Today, I am very happy to have with me a former client of mine and he’s very brave to be willing to talk about fear of flying in a straightforward manner!

John: Hi. This is Doctor John Dacey with my weekly podcast, New Solutions to the Anxiety Epidemic. Today, I am very happy to have with me a former client of mine and he’s very brave to be willing to talk about everything straightforward. His name is Bob and I’m really happy to have him in the studio today. Hey Bob, how are you?

Bob: Good, John. Glad to be here.

John: Now the major thing when I typically deal with former clients, is I ask them the 8 kinds of anxiety and have them talk about what it felt like and what they did to be successful, but in your particular case, it was very clear what you needed to deal with was fear of flying. Could you talk a little bit, Bob, about how you came to be a fearful flyer? You were flying to France and a whole lot of places and then all of a sudden something happened, isn’t that right?

Bob: Yeah, I never had trouble flying before. I few all over to Europe and had no trouble in planes whatsoever, but I got married, and this was quite a long time ago.

John: Where did you get married then?

Bob: I got married in Finland.

John: Oh Finland. Ok.

Bob: Finland. My wife was Finnish, we met in Paris, and then she went back to Finland and I went back to join her and we got married after knowing each other for about 2 months or so. We had a honeymoon, by cruise, in the Mediterranean, and then we flew back to the United States from Milan. It was on the flight back that I had a totally unexpected panic attack. I can explain what it was like but looking back I realize, I was very ambivalent about the marriage. I was really of the feeling that maybe it was a mistake, that we knew each other for too short a time.

John: Now let me just ask you a question there, Bob. So, you’re married, you had your honeymoon, etcetera, etcetera, and everything seems to be okay and then all of the sudden, something happened on this trip on the way back. Is that right?

Bob: Right. I mean I did have my doubts, even going into the flight back. It wasn’t as if everything was totally hunky-dory and then completely out of the blue this happened, but I certainly didn’t expect—I had never had anything like this before.

John: On the other hand, this is the first time she’s going to be meeting your parents, your relatives, your friends, is this correct?

Bob: Well actually my parents had flown over for the wedding.

John: Oh I see. Ok.

Bob: But you know, this is the first time that she’s coming to the states. She was a very successful journalist and artist in Finland and she gave all that up to come over here with me.

John: Can I interrupt you once again? I’m sorry to do that. You’re rather accomplished yourself. Would you tell us a little bit about your own educational background?

Bob: Yeah. Well, I’m a biochemist. I have a Ph.D. in chemistry from Yale. I graduated Columbia Undergraduate and I had post oped in a couple of places, one of them which was Paris. We were coming back here where I was going to take up a position at Boston University in the Chemistry department.

John: So you have pretty high standards I can imagine.

Bob: Well you might say. You know, I was very excited about everything and looking forward to an academic career and my wife had, again, given up everything to come here with me so I felt quite a sense of responsibility for her. I had to really introduce her to the United States, how to go shopping in markets, and just ordinary everyday things. And also, to help her get a job over here. But on the plane, suddenly I felt very strong claustrophobia. I felt trapped in the plane, that I couldn’t get out. These were feelings that I had never really had before.

John: Why would you want to get out, Bob?

Bob: Yeah, I mean I wouldn’t want to get out. There’s absolutely no reason. In that sense, it made no sense, but looking back on it, I was also feeling trapped in this marriage even right at the beginning and that maybe played into this feeling of being trapped in the airplane. And it was pretty awful. It was a kind of panic attack. My breathing got sort of short and I didn’t feel I was going to die. I just felt I was in an impossible situation where I was trapped and couldn’t get out.

John: So, naturally, you assumed that being on the airplane was part of this whole thing.

Bob: Yeah, right.

John: And that’s why after being a fearless flyer for a long time—this is what amazes people—in one experience, it went from being perfectly comfortable to perfectly terrifying.

Bob: Exactly right. Exactly right. That was part of the problem because it was so unexpected and I had never had anything like this before. I was not an anxious person, I didn’t have these kinds of anxieties before. I had the normal anxieties, you know, like before a final exam or something like that, that everybody has, but I never had these kinds of feelings before. So, we got back to the states and I had a number of phobias I guess you’d call them, that were connected, I suppose, to this that I had never had before: a phobia of heights, a fear of elevators, being trapped in a subway if it’s stopped between stations. A whole bunch of phobias that were kind of connected to being trapped in some way.

John: So I can understand this. You sort of transferred being psychologically trapped in the marriage to being physically trapped in these various situations, which in fact you were. If you go up in an elevator, for a short time you are trapped.

Bob: Right. That’s what they all had in common.

John: And for a long time on an airplane, especially in an intercontinental flight like that, you’re trapped for quite a while.

Bob: That’s right. The next summer, we went back to Finland, to visit her family, and it was pretty awful for me because I knew how awful the flight would be and it was. And it’s a long flight. The flight there and back was pretty bad. That was the beginning of all of these. As I mentioned, I never had these anxieties before and it all sort of came crashing down. Meanwhile, I had to continue my work which I wanted to do as a biochemist and had students working with me and was teaching classes and meanwhile dealing with all this so it was quite difficult.

John: Now as I said to you, we have a limited amount of time and I wonder if we can jump right into what you and I did. You came to see me about this, which was a brilliant plan on your part. I’m just kidding. However, what we did—tell us a little about what we did to deal with the flying.

Bob: Well, we sort of worked in stages. We first spoke about what brought all this on, which I kind of summarized, in the first place. Then, we tried to imagine what it would be like in the plane, and then I worked with John on a simulator, a flight simulator that tried to give me an even stronger feeling than just talking about it, an actual visual feeling for being in the plane. Going up then landing, flying and then landing. Then we went out to the small private plane field and we looked around and gradually worked up where we first went on an airplane and it was a small Cessna and sat in the plane for a while to give my self a feeling for sitting in the plane. The next step we were in the plane and we just taxied around the field, we didn’t take off.

John: By the way, we have a pilot with us, I remember, because even though I was with you, I’m also a student pilot so I couldn’t really take you up if I wanted to, but we did have an instructor and the company that did this with us was very understanding and really wanted to see you be able to fly again so they were perfectly willing to do these things like traveling around the airport. They got permission and they traveled around the airport on the ground at first to get you back to being used to it.

Bob: Yeah, they were very supportive.

John: And by the way, I think it’s important to add that the big difference in being on a super liner and this little pane is that you get 270 degrees of view from where you’re sitting up in the front, I was sitting in the back. Also, we had a pilot who if you say to him, “I have to go down right now,” he will do it. If you say that to a 747 pilot, they probably won’t do it.

Bob: You’re in big trouble right.

John: That’s right.

Bob: The next time we actually took off and we circled around the airport and came down, and each time it git a little hard, but a little easier in a way.

John: By the way, I want to add that I think we went out and did a little celebrating afterward, and it’s very important that you do celebrate, that you do have some really nice reward for doing this because that’s what cements the success feeling.

Bob: Yes. Absolutely. Then we moved up to taking shorter flights on a regular commercial plane. We took Cape Air once to Hyannis and once I think it was to Provincetown. That worked out quite well. They’re small planes, but they’re commercial flights.

John: Well you did a great job. You were very nervous and I believe that if you don’t mind me saying this, that you took one small tranquilizer just to help a little bit and we didn’t do that every time, but we did it in the beginning.

Bob: Yes, and it really did help. I took some Ativan and that did help.

John: Ativan is a great drug for that.

Bob: Yes. And then after those, we really graduated, I did to commercial jets, we took a flight to New York. I think we took two flights to New York and then I did one with my girlfriend without John and then I went to visit a friend in Washington, DC, which was for me a real triumph.

John: By yourself.

Bob: That was the longest one. Yeah, it was by myself.

John: I was so proud of you because that was a really big jump and you did wonderfully well.

Bob: I was a little trepidatious but it worked out fine and that was the last flight and you know it’s been a few years, but I wouldn’t have any trouble taking those flights again and I’m still hoping to reach for the stars in a way, and get back to my beloved Paris.

John: We’re going to get you back to Paris, Bob. That’s the plan. Well, I want to thank you so much for giving your testimony here today. I’m sure there’s a lot of listeners, we have over 6 thousand listeners now, I don’t know if I told you. It’s just wonderful and of course, we’re talking about the Corona Virus sometimes, but mostly it’s about stories like yours. You’re proud of yourself and I have to say, I’m very proud of you also.

Bob: And I’ve enjoyed working with you so much, John. You’ve made all the difference to me. All the difference.

John: Well thank you so much. Thanks a million. And I’ll talk to you folks next week.