a part of this side of gun rights in the war. You want to be a part in this war. You don’t want to be a casualty. You want to be a fighter, and you want to be part of it. Join the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. anjrpc.org

Evan Nappen 19:01

I have a letter here from Bobby. Bobby says, Regarding concealed carry and medical emergencies. A person with a PTC (Permit to Carry a Handgun) is carrying his firearm and is involved in a motor vehicle accident or experiences a medical emergency and needs to be transported to the hospital in an ambulance. What should he do with his firearm? Probably not a good idea to arrive in the emergency room with a firearm strapped on your hip. What would happen then? He can’t legally transfer Page – 5 – of 8

possession to anyone else (spouse, coworker, family member etc.). Should he report the situation to a police officer that responded to the emergency and ask him to secure his firearm for him. Will this lead to issues in getting it returned when he’s discharged from the hospital? What do you recommend?

Evan Nappen 19:49

Okay, we’ve had these cases where individuals are in an accident and actually knocked out, unconscious. They come into the hospital and the hospital uncovers firearms on a person, and the hospital themselves have protocols when this happens. They will secure the firearm and have law enforcement get involved. So, if you’re unconscious and your gun is there at the hospital, you’re not the first person to be taken to the hospital with a firearm on their person. They have protocols to deal with it. Now, if you are in fact conscious but still need to go there, then one of the things is, of course, to have the lockbox in your car. You can unload your firearm and secure it in the lockbox and have that lockbox secured around the base of your seat, etc. So that it’s locked and secured and out of view. Therefore, you’ve been prudent and have properly secured your firearm. If the police are involved and it’s an emergency, you can tell the police and ask the police what to do. They will probably take your firearm into possession. And yes, you’ll have to get it back. They might try to give you a hard time, but normally they don’t.

Evan Nappen 21:04

Because the fact is you had an emergency, you’re going to the hospital, you wanted it to be secured, you did the right thing, and it’s time to get your property back. You didn’t break the law in any way. You were simply having a medical emergency. So, it’s not something that you need to really worry about in that regard. It’s something that I’ve dealt with, as an attorney, getting firearms returned for folks that have had medical emergencies and had to be taken to the hospital. Especially if you’re unconscious, obviously, you’re not guilty of committing any kind of crime or going into a sensitive place like a hospital. You don’t even know you’re being taken there. But if you do know and you do realize it, then you need to take the steps so that you don’t end up having that problem. The best would be to turn it over to law enforcement or to properly secure it. You should always have the ability to do that in your vehicle. You shouldn’t be traveling in a vehicle with a firearm and not be able to secure it in a gun safe of type. Because you never know when you may need to leave your car, and it may be a situation where you cannot take your firearm with you. Particularly in New Jersey, the law makes a specific proviso for securing your unloaded firearm in a locked container in your vehicle.

Evan Nappen 22:43

Now John sends a letter, and he says, hello Evan! I’m a big fan of your podcast and it’s amazing what you’re doing for our 2A rights. I just received my PTC which had some restrictions listed on the back of it. Judge Oxley from Monmouth County Superior Court issued me a Permit to Carry a Handgun in January. On my permit, a restriction was placed on it that says I must comply with the provisions of NJS 2C:39-6.(g) which places restrictions on how the firearm needs to be transported. As I understand, essentially restricting carry ability on my person in my personal vehicle, essentially making my CCW useless. My permit did not come with a court order. No other restrictions and no “checkbox” under “see below” where it says restrictions. And that’s where it lists none or see below or see court order. Actually, no box happened to be checked. But then it does say restricted from carry in any place prohibited by federal, state, or local law and shall comply with the provisions of NJS 2C:39-6(g). As I Page – 6 – of 8

understand it, all new permits are being issued by a Chief of Police without such restriction. So it seems my permit was processed in the middle of the rules and procedures change. In light of the new TROs, do I have to comply with these restrictions? Is there any way to get my permit reissued by my local PD? Thanks in advance if this is something I need to schedule or pay, let me know etc.

Evan Nappen 24:29

Okay, let me explain what happened here. Under the old law where judges were involved, judges did judge things. And part of the judge things that judges do and that they were doing is they were doing anti-gun efforts on our ability to carry. Part of their anti-gun efforts were creating restrictions and such through their judicial power. Now many of these restrictions are unconstitutional. They were not proper. When the new law passed that statutetized the restrictions that many judges were putting on and more, that law became subject to litigation in which certain portions have been temporarily restrained. There’s going to be more restraints by way of the preliminary injunction. I’m confident in seeing that. Yet here in the middle of this process, this individual, John here, ended up unfortunately, getting a judge-issued permit that puts this element into it that shouldn’t be there, because the vehicle carry requirement under the law has been restrained by a judge saying it’s not essentially Constitutional. And that having to lock up your firearm while in your vehicle is restrained under that statute.

Evan Nappen 25:50

But here with John, we have a Court that has issued this license, and this is kind of a very confusing statement here. The first part is about not carrying in any restricted prohibited place, federal, state, or local law. Well, that’s just a big duh, isn’t it? The judge has to tell you, you’re restricted from carrying in places where you’re prohibited from carrying. Isn’t that because you’re prohibited from carrying? You know, wow. But no, he felt obliged to have to mention that to you. Why? I don’t know, because the law is the law. He also didn’t put on there, the entire criminal code for you to follow either because it’s the law. You don’t have to list it. But there it is, and then adds in these provisions of 2C:39-6(g) which are restrictions on the mode of transport. Now 39-6(g) exemptions go to the exemptions under 39-6, such as transport to the range, transport between your homes or moving or going to the target range or going hunting. Then it references in those exemptions 39-6(g), which is a mode of transport, that does require your firearm to be unloaded and then either in a locked, actually not locked, it actually says in a closed fastened container unloaded or in a gun box or secure wrapper or locked in the trunk of your automobile.

Evan Nappen 27:27

The new law for vehicle carry that was enjoined, mandated that it be in a lockbox. Now 39-6(g) doesn’t mandate a lockbox, but it does mandate that it be unloaded. It’s completely screwed up to even put this on a carry permit, and just creates enormous confusion. It’s also got a lot of ambiguity going forward. But here’s the bottom line. The bottom line is there’s an argument that could be made that if you’re not within the provision of 39-6(g) when transporting, then you’re in violation of the restriction even though your license isn’t marked restricted. This license is Court issued. So is the court issuing of a license, a judicial act itself, that could be construed as a Court Order, because it is signed by a judge. And if it’s a court order, you cannot violate a court order, because you can be held in contempt of the order. This should not be there. It’s wrong to be there. You’re allowed to have it in your vehicle under the law, because that’s been enjoined. Page – 7 – of 8

Evan Nappen 28:32

So really, what needs to be done here is either obey it, so you don’t get into trouble, or you can go back to the Court and ask the Court to remove it, and to conform its language with the current legal situation in federal court, with the current new law that’s been enjoined, that allows vehicle carry and to ask that it be amended thusly, by removing the language of comply with provisions of NJS 2C:39-6(g). The other thing that can be done is you can wait it out. Then when you apply to get your new permit, because the permit only lasts for two years, from your chief. Chiefs have no authority to put restrictions. All the permits issued by Chiefs are unrestricted. It is just great that judges are no longer the issuing authority for just this reason. Remember, the problem of “justifiable need” was created by the judges about 50 years ago. The judges created the impossible to achieve tests. It’s been judges that have stood in the way of our rights. Not enhanced them or protected them like you would think they would do. Here’s yet another example of rights being restricted, completely contrary to what our understanding is under Bruen, and even what is expressed by way of the federal law. Yet, there it is. There it is. And ignoring it could be at your peril. The other thing that could be a possibility would be to surrender, voluntarily surrender, your carry license that you have now and then reapply now through the Chief. Then you would get a Chief-issued license with no restrictions. That, too, is an option. I understand that none of it is ideal. But this is a transition period of getting judges out of the permit business. And unfortunately, it has to be dealt with by individuals such as yourself in the war on our gun rights. This is yet another battle. But thanks for the letter, John. I understand your frustration.

Evan Nappen 30:54

I have another letter here. Regarding PTC and again, what does it say? He’s got a restricted license, as well. This one is regarding the restriction that says about the qualification of his handgun. His handgun is listed as the one he qualified with, and the question is, can he only carry that or any handgun that he owns? The law right in 2C:58-4, right in the carry law, in the first paragraph says one permit shall be good for all handguns. It says it flat out. And what do we have this other court doing? This court is ignoring it and putting one gun on and creating a situation where it appears that you’re only entitled to carry the one gun that they placed on the permit. It’s not clear, and you’re taking a risk if you carry some other gun. Basically, what you need to do here, in my opinion, is play it safe. Carry the one gun that you’re allowed to carry. When your permit expires, after two years, you’ll get one issued by the Chief of Police, and under that, it will not have any restrictions. That is how to handle it. But you can see, folks, how judges are constantly screwing up the system. They’re going against our rights and creating havoc in this way. And that is why one of the greatest things about that horrible “Carry Killer” law, the anti-Civil Rights bill is that it removed judges from being issuing authorities. In that regard, we have made significant progress. But until then, here’s yet another victim of a judge limiting rights without legal basis. Unfortunately, this is the current situation, and the solutions are how I have outlined them.

Evan Nappen 33:08

Folks, I want to remind you that this fight is continuing. The war is continuing, and it is critical that we understand where we are now. I don’t want to see any of you ever become a casualty. But take heart and know that we’re winning battle after battle, and the future has never looked so good for our Second Amendment rights. Please join ANJRPC. Please make sure you belong and that you’re part of this fight Page – 8 – of 8

and can stay informed as to the latest issues. This is Evan Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens, and boy, I wish the judges would get that through their heads. Till next time.

Speaker 3 34:09

Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing Evan@gun.lawyer. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state.

Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S2 E120_Transcript

About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.

Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets.

Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News.

As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists.

He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America.

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