Lochai, one of Graydancer's first teachers, honors him with an in-person interview where they talk about the good, the bad, and the ridiculous in the world of teaching kink. He outlines his concept on the differences between demonstrations, presentations, and education, and how mixing up the expectations of attendees causes a lot of unneeded grief. Along the way you get a lot of his humor, sarcasm, and more than a little ribbing of Gray during this visit to the Bondage Capital of the World, Madison, WI.

It is regrettable that this interview was not able to be recorded in the sound proof Ropecast Studios, and as a result there is some annoying fan noise that appears in the podcast. By way of apology, the staff of the Ropecast have agreed to take a 50% cut in their salary in order to bring you this episode absolutely free of charge.