Christian Financial Perspectives
142 – Budgeting Without Numbers
Budgeting Without Numbers
Learn how to create the right mindset when it comes to budgeting.
Budgeting is a topic that commonly arises, and it is hard for most people to commit to it as budgeting can feel like bondage, not freedom. However, it is the lack of debt and ability to stick to a budget that brings so many of us financial freedom. Nobody likes debt or wants to be in debt. Even if you have the financial ability to buy anything you want, it isn’t always beneficial to you.
There are many ways that you can save on money (and/or decrease your purchases) that don’t have to directly deal with numbers. It just means having the right mindset. Some of the areas that Bob and Shawn cover include waiting before large purchases and methods to keep your emotions at bay when considering purchases.
HOSTED BY: Bob Barber, CWS®, CKA®
CO-HOST: Shawn Peters
Mentioned In This Episode
Christian Financial Advisors
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Simplifying The Money Conversation
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Mint By Intuit
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Website
Simplifi By Quicken
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Monarch Money
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Website
Bible Verses In This Episode
PROVERBS 27:24
For riches are not forever, Nor does a crown endure to all generations.
EXODUS 20:17
No lusting after your neighbor’s house—or wife or servant or maid or ox or donkey.
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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Intro:
Welcome to Christian Financial Perspectives, where you’re invited to gain insight, wisdom, and knowledge about how Christians integrate their faith, life, and finances with a biblical worldview. Here’s your Christian Financial Advisors’ host, Bob Barber and his co-host, Shawn Peters.
Shawn:
Welcome to another episode of Christian Financial Perspectives. We’re so glad you joined us today. If you like content on budgeting, finance related of any kind from a Christian perspective, we’d love it if you would hit that subscribe button. Depending on when you’re watching this, we’re excited that we just hit our hundred-thousand subscribers.
Bob:
Did we really? Hey, I didn’t know that.
Shawn:
At some point, at some point, this will be true when someone’s watching.
Bob:
In the future. Okay. We would love you to subscribe as we grow and get the message out about how to handle money from a Godly perspective.
Shawn:
If you do help us to reach that goal of a hundred thousand, we’ll be really excited.
Bob:
We really thank you.
Shawn:
So Bob…
Bob:
Oh goodness, what a title.
Shawn:
Hopefully, some of you saw our title and it really isn’t clickbait. This really is going to be, “Budgeting Without Numbers,” because budgeting is far more than just numbers.
Bob:
That’s correct. Now there’s going to be a few numbers at the very end. About 80 to 90% of budgeting is not about numbers. You’re like, “How can you say that?”
Shawn:
Now, Bob, your other idea for this episode was to call this, “The Budgeting Mindset,” right?
Bob:
That’s correct.
Shawn:
So, before we get into that, let’s read a couple scriptures because this is Christian Financial Perspectives.
Bob:
These scriptures really do tie into what we’re going to be talking about, Shawn.
Shawn:
All right, well, let’s go with the first one. Proverbs 27:24, “For riches are not forever, nor does a crown endure to all generations.” You want to go with Exodus?
Bob:
I’ll go with Exodus. I took this from The Message. I thought it really was great. “No lusting after your neighbor’s house–or wife or servant or maid or ox or donkey.” Now most of us don’t have an ox or donkey today.
Shawn:
I guess you could replace that with the name of a car brand.
Bob:
Exactly, or his Lexus or boat. Don’t set your heart on anything that is your neighbors, and this is really the foundation for today, Shawn. This is about coveting. This is about wanting what others have, and I think that is a reason that so many people blow their budget.
Shawn:
It’s a long scripture, so we’re not going to read all of that one right now, but it makes me think of the parable of talents, too. Where the master was going to be going away for a while, and what I love about that scripture. I feel like sometimes you just kind of gloss over the beginning, but it wasn’t so much just that one he gave five, one he gave two, one he gave one. But that it specifically says that he gave each to their own ability.
Bob:
That’s true. People often will miss out on that.
Shawn:
Obviously what you can see from that is there were three servants. They were not all given the same number of talents, but it was according to their ability. What we’ve got to always remember, and this definitely ties into the mindset, is that budgeting is about managing what God has entrusted to you. Not worrying about what your neighbors doing, what it looks like they have. Which we’ll get into that too, and sometimes that might just be all a facade. Some people, and let’s just kinda make this clear since we’re talking about budgeting. Some people just flat out don’t make enough money for all of life’s needs.
Bob:
I’ve seen it, Shawn. You make less than $25,000 a year here in the United States, and that’s not enough money to pay all the bills. There’s just not enough there, and I’ve heard them, they’ve come to me before and said, “I need help with budgeting.” I’m like, bless your heart because there’s just really, there’s not any room for anything, for the majority.
Shawn:
For today’s episode, today’s episode is going to be for the majority of the people in the United States that do make enough. They’re not below the poverty line, and when it comes to budgeting, success is not based on the numbers, but on having the right mindset. If you don’t start with the right mindset, it doesn’t matter how creative you get with spreadsheets and budgeting apps or numbers, it’s not going to make a difference. You’ve got to have the right mindset or you are not going to succeed.
Bob:
You’re domed for failure because all the numbers don’t mean anything if you don’t have that right mindset.
Shawn:
I mean, I can come up with numbers all day, but we’ve seen it before, Bob. People ask us, “Hey, I’m trying to reach this goal for retirement.” We say, “Okay, great. We need to open up this kind of account, you need to be putting this much away every month between now and when you’ve estimated that you want to retire,” and it happens over and over. Some people follow the plan and some people don’t. Then when they get to retirement, “Why don’t I have enough money?” Well, I gave you the numbers, but if you can’t have the right mindset and be disciplined and follow the plan, it doesn’t matter what plans you come up with.
Bob:
I’m coming from this folks, people, I’m coming from this with 30, no, it’s coming on 34, 35 years of experience. I’ve seen this over and over. I’ve seen people, they really don’t have a budget, but they have the right mindset. They don’t find themselves in financial trouble because they have that right mindset. I see it every single day throughout the history of how long I’ve been in this business, this financial advisory business. I think it’s first that we got to lay down some foundation. What is your personality trait? Because everyone has a different personality trait. Well, there’s basically four main ones as we know. Are you a saver or are you a spender? Which do you enjoy most? Saving or spending? Now, believe it or not, I actually enjoy saving. I know I’m out there and I’m part of that small percentage, but I enjoy saving. I enjoy watching the value go up of my cash reserves. I feel security in that. My ultimate security is in Jesus Christ and God. It is very important to me to see that I have cash reserves, so that if something bad happens, I’m ready for it. Bad things have happened as life happens. I mean, when Rachael got cancer, life happened, it took me out of the workplace for a while. But we had our cash reserves set up, we had our insurances in place. Some people, they just love that spending. That’s not bad.
Shawn:
If you are the one that says, “Oh, I like to spend.” That doesn’t mean you can’t have the right mindset. It doesn’t mean you can’t be successful, but these personality traits that we’re covering, think of it as you need to know yourself. You need to know yourself so what you need to do in your own life. If you have a spouse, you and your spouse need to be able to hold each other accountable. I would say that between Jenna and I, my wife, she is probably more of the saver than I am, even though I’m a financial advisor.
Bob:
I think Jenna got her dad in her.
Shawn:
We are still, at the end of the day, we both lean more towards we want to focus on the saving first and the spending, that’s kind of a reward, if you will. That is not our focus. The focus is we make sure we handle the being more frugal, more conservative side of things. You got to ask yourself that first question. Are you a saver or a spender? Which one do you tend to enjoy more? Then the next one, does buying things make you happy? We know it doesn’t create joy, but for some people, the act of buying that thing or hitting buy now or add to cart or whatever it is. It does have a little bit of a dopamine hit, and it makes you happy.
Bob:
Without a doubt, what you just said, that dopamine hit.
Shawn:
Some people don’t really care. It doesn’t really matter to them.
Bob:
Well, I knew somebody that was in the family, they’re no longer around, but I mean they’ve gone home to be with the Lord. I could tell they got their significance from shopping. Now, they liked to shop for other people and they loved to buy things for other people. I could tell that gave them their significance and enjoyment.
Shawn:
So the next one, is long-term financial security important to you, or is having a temporary status symbol more important? Which one of those are more important? Again, not trying to get onto people.
Bob:
No, not at all.
Shawn:
But it’s just, again, try to be honest.
Bob:
These are personality traits.
Shawn:
Try to be honest and ask yourself, which one are you?
Bob:
How do you feel about cars? Is driving an old car that works well just fine, or are you always wanting that new one?
I mean, I know some folks that they trade out of cars like every year or two. I’m like, man, you are just getting hit with it, and the car is fine, but they want that new car. They like that new car smell I guess.
Shawn:
I would argue, getting a new car isn’t a bad thing. To be honest, when you’re buying a new car every year, you’re compounding how much money you’re losing, because you’re buying a depreciating asset. So there’s nothing wrong with buying it new, but you’re kind of leaving a lot on the table when you buy something new every year. For sure, every two years minimum. Anyway, ask yourself, “Which one are you?”
Bob:
I know which one, like we were saying, my own daughter, your wife. I don’t know, y’all had that little Subaru now for 7-8 years. I know y’all were going to buy a new one and you plan on keeping it for 10. You keep cars, y’all keep cars a long time.
Shawn:
Oh, we’re keeping the seven or eight year old Subaru, too. We’re actually trading in the newer vehicle.
Bob:
So you have more of a family vehicle. I’m with you.
Shawn:
So the last one is…
Bob:
Oh, isn’t this interesting? This is a good one.
Shawn:
Do you like numbers, or do you despise math?
Numbers, spreadsheets, whatever you want to call it.
Bob:
Here in the office, we’re all a bunch of numbers geeks. We all love spreadsheets and math.
Shawn:
Probably good considering that we work at a financial firm, right?
Bob:
It is. That’s definitely a personality trait I think that we have around here.
Shawn:
There’s good news, right, Bob? If for that last one, you despise math, the good news is that budgeting is mostly a mindset. It’s not based solely on the numbers, so there’s hope for you.
Bob:
So, we’re going to get into lots of different ways to get that mindset right when it comes to budgeting, so you don’t have to worry so much about the numbers. Because I will say this, Shawn, in knowing people, that it’s not a gift. Math is not their thing. I’ve seen a guilt feeling, they want to be able to like those numbers, but first let’s just get into the right mindset, then the numbers will come into play.
Shawn:
Exactly. So the right mindset, what is the right mindset? We’ve got a few statements, we’re going to cover what is the right mindset. Bob, you want to get the first one?
Bob:
Hopefully, you can take this in and you can say, okay. If I can get that mindset, the budget’s automatically going to kinda line up under that. We’re going to share a little bit about numbers, but it really, it’s only going to be about 5% of today’s program, at the very end. The right mindset, first of all, it’s not comparing yourself to anyone else. Not the super rich, Hollywood, or social media. If you start comparing yourself to that, you’re never going to measure up. And advertisements, it’s geared that way, right? You always need better. You always need more.
Shawn:
Well, and there’s so much in social media, too, that is engineered to create a certain kind of image and brand, if you will. Very rarely is it based on real life. It’s not candid. The next one kind of ties into that. The right mindset is not comparing yourself to what other people have. Just like the parable of the talents, each given according to their own ability. Don’t compare yourself to other people. Learn to be content with what you have in all circumstances, just like Paul said. Be content in all situations.
Bob:
We’re coming out with this in the beginning of the year. It reminds me of Christmas time. I was telling you about the Christmas lights, and we get our neighbors. We live in this nice neighborhood, and the neighbors start competing with each other so much for Christmas lights, that they start hiring it out. I’m hearing numbers of $6,000 to $15,000. Now, that right there is the wrong mindset.
Shawn:
Also, your neighborhood has much larger lots, and it’s gated. I mean, there’s not a lot of traffic. In my opinion, it’s not, how dare you spend money on putting Christmas lights up. Sometimes, it’s not safe to get up on the roof, but still, when you’re spending so much money, who’s even going to see it? I mean, I guess it’s great for you and Rachael. They’re like, hey, everybody else is competing. We just have a nice view when we drive in.
Bob:
We’re talking about that guy across the street. He’s got 36 acres, and he decorates about half of it. It’s crazy and nobody sees it but the three of us that live down there on the cul-de-sac.
Shawn:
Maybe he’s making up, if that was one acre lots he’s making up for all the lights that would have been there.
Bob:
He pretty much is. I think this is another mindset that you want to understand, is that those people with the expensive cars and the big homes, many of them are leveraged to the hilt with high debt. It’s not from financial success.
Shawn:
That’s right.
Bob:
It’s all a, what do we call it?
Shawn:
It’s all a facade.
Bob:
It’s all a facade.
Shawn:
Remember that God’s word says, “The borrower is a slave to the lender,” and this does not bring peace. That one is, the right mindset is knowing that many people with expensive cars or homes are leveraged with a whole lot of debt.
Bob:
A lot.
Shawn:
It that does not, just because you see something nice, that does not mean that someone is financially successful.
Bob:
I’ll tell you, Shawn, here we are in 2023, and we know the economy is teetering. With the high interest rates and things and all the leverage, it’s scary. If you don’t have all the leverage level and the interest rates are going up, so what? I mean you’re fine.
Shawn:
So the next one, the right mindset is asking if what you already have is fine before making a large purchase such as a new car, larger home, or a major remodel.
Bob:
I tell you what, you watch HGTV all day long, and you’re going to think I need to remodel my kitchen every three years. Your appliances are working fine, your dishwasher’s working fine, your oven’s working fine, but HGTV convinces you. No, the countertops need to be all white this year.
Shawn:
You need to get the new appliances because they came out with the new matte black, and you have the shiny black. Now you need the matte black.
Bob:
A couple years ago it was stainless steel, right?
Shawn:
Now, they have black stainless steel. Oh, you only have stainless steel? You don’t have black stainless steel yet?
Bob:
You haven’t gotten with it.
Shawn:
Yeah, come on.
Bob:
That’s true, isn’t it? If you watch that stuff all day long, you get into that mindset. Hey, we need to remodel our home. What’s it going to cost to remodel your kitchen? $15,000, $20,000, $25,000? Is it functional right now? Is it working fine?
Shawn:
Depends on how big the kitchen is, I guess.
Bob:
That’s the mindset. You’ve got to be careful of that mindset because the world is always doing that, not Christian mindset, but the worldly, the secular mindset’s trying to do that to you.
Shawn:
The next one, the right mindset is asking if something is a want or is it a real need before buying anything?
Bob:
I think that’s number one, isn’t it? Wouldn’t that be number one? Is it a want or is it a need? Then when it comes down to buying that, we’re going to go over something else here in a minute that is it the right mindset. It’s being content with what you have and not always thinking the grass is going to be greener on the other side.
Shawn:
That’s right. If you haven’t noticed already, there’s a little bit of a trend in what we’re saying. Which a lot of this comes back to that mindset of being content with what you have.
Bob:
Yes.
Shawn:
If you approach your budgeting from that perspective, the numbers are typically going to fall.
Bob:
They’re going to fall right under it. If you don’t approach your budgeting like this, you’ve got it flipped. The foundation has to be built on the right mindset.
Shawn:
It’s kind of like our federal government as a whole. If they were just content with the tax money that they were bringing in and figured out a way to use that instead of, oh, we want to do more, we’ll just borrow it. We’ll produce it from thin air, and pass it down to the next few generations. They’ll figure it out.
Bob:
I like this next one, too. You know what? Your self-worth is not tied to all that material.
Shawn:
That’s right. We say it like this, the right mindset is knowing your net worth is not equal to your self-worth and that happiness is not based on material things.
Bob:
That’s right. Boy, hopefully hearing this just releases you from all this bondage that our world wants to put on you, because materialism is not going to bring true joy and long term happiness. It’s going to bring temporary, short term, but not long term.
Shawn:
The next one. The right mindset is defining limits for large and small purchases.
Bob:
I think that’s so important, isn’t it?
Shawn:
Now, this isn’t for everybody. I know for Jenna and I, we have a certain dollar amount. If it’s a purchase that is anything equal to or greater than a certain dollar amount, we have to at least discuss it.
Bob:
I think that’s great.
Shawn:
It doesn’t need to be thousands of dollars. It’s smaller than that for us, but it’s just good because, if you have your partner and you hold each other accountable, sometimes you might get a little bit excited about it. Then your spouse says, “Yeah, that’s a want. That’s definitely not a need,” and we have other stuff we need this month.
Bob:
For us guys, all right, the large purchase is a boat. The large purchase is a deer lease. That costs a lot of money. By the way, I remember one day pastor Ray, where I go to church here in town, he had a video during deer season and it was so funny because he got up and said, “Now honey, you need to really like this meat because…” and he started adding up with the deer lease cost and the gas to get to it. He said, “You realize we’re paying like, $35 a pound for this meat?” by the time they were done.
Shawn:
Which also to me would say, well, maybe you should hunt a little bit less and go to the grocery store where there’s $5 or $6.
Bob:
But there’s the joy of hunting, I guess. All right. What’s the next one, Shawn?
Shawn:
Number nine. The right mindset is understanding that debt works against you, not for you. I would say that’s even true if someone has real investment property. Whatever it is, if you’ve used debt for something, that debt is always working against you.
Bob:
Yes.
Shawn:
So in the case of even like an investment property, it doesn’t mean you can’t be successful with it, but you have to remember that no matter what happens, even if you’re not renting that property out, that debt is still working against you.
Bob:
Those lenders, though, they want to get you as high in that debt as possible because then you become slave to the lender. They are not fiduciaries in any sense of the word at all, because is that in your best interest to put you in a lot of debt? It’s in their best interest because what do they do when they put you in a lot of debt? They make a lot of interest off of you. That’s how they make a living is by making interest off of you.
Shawn:
That’s right. So the next one, the right mindset is not allowing emotions to make any buying decisions.
Bob:
That’s a big one.
Shawn:
Which kind of goes right into our next one, too.
Bob:
It is.
Shawn:
The right mindset is waiting on unnecessary small purchases for a couple weeks and big ones for at least three to four months. Everyone probably should have experienced at this point if you are an adult. There is definitely an emotional aspect to purchases.
Bob:
Oh, no doubt.
Shawn:
There’s the new car, the new home. There’s the, I’m buying some gadget for the kitchen. It doesn’t always have to be something huge, but there’s that emotional, like you get excited about it. Which again is okay, but waiting a little bit to make sure, okay. Was this just like an impulse? Online shopping in general has just made it so much easier to purchase. Don’t let those emotions dictate your buying decisions. A great way to do that is to give yourself a little bit of padding to say, okay, I’m not going to purchase. Unless it’s an actual necessity like we ran outta toilet paper. Necessity. If it’s not a necessity, wait a little bit of time. See if those emotions fade and you go, oh, well, I guess we don’t really need it.
Bob:
Well, we’ve talked about this in investing many times right here on a Christian Financial Perspectives that emotions and finance mix like oil and water. They should not be put together, ever. That’s so hard because we’re emotional creatures, and the emotions can take over the logic. For somebody like us who us who is very mathematically minded, that math is logic. Left brain is logic. Right brain is emotion. We’ve got to, in this case, for budgeting for you to get the right mindset, you’ve got to realize I cannot allow my emotions to dictate my financial decisions.
Shawn:
To piggyback off of that, Bob, think of it as driving. You don’t want to drive drunk. You don’t want to drive where you’re extremely tired. You don’t want to drive when you’re already really irritable or mad. Just like with budgeting, you don’t want to do these things when you’re frustrated, when you’ve had a lot of anxiety, when you’re stressed from work, or your kid slapped a kid in the face at school. Whatever it is that happened, hypothetically.
Bob:
So the best time to talk with your spouse about budgeting is not when the kids are yelling.
Shawn:
Exactly. If your spouse is not a morning person, do not try to talk to them about it first thing in the morning. Let them have their coffee first or their tea.
Bob:
I’ve learned my lesson there, folks. He’s speaking to me. I don’t know if he knows. You do the same thing? Don’t do that. Make sure it’s the right time of the day and the right time of the hour or all the stars are lined up.
Shawn:
Otherwise you’re making what can already be difficult, you’re making it more difficult, because the right mindset requires your emotions to also be in check.
Bob:
So let’s get into some budgeting wisdom. We have really gone into the right mindset. Like I say, that’s the foundation. There’s some budgeting wisdom here that we’ve talked about on the program for many years. This comes from, what we’re about to mention, comes from Ron Blue from Kingdom Advisors. He’s written a whole workbook on this, and we gave out a lot of them. Shawn, I’m going to let you do that.
Shawn:
Bob, do you remember what that book is called?
Bob:
It’s actually… oh gosh. We have them right here in our library.
Shawn:
We’ll put a link in the description.
Bob:
Remember that? We’ll, let’s do that.
Shawn:
There are only four ways. There are only four ways to spend money. Those four ways should be in the following order for handling money. Number one is LIVE or necessities.
Bob:
Right.
Shawn:
Number two is GIVE or charities. Number three is owe, like O-W-E, or debt and taxes.
Bob:
We’re always going to owe taxes.
Shawn:
Yep. Death and taxes. Number four, GROW, which would be saving and investing. With that in mind, consider cash reserves or your savings. Consider your cash reserves should be a safety net for unexpected expenditures. I think Dave Ramsey, for example, talks about the emergency fund. We always tell people you should have about six months of your expenses saved up. Whatever those expenses are, it varies by household. That cash reserve is for when an emergency happens, something unexpected, like the car breaks down. You got to fix it or else you can’t drive or there’s a health issue that comes up, like you talked about when Rachael got diagnosed with cancer. That was unexpected. Not really part of the plan. Your cash reserve, however, is not a little piggy bank or cash in the bank account to be spent on just anything. It is called the emergency fund because —
Bob:
For a reason.
Shawn:
For a reason, because it should be in emergencies. Not, “Oh, I really want the newest copy of this book,” they’re wanting to read, or I really want to go to the movies this weekend.
Bob:
Shawn, when I heard this for the first time by Ron Blue probably 10 years ago, it really struck me because it was that simple. It’s only four things and you can remember it, and they really just kind of flow. Live, Give, Owe, Grow. That’s all you’ve got to remember. Just put that in your mind. Live, Give, Owe, Grow.
Shawn:
Those are the only four things.
Bob:
Let’s put our little pie chart up that shows it, and that pie, the pie’s only this big. Whatever you spend on “live, give, owe, or grow,” something’s got to give if you spend more in another category. If you’re going to live on more, it’s goin
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