Several years ago I interviewed Terrence Deacon about his fascinating book Incomplete Nature: How Mind Emerged from Matter. His goal was to propose a theory of how purpose evolved in a universe without purpose. His argument was persuasive, but highly technical. In this month’s episode of Books and Ideas I interview his longtime colleague Jeremy Sherman. His book Neither Ghost nor Machine: The Emergence and Nature of Selves makes Deacon’s ideas highly accessible to a wider audience. Join us as we explore the question: How did purpose arise from a purposeless universe? (Hint: the answer is not supernatural!) Links and References: Neither Ghost nor Machine: The Emergence and Nature of Selves by Jeremy Sherman Incomplete Nature: How Mind Emerged from Matter by Terrence W. Deacon The Symbolic Species: The Co-Evolution of Language and the Brain by Terrence W. Deacon Books and Ideas 47 with Terrence Deacon Metaphors We Live By by George Lakoff and Mark Johnson The Selfish Gene and The Blind Watchmaker by Richard Dawkins Consciousness Explained by Daniel Dennett The Life of the Mind by Hannah Arendt Announcements: Coming April 28, 2020: a new expanded version of Are You Sure? The Unconscious Origins of Certainty by Virginia “Ginger” Campbell, MD (links coming soon) Send email to docartemis@gmail.com or post voice feedback at http://speakpipe.com/docartemis. Please support Books and Ideas via Patreon at http://patreon.com/booksandideas. To win an Amazon gift certificate: post a review of Books and Ideas in iTunes and send me a screenshot. Connect on Social Media: Twitter: @docartemis Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/booksandideas