"The decisions you're making now, in four, eight or 12 years' time people are going to be benefiting or suffering from - and it won't be you," says Conor O'Shea.

"You have to make the right decisions for you now, for the future, rather than the right decisions for you now, selfishly."

The Director of Performance Rugby at the Rugby Football Union [RFU] is talking about the organisation's efforts to mitigate the disruption caused by the pandemic at levels of the game.

It was just one of the topics on the agenda as the Irishman caught up with co-hosts Matthew Stone, Leaders’ Senior Product Manager, and sports psychologist and consultant Michael Caulfield, whose clients include Brentford FC, Northampton Saints RFC and Hampshire CCC.

Also up for discussion were:

- The communication and provisions around player welfare [8:30];

- How coaches and staff will evolve as the game develops [12:00];

- Setting out the most efficient way to operate in the next phase the return to play [17:30];

- The head coach of the future [23:30].

Michael Caulfield: Twitter | LinkedIn

Matthew Stone: Twitter | LinkedIn

Further listening:

At Home With Leaders - Kevin Abrams

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