For this episode we have invited Jennifer Higgie, editor at large of frieze magazine and the writer and thinker behind Bow Down an Instagram account and a podcast dedicated to significant women artists. Jennifer is in conversation with Liliane Lijn, an American-born artist based in London, who has been working with kinetic texts as early as since 1962. For decades Liliane has been involving poetry and light - set into motions in objects in space. Her installations induce a physical sense of time, the elapsing of time becomes a gesture, a haptic notion at our hands.