In this episode we discuss with a long time Zen practitioner the curious human habit of having conversations with people who are not present, in places that we don't actually inhabit. 
 
While the common image of meditation is one of peaceful stillness where the mind idles along like the purring of a kitten, the reality is that meditation more often than not drops us into the center of a what feels like a madhouse. 
 
Listen in and find out about how meditation is not so much for stillness on the cushion, but for a chance at equanimity off of it.