Mom And ... Podcast

Mom And ... Podcast


Tipsy Ellipses FB Live with Cindy Whitesides

November 05, 2021
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November 5, 2021



Mom &… Podcast: Tipsy Ellipses Episode



Guest: Cindy Whitesides, Life Coach



Show Summary



Tipsy Ellipses is a monthly bonus episode that we record via Facebook Live. This month’s live recording took place on Tuesday, November 2 and featured friend and guest, Cindy Whitesides.



Cindy is trained as a Wayfinder Life Coach with Martha Beck, Inc. and is currently in the process of becoming certified through the Courageous Living Coach Certification. Her goal is to become certified as an Associate Certified Coach through the International Coaching Federation in 2022.



Cindy got her degree in Psychology from Texas A&M University and a Master’s degree in Higher Education from Colorado State University.



Topics From This Episode (Complete transcript is available below… scroll to the bottom!)



  • How to become a coach
  • Who should consider becoming a coach and why
  • How long it takes to get certified as a coach
  • Who can benefit from coaching
  • Identifying areas where we can let go
  • The difference between coaching and therapy
  • Coaches as compassionate witnesses
  • The Five Whys
  • How to find the right coach for you
  • How coaches fill the gaps in our community and family structures

Resources and Links From This Episode 



Look, Listen, Learn



Cindy:



Missy:



Susanne:



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Musical Notes



Our delightfully happy intro and outro theme music, “We Will Get Through This” is performed by Young Presidents, and used under license from Shutterstock.



Cindy Whitesides Life Coach

Transcript* From This Episode



*Please note that this transcript is automatically generated through our editing software. Expect odd errors and misunderstood words. In fact, if you find a really funny one, send it to us, and we may feature it – and you – on our socials!



Susanne: [00:00:00] All right. We’re live. 



Missy: Yay. Welcome to 



Susanne: tipsy ellipsis. Yes. Do you want to explain what tipsy ellipses are this month? Missy? Sure. 



Missy: And then when I botch it, you can re-explain it.



So yeah, if you’ve never been here before for a tipsy it’s once a month, we go live from our Facebook page for a much more relaxed conversation than normal, a little less prep work on our parts. Maybe we’re not prepared. We’re not like we’re not being super careful than we usually have a 



Susanne: cocktail. 



Missy: And, um, we have guests who are cool moms doing all kinds of cool things.



Sometimes it’s just us, but we are lucky to have a guest tonight and I will wait and we’ll do a big introduction in just a second, but that’s what it is. And then this will be available as a podcast download usually Friday ish. 



Susanne: so, [00:01:00] well, 



Missy: yeah, so if you don’t like to top on and watch Facebook live, you can just listen to it.



But, and for those who are afraid of Facebook live, we can’t see you. You don’t have to participate. You can just sit and watch, but if you really want to participate, you can ask and then we maybe could add you to the stream. 



Susanne: Oh. But yes, we don’t do it. We don’t surprise attack anybody with it. We won’t call on you.



Yeah. Hey, and who are you? 



Missy: Oh, who am I as a great question today? 



Susanne: So I’m Missy Steven’s mom and dot.dot writer. 



Missy: foster care advocate and today winning football team. Last football game, they finally 



Susanne: won. So that was exciting. That is so exciting to end on a high note. 



Missy: Yes. After a lot of low, 



Susanne: low notes. Oh, you know what?



My son played on. He plays on those I nine. So it’s like non competitive sports and he’s been one season where they were undefeated. And then he’s been on another [00:02:00] season where they didn’t win a single game. And it was, it’s just kind of fun to see it’s a different dynamic, but it can still be fun and special in its own way.



I look at the, can you tell that I am, uh, do not disturbing? Are 



Missy: I just breads? I realized that I had forgotten 



Susanne: to do not disturb. If y’all listen to tipsy. ellipses a couple of months ago we had our texts. Ladies as the guests never fails. As soon as we start recording, it’s like, Bing, Bing, Bing, Bing, Bing.



Um, I don’t know what they’re talking about, but it’s well, I ran into Leigh Ann 



Missy: at our football game, Susanne. She’s 



Susanne: telling him you ready? 



Missy: So, yeah. And we took a picture and I posted it. So that may be is what it is, 



Susanne: but that was fun now. And I am Susanne Kerns. I’m a mom and.dot dot. LGBTQ advocate, a writer.



And tonight I’m a little tipsy. 



Missy: I’m not even tipsy yet. And I just could barely do my intro. I don’t 



Susanne: know. I’m just [00:03:00] tired. I know it’s candy. I got the sugar buzz. But like we said, we have a guest tonight. We have Cindy Whitesides, who I’m so excited. Y’all probably heard me talk about Cindy before. Cause she is a mom and.dot.life coach and a runner.



And she is the friend who I talk about, who got me to try stand up. So, I mean, talk about a good life coach getting me to do that. She can, she can work you through anything. If she can give you that. I was kind of scared for you 



Missy: since you were not 



Susanne: really a swimmer. No, I wear my life jacket. Didn’t I say? I sweat, oh my God.



Talk about what it was like 95 degrees that I had a life jacket on. Like everybody else. Yeah, just me and the eight year olds out there. But so Cindy is like we said, a life coach and helps women, including me imagine and create the truest versions of their lives. [00:04:00] And she likes to go deep and identify the patterns, themes and stories in our lives that are keeping us stuck, which is such a huge topic for us talking about getting on stuck.



And some of this, it was kind of fun reading Cindy’s bio cause some of this I didn’t know about her. So I’m learning a bit. I read too. So you’re a graduate of Texas, a and M university, and also has a master’s degree from Colorado state university. She’s a smarty pants and has had a really interesting variety of teaching and counseling roles.



And what I have known her primarily as a small business owner who co-founded and runs a medical practice with her husband. So that has been, it’s been talking about some pivots. So, whereas yeah, so the expertise was primarily in teaching and counseling roles, but was basically running a business, a medical practice, which.



That’s it interesting [00:05:00] stepping out of your rules, but before we dive too much into that though, twin boys who are 10 a bonus daughter, who’s 23, who we just adore she’s she worked in the medical practice. 



Cindy: She does. She’s got it. She’s our best medical assistant. 



Susanne: She is. And she was the medical assistant for my daughter a couple of weeks ago.



In fact, um, and Cindy, I CA I knew you were an avid runner, but six marathons and 12 half marathons. Wow. 



Cindy: Yeah, I did count. I wasn’t sure. 



Susanne: Um, I 



Missy: got one full and two half, and I feel like that’s more than enough. I’m just not cut out for 



Susanne: running. I am just starting the training for another half with my daughter.



And every single time, it feels like it’s impossible and that I’ll never even be able to make it mile, but I. I’ve been here enough times before that I know that somehow it happens, which is kind of a nice little [00:06:00] metaphor for life coaching as well. I mean, 



Cindy: it is for sure, for sure. Cause marathoning it half marathon, whatever it is, you don’t start out running 13 miles, 20 miles, 26.



You don’t do that. And I’ve heard you talk about your training. You start out with 10 minutes, work up to 20, you do the run walking, you do, you know, it’s, it’s little pivots that add up over time and that’s what gets you there. It’s a beautiful kind of floor for all kinds of changes in our life. 



Susanne: Yeah, it is.



And it also is kind of a metaphor for I’ve always, and I’ve been warning my daughter about this and like, if you take too much time off, like if you see if you think that, oh cool, I’m up to 10 miles. I got this. I mean, I’m a runner. You take a week off. And it’s almost like starting from scratch again. And so I’ve, I kind of feel like that is a similar thing to where we get kind of cocky and we think, oh, we got this figured out.



It’s fine. Kind of like my son who was always like, I don’t need to [00:07:00] keep taking my allergy medicine. Cause I feel good. I’m like, no, no good. But it is an 



Missy: incredible metaphor 



Susanne: for life. It is. You just have to keep plugging along and it just makes you so dang tired. 



Cindy: I think, I think there’s a, there’s a mantra and running that is consistency is more important than volume and that’s always stuck with me.



It’s like, it’s still it’s the all or nothing thinking that we talk about all the time where, you know, if I can’t, if I can’t do the 10, I shouldn’t do anything if I can’t do whatever’s on that plan. And, and just tonight I had, I was supposed to have had a five mile run. My day got all 



Susanne: off the, off the whack, like just, you know, and I’m watching 



Cindy: the clock and I got it kind of be with, and Missy later and I didn’t want to miss it.



And, and I just, I had that mantra in my head. So I went out for two miles and two miles and the scope of what I’m doing this week. Isn’t that much, it’s not a big deal, but it’s that consistency day in day out two miles is better than [00:08:00] zero miles. And so, yeah, there’s the 



Susanne: metaphor. Oh, oh good. Cause we do that with writing all the time.



Don’t we miss this where we think it’s all or nothing. Like if I can’t sit down in a cabin by a Creek for 10 hours straight, then it just doesn’t even count as writing. Whereas now it’s writing a page here and there while you’re in the car and the pickup line, or while you’re waiting at a doc doctor’s office or, you know, or whatever the case may be.



So I love that you did that. Yay. That’s an inspiration. Okay. 



Missy: The muscles like our brain is just like that. You just keep those muscles working and don’t let them forget how. 



Susanne: Okay now, thank you. Speaking of inspiration. So you have kind of been my informal life coach even before you, even before you decided to formally become a coach.



and I’m just, I’m so thrilled just because I just feel from the day I met you, like, this is what you should be [00:09:00] doing. Um, so I’m just really curious. So like, that takes a lot of courage too. I mean, I watched it from the background, the decisions that went into it, but can you kind of talk about like what went into that decision to go and become a certified coach and what are even the choices available for people who are maybe thinking about it themselves and don’t even know where to start 



Cindy: Yeah. It’s been a journey and a journey. Honestly, you know, you said since we’ve known each other, it’s been a journey on, on my website. I actually point all the way back to third grade. Um, I had had this experience, that story, oh my gosh. It it’s surprising to me that this has stuck with me. Like I don’t have a lot of, clear memories of third grade, but there was a kid in my class who was, parents were going through a divorce and I was sitting next to him one day and he started kind of spilling his guts about it and just how much it sucked and when he was going through.



And, um, I had been through [00:10:00] some similar stuff and I just, I just, you know, no training as an eight year old 



Susanne: stratified at this point, I was not certified. I was, uh, 



Cindy: and, and, you know, later on that day, he comes up to me on the playground and he’s like, you know, Cindy, I mean, it’s just, it’s a funny thing for a kid conversation to say, but he just said, Brian, Cindy, you’re really easy to talk to you.



Thanks. And I just remember being like. Oh, it just, it felt like the most natural thing in the world to me. So, so Susanne, as you mentioned, um, when I look at my career trajectory, there’s all these kinds of parts that seem a little disparate. Like I was teaching outdoor education and I worked as a counselor for a treatment center for teenagers with drug problems.



And I worked with college students who had been in violation of university policies. And when I started to piece together during, you know, some of my dot, dot dot searching, um, it was like, what, where are the threads in this? And it has to do with, , listening and, being with a person, you know, if there’s some difficult stuff and I’ve [00:11:00] always been really comfortable with that, I’ve had a really high tolerance for that.



Like somebody can tell me big stories and big stuff and I can be there with them. And then also. I’ve had people say, like, how do you hear all this stuff? And then walk away, go on with your life. And, um, I can, I can do both. And so, , yeah, so I’ve been running this medical practice for about eight years.



, and that has been a huge, that was a huge pivot, , out of, , a couple year break when my boys were born, I stayed home with them for almost three years. So definitely relate to a lot of which I’ll talk about on this podcast of like you step out on one career and then. Now, all you’re doing is wiping butts and wiping counters and Weinberg that’s right.



Professional wiper. 



Susanne: I’ve heard you say that



Cindy: you might need something wiped. So, um, so I’ve been doing that and, , certainly have gained incredible skills from that. But even in that role, when I was working in the office, , I don’t, I don’t do that directly anymore, but when I did, you know, I remember working with staff and it’s like, I cared a lot less about the performance, then a staff member who was going [00:12:00] through a big life transition or somebody who was sorting out a relationship problem.



And so what my office kind of looked like was a little coaching room. That’s 



Susanne: when 



Cindy: I worked. Um, so there’s been a thread of it forever. , and that’s, that’s kind of when I started looking for my next move, this. 



Susanne: It’s so exciting. So now, okay. So where, where does one start? When one is trying to decide if they want to be a coach, but then if they just say yes, for sure.



I do want to be a coach. I’m assuming that there’s all kinds of different certification programs based on what area you want to focus on. I’m assuming that I have zero idea. I mean, I know what you were focusing on, but I don’t know the wide variety. Yeah, you’ve done it. 



Cindy: Um, it honestly, and I say this with all respect.



, but some people refer to the coaching industry as the kind of unregulated wild west. And it, it is in some ways it is a largely unregulated industry. , I’m a coach who could be a coach. [00:13:00] We’re all coaches like there’s, there’s no legal, container to, to be able to call yourself a coach. It, it doesn’t exist.



, and there’s pros and cons to that, right? Like, so, you know, anyone can be a coach. And so the barrier to entry can be a little bit low. , so somebody who really has a passion for this and wants to do it, they can get in. Okay. And it also means that the quality can vary widely with the amount of training someone has and their experience and what kind of certifications they’ve gone through.



But there is an international organization called the international coaching Federation or ICF. , and they are the largest organization of coaches. It’s a nonprofit group that works to set standards and accreditation.



, the program that I just finished becoming certified through, , is an ICF accredited program. So that’s, that’s a place to start in terms of standards is looking for an ICF accredited program because that means it’s met some basic standards about how much training you’ve had, how many hours you’ve been coaching, , you know, ethical standards.



It’s, it’s [00:14:00] the only organization that you can belong to as a member that enforces ethical standards for coaches. So if I’m a coach and I violate your confidentiality and. Member you can logically complaint with the ICF and that’s important from a regulation standpoint, from a safety standpoint. Yeah. So that’s a good place to start is ICF.



They accredited date, correct. Credit eight credit eight. That’s what we’re going for various coaching programs, um, at different levels. And so you can take these training programs. So programs where I see at the credits and some aren’t. Um, yeah. And so that’s kinda what the, what the process looks like. You go through one of those programs, you get certified there, and then if you want to go on for an ICF accreditation, that’s a separate process than your training process.



And so, so you talked about styles, you know, there’s, there’s, uh, different coaching styles. There’s different places that focus on relationships or money coaching or career coaching or whatever. So really, you know, the sky’s the limit. I mean, people, people do. I mean, sexuality work [00:15:00] people do you know?



Um, I have a friend who’s an ADHD executive function coach for teenagers. In college kids like, wow, that’s fascinating. I have a friend who’s a body image coach. Like, you know, the range is really wide. 



Missy: So how did you pick the program you chose? 



Cindy: So, um, that’s a great question. Um, the whole time I just went through, it was called the courageous living coach certification program.



And the director of the program Kate Swoboda, has been a coach since the mid two thousands or something. She’s been around a while. And, um, I’ve been on our mailing list. I don’t know how I got on her mailing list originally, but, , I’ve been following her for a long time and she, I just, I liked her vibe.



I liked, , her approach is all about kind of a forward-leaning positive approach to courage, encourages a habit, right? Like that, all of the things we talk about about changing our lives or improving, or, reaching a goal, whatever, like it kind of starts with courage, you know, the courage to Nate.



What’s your, after the courage to tell the truth to yourself, the courage to show up for your habits every day. and so it was an [00:16:00] ICF accredited program and that’s something that I knew was important to me. Um, especially people who might work in corporate coaching. So that’s something that’s trending in the world of coaching is corporations actually hiring in-house coaches.



So you’re just a staff 



Susanne: coach, right? 



Cindy: That’s right. That’s right. 



Susanne: That’s right. That’s my frame of reference. She’s an actual licensed psychologist, but same.



Cindy: Yeah. So if you want to do that kind of work, definitely being an ICF accredited coach would be the first step because corporate world, they’re looking for, like, you need to have some certification and that’s yeah. That’s kind of the one they’d be 



Susanne: looking at. Now, how long does that all take them?



Is it, is it a set your own pace based on, you know, if someone is full-time working another job and they’re trying to, you know, make little small bites towards it, or is it something that if you were full in for, you know, six months, you could just nail it out real fast? Like how does that work 



Cindy: again? I can’t [00:17:00] speak to all programs.



My program was a set duration of 10 months. So we started last January. We finished up this and we’re starting to push out, , graduation announcements this month. Which is fine. Follow the courageous living coach certification page. I’ll be on their students having passed my certification. So ours was 10 months.



Um, the, the folks in my program, , I was working full-time and, you know, balancing that and doing the mom thing at the same time, lots of books where, , and there’s also people who were in transition. Some people who’ve been laid off and I’m like, this is what I’m going to do. Um, and so that was kind of full-time they kind of dove into it and made it their full-time job, , and variations in between your people who do part-time stuff.



People who add jobs when the program started and then got laid off during things and exchanged. And so 10 months is a long time to go through a cohort together. , so the, these, these women that I went into the program together and mean, we are just, we’ve been through a lot of life together and shared a lot of stuff.



So it’s, it’s a special thing to get, to go through a program like that. 



Susanne: Yeah, get into, I mean, [00:18:00] coach and be coached by a group. I mean, that’s a real intimate setting and yeah. That’s what, how big was that group that you were with, or your particular group of women that you were with? 



Cindy: There was about 25 of us in this program.



Yeah. 



Susanne: And 



Missy: did you ever do any, it, was it in person or was 



Cindy: it all designed to have an in-person component, but with the, pandemic we got kind of. Yeah. So we, our kickoff retreat was supposed to be in person and that became virtual last January. And then we were going to have a make-up retreat. Remember, remember in the summer when like everything was opening up and move this kind of people 



Susanne: glorious, clean, 



Cindy: they scheduled the like end of program retreat, which was a new thing.



We were going to do that in September and then Delta hit. And then, so there is currently talk of a, uh, uh, a class of 20, 21 reunion in the spring of 22. It was in the pandemic world. We all stopped planning so 



Susanne: far ahead. Oh, no kidding. So there are these people then from all around the country then [00:19:00] international actually.



Oh 



Cindy: yeah. I have a classmate, , in the UK. I have several classmates in Canada. I think, think that’s it. I hope I’m not leaving anybody out, but yeah. Yeah, it was fast. I mean, just people from all different walks of life, all different ages. I mean, everyone from people in their early twenties to some classmates in there.



It was, it was fascinating. 



Susanne: It was really cool. How interesting to get so many different perspectives when you’re all talking about a particular subject, it’s just, yeah. It’s all different frame of references. 



Missy: So cool. So now I have another friend who’s gone through a similar process and she had to have like, um, Guinea pigs for lack of a better word, but she had that people go through coaching with her as almost, I can’t think of the word that I’m using, but it’s like, you’re not fully certified yet, but you’re, you have to get hours 



Cindy: of certified trainer training.



You have to launch so many hours as a coach. Like, so you’re doing that now. I am doing, I am doing that. I have about 70 hours under my [00:20:00] belt. I needed 60 for this program. So, so 60 to finish my program, I’ve got about 70 now and I need a hundred to get to the ICF, uh, to jump through that set of hoops.



And then there’s an exam process and some mentoring I have to do and some other stuff, but yeah, so I’m still, I’m still doing some work with some of my cohort. I’ve got a couple of clients I work with. , and, , I’m looking for folks. I mean, right now I’m in the phase of just really kind of coaching anybody.



I haven’t really gotten to the place of like, I coach this type of woman on this type of issue. Like I’ve coached people on everything from relationships to substance abuse, to, you know, career stuff, somebody today I was coaching and we were talking about like, you know, making peace with forgiveness and, and some stuff that had happened and really kind of exploring her relationship with that.



So, I mean, I’m always kind of just humbled and awestruck that the tools of coaching and the process of two people coming together. And the [00:21:00] alchemy of that, like two people coming together to focus on one person. Right. Like, and , to just ask questions and kind of walk a trail together and, um, you know, un-peel layers, coaching is a subtractive process.



It’s, we’re, we’re moving stuff out of the way that’s that’s between you and your path, your path, whatever that is. Yeah. 



Missy: Yeah. I love that. 



Susanne: I know. 



Cindy: Well, in a world where we all have too much stuff to do, right. Like hygiene is not about like, let’s take your ass and let’s do this and let’s set some big goals and whatever.



It’s more like, how do we peel away? What’s not you, like, how do we, how do we really look at, get down to the core? Like what matters? And once you have that alignment, things get easier. And we live in a culture that is. It’s like slap a new routine on and try this and go to the general or, and like, I mean, , who do you know that isn’t breaking under the way that the schedules right now?



Nobody. Yeah, 



Susanne: exactly. So now you a 



Missy: culture of I’m sorry, we always do that. That’s okay. I was just saying we are a culture of excess and [00:22:00] ad-ons the idea of taking away is sort of scary. I think to people, when you start talking about like, what can you let go? We interviewed someone this week and the episodes upcoming, but without giving spoilers, one of the things she talked to us about was it’s in the far the stuff you don’t have to do.



And it’s hard women especially were like, well, there’s nothing I have to do all the false, that’s a falsehood, but getting people to that point to see it is tough. 



Cindy: Well, and that’s something we talked about in the intro is the stories we tell ourselves, right? Like, and really just having, having a coach near you to say, is that true?



Is that true? You can’t let that go. Like let’s, let’s, let’s kick that around in a really supportive, empathetic, like container, but to say , let’s check that out. Let’s keep that around a little bit. Let’s kick the tires and see, is that really true? What if let’s imagine let’s do it. Let’s do some imagining what would happen and, and yeah, that’s, that’s usually our egos, you know, trying to hold on to like, yeah, but I’m important and I’m, I’m giving you my [00:23:00] community and I’m this kind of mom, I’m this kind of worker I’m this counted whatever.



And, and the fear is if I let that go, who are we going to be? 



Susanne: Yes. Woo. That should be our tagline. That’s our tagline. My goodness, man. You see why? I mean, when I come back from coffee with Cindy, it’s like, I got some stuff to think through



some tough questions



now. Okay. Now this is, this is kind of separate from coaching, but , we kind of alluded to it when we were talking about Ted lasso and the difference between the coach and someone who is a psychologist or therapy or whatever. And so if this is out of your wheelhouse or just not anything that you feel comfortable talking about, just let me know.



But I am curious for people who are trying to do. Do I need a coach or do I need to go to therapy? Like, is [00:24:00] there, you know, kind of some boxes they should check off to decide one versus the other. 



Cindy: I know. Um, no, this is absolutely as part of coach training, any good program should be helping the trainees understand where those lines are and where those boundaries are.



Um, so that, yeah, that’s super 



Susanne: important. And, 



Cindy: my take on it is that, you know, coaching and therapy they’re in the same wheelhouse, right? Like it’s all about talking with, it looks a lot the same, right? Like it’s two people having an intimate conversation, right? Like at the end of the day, , there’s a lot of things in common.



, there’s some bright line differences that we can talk about things like. Um, you know, mental illness, right? If somebody has an active diagnosis, if somebody is actively struggling with depression, anxiety, eating disorders, , things that would qualify in the DSM as actual, , diagnoses that are actively hurting or impacting your quality of life, you should probably be hanging out with a therapist, right?



Like that’s, that’s that. So, [00:25:00] you know, you’re dealing with mental illness and, what else, you know, things like trauma, right? Like coaches, coaches should probably stay away from trauma. And when you look at the ethical standards of the ICF, it, it is pretty clear about that. Right. We start talking about really going deep with, trauma issues.



That’s, that’s, that’s out of the live house of, of where a coach should be hanging out. Um, I think when you think about coaching, you can think about it in some ways as kind of a pure profession. , to therapy, right? So you have care professional teachers, you’re a paraprofessional, , medical staff, , not everyone who goes to therapy is struggling with a real active diagnosis.



A lot of folks who go to therapy have a diagnosis that’s kind of in the, in the therapy world is known as, um, adjustment disorder. , and not that it’s a throw away diagnosis, but it’s kind of the one when somebody is in therapy and adjustment disorder just kind of looks at like regular people dealing with regular people problems, right?



You’re adjusting to your role as a mom, you’re adjusting to a divorce, you’re adjusting to a new job and you’re having a hard time. Right. And that, so someone who’s kind of in that camp, , [00:26:00] who is, , not struggling with mental health issues, somebody who’s dealing with regular life problems and they, you know, they feel stuck.



They feel frustrated. They feel like they’re not sure what their next step should be. You know, do I stay in the relationship? Do I leave? , things feel kind of not depressed, but maybe things still kind of. You know, and I’m looking like, I remember a time when my life felt more colorful than this what’s what’s going on.



that would be stuff that would be good for coach. So I kind of think about it as like Venn diagrams, right? Like you’ve got two circles, you’ve got, you know, the, the therapy circle and the coaching circle. The truth is a lot of folks could do well in either. Right? Yeah. Does that help? Is 



Susanne: that kind of yeah.



Was a lot, yeah. Do people 



Missy: do them at the same time a lot or is it one of those things like you should probably go do your therapy and then enter a coaching or can they work together? 



Cindy: That’s a great question. before I did this program, I wasn’t really familiar with that, but actually I’ve seen, in my program, I’ve seen a lot of people do that successfully together.



So somebody who maybe has some [00:27:00] traumatic stuff from their childhood, right. That they want to be dealing with, or, you know, a mood disorder or some stuff, maybe they’re on some medication or whatever, but they’re actively working with a therapist. It’s going well, and they’re interested in coaching to kind of explore more specific, uh, career decision or, I mean, whatever money coaching can, can really be about anything, but yeah, they absolutely can work hand in hand and there’s some best practices with, , you know, a therapist and a coach possibly they’re having communication and consent required to have that thing.



So yeah, that actually isn’t as uncommon as you might think. And there are people who I coach who also have a therapist and, you know, kind of with a therapist, they, they kind of focus on a different set of things. And then in coaching, we do well. We do so. 



Missy: Yeah. I know personally when I went through some coaching, it unlocked some stuff that I did not realize was there and required some therapy.



Cindy: The coach helped you get there help you kind of go. 



Missy: Yeah. Some of the questions she was asking, they [00:28:00] were helping me get unstuck at a certain point in my life. And really it was around My physical health had suffered because my mental health had kind of been for awhile and she was she’s an athlete.



And she was helping me get back and find some of that. And in the process of asking questions about my limiting beliefs, like, what was it that was stopping me, I kind of went back and thought, I need to go deeper on some of these things. I, my limiting beliefs, don’t just extend to my ability to do squats or run a mile.



Like there’s more there. And so I had already had a relationship with a therapist, but I scheduled an appointment to go back and see her and dive into some other stuff because of some of the things that came up in our coaching session. And my, the woman who was coaching me said, I am not a therapist.



Like I am not qualified to offer you therapy. That’s not what we’re here 



Susanne: for. 



Cindy: Good for her. She did a good job. 



Susanne: Yeah. And we had, 



Missy: [00:29:00] because we had a friend relationship. She’s like, I’d love to dive in this with you. Like, I really would love to talk with you, but that’s not what we’re doing here. And if you have a therapist that’s good there.



Cindy: Yeah. That would be better suited for there, man. That’s, that’s a cool experience , and not surprising at all. Like how, how beautiful that these things were showing up, you know, showed up in your body, your mental health, and then , you started peeling back the layers and then like, oh look, we have more here than we thought.



Like, 



Susanne: yeah, you can take somebody to 



Missy: ask the right questions. And sometimes you can’t ask yourself those questions for whatever reason, like they’re in you somewhere, but you can’t muster up the gumption and be like, here’s what I really need to ask myself and having a coach to sit across from you and say, well, Yeah.



Well, 



Susanne: why 



Missy: that let’s go to the next step 



Susanne: and not let you cheat out of the question either.



Cindy: Yeah. There’s this concept of the compassionate [00:30:00] witness, right? Like the compassion having another, another heart, another mind, looking at a situation. And so what’s funny is this happens all the time when coaches are coaching other coaches, um, you know, and sometimes I’ll have a fellow coach ask me a question that just as soon as they say it, it’s just so flipping obvious, like, oh, right, right.



Like, and you know, why didn’t I see that? Right. I have the same set of tools that you do to ask these same questions , to be curious in the same ways. And , they can see something that I can’t see. So that’s incredibly human , to say like, yeah, why didn’t I, why couldn’t I just. So if coach my way through that coaching is a co-created process.



It’s a process of, and that intimacy and again, that , two energies coming together and saying, we’re going to go into your animal for a little bit. Let’s let’s go, let’s go kick the ball around there and see what happens. Yeah. It’s kind of beautiful. 



Missy: And another, person’s not, doesn’t always have that fear.



There’s that level of fear to all of us. We’re like, if I ask the question and 



Susanne: I have to answer it [00:31:00] and I might 



Missy: not like the answer almost guaranteed in my case, I almost never liked the answer 



Cindy: and they don’t have their stories. Yeah. They don’t have your they’re your beliefs. They don’t have your stories.



So they say, what, what, you know, , there’s a coaching technique called the five whys. Right. And we go, okay, why is that? And the answer him. Okay. Why is that? And we keep going and you get down and it’s like, oftentimes it comes down to like, I’m going to be alone. I’m going to be a bag lady.



I’m going to. You know, I’m going to, I’m going to be destroyed. I’ll be I’ll die. Right. We get down to the fifth. Why, why is that a problem? Why is that bothering you and you dead down? It’s like, ultimately what we’re starting to talk about. Like some really core issues as humans feeling afraid of, if I don’t have these things, who am I all die?



And you know, and once you can, can wrap your arms around that and you go, oh, is that true? Am I going to actually die? And when you start backing it up and go, oh, I could make a different decision here. I wouldn’t die. Like I might have to change something. I might have to, re-examine something I might have to set a boundary in my life.



I might have to [00:32:00] whatever, but , it’s not going to be the end of the world. 



Missy: I’d be hard. 



Susanne: Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. But, okay. So now one of the things that we’re hoping to encourage people, we are coming around to the new year’s, which I can’t even believe that I’m saying that. I mean, it’s, it’s November, but you know, I want to at least get that seed in people’s head.



So as they do get closer to the new year’s resolutions and all this kind of stuff is usually is stuff that people do for like two weeks and then they’re done with it. Um, and I do really think after a year of interviewing coaches, that there’s so much benefit, even for, we had our, one of our way back when conversations with, with KJ Del Antonia and it wasn’t life coaching, but it was book coaching.



She was the editor, the New York times, well family page, she had written a book. It was a [00:33:00] non-fiction book. , and she needed a coach to help her through the fiction. One need quote, unquote, but she benefited greatly from having a coach to help her with that. And I just, that just meant so much to me again, from the writer’s world, um, even pros can benefit from a coach.



Like you were saying, you being coached by other coaches, they can still find something that maybe you weren’t able to find for yourself as a professional coach. So we are just trying to, I don’t know if there’s a stigma attached to it, or sometimes as women, we don’t think that we’re worth it because there is a price tag associated with that.



. So we’re trying to kick all that to the side and get people through as many. As many excuses as we can get people to not be looking for the help of a coach. And one of the things that I really believe strongly is that some of the most simple things can be really intimidating.



[00:34:00] Like when I used to try to get people to go to the school board meetings, just even telling people here, you know, here’s a picture of the parking lot. Here’s the area where you will park. This is the building you will go to when you get there. I can get my husband. 



Missy: If that’s the information he needs, he wants to know where we’re going to park exactly how it’s going to.



Susanne: Yes, who the host 



Missy: is at the restaurant would 



Cindy: help him a lot. Like he really wants 



Missy: to go. 



Susanne: We talked about this with Cindy and my standup paddle boarding. I mean, talk about the universe telling you that it’s time to do something the week before Cindy even reached out of the blue, it was like, Hey, want to go stand up, paddle boarding.



This isn’t something that we had been talking about. I haven’t 



Cindy: had any for you to be like, what are you talking about now? 



Susanne: It was so weird because my daughter, Zoe and I had been talking about it for months leading up to that. And I finally got to the point where like, I’m [00:35:00] stalling enough, Zoe’s going to think I’m crazy.



Like, why haven’t we signed up to do this? And it was seriously the point of like, I’m going to put myself in the position. I’m going to act as if I am a standup paddle boarder. What would be the first thing that I do? I would probably have to park my car. So it was just, it was literally the act of like, where would one park, if one was going to go stand up, paddle boarding.



Okay. Okay. I parked so I can do that. And so I do think that there are people, there are, hopefully there are others like me, and I’m not the only one who feels this way, but so let’s pretend instead of stand up paddle boarding, it is going to see a coach. So what are those things? You know, what is the equivalent of finding the parking space to go to be with a coach?



Like, so I’m assuming someone starts by going to your website and reaching out , what would be the proper thing for someone to say, who feels like they’re already , just asking the coach wrong. Like they need to give you a 10 [00:36:00] page, you know, breakdown of what they think their problem is or do they just need to be, hi, my name is Susanne.



What is your availability? Like, 



Cindy: can I, can I give you, I have two thoughts about the backup, just a second, about this? Like who needs a coach? And like the stigma is. and the first one is kind of from an athletic point of view, like we’re all familiar with the idea that the best basketball players in the world have a coach, the soccer players on Ted lasso had Ted lasso.



Um, you know, the gymnast have a coach. You know, we’re all used to the idea that in athletics, there’s a coach. I, you know, I’ve been a runner since, I don’t know middle school, no school. I’ve been a runner, um, in some form or fashion, mostly recreational, mostly slow. And I, and I have a coach here, uh, here in Austin.



I’m part of a running group and I, and I pay a coach and, you know, do I know the basic workouts that we do? I do. Do I know how much mileage I need to run to run and half I do. I know [00:37:00] all that stuff. And does having a coach there to guide you. To keep me on track to ask questions when, um, you know, I’ve got a race coming up this weekend and we had a workout tomorrow morning and I’m like, Hey, do you want me to do this one?



Or this one? Like, which one would be better for me? And I can bounce it off of him. And he, he keeps his eye on the big picture while I’m stuck in traffic. And that’s what I think a coach is about. So from an athletic point of view, that coach keeps the keeps the high level view while you’re driving through town.



And the coach is like, you know what, you’re good hanging in there in about five minutes. You’re going to be a clear, it’s good. It’s good. You know, like a coach didn’t have that perspective. So from an athletic point of view, I think that’s a really lovely way to think about de-stigmatizing coaching, right?



Like all kinds of high-performing people at coaching executives, hire coaches all the time, vice presidents, all those kinds of people have coaches. So there’s that. And then the other thing that kind of came to my mind about coaching that I wanted to bring up. There’s a deeply feminine tradition around coaching, the kind of feminine wisdom that in a more tribal society, right?



A more [00:38:00] intact society where we’re not all alone in our little boxes alone with our little wipeys, I’m doing this mothering thing where, where there would be that kind of coaching energy, right? Like the elder women in the tribe would be there to, to go ask those questions to say, God, what’s important to me here.



What should we be thinking about? I had this decision to make, and I felt really torn about it. Like, what does that look like? Or I’m totally overwhelmed. Right? There was, there was that wisdom, collective that that would exist in it’s a very feminine kind of thing of people coming together. And one of, one of my coaches said to me, one time, you know, And other times, you know, I would just be like your cool wise aunt and like you would bring me a chicken.



Yes. Yeah. It’s like, it’s kind of like how created we’re in this together where we’re all the same. Your coach is not a group or your coach doesn’t have all the answers. They’re just somebody who maybe sits in a place of non-judgment and can ask good questions. Right? Like who might [00:39:00] have some wisdom having walked that trail before.



Right. And so just two different ways of thinking about it, about why everyone needs to everybody, everybody can benefit from this. This is just really about like, , finding more of who you are and affirming that and moving forward in life in a way that feels good. So, so there’s that. So how do you get started?



What does that look like? You know, again, every coach is kind of different. There are coaches you have to apply to work with and there’s, you know, things you go through. , most coaches, what it looks like is some variation of you make contact with them, whether that’s on their website, shoot them email. Um, most coaches offer some form of, uh, what’s not as a discovery call an intro call, usually complimentary 15 to 30 minutes or so where we just get to know each other, we kind of, you know, what’s going on with.



Martha Beck is a well-known coach and she has a question of like, so what’s sells



Missy: yes. Almost bit my [00:40:00] bourbon a little bit. I love that whatever is broken in me, like love starting with a Woodstock 



Susanne: look, listen, learn. Instead of look, listen, learn. We’re just gonna be like, okay, what’s stuck. Yes. 



Cindy: That’s where we started. I mean, again, coaching is kind of a, a strengths-based approach. you may be rocking your workout routine and that’s great.



You don’t need to talk about that with me. Like what’s sucking is your career or kind of feeling stuck is your, like, whatever it is, like, that’s where we need to go. We don’t need it. Like, you know, I mean, I’ll cheer you on. I’m glad to hear things are going well, but like we come together to like improve what’s sucking.



Right? So, so the discovery call kind of looks like that. What sucks what’s going on? What’s your situation? What are you looking for? Um, there are in coaching. Sometimes we talk about kind of a primary focus of like, in the course of X amount of time, three, six months, something like that. Where do you want to be?



Well, I want to, I want to feel not stuck in this career. I want to make a decision about staying in my marriage or not. I want to, uh, I want to not feel so overwhelmed and [00:41:00] stressed all the time. Right? Like that’s kind of a primary focus. And then on any given session, we kind of have a focus that for that day, right?



Like, so, so what’s going on related to that, that today is going to have. Peel that onion a little bit, like where are we going towards you’re working on overwhelm, right? Like overwhelm is your thing. Okay. What’s going on for you around that this week and what can we do to move the ball down the field just a little bit in this session?



So, yeah, so it’s really a pretty organic process. It’s, um, some coaches work on packages, Where you buy, you know, three months, six months, one month, whatever, you know, packages and you pay up front some coaches are more session by session or month by month. you just want to get to know the coach and really look at what does their social media look like?



What does their writing look like? You know, I’ve heard them on podcasts. Like, do you vibe with their way of being in the world? Right? Cause it’s, it’s pretty intimate. Like you, you need to have that chemistry and that energy together. 



Susanne: Yeah, I’m guessing there’s a lot of gut, a gut feel , just listen to yourself and be like, does this feel right?[00:42:00] 



Right. When 



Missy: you meet somebody out in the world, you’re like, we’re going to be friends. Like I was just telling Cindy before we started, when Susanne and I met, we roomed at a conference and it was like, we’re going to be all right. Like, we’re 



Susanne: going to make it, we’re going 



Missy: to be friends. We can room together.



This is good. You have a gut feel. And I think it’s the same with, it’s the same with, if you, you go to a doctor and you’re like, I didn’t like their bedside manner, you know? So if you vibing with that coach, then listen to yourself. Or if you’re not listen to 



Susanne: yourself. Yeah. 



Cindy: There’s also styles of what you’re looking for. So there are folks who really put themselves out there as 



Missy: kind of an accountability coach, kind of a I’m 



Cindy: here to help you make change and kick your butt. And I’m like, we’re going to, I’m going to hold you accountable. And that kind of thing.



If somebody really was looking for that type of coaching, they would be a terrible fit for me because I’m a lot more interested in like, who are you in the world? Like, how do you move in? Like, what’s your state of being, what’s your state of your relationship to yourself right in this [00:43:00] quiet moment. Are you at peace?



Like, are we like that kind of stuff? And so if somebody wants kinda kick my ass, I’m gonna go take on the world coach. Like, there are a lot of coaches who would love to do that. I’m not going to be a good fit for that person. Right. So really like check out what somebody says about themselves on their website and believe them.



Right. Like, 



Susanne: yeah. Yeah. 



Missy: I figure out kind of what you want out of the process. 



Susanne: Yeah. Is there like a check? I’m sure you could just Google it like a checklist of questions to ask a coach or to ask yourself about your interaction with that coach to see if they’re going to be a good fit. People should probably use that when going out on dates as well, and just interacting with other humans.



Cindy: That’s so sexy. All right. 



Susanne: That’s why I don’t go out on dates. Well, that on you’re married. I dunno.



Cindy: That’s great. Um, I don’t, I don’t know of a formal checklist, but what Missy, what you just said. I think that’s, that’s the best advice I would [00:44:00] give is. Which also would apply on a date is the question of kind of, how did you feel while you were talking to that person? Did you feel more like yourself? Did you feel heard?



did you feel like the questions kind of resonated? Like those are the questions you need to hear, even if they were a little hard to hear, you know, like there’s kind of a gut check of like, did, did I feel like myself with this person? Cause yeah, you’re going to be doing a lot of big work with them. So, um, yeah.



That’s, that’s important. I don’t know of any checklists, but yeah. Maybe somebody should 



Susanne: write one. I don’t know. Hey, I think you just did. Those are, I mean, those are just a few questions I think would be really good. Yeah. My first blog post, once I start, 



Missy: there you go. I think I was in my forties before it really realized it was okay to not feel that vibe and connection with anyone.



I considered a professional. So if I’d gone to, like, for example, I went to a therapist for a while. I had some wonderful qualities and she helped me with [00:45:00] a, like a big moment in my life that I needed to get past. But we reached a point where I realized she was not asking the right questions and she did not get where I was coming from.



And we needed to part ways it was painful for me. 



Susanne: And so I 



Missy: think I’m leading up to a question, although I haven’t quite formulated it yet, but if somebody is not ready to trust their gut, I think something like a checklist is a good idea, I guess. But I think what I’m wondering is say someone gets two or three sessions down the road and you realize you’re just not, do they need to be afraid of saying this isn’t working or is it just it’s okay.



To move on and try the next 



Cindy: coach. So, so two things on that, the first one I’d say is absolutely. Yeah. You know, if it’s not a good fit in the coaching relationship, you’re not going to be able to, to meet the goals, that, that you’re trying to get to. So yeah, absolutely. You need to say that it’s part of knowing yourself and if your God feels bad, , [00:46:00] to give voice to that.



Right. And that, that practice of self-trust that you just talked about, like that’s part of becoming who you are part of becoming an adult. Um, and that’s, that’s a really important step. that being said there, there is, there is an aspect of kind of resistance that can come up as well in coaching. And so the one thing I’d say is you might want to check it out, like, is it.



I’m hitting this, this, because I really like, I kind of have a love, hate relationship with what I’m trying to progress on. Right. Am I really ready to do it? And, and, and also I would say this, if you’re not ready, you’re not ready. Like that’s okay, too. Right. So yeah. I’m one of the coaches that I’ve worked with, , who helped me get started on this path.



She said, you know, I don’t want anybody here who doesn’t want to be here. Like, I would never hold somebody in a, in a package or in a something because I, you know, right. Like, that’s just, it’s kind of at odds with, with coaching. , so with the caveat of checking it out for yourself, is it resistance?



Is it that, um, I’m scared to change it. I’m kind of blaming the coach. [00:47:00] You just wouldn’t want to check that out for yourself. And again, nobody can tell you that, but you, you know, like their wisdom of God, you know, the, the, this isn’t, this isn’t getting me to the place I need to be in the way that it was for awhile.



It reminds me of the first time you find out that you can not like dog. You know, like the chain. Right, right. I totally hear that was like, no, I didn’t jive with them. And I remember somebody said that to me in my thirties. And they were like, well, you can just go to a different doctor. And I was like,



yeah, they’re like, it’s called a second opinion. 



Susanne: Oh yeah. 



Missy: Same. I mean, I was in my forties before. It was like, I don’t like that guy I’m out. It was hard to do. And I still feel like I owe him some explanation. I do not. 



Susanne: I hired a doctor. He was so horrible to me. Like it became almost a joke, like three visits in a row.



And finally, one time I think it was I pregnant or I just had my son and I had a reaction to shrimp and it [00:48:00] was covered in welts, hormonal, a mess I call and like, this is going on. And he was like, oh, well go take some Benadryl and you know, go to bed. he’s like, uh, are you able to breathe?



And I was like, yeah. He’s like, well then you’re okay. And I was just like, no, no. And I was 



Missy: covered in hives. So 



Susanne: like, I, I couldn’t think about it then, but then the next day I just called up the office and I was like, I just need to let you know. that was not cool. It did not appreciate that.



I’m sure that you as a doctor see like things that are a million times worse than this, but as you know, the mom of a newborn who’s covered in hives in hormonal. You need to read the room. Mr.



Cindy: was a drop of empathy 



Susanne: or a drop of courage in the previous three times that he’s the same doctor who in my knee hurt, had me sit down and did the, did the



[00:49:00] and then he’s like, yeah, that’s why your knee hurts. And like,



I, shit, he’s also the one that when I went in, when I was starting to have anxiety attacks, while driving was like, okay, well this is a half hour appointment. And I think your problem is that you need to do immersion therapy. So just go dry for a half hour. And I was like, I have panic attacks when I drive.